Autumn, a game about rape

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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Interesting concept for a game but it doesnt look strike me as very interesting or like it achieves its desired emotionalness judging by the trailer.
 

Terminal Blue

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I know this is well intentioned, but seriously..

Rape myth acceptance: The game.

Okay. No more glib.

I like the idea of "socially conscious" games. I'm not 100% sure who actually plays them, but as a basic idea it's kind of interesting and I look forward to seeing how this whole trend develops, because I can see that doing a lot of good for gaming as a medium. Anything which opens up the potential for games to tackle more serious issues works for me.

But, I think when you try to make a game with a message, it needs to be a message which is actually useful to someone. That need not be the group or demographic depicted. In fact it almost certainly isn't. Very few rape victims/survivors/whatever will actively purchase or play a game about rape, and that's not to say I don't think there is a market for therapeutic games, but that's a whole other ball game which needs to be handled very carefully and probably with extensive cooperation from professionals working in mental health.

That means the purpose of socially conscious gaming is generally to raise awareness of an issue, or to try and provoke people to think about something which they maybe haven't considered before, and that's great.. but it does create a responsibility to send a message which is actually going to facilitate understanding of that issue, and that means sometimes being willing to actually challenge an audience on its own assumptions or mythology about how something works.

Now, specifics: I'm not going to say that noone is ever sexually assaulted by a stranger in a dark alley, but it is statistically infinitesimally unlikely. Your dad is more likely to rape you than a stranger in a dark alley. The stranger in a dark alley story works and is easy to absorb because it feeds into a preexisting mythology which is actually extremely damaging. It reduces the ability of victims to report and to be believed when their story does not fit the myth, and almost noone's story ever does.

So okay. You made a game about sexual assault and its aftermath. That's cool. I Spit on your Grave is also a movie about sexual assault and its aftermath. Having a game be about something upsetting does not automatically make it worthy or educational.

In fact, I'm going to invent a phrase: sympathy porn.

Sympathy porn is when a traumatic or difficult issue is used simply to invoke compassionate emotions, because compassionate emotions are pleasurable to feel. They evoke a sense of oneself being a caring person, they evoke a feeling of being able to connect with other people. The problem is that those emotions are not actually a symptom of genuine empathy or understanding, they reflect a kind of masturbatory self-concept.

Real life often resists the kind of simple pleasure and uncomplicated resolutions which games are designed to provide. That's why we play games in the first place, because they're more enjoyable than real life. But if games are ever going to tackle socially conscious issues, then to some extent they need to be able to step past the ability to simply offer uncomplicated pleasure and to set themselves a purpose beyond that, whether that purpose is to inform the audience, to subvert the audience's desire for pleasure in order to make them recognize something they might not want to recognize, or even just to find some middle ground between being entertaining and challenging.

However, the temptation to make sympathy porn will always be there, and we as an audience have to look out for that.
 

WhiteNachos

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Hey if the Hotline Miami 2 controversy has taught me anything it's that rape can NEVER be in a video game no matter what!! Even if it's viewed in a negative light and not actually happening in the game it shouldn't be there. Rape is not a game!!1!

Ok sarcasm aside, I'm not sure what exactly we do in this game. If it's just going to be walking game then I hope it's short.
 

WhiteNachos

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evilthecat said:
Now, specifics: I'm not going to say that noone is ever sexually assaulted by a stranger in a dark alley, but it is statistically infinitesimally unlikely. Your dad is more likely to rape you than a stranger in a dark alley. The stranger in a dark alley story works and is easy to absorb because it feeds into a preexisting mythology which is actually extremely damaging. It reduces the ability of victims to report and to be believed when their story does not fit the myth, and almost noone's story ever does.
[citation needed] that this reduces a victim's ability to be believed. It seems like people who call out rape get believed by society even on just their word. Take Virginia, or the many instances of "man has sex with his students, is arrested". Hell there's tons of jokes about "your creepy uncle touchy" or whatever.

Edit: And what if the person who was made this game WAS assaulted by a stranger in a dark alley, should they not tell their story?
 

Rayce Archer

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In my head I'm trying to work out a flow of events that leads to this being a good idea.

If you play it to have fun, then you're awful. So no.
If you've actually BEEN raped you're probably going to find that this trivializes your experiences because of course it will, it's a VIDEO GAME. Nope again.
If you're playing this to understand rape, well you won't because again, it's a VIDEO GAME. So no.

I just can't figure out a target audience or end intent or useful outcome. I won't by any means say it shouldn't be made, and if the developer IS a rape survivor, which is unclear, then I can see how it would be a great catharsis- I just don't get how its useful to anyone else.
 

Darknacht

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Rayce Archer said:
In my head I'm trying to work out a flow of events that leads to this being a good idea.

If you play it to have fun, then you're awful. So no.
If you've actually BEEN raped you're probably going to find that this trivializes your experiences because of course it will, it's a VIDEO GAME. Nope again.
If you're playing this to understand rape, well you won't because again, it's a VIDEO GAME. So no.

I just can't figure out a target audience or end intent or useful outcome. I won't by any means say it shouldn't be made, and if the developer IS a rape survivor, which is unclear, then I can see how it would be a great catharsis- I just don't get how its useful to anyone else.
Just like there is no point in making movies that are about rape or writing books that are about rape? Oh thats right video games have to be fun thats why it would be impossible to make a good game about something like PTSD, oh wait that already was made.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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tippy2k2 said:
I'm curious to see what comes of this. Much like Depression Question (back before all the fun of the event that shall not be named), it can be an interesting look into someone else's experiences and thoughts. I'm guessing however, like DQ, it'll end up not really making much of a name for itself since these experiences impact people in such different ways but there's nothing wrong with trying to relay one experience and the way that that particular person handled it.
what event? gamergate? dont worry dude you are free to mention it, the escapist is not one of those sites that will ban you if you mention gamergate



as for the game personally i think its a bad idea, first of all, as a game the idea doesnt sound entertaining in the slightest, second the graphics look more lazy than minimalist, third the gameplay doesnt seem to me much different from the other dime a dozen "walking simulators", fourth, what is the end goal? to overcome your trauma and live hapily ever after? to live feeling exposed, vulnerable and miserable for the rest of your life?

as a mean to give a message, i think it also fails, nothing short of being raped oneself could really convey how a rape victim feels, worse yet, it might end up oversimplying how a rape victim truthly feels

i dont have much faith in the game
 

sumanoskae

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K... I can't help but think the discussion surrounding this game will be more worthy of note than the game itself. Doesn't look terrible or anything; strikes me as Dear Esther with a more pronounced art style and Oculus Rift support.

Little insubstantial for my tastes.
 

Revnak_v1legacy

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NuclearKangaroo said:
as for the game personally i think its a bad idea, first of all, as a game the idea doesnt sound entertaining in the slightest,
First, that's just like, your opinion man. Also, why do games have to be entertaining in a traditional sense?

second the graphics look more lazy than minimalist,
With the amount of effort that was clearly put into the lighting effects, I'm pretty certain not putting in textures was a concious decision rather than just a bit of laziness.

third the gameplay doesnt seem to me much different from the other dime a dozen "walking simulators",
True, but most games are very similar to other games. Still, I think this has some merit. I really hope they put enough effort into the gameplay to make it stand out on that front as well, like Stanley Parable did.

fourth, what is the end goal? to overcome your trauma and live hapily ever after? to live feeling exposed, vulnerable and miserable for the rest of your life?
Why does a game have to have an end goal? Seems a bit dumb to me.
as a mean to give a message, i think it also fails, nothing short of being raped oneself could really convey how a rape victim feels, worse yet, it might end up oversimplying how a rape victim truthly feels
I don't not exclude the possibility that media of any form can help relate the feeling of some personal experience. And even an oversimplification of such experiences is better than absolutely nothing.
i dont have much faith in the game
I have hope for it.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Revnak said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
as for the game personally i think its a bad idea, first of all, as a game the idea doesnt sound entertaining in the slightest,
First, that's just like, your opinion man. Also, why do games have to be entertaining in a traditional sense?
i dont know, does a plane need to fly?

games are a mean of entertainment, their only purpose is to entertain

Revnak said:
second the graphics look more lazy than minimalist,
With the amount of effort that was clearly put into the lighting effects, I'm pretty certain not putting in textures was a concious decision rather than just a bit of laziness.
lighting effects which also look underwhelming

this is how you pull a minimalistic style



Revnak said:
third the gameplay doesnt seem to me much different from the other dime a dozen "walking simulators",
True, but most games are very similar to other games. Still, I think this has some merit. I really hope they put enough effort into the gameplay to make it stand out on that front as well, like Stanley Parable did.
what gameplay? walking simulators barely have any gameplay, that is the problem

Revnak said:
fourth, what is the end goal? to overcome your trauma and live hapily ever after? to live feeling exposed, vulnerable and miserable for the rest of your life?
Why does a game have to have an end goal? Seems a bit dumb to me.
because its a video game, even games with no end such as minecraft and the Sims have implied goals, survive

Revnak said:
as a mean to give a message, i think it also fails, nothing short of being raped oneself could really convey how a rape victim feels, worse yet, it might end up oversimplying how a rape victim truthly feels
I don't not exclude the possibility that media of any form can help relate the feeling of some personal experience. And even an oversimplification of such experiences is better than absolutely nothing.
"And even an oversimplification of such experiences is better than absolutely nothing"

no it wouldnt, because you end up trivializing the whole thing

Revnak said:
i dont have much faith in the game
I have hope for it.
good for you
 

Vigormortis

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TravelerSF said:
I'm not that impressed by the fact that the trailer focuses so heavily on the physical act of rape and the mental trauma is represented by a soft music montage. "Getting raped" in a videogame does not help the player to understand the victim. The game has to somehow walk the player through the emotional damage it has caused, either by dialogue or other means. And that's immensely difficult. I didn't see that happening here so I remain sceptical for the time being.
This was what I was thinking.

Thing is, a video game offers a powerful platform from which one could tell a story like this. Literally putting the 'reader' within the perspective of the story's lead can make for a more impactful experience.

Shame this game doesn't seem to be doing that. It looks more like it's relying on cheap scares and a suffocating level of pretentiousness.

A topic like rape, and the traumatic effects it has on those unfortunate enough to face it, deserves far better.

Even their method of showing the emotional trauma after-the-fact looks like it leaves a lot to be desired. Simply having the world presented as grey-scale, and all people as faceless entities, screams more of lazy design than it does of deep, thoughtful artistic expression.

Wouldn't it make more sense to, say, have one of the later-game options be to try to enter into a romantic relationship with someone, but then present certain things that would better reflect the emotional trauma rape victims experience? Like having the visage of the romantic figure change to something grotesque and sinister the closer the player character gets, either physically or emotionally. Or perhaps the player could be plagued by shadowy figures that follow the player where ever they go, but remain always on the periphery of the player's vision. You could even limit the appearance of such figures when the player is around others they know or trust. Or for a mix up, have them become more prominent when the player is around other characters that their character once trusted, but of whom have some similarities to the player's attacker.

Still, criticisms aside, this project seems to be trying to do more than DepressionQuest did. So kudos to that...
 

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NuclearKangaroo said:
Revnak said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
as for the game personally i think its a bad idea, first of all, as a game the idea doesnt sound entertaining in the slightest,
First, that's just like, your opinion man. Also, why do games have to be entertaining in a traditional sense?
i dont know, does a plane need to fly?

games are a mean of entertainment, their only purpose is to entertain
Games are a medium of expression. They exist to express. Games are a medium of pronography, they exist to sexually gratify. Games are a medium of Willem DaFoe. They exist to show us his goblin-y glory. Stop defining art so narrowly.
Revnak said:
second the graphics look more lazy than minimalist,
With the amount of effort that was clearly put into the lighting effects, I'm pretty certain not putting in textures was a concious decision rather than just a bit of laziness.
lighting effects which also look underwhelming

this is how you pull a minimalistic style
You realize that the difference between the two is use of color in light effects right? Which this game does? So there actually isn't a difference? There aren't textures on that image you showed either, or at the very least there is no need for them.
Revnak said:
third the gameplay doesnt seem to me much different from the other dime a dozen "walking simulators",
True, but most games are very similar to other games. Still, I think this has some merit. I really hope they put enough effort into the gameplay to make it stand out on that front as well, like Stanley Parable did.
what gameplay? walking simulators barely have any gameplay, that is the problem
If you think that Stanley Parable had no gameplay then I question the value in continuing here.
Revnak said:
fourth, what is the end goal? to overcome your trauma and live hapily ever after? to live feeling exposed, vulnerable and miserable for the rest of your life?
Why does a game have to have an end goal? Seems a bit dumb to me.
because its a video game, even games with no end such as minecraft and the Sims have implied goals, survive
Why? Seems like a pretty artificial thing to me.

Revnak said:
as a mean to give a message, i think it also fails, nothing short of being raped oneself could really convey how a rape victim feels, worse yet, it might end up oversimplying how a rape victim truthly feels
I don't not exclude the possibility that media of any form can help relate the feeling of some personal experience. And even an oversimplification of such experiences is better than absolutely nothing.
"And even an oversimplification of such experiences is better than absolutely nothing"

no it wouldnt, because you end up trivializing the whole thing
I would rather someone talk about something in a limited, simplified manner than never have the topic addressed at all, at least because then we can learn how to address it better in the future. And I find it really assuming of you when you say that any and all attempts to address rape in a medium will be an oversimplification of the issue.
 

Riotguards

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Revnak said:
I would rather someone talk about something in a limited, simplified manner than never have the topic addressed at all, at least because then we can learn how to address it better in the future. And I find it really assuming of you when you say that any and all attempts to address rape in a medium will be an oversimplification of the issue.
if this was not related to a traumatic event i would support your ideal, experience simulations like Autism, blind/deafness, etc all have something which we can learn from and perhaps how we can all approach it in a more positive light from our experience

buuuuuut

this is a traumatic event, i cannot speak for us all but the torture scene in GTA 5 was not fun nor was it something we would play as a game or experience and then traumatic events like "burning house" simulator or family member going crazy, etc, etc are also something that while we can talk about it shouldn't be put into a game / simulation

now this rape aftermath simulator teach's us what exactly? WE CANNOT understand how the person feels at all as it is something which we haven't felt, why someone will feel immense paranoia like the game portrays or why the everything is black & white is also something which we cannot tell unless we experience this as well

furthermore its most likely that this does not speak for anyone who's experience this trauma (or assuming the developer is themselves a victim) so in the end you'll not only make the victims feel annoyed that they've been portrayed wrongly but also spread misinformation to people who are generally interested in this subject


i honestly do not like the idea of this game simply because its a delicate subject, this isn't a subject which we should try to emulate in order to try educate people because in the end its not going to help at all
 

TravelerSF

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Vigormortis said:
TravelerSF said:
I'm not that impressed by the fact that the trailer focuses so heavily on the physical act of rape and the mental trauma is represented by a soft music montage. "Getting raped" in a videogame does not help the player to understand the victim. The game has to somehow walk the player through the emotional damage it has caused, either by dialogue or other means. And that's immensely difficult. I didn't see that happening here so I remain sceptical for the time being.
This was what I was thinking.

Thing is, a video game offers a powerful platform from which one could tell a story like this. Literally putting the 'reader' within the perspective of the story's lead can make for a more impactful experience.

Shame this game doesn't seem to be doing that. It looks more like it's relying on cheap scares and a suffocating level of pretentiousness.

A topic like rape, and the traumatic effects it has on those unfortunate enough to face it, deserves far better.

Even their method of showing the emotional trauma after-the-fact looks like it leaves a lot to be desired. Simply having the world presented as grey-scale, and all people as faceless entities, screams more of lazy design than it does of deep, thoughtful artistic expression.

Wouldn't it make more sense to, say, have one of the later-game options be to try to enter into a romantic relationship with someone, but then present certain things that would better reflect the emotional trauma rape victims experience? Like having the visage of the romantic figure change to something grotesque and sinister the closer the player character gets, either physically or emotionally. Or perhaps the player could be plagued by shadowy figures that follow the player where ever they go, but remain always on the periphery of the player's vision. You could even limit the appearance of such figures when the player is around others they know or trust. Or for a mix up, have them become more prominent when the player is around other characters that their character once trusted, but of whom have some similarities to the player's attacker.

Still, criticisms aside, this project seems to be trying to do more than DepressionQuest did. So kudos to that...
Yup. If they'd divide the game into pre- and post-rape parts there's a lot they could do. After introducing the player into the game mechanics during the first part they could cripple them during the second part. Walking alone, in the night could turn into a disorientating and unpleasant experience. Daily functions could be interrupted by minigames which draw your mind back to the rape. Visual images or distortion could make regular human interactions difficult, or even possible. The overarching narrative could be a new relationship which you try to make work, despite how badly the rape has harmed you both emotionally and sexually. Failures could cause you miss meetings, skip eating or showers and just generally keep pushing you further away from society.

Granted I'm not a game designer and a lot of the things I mentioned could end up being very gimmicky, but I just would've wanted to see the designers to actually try to take advantage of what GAMES can do as a medium.
 

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Riotguards said:
Revnak said:
I would rather someone talk about something in a limited, simplified manner than never have the topic addressed at all, at least because then we can learn how to address it better in the future. And I find it really assuming of you when you say that any and all attempts to address rape in a medium will be an oversimplification of the issue.
if this was not related to a traumatic event i would support your ideal, experience simulations like Autism, blind/deafness, etc all have something which we can learn from and perhaps how we can all approach it in a more positive light from our experience

buuuuuut

this is a traumatic event, i cannot speak for us all but the torture scene in GTA 5 was not fun nor was it something we would play as a game or experience and then traumatic events like "burning house" simulator or family member going crazy, etc, etc are also something that while we can talk about it shouldn't be put into a game / simulation
What makes trauma unplayable? I don't think games should be limited in that sense. They are capable of relating trauma. They are capable of expressing these things.
now this rape aftermath simulator teach's us what exactly? WE CANNOT understand how the person feels at all as it is something which we haven't felt, why someone will feel immense paranoia like the game portrays or why the everything is black & white is also something which we cannot tell unless we experience this as well
If something cannot be related to than nothing can. I do not think that humans are so alien to one another that it is impossible for them to relate to each other's traumas. Done right, I think the game could relate the trauma of rape.
furthermore its most likely that this does not speak for anyone who's experience this trauma (or assuming the developer is themselves a victim) so in the end you'll not only make the victims feel annoyed that they've been portrayed wrongly but also spread misinformation to people who are generally interested in this subject
Any information on rape is misinformation regarding someone's experience, but the same can be said of any kind of experience, so I don't see your point. And if the developer has indeed experienced this trauma, then why are we telling them that they have no right to try and relate it to others? That is a truly awful kind of cruelty.
i honestly do not like the idea of this game simply because its a delicate subject, this isn't a subject which we should try to emulate in order to try educate people because in the end its not going to help at all
No subject is so delicate that it cannot be portrayed.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Revnak said:
Games are a medium of expression. They exist to express. Games are a medium of pronography, they exist to sexually gratify. Games are a medium of Willem DaFoe. They exist to show us his goblin-y glory. Stop defining art so narrowly.
you have to be joking

you talk exactly like someone who does not know what art is

video games were not created because some artist somewhere wanted to make "super artsy bros", they were created to entertain first and foremost, a game made not with that purpose is not a game

Revnak said:
You realize that the difference between the two is use of color in light effects right? Which this game does? So there actually isn't a difference? There aren't textures on that image you showed either, or at the very least there is no need for them.
you havent played antichamber have you?


Revnak said:
If you think that Stanley Parable had no gameplay then I question the value in continuing here.
correct, the stanley parable barely had any gameplay, is was little more than a choose your own adventure book

or course the stanley parable was SOMEWHAT redeemed by its humor, which made the whole thing ENTERTAINING, but i dont think making fun of rape is the best idea

Revnak said:
Why? Seems like a pretty artificial thing to me.
you are joking right? i mean i wasnt sure at first but now im almost convinced

its a video game, almost none of it is non-artificial, its the the product of algorithms and instructions assembled in a language made by humans for machines, the machines then take these instructions and processes them in thousands upon thousands of logic gates and calculates thousands upon thousand of mathematical results per second, the end result of this 100% artificial feat of human ingenuinty is the game that is then presented in your monitor/TV

take it from a software engineer, theres nothing natural about a computer program, is logic, made by humans, for machines

at best software can become a mockery of nature, somewhat simulate it, but that game threw away any pretense of that the moment the main character shrunk to the size of a mouse

Revnak said:
I would rather someone talk about something in a limited, simplified manner than never have the topic addressed at all, at least because then we can learn how to address it better in the future. And I find it really assuming of you when you say that any and all attempts to address rape in a medium will be an oversimplification of the issue.
you think rape is not addressed? you think the public at large isnt aware of rape? you think most sane people support rape?

and now you think im not givign video games credit for what they can accomplish?

listen pal, im no rape victim, but im pretty sure no video game can ever tell you how it feels to be raped, neither can any movie, painting or book, none of them can ever tell you what it feels to be shot, what it feels to lose a person close to you, etc

those are things only the person experiencing it knows how it feels, because at the very depths of this intricate machine inside our heads we know it all is not real, no book, movie, painting or video game will ever make us forget that, atleast under normal circunstances, and thats the big difference

because for the person that was raped it doesnt end when they turn off the PC

thats why a game about what it feels to be raped will invariably fail, and its pretentious as shit to make one thinking it could ever work, a game involving rape in some way, as an extra element into the narrative, thats a different thing, just like games often involve death into the narrative
 

Riotguards

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Revnak said:
What makes trauma unplayable? I don't think games should be limited in that sense. They are capable of relating trauma. They are capable of expressing these things.
i never said it should be limited, i just said an experience simulation is a bad idea, a traumatic event such as the torture scene in GTA 5 is more relatable than just having a torture simulation game

what exsactly do you gain out of a truama experience simulation which would educate you enough that it would justify its existance, this isn't a game its most likely being pushed as an experience which is to educate people but when that "education" is already a know topic to everyone who is not a scumbag then what exactly do you gain from it

If something cannot be related to than nothing can. I do not think that humans are so alien to one another that it is impossible for them to relate to each other's traumas. Done right, I think the game could relate the trauma of rape.
this is not what i was talking about at all, if you were to play this game but instead of it being about rape trauma its instead about depression you'd come to a completely different conclusion than what you would with the rape trauma experience

with the depression simulation you can actually RELATE to said person because we have all experience one form of depression or loss of life but the majority of people have not experienced rape, so by that logic how can we come to relate to something that we can't understand

just like the Autism simulation there was at least something relatable but that cannot be said about rape

Any information on rape is misinformation regarding someone's experience, but the same can be said of any kind of experience, so I don't see your point. And if the developer has indeed experienced this trauma, then why are we telling them that they have no right to try and relate it to others? That is a truly awful kind of cruelty.
and how exactly would you prepose a rape experience simulation would provide said information if its all misinformation, anyone who is old enough to play this experience simulator already knows that rape is bad (well fire world none scumbag) so this would be preaching to the choir


No subject is so delicate that it cannot be portrayed.
there's a limit to imitating a subject that is already considered delicate, its the same reason we do not have 9/11 simulations
 

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NuclearKangaroo said:
Revnak said:
Games are a medium of expression. They exist to express. Games are a medium of pronography, they exist to sexually gratify. Games are a medium of Willem DaFoe. They exist to show us his goblin-y glory. Stop defining art so narrowly.
you have to be joking

you talk exactly like someone who does not know what art is

video games were not created because some artist somewhere wanted to make "super artsy bros", they were created to entertain first and foremost, a game made not with that purpose is not a game
I know that games are an artform, that other artforms have addressed this, and that other artforms also started out as entertainment first and foremost. If you want games to be nothing more than entertainment, then go live your close minded life, but don't humor yourself into thinking you actually have an argument to support that.
Revnak said:
You realize that the difference between the two is use of color in light effects right? Which this game does? So there actually isn't a difference? There aren't textures on that image you showed either, or at the very least there is no need for them.
you havent played antichamber have you?
I've watched my friend play a good deal of it. Pretty certain that most of that can be done with just lighting effects. Further, I really don't see why all other games which are going for a minimalist artstyle need to look like anti-chamber. This game is trying to use it's visuals to portray alienation and depression (I presume) and bleached out visuals with faceless people does an excellent job of that.
Revnak said:
If you think that Stanley Parable had no gameplay then I question the value in continuing here.
correct, the stanley parable barely had any gameplay, is was little more than a choose your own adventure book

or course the stanley parable was SOMEWHAT redeemed by its humor, which made the whole thing ENTERTAINING, but i dont think making fun of rape is the best idea
Wow.
Revnak said:
Why? Seems like a pretty artificial thing to me.
you are joking right? i mean i wasnt sure at first but now im almost convinced

its a video game, almost none of it is non-artificial, its the the product of algorithms and instructions assembled in a language made by humans for machines, the machines then take these instructions and processes them in thousands upon thousands of logic gates and calculates thousands upon thousand of mathematical results per second, the end result of this 100% artificial feat of human ingenuinty is the game that is then presented in your monitor/TV

take it from a software engineer, theres nothing natural about a computer program, is logic, made by humans, for machines

at best software can become a mockery of nature, somewhat simulate it, but that game threw away any pretense of that the moment the main character shrunk to the size of a mouse
Good job misrepresenting what I was saying. And given that I am also a software engineer (working towards it at the very least), I am pretty aware of what a fucking algorithm is. I was saying that the rule that games must have goals is an artificial one, one you just made up, one without purpose.
Revnak said:
I would rather someone talk about something in a limited, simplified manner than never have the topic addressed at all, at least because then we can learn how to address it better in the future. And I find it really assuming of you when you say that any and all attempts to address rape in a medium will be an oversimplification of the issue.
you think rape is not addressed? you think the public at large isnt aware of rape? you think most sane people support rape?
No. To a degree, in that they could understand how it makes survivors feel. No.
and now you think im not givign video games credit for what they can accomplish?
Given that you seem convinced that all games must exist for entertainment first and foremost, yes, you really aren't giving them credit.
listen pal, im no rape victim, but im pretty sure no video game can ever tell you how it feels to be raped, neither can any movie, painting or book, none of them can ever tell you what it feels to be shot, what it feels to lose a person close to you, etc
They can, to some degree or another. They can definitely help.
those are things only the person experiencing it knows how it feels, because at the very depths of this intricate machine inside our heads we know it all is not real, no book, movie, painting or video game will ever make us forget that, atleast under normal circunstances, and thats the big difference
And if a person who experiences those things wants to try and relate those feelings, is it some entirely futile endeavor? Is man so inherently alien to man that empathy is functionally impossible? No.
because for the person that was raped it doesnt end when they turn off the PC
A fact I am acutely aware of thank you very much. I don't need your help to know that. It doesn't change the fact that I would like others to understand how such a thing feels, at least for a short time. It doesn't change the fact that I would like my own experiences to be understood. I want to reach out to people. I want to speak to someone. And so I will defend the idea of someone else doing likewise.
thats why a game about what it feels to be raped will invariably fail, and its pretentious as shit to make one thinking it could ever work, a game involving rape in some way, as an extra element into the narrative, thats a different thing, just like games often involve death into the narrative
Talking about an entirely human experience, attempting to relate it, that cannot be, in any shape, way, or form, pretentious. It just isn't. And I refuse to let my personal experiences be relegated to side stories and minor characters for the sake of your low-brow thoughtlessness. What I have lived through is not pretentious. What I have dealt with is not pretentious. It was human. It was life. And you will never convince me that any effort I or anyone else may make to relate such circumstances is "pretentious." You will never make me believe that it is too irrelatable, too thoughtful, too emotional, too painful. Because I was fucking there. I lived through it. And I know what it was. And I will not be silent for your sake, nor should anyone else.
 

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Riotguards said:
Revnak said:
What makes trauma unplayable? I don't think games should be limited in that sense. They are capable of relating trauma. They are capable of expressing these things.
i never said it should be limited, i just said an experience simulation is a bad idea, a traumatic event such as the torture scene in GTA 5 is more relatable than just having a torture simulation game

what exsactly do you gain out of a truama experience simulation which would educate you enough that it would justify its existance, this isn't a game its most likely being pushed as an experience which is to educate people but when that "education" is already a know topic to everyone who is not a scumbag then what exactly do you gain from it
What is gained from any kind of expression? I think that in this case a more empathetic understanding of the subject is very possible, and that is certainly not a bad thing.
If something cannot be related to than nothing can. I do not think that humans are so alien to one another that it is impossible for them to relate to each other's traumas. Done right, I think the game could relate the trauma of rape.
this is not what i was talking about at all, if you were to play this game but instead of it being about rape trauma its instead about depression you'd come to a completely different conclusion than what you would with the rape trauma experience

with the depression simulation you can actually RELATE to said person because we have all experience one form of depression or loss of life but the majority of people have not experienced rape, so by that logic how can we come to relate to something that we can't understand

just like the Autism simulation there was at least something relatable but that cannot be said about rape
Not everyone has experienced chemical depression, but I do believe that it can be related in such a way that others can understand. Likewise, not everyone has experienced rape or its after effects, but I believe that people are capable of understanding. And I just do not apreciate being told that my experiences are so alien that my fellow human beings cannot understand them. If anything, that is a far greater insult than any well intentioned attempt at portraying rape could ever be.
Any information on rape is misinformation regarding someone's experience, but the same can be said of any kind of experience, so I don't see your point. And if the developer has indeed experienced this trauma, then why are we telling them that they have no right to try and relate it to others? That is a truly awful kind of cruelty.
and how exactly would you prepose a rape experience simulation would provide said information if its all misinformation, anyone who is old enough to play this experience simulator already knows that rape is bad (well fire world none scumbag) so this would be preaching to the choir
It can help you understand how it makes another person feel, if only in their case, if only for a moment, and that is still worth the effort.
No subject is so delicate that it cannot be portrayed.
there's a limit to imitating a subject that is already considered delicate, its the same reason we do not have 9/11 simulations
I think we could. If we can have movies on the subject, addressing the emotion of it, addressing the fallout, then we can have games do the same. We can have games do better.