Awful Characters Find Their Way Into ME3

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AgDr_ODST

Cortana's guardian
Oct 22, 2009
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Oh Hallelujah Ashley's back! I've never lost a wink over leaving Kaiden on Virmire and now I think I'll sleep better knowing that she's back! And as for the 'racism' I understood where she was coming from regarding that. Only now my problem is that I'll have to pick between her and Tali if they're both romance options/
 

Sniper Team 4

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Apr 28, 2010
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I didn't like either of them as much as I liked the rest of the crew, but you seem to have a very liberal idea of what "Emo" and "Racist" means. Kaiden suffers from intense pain on a daily basis. Ash has been black listed because of aliens' actions, something that is not her fault, so of course she's a bit resentful. If you take her on the quest where you talk to the Earth First party, then you get to see what real racists look like, and (not shockingly) Ash does not side with and even tells them to shut up.
 

CharrHearted

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Aug 20, 2010
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As long as grunt, garrus and Mordin are in it, i'l be happy just the same.

also capatcha gave me a maths sum... X_X
 

Vrex360

Badass Alien
Mar 2, 2009
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You know?
I really and honestly did not like Liara in the first game.
Okay that's a bit of an understatement, let me try again.
After a few conversations with Liara I was seriously considering slitting my wrists.

I did not like her, I found her annoying, boring and thought she had the personality and backbone of a bowl of soup. She seemed to exist solely to be a love interest and never seemed to evolve past that. I also subsequently resented all the extra attention she got over the rest of the characters in later Mass Effect media.
But you know what?
I sucked it up. I dealt with the fact that a character I didn't like very much was popular. I didn't understand it but I didn't question it and I didn't demand Liara fall into a star approaching supernova so that I would never have to hear her meak monotone voice again. I dealt with the fact that Liara was a major part of the game and I was happy for her fanbase that they got to see the character they liked return to the game.

Please extend the same curtosy to us Ashley and Kaidan fans. We've been waiting so long for some kind of recognition by Bioware that the characters hadn't been forgotten and that we would get to see them return just like everyone else.
And finally, they have given us confirmation. A light has come at the end of the tunnel and we who have waited so long have finally been granted a reprieve. Ashley has been confirmed as a squadmate and she's looking very sexy. Kaidan has returned as a squadmate and he looks very badass. For us, this is a great monumental moment and while it's true I'm not overly satisfied with Ashley's new look it would take her being a necromorph for me to ever not think of her a virtual goddess.

All I'm saying is, can you just try and be nice and deal with it? Sometimes people like characters you don't. This is a fact of life, it's no reason to demand that said characters be removed from the game.

Also no, Ashley is NOT racist. And while I'm here, Kaidan is anything BUT emo.
 

jh322

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May 14, 2008
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DeadSpaced said:
*Mass Effect SPOILERS to follow*

Alright, so I was just on the Mass Effect wikia, as after watching a friend play Arrival, I was curious as to what was known about potential party members in ME3. After several paragraphs of perusing I came upon this frightening detail: Both Kaiden and Ashley can be recruited.

Really? I mean, honestly. For starters, it's one thing to recycle characters (especially those that PS3 players will not have much insight into) from older titles. But it's a completely different story when you include the emo Kaiden, who never ceased to complain about his bio-implants, and the disturbingly racist/xenophobic Ashley (who has likely formed the galactic equivalent of the KKK since we last left her).

In fact, my only moral struggle in Mass Effect 1 was deciding if I was a bad person for wanting to abandon both of them on that planet (whose name escapes me).

Look, I get that it's difficult to bring in characters from ME2, based on the fact that (again, correct me if I'm wrong) you could have killed most/all of them off at the conclusion of the title. Considering how likable some of these individuals were, this might have been a mistake. I get the whole "this game has consequences" emphasis, but an unintended one might have been preventing any of these characters from joining your party in ME3.

Thoughts? Do you think characters from ME2 will be included? If so, who should be? Also, what do you think about the inclusions mentioned above from ME1?
Not everybody hated those two. Personally, I'm waiting for Ashley to come back, and didn't get my mack on with any of the ME2s ladies in case that would make her hate my shep somehow in ME3. I'm glad to see her coming back - she was always one of my favourites.

I think from ME2 we're going to be seeing quite a few characters again, but only if you saved them: for example, I left kaidan behind in ME1, and he was still dead in ME2, but I saved Ashley, and she was still alive. Bioware have shown that they can quite easily construct these situations, so don't think just because some people may have killed their entire crew, that yours will be dead in ME3 too.
 

Vrex360

Badass Alien
Mar 2, 2009
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Kortney said:
Distrusting the opposite race for no logical, valid reason=racist. It's a fine line.
There is a logical and perfectly valid reason though. The main reason Ashley distrusts alien is because she imagines that, when push comes to shove every race will look out for the interests of their own over others. She argues not to mistreat aliens or turn them down as allies but not to also expect aliens to help out in a crisis and instead should be prepared and capable to do things like this on their own.
If you ask me it's a very logical way to look at things. After all the Council have a history of letting problems go on outside of their territory for long perios of time, only stepping in when it endangers them. Quarians have a history of being largely self serving and being too busy with their own problems to bother with the problems of others. Krogans have the reputation of jsut being violent with no interest in helping so much as causing more problems.
Batarians and Geth are isolationists.

It makes sense to argue that these races might not rush to the aid of humans in the event of a disaster, especially not if that same disaster also effects them (the alien race in question).
Think about it, if a giant earthquake caused disaster to both Australia and China, who do you think the Chinese government would be more interested in helping out?

As for Ashley?
This is a mindset that comes from her family name being ground through the dirt due to her granfather being the only human ever to surrender to an alien race. She's had to fight to get where she is and does everything she can to rank up but is held down by the bad family history and subsequently lack of personal experience. Hence she's reverted to the three basic principles that can apply to meeting new cultures:

1. They will look out for their own before us.
2. They didn't get to the apex of their glory by being friendly. Wimps do not become top dogs.
3. They will assume the same rules apply to us.

Also in regards to all this, Ashley says and does numerous things to contradict the idea of her being racist, for instance she never idealizes humans as being superior to aliens, she never argues that aliens are lesser beings.
On Virmire she has no complaint working with the Salarian team and even volunteers for the job. She also hopes for improved relations between Humans and Quarians thanks to Tali helping with Saren. She also despises groups like Terra Firma and will vocalize strongly against them. Also despite showing hostility to Liara, she still notably shows sympathy towards her in regards to the death of her mother (hinting to Shepard to go talk to Liara because 'it's gotta hurt').

Point is, Ashley never had the true irrational bloodied hatred that everyone seems to think she has. It all comes down to practical concerns.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
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DeadSpaced said:
Even if any of that true ... your point being? Are you saying that they are terrible characters because Ashley is racist(...how again...?) because comments and concepts of xenophobia shouldn't even be approached in games ... or are you saying they are terrible characters because they have baggage that has nothing to do with the game and that every person with emotional and psychological baggage should be exempt from the game?
 

Kortney

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Nov 2, 2009
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Vrex360 said:
If I said to you that the people in Sudan shouldn't be helped because I imagine that black people will look out for their own interests over white people - I'd be a racist. Being a racist doesn't require deep seeded hatred of the other race. I can empathise with her and understand she isn't evil, but she still illogically views other races differently to how she views herself. Xenophobe. Racist. Whatever you want to call it.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Okay wow. Just... Wow. Lots to say about that rant.

1. I hate to sound fanboyish, but screw the PS3 players in this case. Bioware shouldn't gimp their possible character pool and disappoint lots of fans who have been playing on PC or 360 because some people on the PS3 won't know who Ashley and Kaiden are aside from one cutscene in ME2. Besides, if they're both as bad as you feel they are, they aren't really missing anything by not knowing them anyway right? Which brings me to...

2. You have shown a poor understanding of both characters. I get the impression that you never really talked to either of them very much. I'm sure others have explained them properly by now, so I'm not going to get into it right now (plus I'm too tired to write that much at the moment).

3. Recycling characters? Really, you went there? It's called a sequel and in this case, a trilogy. Bringing back established characters isn't "recycling", it's continuing a story. I mean damn, if bringing them back from ME1 and a scene from ME2 is recycling, how come you aren't raging about them being so lazy that they recycled Shepard again to be the main character? Sheesh.
 

plugav

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Mar 2, 2011
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I haven't finished ME1 yet (I've finished ME2, though), but I certainly hope all of the characters who survive the first two parts will make at least some appearance in the last.

As for the war over Ashley's xenophobia, maybe she is somewhat xenophobic. But that's what makes her a believable character. She's a soldier forced into an alliance with quite recent enemies, who also happen to look down on humans. The Hundred Years' war ended nearly six centuries ago and the French and British still dislike each other (or at least the stereotype prevails). How do you expect humans to get over the (unprovoked) First Contact War after just three decades?

Also, it's pretty clear from the start of ME1 that the Council doesn't give a flying f*ck about human colonies being under attack, so that doesn't help. Of course, no one should carry their distrust for a state's policies over to the inhabitants of that state, but this is Mass Effect, not My Little Pony (despite the ridiculously coloured uniforms).
 

adrian_exec

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Apr 5, 2009
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Personally I don't care of any of my companions in Mass Effect 3 as long as I have Tali and so far no news if she will make a come-back, crossing fingers that she will.
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
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Kortney said:
Shock and Awe said:
2. I am tired of saying this, Distrustful =/= Racist. If you look beyond just the fact that she does not trust the other races to much you will actually see that the reason for it is not that bad. If you also talked to her on Horizen she straight up says that she is not the biggest fan of aliens but Cerberus was extremists. How about you think about something before you go off the deep end?
Distrusting the opposite race for no logical, valid reason=racist. It's a fine line.
rac·ism
 
?noun

1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
1. That is not racism, its prejudice, which happens to be far off from racism.

2. She actually does have a pretty logical reason for being so.

a. Turians tried to wipe them out

b. Batarians are still sending pirates at Humanity and the council does nothing

c. She has little to no experience with aliens because of her assignments

d. She does not distrust aliens on a personal level, only a whole, or their governments.

e. Her views fall more in line with realism than many act like they do. Thinking other races' governments will look after themselves first isn't exactly the more extreme thing.

f.she does so many things that go against supposed 'racism' over the course of the game there really is no point in counting.
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
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Kortney said:
Vrex360 said:
If I said to you that the people in Sudan shouldn't be helped because I imagine that black people will look out for their own interests over white people - I'd be a racist. Being a racist doesn't require deep seeded hatred of the other race. I can empathise with her and understand she isn't evil, but she still illogically views other races differently to how she views herself. Xenophobe. Racist. Whatever you want to call it.
Thats not a very good example, seeing as she does not distrust species for the sake they are other species. It is because they are foreign governments that will look after themselves first. Its the exact same how most people will trust their own government before others. You have to remember that she was almost never was prejudice against individuals, mostly their governments.
 

AVATAR_RAGE

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May 28, 2009
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Yeah ME2 characters will be in it. Bioware are merely making sure people can't go "where is Ashley/Kaiden/[Insert character name]" again.

Seriously these guys just cannot win, not matter what. Someone somewhere will complain about what they are doing with one of the their games. Poor Bioware.
 

Avatar Roku

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Jul 9, 2008
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Vrex360 said:
Kortney said:
Distrusting the opposite race for no logical, valid reason=racist. It's a fine line.
There is a logical and perfectly valid reason though. The main reason Ashley distrusts alien is because she imagines that, when push comes to shove every race will look out for the interests of their own over others. She argues not to mistreat aliens or turn them down as allies but not to also expect aliens to help out in a crisis and instead should be prepared and capable to do things like this on their own.
If you ask me it's a very logical way to look at things. After all the Council have a history of letting problems go on outside of their territory for long perios of time, only stepping in when it endangers them. Quarians have a history of being largely self serving and being too busy with their own problems to bother with the problems of others. Krogans have the reputation of jsut being violent with no interest in helping so much as causing more problems.
Batarians and Geth are isolationists.

It makes sense to argue that these races might not rush to the aid of humans in the event of a disaster, especially not if that same disaster also effects them (the alien race in question).
Think about it, if a giant earthquake caused disaster to both Australia and China, who do you think the Chinese government would be more interested in helping out?

As for Ashley?
This is a mindset that comes from her family name being ground through the dirt due to her granfather being the only human ever to surrender to an alien race. She's had to fight to get where she is and does everything she can to rank up but is held down by the bad family history and subsequently lack of personal experience. Hence she's reverted to the three basic principles that can apply to meeting new cultures:

1. They will look out for their own before us.
2. They didn't get to the apex of their glory by being friendly. Wimps do not become top dogs.
3. They will assume the same rules apply to us.

Also in regards to all this, Ashley says and does numerous things to contradict the idea of her being racist, for instance she never idealizes humans as being superior to aliens, she never argues that aliens are lesser beings.
On Virmire she has no complaint working with the Salarian team and even volunteers for the job. She also hopes for improved relations between Humans and Quarians thanks to Tali helping with Saren. She also despises groups like Terra Firma and will vocalize strongly against them. Also despite showing hostility to Liara, she still notably shows sympathy towards her in regards to the death of her mother (hinting to Shepard to go talk to Liara because 'it's gotta hurt').

Point is, Ashley never had the true irrational bloodied hatred that everyone seems to think she has. It all comes down to practical concerns.
Thank you Vrex. I thought I was going insane, because Ashley made perfect sense to me. I didn't agree with her, but her viewpoint made perfect sense.
 

MasterOfWorlds

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Oct 1, 2010
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I was so pissed when Ashley didn't join me in ME2 when I had the chance to talk to her. I'm glad that we'll be able to find out what's going on with our respective people in ME3.

Also, the fact that Ashely hates Cerberus should show that she's not quite as racist/xenophobic as you might think. She's not against other species being there, she's just a little sore that we're not #1 anymore.
 

veryboringfact

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Apr 2, 2009
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Alot of people in this thread seem to be more pent up on the fact the OP didn't like either Ashley or Kaidan and ignoring the fact their presence in the game doesn't neccessarily mean you have to use them - or like them - and I look forward to that annoying pink power-ranger finding out i cheated on her with someone so far her intellectual and physical superior she will have no choice but to cry in her corner until the end of the game.. and who knows.. maybe we'll actually get to kill Ashley ourselves this time instead of leaving her to die like a martyr. Shooting her right in her fat xenophobic little face would make it worth me replaying all the previous games just to make sure she's alive in me3.