Autumn, a game about rape

[Joccaren]

To be fair, I haven't watched the trailer, but the rest of the comments have outlined it for me.

But is sounds like it probably won't work. Depression Quest somehow managed, though I think that was largely a result of how the game was made; Text, and you were given choices. For each choice, something would still go wrong, and despite making all the 'right' or what seemed logical choices, your character would still end up feeling upset. That sense of no matter what you do, its not going to help, and having to take the long path through things to start getting better, is probably why it managed to whilst not have someone experience depression, at least give them some ability to empathise with those who have.

Rape, however, isn't something that simple. You could probably do it better with a text based thing than it sounds like this game is going to do, but honestly if you're going to do rape, I think you need to do the real deal of it. Not as in IRL. Have a normal game. Naturally, it needs to be known for its mature story. Don't advertise it based on rape at all. Have it seem to play 'normally' for whatever type of game you make it. And then have it happen. Preferably have it as a family member or friend the player has gotten close to, and make it confusing and in first person enough that they can't see what's going on, but eventually they can figure it out.
The game would also preferably be pseudo open world, and not have restricting goals and story such that you can say "At this point you get raped". More just you have a need to go to wherever it is you get raped in normal gameplay, and one time that you do it it happens.
I don't know if you could make a good game to tackle the subject, but that's where I'd start from. You can't just say "You were raped, run from the bad guy" and expect people to understand. That just sounds like a really poor taste setup for a horror game. Music is powerful, and a good soundtrack can help express feelings - but putting that into a basically horror/walking simulator isn't a great extension on that. You're better off just using the music by itself. You need to make at least that point of the game about rape, but not make rape a game.

Is it something that needs to be done? I don't really think so, but if people think it does then, well, whatever. Trying to spread empathy isn't something I can condemn. Is the way to do it? I don't think so.

 

[sombrero_joe]

Sounds like it will be a darling of Games Journalists everywhere. 10/10 from both Polygon and Kotaku definitely.

That being said people can make whatever game they want I don't give a shit. I will however notice if I start to see it all over the internet, while other much better indie titles don't see much support short of from the steam community.

I also agree with others in that this is much better told within the context of a greater story. Make the story take place in a dystopian future full of gangs and poverty. The main character who was a victim of a traumatic rape fights both for her mental health and her survival in a chaotic city.

 

[Alatar The Red]

Sounds like it will be yet another one of these extremely linear walking simulators where the game and the developers are trying to make a point.

So due to that and the subject matter the game will obviously be praised by certain sites no matter what the gameplay is like.

I mean it could be interesting and well made but honestly imo the chances are that it'll be a one dimensional walking sim that tries to make people take it seriously by going "look at us, we have sad music and a taboo theme".

Also the trailer with its dark alleyway and a creepy dude running to catch you is already somewhat worrying as far as a game of this subject goes.

 

[b.w.irenicus]

Hmm I myself am not exactly interedted, but I do find it... "strange" (to put it politely) that some people are even quetioning the existence of the game in the first place? Since when do games or art need a justification to exist? people feel the need to make this game, some people will probable be interested in it and play it, that's it, nothing more to it. It has every right to exist as Call od Duty or other games have. Will it be good? Fuck, I don't know and don't care.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Well, this ought to be interesting to watch unfold.

 

[Schadrach]

Another?! Didn't we say all we needed to say with The Path and Depression Quest?
I mean what perspective could this game offer that justifies its creation? What new ideas are they bringing? What, that rape is bad? Somehow I think people figured that out without another pretentious indie game.

Oh I'm sorry, it has Oculus Rift support and a cheap soundtrack! Brilliant! 11/10! If you don't buy it, you're just not smart enough to get it!

This is the Escapist forums, not Kotaku...

As for my take, good for them if it's well done. I, as always, support as many people as possible making any games they want to make about any subject they want to make them about, though I reserve the right to trash any that are poorly made for being poorly made, and to give my wholly subjective opinion of their individual narratives. I'd argue that's the superior path towards greater diversity in gaming, rather than the "you need to tick the following boxes in every game or it's sexist/racist/ponyist/whatever and we're going to call you out for being bigots" approach.

For example, I think Depression Quest is terrible and lacking both skill in execution and artfulness and that Actual Sunlight [http://store.steampowered.com/app/288040/] does a better job with the concept (the reveal regarding the therapist was a nice touch in Actual Sunlight [http://store.steampowered.com/app/288040/]) and Neverending Nightmares [http://store.steampowered.com/app/253330/] covers some adjacent concepts in a mildly more "gamey" fashion, but I'm certainly not going to say Depression Quest shouldn't have been made. It's far from my favorite game with the initials DQ though.

As for the two games I mentioned above, both are fairly short though Neverending Nightmares has multiple endings and does a lot less to make it clear how things are meant to be interpreted. Both were on show at PAX East 2014 (where I first saw them -- Neverending Nightmares was in the Kickstarter room and Actual Sunlight had a fairly nondescript booth in the indie section [like weirdly nondescript to the point where it's nondescript-ness kind of stood out among all the flashing lights and colorful signs]), and I had talked a friend of mine into playing the NN demo with headphones on, and having reached the end he turned to me, took off the headphones and said "Whoever designed this game was a sick fucker." Upon which, the man who had designed the game, having had quietly come up behind him while he was playing and watching intently without being noticed said, "Thank you. I created it to help me deal with my issues", in what was exactly the wrong mix of matter-of-factness and utter calm.

 

[norashepard]

Man idk about this. It's obviously not finished yet.

On the topic of games about rape, I think a REALLY good one was Winter Voices. Man that game did it right. It was all about the aftermath, the mental toll. Annnnnd it was basically ignored by the public at large. Though that was probably because the gameplay was pretty dang hard and also difficult to learn at first. But shit, if I ever see a game get that close again, I'll die happy. It didn't turn the assault into a gameplay mechanic. That's step one to not coming off as a complete asshole.

This game though, while I'm sure it's coming from a place of good intentions, seems a little off base. It appears (right now) to be about the event itself. I'm especially wary because it's a "stranger in a dark alleyway" thing, which is usually not how things go down. Plus, with no words and really no action besides walking around, I'm skeptical this can really say anything beyond "Boy, doesn't this suck? Yikes.". Yeah. Rape sucks! What more do you have to say about it? Being a survivor is about a lot more than what I saw in that vid.

Of course, it's not finished yet, so when it is we can judge for sure.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I really like that aesthetic. I can think of a few game ideas where that could work. I can't read anything on the game itself yet though. It's built on a single premise and seems to have a single gameplay mechanic. How well it does depends entirely on how well it makes it's point, which will be impossible to tell unless you play the game yourself.

On the gameplay vs story argument, I'm a fan of good stories. If the story is good enough, I'll overlook most any bad gameplay.

 

[Smigglebops]

Although I don't believe the game will be in any way successful in achieving its intended goal, I do believe that games like this have a right to exist. Even if it does end up being horribly offensive or unrepresentative of actual victims, I appreciate the fact that the developers tried and if it's all that bad it will most likely crash and burn and the internet can have a field day shitting all over it.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Interesting concept for a game but it doesnt look strike me as very interesting or like it achieves its desired emotionalness judging by the trailer.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I know this is well intentioned, but seriously..

Rape myth acceptance: The game.

Okay. No more glib.

I like the idea of "socially conscious" games. I'm not 100% sure who actually plays them, but as a basic idea it's kind of interesting and I look forward to seeing how this whole trend develops, because I can see that doing a lot of good for gaming as a medium. Anything which opens up the potential for games to tackle more serious issues works for me.

But, I think when you try to make a game with a message, it needs to be a message which is actually useful to someone. That need not be the group or demographic depicted. In fact it almost certainly isn't. Very few rape victims/survivors/whatever will actively purchase or play a game about rape, and that's not to say I don't think there is a market for therapeutic games, but that's a whole other ball game which needs to be handled very carefully and probably with extensive cooperation from professionals working in mental health.

That means the purpose of socially conscious gaming is generally to raise awareness of an issue, or to try and provoke people to think about something which they maybe haven't considered before, and that's great.. but it does create a responsibility to send a message which is actually going to facilitate understanding of that issue, and that means sometimes being willing to actually challenge an audience on its own assumptions or mythology about how something works.

Now, specifics: I'm not going to say that noone is ever sexually assaulted by a stranger in a dark alley, but it is statistically infinitesimally unlikely. Your dad is more likely to rape you than a stranger in a dark alley. The stranger in a dark alley story works and is easy to absorb because it feeds into a preexisting mythology which is actually extremely damaging. It reduces the ability of victims to report and to be believed when their story does not fit the myth, and almost noone's story ever does.

So okay. You made a game about sexual assault and its aftermath. That's cool. I Spit on your Grave is also a movie about sexual assault and its aftermath. Having a game be about something upsetting does not automatically make it worthy or educational.

In fact, I'm going to invent a phrase: sympathy porn.

Sympathy porn is when a traumatic or difficult issue is used simply to invoke compassionate emotions, because compassionate emotions are pleasurable to feel. They evoke a sense of oneself being a caring person, they evoke a feeling of being able to connect with other people. The problem is that those emotions are not actually a symptom of genuine empathy or understanding, they reflect a kind of masturbatory self-concept.

Real life often resists the kind of simple pleasure and uncomplicated resolutions which games are designed to provide. That's why we play games in the first place, because they're more enjoyable than real life. But if games are ever going to tackle socially conscious issues, then to some extent they need to be able to step past the ability to simply offer uncomplicated pleasure and to set themselves a purpose beyond that, whether that purpose is to inform the audience, to subvert the audience's desire for pleasure in order to make them recognize something they might not want to recognize, or even just to find some middle ground between being entertaining and challenging.

However, the temptation to make sympathy porn will always be there, and we as an audience have to look out for that.

 

[WhiteNachos]

Hey if the Hotline Miami 2 controversy has taught me anything it's that rape can NEVER be in a video game no matter what!! Even if it's viewed in a negative light and not actually happening in the game it shouldn't be there. Rape is not a game!!1!

Ok sarcasm aside, I'm not sure what exactly we do in this game. If it's just going to be walking game then I hope it's short.

 

[WhiteNachos]

Now, specifics: I'm not going to say that noone is ever sexually assaulted by a stranger in a dark alley, but it is statistically infinitesimally unlikely. Your dad is more likely to rape you than a stranger in a dark alley. The stranger in a dark alley story works and is easy to absorb because it feeds into a preexisting mythology which is actually extremely damaging. It reduces the ability of victims to report and to be believed when their story does not fit the myth, and almost noone's story ever does.

[citation needed] that this reduces a victim's ability to be believed. It seems like people who call out rape get believed by society even on just their word. Take Virginia, or the many instances of "man has sex with his students, is arrested". Hell there's tons of jokes about "your creepy uncle touchy" or whatever.

Edit: And what if the person who was made this game WAS assaulted by a stranger in a dark alley, should they not tell their story?

 

[MirenBainesUSMC]

So I guess now Anita S will have a new avenue to rant upon to get on Daily Show next ...

 

[Rayce Archer]

In my head I'm trying to work out a flow of events that leads to this being a good idea.

If you play it to have fun, then you're awful. So no.
If you've actually BEEN raped you're probably going to find that this trivializes your experiences because of course it will, it's a VIDEO GAME. Nope again.
If you're playing this to understand rape, well you won't because again, it's a VIDEO GAME. So no.

I just can't figure out a target audience or end intent or useful outcome. I won't by any means say it shouldn't be made, and if the developer IS a rape survivor, which is unclear, then I can see how it would be a great catharsis- I just don't get how its useful to anyone else.

 

[Darknacht]

In my head I'm trying to work out a flow of events that leads to this being a good idea.

If you play it to have fun, then you're awful. So no.
If you've actually BEEN raped you're probably going to find that this trivializes your experiences because of course it will, it's a VIDEO GAME. Nope again.
If you're playing this to understand rape, well you won't because again, it's a VIDEO GAME. So no.

I just can't figure out a target audience or end intent or useful outcome. I won't by any means say it shouldn't be made, and if the developer IS a rape survivor, which is unclear, then I can see how it would be a great catharsis- I just don't get how its useful to anyone else.

Just like there is no point in making movies that are about rape or writing books that are about rape? Oh thats right video games have to be fun thats why it would be impossible to make a good game about something like PTSD, oh wait that already was made.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

I'm curious to see what comes of this. Much like Depression Question (back before all the fun of the event that shall not be named), it can be an interesting look into someone else's experiences and thoughts. I'm guessing however, like DQ, it'll end up not really making much of a name for itself since these experiences impact people in such different ways but there's nothing wrong with trying to relay one experience and the way that that particular person handled it.

what event? gamergate? dont worry dude you are free to mention it, the escapist is not one of those sites that will ban you if you mention gamergate



as for the game personally i think its a bad idea, first of all, as a game the idea doesnt sound entertaining in the slightest, second the graphics look more lazy than minimalist, third the gameplay doesnt seem to me much different from the other dime a dozen "walking simulators", fourth, what is the end goal? to overcome your trauma and live hapily ever after? to live feeling exposed, vulnerable and miserable for the rest of your life?

as a mean to give a message, i think it also fails, nothing short of being raped oneself could really convey how a rape victim feels, worse yet, it might end up oversimplying how a rape victim truthly feels

i dont have much faith in the game

 

[sumanoskae]

K... I can't help but think the discussion surrounding this game will be more worthy of note than the game itself. Doesn't look terrible or anything; strikes me as Dear Esther with a more pronounced art style and Oculus Rift support.

Little insubstantial for my tastes.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

as for the game personally i think its a bad idea, first of all, as a game the idea doesnt sound entertaining in the slightest,

First, that's just like, your opinion man. Also, why do games have to be entertaining in a traditional sense?

second the graphics look more lazy than minimalist,

With the amount of effort that was clearly put into the lighting effects, I'm pretty certain not putting in textures was a concious decision rather than just a bit of laziness.

third the gameplay doesnt seem to me much different from the other dime a dozen "walking simulators",

True, but most games are very similar to other games. Still, I think this has some merit. I really hope they put enough effort into the gameplay to make it stand out on that front as well, like Stanley Parable did.

fourth, what is the end goal? to overcome your trauma and live hapily ever after? to live feeling exposed, vulnerable and miserable for the rest of your life?

Why does a game have to have an end goal? Seems a bit dumb to me.

as a mean to give a message, i think it also fails, nothing short of being raped oneself could really convey how a rape victim feels, worse yet, it might end up oversimplying how a rape victim truthly feels

I don't not exclude the possibility that media of any form can help relate the feeling of some personal experience. And even an oversimplification of such experiences is better than absolutely nothing.

i dont have much faith in the game

I have hope for it.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

as for the game personally i think its a bad idea, first of all, as a game the idea doesnt sound entertaining in the slightest,

First, that's just like, your opinion man. Also, why do games have to be entertaining in a traditional sense?

i dont know, does a plane need to fly?

games are a mean of entertainment, their only purpose is to entertain

second the graphics look more lazy than minimalist,

With the amount of effort that was clearly put into the lighting effects, I'm pretty certain not putting in textures was a concious decision rather than just a bit of laziness.

lighting effects which also look underwhelming

this is how you pull a minimalistic style

third the gameplay doesnt seem to me much different from the other dime a dozen "walking simulators",

True, but most games are very similar to other games. Still, I think this has some merit. I really hope they put enough effort into the gameplay to make it stand out on that front as well, like Stanley Parable did.

what gameplay? walking simulators barely have any gameplay, that is the problem

fourth, what is the end goal? to overcome your trauma and live hapily ever after? to live feeling exposed, vulnerable and miserable for the rest of your life?

Why does a game have to have an end goal? Seems a bit dumb to me.

because its a video game, even games with no end such as minecraft and the Sims have implied goals, survive

as a mean to give a message, i think it also fails, nothing short of being raped oneself could really convey how a rape victim feels, worse yet, it might end up oversimplying how a rape victim truthly feels

I don't not exclude the possibility that media of any form can help relate the feeling of some personal experience. And even an oversimplification of such experiences is better than absolutely nothing.

"And even an oversimplification of such experiences is better than absolutely nothing"

no it wouldnt, because you end up trivializing the whole thing

i dont have much faith in the game

I have hope for it.

good for you