Awful Characters Find Their Way Into ME3

[Geo Da Sponge]

It never ceases to amaze me just how much hate a Bioware character can earn by being humanly flawed. Apparently the worst thing you can ever do is try to tell someone about your problems, as no matter how justified you are, you will be labelled a whiner.

I ask Kaiden about himself and he tells me that he was (possibly intentionally) exposed to element zero as a kid, and then sent off to a brutal boot camp? What an emo!

Alistair, literally everyone you know and love is either dead or dying over the course of Dragon Age: Origins! That's no excuse to complain about it to the only person you could now consider a friend!

Jack, you were abducted and experimented on as a kid. Then once you escaped you had to survive as a child amongst the worst and most dangerous scum the galaxy has to offer. What possible reason could you have not to likable person?

Ashley, you're cautious around an entire galaxy full of sentient species that humanity has only just discovered because you believe they'll look out for themselves first just like humans do? This totally puts on par with the KKK, despite how you reject the Terra Firma party and Cerberus.

Ash --> Tough girl recites poetry

Jack writes her own, as you find out in the Shadow Broker DLC. There's two ways this may play out in Mass Effect 3:

Ashley: Oh yes, I read poetry. Tennyson, and so on. You know, the classics.
Jack: Yeah, well I'm like, writing from the inside, y'know? It comes right from my soul. My tortured, tortured soul.
Ashley: Um... You haven't read the classics?
Jack: The stuff I read? It's like, so cutting edge you properly haven't even heard of them. You know, independent stuff.
Ashley: Oh yeah? Well Liara let me read some of your stuff on her network. Can't say I'm too impressed, baldy.
Jack: YOU'RE FUCKING DEAD, *****!

Either that or:

Ashley: Do you like poetry?
Jack: I fucking love poetry!
*Magical poetry power forever*

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

That's like, your opinion man.

Seriously, you don't like the characters, that's fine. Whatever. But what about the people who did like them? They don't get the characters they like because they have a bit of depth? And they do have depth. Kaiden has legitimate reasons to have some grumblings and Ashley, though while a bit racist, isn't some bible-thumper hillbilly who hates people because they're different from them. I mean Kaiden isn't constantly whining on missions and Ashley doesn't complain when she's fighting alongside the Xenos in the group.

And what's this about it being lazy to bring back in established characters? So are they just supposed to add new characters each time? I mean, using old characters is so lazy. Why don't they make a new protagonist and antagonist too. I mean reusing Shepard and the Reapers is just the easy way to make Mass Effect 3.

And as for Mass Effect 2 characters coming back I'd imagine any that survive will make it back for ME 3. I know that they've already guaranteed a couple of them, so I'm guessing practically all of them will be returning (except for maybe Zaeed and Kasumi, being DLC characters and all). And if you lost them you lost them. Suck it up, you could have done better. I mean, it's not like you can't go back and redo the mission...

 

[Plumerou]

REALLY hoping here that Grunt comes back too, that way we will kick ass with Wrex and Grunt because thats how we roll

 

[Gill Kaiser]

Moronic topic. Tonnes of people wanted Kaidan and Ashley back. They were romance options. Just because you didn't like them doesn't mean that they're worthless as characters.

 

[Hader]

Ashley's patriotism way out of proportion (and ya, she's a little racist, but since it's against non-humans she's still less racist than a lot of people I know).

So because it isn't against humans it's automatically less racist?

It may be a different kind of racism but it is racism nonetheless.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

I liked both Kaidan and Ashley, and I really don't think they were 'awful characters' so basically I disagree with you on the most basic level of your argument, and I'm sure a lot of people do as well.

But let's take it as if you are correct, and that Kaidan is an 'emo, who never ceased to complain about his bio-implants.' If you play through to the end of the game it's made pretty clear that he's mostly over his issues. Talking to him about BAaT right to the end reveals that he really is over his issues. The thirty second snapshot of him in ME2 isn't enough to profile him by of course but it looks like he's completely moved on and is now a pretty succesful commander.

Ashley is apparently disturbingly racist/xenophobic. Again, by the end of the game she acknowledges she was wrong in her assumptions, and you can even take her to the Terra Firma party rally and hear her say nice things about her alien crewmates, showing definitively that she is pretty much completely over her xenophobia.

Did you actually talk to these characters? Or play them? Have you played Mass Effect at all in fact? I don't know who you're describing, but it's not Kaidan and Ashley.

 

[Saviordd1]

*Mass Effect SPOILERS to follow*

Alright, so I was just on the Mass Effect wikia, as after watching a friend play Arrival, I was curious as to what was known about potential party members in ME3. After several paragraphs of perusing I came upon this frightening detail: Both Kaiden and Ashley can be recruited.

Really? I mean, honestly. For starters, it's one thing to recycle characters (especially those that PS3 players will not have much insight into) from older titles. But it's a completely different story when you include the emo Kaiden, who never ceased to complain about his bio-implants, and the disturbingly racist/xenophobic Ashley (who has likely formed the galactic equivalent of the KKK since we last left her).

In fact, my only moral struggle in Mass Effect 1 was deciding if I was a bad person for wanting to abandon both of them on that planet (whose name escapes me).

Look, I get that it's difficult to bring in characters from ME2, based on the fact that (again, correct me if I'm wrong) you could have killed most/all of them off at the conclusion of the title. Considering how likable some of these individuals were, this might have been a mistake. I get the whole "this game has consequences" emphasis, but an unintended one might have been preventing any of these characters from joining your party in ME3.

Thoughts? Do you think characters from ME2 will be included? If so, who should be? Also, what do you think about the inclusions mentioned above from ME1?

I think you should learn to read and think a little better (not trolling by the way)

They were major players in ME1, and some people liked them (I like kaidan, shut up) so its nice to have them back during the final struggle.

Plus ME2 characters ARE coming back, Garrus is coming and i have a funny feeling legion will to

 

[Saviordd1]

I guess part of me was just really looking forward to the return of ME2 characters and/or the implementation of new characters, and I'm seriously wondering how possible this is when it seems that we've already filled half a roster with old characters.

This is why they need to lose Tali and Garrus. I like them and all, but we need to give other Turians and Quarians a chance, and Bioware seems to have a one of each type of minority rule.

Have they mentioned anything about female Turians or was that a load of tosh? It would be interesting to see how that would work

Turians are bug reptiles. Females wouldn't have breasts. I bet you've already encountered plenty and just didn't know it.

But surely they would have some sort of feminine characteristics, like I remember Garrus discussing him getting it on with a fellow female Turian in his combat training, but if there was/were female Turains encountered, then I would expect they have some kind of feminine characteristic that defines them differently (different tone of voice, different body shape p.s. I don't need to see breasts the size of melons to realize it's a female but considering this bollywood look-a-like the OP has posted is Bioware's doing I'm glad I can be the sanctimonious little shit)

According to the canon comics the only difference is a slight lack of facial ridges

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

I'm just gonna be sad cuz Mordin died at the end of ME2 for me and he was like the best dude, but you can't pursue a relationship with him for whatever reason, which is disappointing.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

Programmed_For_Darr, I completely agree with you that the game was more in line with how actual interactions happen in real life. I was jokingly lamenting that fact that, unlike in most video games, two to three minutes of persuasive dialogue was not enough to make her see the err of her ways...like when I defused the impasse that Tali and Legion arrived at later in the game.

Yeah that resolved itself too easily if you ask me. Maybe my paragon pesuasion skills were just too high. I was expecting to have to shoot one of them or something. I didn't get that same feeling of tension like I did in the original when I had to talk Wrex down.

 

[badgersprite]

Opinions, though.

Believe it or not, every character is liked by someone and every character is disliked by someone. Presumably more people like these characters than dislike them. If having either Ashley or Kaidan return is seriously enough to ruin an entire game for a person before they've even played it then wow, THAT is what I would call over emotional.

Personally, I don't have strong feelings regarding either Ashley or Kaidan, but it's not going to ruin ME3 for me if my favourite character isn't in it, or if my least favourite character is. Besides, ME2 made me like Liara after I hated her. Maybe you'll find the character has gotten a personality overhaul in the ensuing (however many years since ME1).

 

[Yureina]

I just want to keep my full party from ME2... that would be enough for me.

 

[Indecipherable]

No amount of conversation or logic seemed to pry her away from her convictions.

Just like people in real life. Did you really think Shepard would be that charismatic that he'd change some people's core belief. We all have to work with people we disagree with; we just don't have to bang them. I think the clash of ideologies made the game more realistic.

This 100%. It's realistic to have people with opposing views to you. You know, like real life and all.

 

[ThatLankyBastard]

Some people actually enjoyed those characters, so it's understandable as to why they put them back in...

Besides, I don't think it's gonna change my team any...

Tali, Liara
Tali, Legion
Tali, Garrus

... It's gonna be FAN-tastic!

 

[RowdyRodimus]

They might as well scrap the game, someone on the internet doesn't like a choice they made. Damn those designers for not calling each and every person who plans to buy the game and make a special copy just for them. Once you get out of your hugbox and have your juicy juice I'm sure you'll get over their choices.

 

[VaughanyT]

I dont think I'd be annoyed if potentially all of the previous crewmates returned for 3. Yea, like a lot of people, I used Garrus and Wrex a lot in 1 and in 2 I mixed it up a lot because they were all useful. I found every one of their stories/conversations/personalities engaging and to be fair to BioWare, characters like Ashley and Kaiden did remind us that Sheppard was Alliance before he became a hero, he still has those roots. Just my opinion though.

 

[Souplex]

I guess part of me was just really looking forward to the return of ME2 characters and/or the implementation of new characters, and I'm seriously wondering how possible this is when it seems that we've already filled half a roster with old characters.

This is why they need to lose Tali and Garrus. I like them and all, but we need to give other Turians and Quarians a chance, and Bioware seems to have a one of each type of minority rule.

Have they mentioned anything about female Turians or was that a load of tosh? It would be interesting to see how that would work

Turians are bug reptiles. Females wouldn't have breasts. I bet you've already encountered plenty and just didn't know it.

But surely they would have some sort of feminine characteristics, like I remember Garrus discussing him getting it on with a fellow female Turian in his combat training, but if there was/were female Turains encountered, then I would expect they have some kind of feminine characteristic that defines them differently (different tone of voice, different body shape p.s. I don't need to see breasts the size of melons to realize it's a female but considering this bollywood look-a-like the OP has posted is Bioware's doing I'm glad I can be the sanctimonious little shit)

According to the canon comics the only difference is a slight lack of facial ridges

Exactly.

What's the gender?
If you weren't told in advance what sorts of features to look for you'd have no clue. For all you know you've encountered plenty of female Turians.

 

[Misho-]

*Mass Effect SPOILERS to follow*

Alright, so I was just on the Mass Effect wikia, as after watching a friend play Arrival, I was curious as to what was known about potential party members in ME3. After several paragraphs of perusing I came upon this frightening detail: Both Kaiden and Ashley can be recruited.

Really? I mean, honestly. For starters, it's one thing to recycle characters (especially those that PS3 players will not have much insight into) from older titles. But it's a completely different story when you include the emo Kaiden, who never ceased to complain about his bio-implants, and the disturbingly racist/xenophobic Ashley (who has likely formed the galactic equivalent of the KKK since we last left her).

In fact, my only moral struggle in Mass Effect 1 was deciding if I was a bad person for wanting to abandon both of them on that planet (whose name escapes me).

Look, I get that it's difficult to bring in characters from ME2, based on the fact that (again, correct me if I'm wrong) you could have killed most/all of them off at the conclusion of the title. Considering how likable some of these individuals were, this might have been a mistake. I get the whole "this game has consequences" emphasis, but an unintended one might have been preventing any of these characters from joining your party in ME3.

Thoughts? Do you think characters from ME2 will be included? If so, who should be? Also, what do you think about the inclusions mentioned above from ME1?

I just wanted to say... Altho' both are going to be in the game... You can't recruit them both.

One or the other dies in ME1, which carries over ME2, which will definetly carry over to ME3.

Also the taste on companions is really relly diverse. That's why there are so many! At the end Bioware will probably use the metrics they've collected from ME1 and ME2 to see which companions were used the most and which ones will make it to the sequel.

Some might not make it not because of exclusion but rather because of your actions...

Say you killed Wrex in ME1 (no spoilers there, the game came out way too long ago). But he was confirmed to come out in ME3... So altho' he may be on the disc, he won't be in your game... So you will probably get another Krogan... Grunt you might say (but say Grunt also died in the suicide mission)... So what then? Bioware will probably have a krogan back up plan for that as well as to not deprive the krogan unit altogether.

The thing I want to actually know the most is... (SPOILERS) if Shepard dies on the suicide mission... Then... Who is going to be your character in ME3? Are they going to revive him/her again? Or the new mysterious kid (James something) will become his replacement?


PS: Yeah, I agree Ashley is really xenophobic... Maybe she will get a chance to atone?

 

[Saviordd1]

I guess part of me was just really looking forward to the return of ME2 characters and/or the implementation of new characters, and I'm seriously wondering how possible this is when it seems that we've already filled half a roster with old characters.

This is why they need to lose Tali and Garrus. I like them and all, but we need to give other Turians and Quarians a chance, and Bioware seems to have a one of each type of minority rule.

Have they mentioned anything about female Turians or was that a load of tosh? It would be interesting to see how that would work

Turians are bug reptiles. Females wouldn't have breasts. I bet you've already encountered plenty and just didn't know it.

But surely they would have some sort of feminine characteristics, like I remember Garrus discussing him getting it on with a fellow female Turian in his combat training, but if there was/were female Turains encountered, then I would expect they have some kind of feminine characteristic that defines them differently (different tone of voice, different body shape p.s. I don't need to see breasts the size of melons to realize it's a female but considering this bollywood look-a-like the OP has posted is Bioware's doing I'm glad I can be the sanctimonious little shit)

According to the canon comics the only difference is a slight lack of facial ridges

Exactly.

What's the gender?
If you weren't told in advance what sorts of features to look for you'd have no clue. For all you know you've encountered plenty of female Turians.

That would be a valid point if Bioware hadent said point blank that we haven't seen female turians, same goes for volus, drell, and salarian

 

[Piscivore]

Honestly, as long as Tali and Grunt make it into ME3(and by make it in I mean follow me throughout the whole game) I'll be totally satisfied. Thane would be a nice addition, and I'd like an opportunity to correct the mistake of allowing Ashley to live but Tali and Grunt were by far the big fish of the game for me.

In the event that Tali'Zorah is not in ME3 in a major capacity, I'll be starting a new thread on where the staff of bioware live and how effective their home security is...

Actually, I don't think they will be in the game as game-long squadmates, but they'll definitely be in. My conception is they'll be rallying their faction to support you, so maybe you'll have 1 mission wherein they are in your squad so you can help unite the faction or something like that. Granted, that's just my uninformed ideas, but I think it sounds good.

I think you've just broken my Tali bound heart...