Bad News, Everyone

[Marik2]

If you?ve done any research on Incels, you quickly realise there is a whole other world out there

Okay I've heard that phrase. Involuntary celibate, yes? People who can't get laid/relationships. Is that a male only thing? I mean surely there are women out there who want boy/girlfriends who can't get any? Do they count as incels, or merely singles, and Incel is a movement?

Also if a guy isn't dating, is he automatically an incel, or again, just single? I don't like the idea of 'being single, but wanting a relationship' being seen as both a political movement and party.

Here is a good video essay on what incels are and why this is an internet community thing.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I bet that the liberal SJW cuckspiracy is behind this.

I guess I'll just have to stay home and complain about women to myself!

Well, it?ll save you two thousand bucks at least so you spend it on manly things like dumbbells and shotgun shells.

I always could use that $2000 to get another gun. Ya never know when yet another one might be needed.

The more I see your posts the more I think you're commiting your forum identity to one of the greatest method actor bits I've ever seen, because your posts when you're taking the piss are virtually unrecognizeable from any of your serious opinions.

I'm on so many levels of irony, I don't even know what my own opinions are anymore.

Except my opinions on various territorial disputes. Those opinions I hold strongly.

 

[Schadrach]

I always could use that $2000 to get another gun. Ya never know when yet another one might be needed.

I'd have thought that $2000 could get you a gun and a very nice holiday. Although might have problems enjoying the holiday just at the moment.

It's enough for a really nice gun (say a PS90, which is basically the optimal gun for a spree shooter and clocks in at $1500 or so new), a few of the largest magazine available for it and enough ammo to shoot anyone who comes after your TP supply.

Circling back to the forceful thing, and growing out of the Pick Up movement, Chads apparently only treat women terribly, thus to get to potential Chadhood, you NEED to treat women terribly. Otherwise, they won't sleep with you

Just remember, when they talk about "women", they mean the sorts of women that PUA tactics target and often work on. Who on the whole are really shitty people.

 

[Terminal Blue]

This isn't really an 'incel' thing, it's a 'red pill' thing. Most of the speakers are married with children, which is played up strongly in the marketing because they're trying to present this as a "pro-family" conference rather than an anti-feminist conference. The image they clearly want to convey is that these nice, family oriented "traditional" men are going to come and tell you how to be their version of the ideal women so you can attract nice traditional men and live in monogamous family bliss like them.

Of course, they kind of dropped the ball on that lie with the speakers.

Mike Cernovich, for example, was charged with raping a woman in college, and ultimately convicted of battery. He openly cheated on his first wife and she ultimately divorced him. He received over a million dollars in the divorce settlement, which is likely still his main source of funding. He's not a wholesome, family values kind of men's rights activist, he's a predator in every sense of the word.

Stephan Molyneux believes that every single problem in society can be traced back to children's relationships with their mothers, and genetically predetermined traits created by women's decisions to reproduce with "assholes". He has stated the belief that there are no good parents, (meaning, specifically, no good mothers, as he seems to view fathers as having no particular role in childrearing). He often encourages young people to sever ties with families without clear evidence of abuse, and has clearly pushed his wife to do the same (which has lead to investigations into her professional conduct). Stephan is also largely supported by his wife's therapy practice.

It does not take much research to dispel the myth that these are wholesome conservative patriarchs who love the traditional family. The only aspect of the traditional family they seem to like is male-dominance.

 

[Kwak]

What, has it been a year already? Could swear this convention was being ridiculed several months ago.

 

[Agema]

Okay I've heard that phrase. Involuntary celibate, yes? People who can't get laid/relationships. Is that a male only thing? I mean surely there are women out there who want boy/girlfriends who can't get any? Do they count as incels, or merely singles, and Incel is a movement?

Also if a guy isn't dating, is he automatically an incel, or again, just single? I don't like the idea of 'being single, but wanting a relationship' being seen as both a political movement and party.

Incels are a specific subgroup of men not having sex identifiable by their anger, frustration and misogyny, who blame women for not sleeping with them.

Although most of them seem to have got to inceldom over time through frustration and bitterness at not getting laid, I suspect they were always misogynistic (not necessarily knowingly). They were unable to learn and develop skills or attitudes conducive to sex and relationships over the years. I also suspect they have excessive ambitions: they want the pretty and popular women who have much better options than them, when if they just wanted to get laid they really needed to lower their expectations.

 

[Trunkage]

This isn't really an 'incel' thing, it's a 'red pill' thing. Most of the speakers are married with children, which is played up strongly in the marketing because they're trying to present this as a "pro-family" conference rather than an anti-feminist conference. The imagine they clearly want to convey is that these nice, family oriented "traditional" men are going to come and tell you how to be their version of the ideal women so you can attract nice traditional men and live in monogamous family bliss like them.

Of course, they kind of dropped the ball on that lie with the speakers.

Mike Cernovich, for example, was charged with raping a woman in college, and ultimately convicted of battery. He openly cheated on his first wife and she ultimately divorced him. He received over a million dollars in the divorce settlement, which is likely still his main source of funding. He's not a wholesome, family values kind of men's rights activist.

He also legally helped one particularly important person in the event that shall not be named. He promoted Pizzagate. He got journalist Sam Seder fired and James Gunn fired (both were rehired a year later) and tried similar things with Trevor Noah and Dan Harmon. He forged letters to try and convict Chuck Schumer of pedophilia

He also thinks semen is mystically addictive and stops women from cheating. He also thinks all cases of rape are just women trying to scam money. He also thinks Cultral Marxists are the cause of porn and masterbation but somehow also sexual puritans.

He's a real stand up guy

 

[Terminal Blue]

Although most of them seem to have got to inceldom over time through frustration and bitterness at not getting laid, I suspect they were always misogynistic (not necessarily knowingly). They were unable to learn and develop skills or attitudes conducive to sex and relationships over the years. I also suspect they have excessive ambitions: they want the pretty and popular women who have much better options than them, when if they just wanted to get laid they really needed to lower their expectations.

One thing I find very interesting about incels is that while their beliefs seems ridiculous, they are clearly reacting to something. They're people who have clearly been catastrophically failed by their own gender ideology, but who for whatever reason are unwilling to give it up or to change their ideas.

Just remember, when they talk about "women", they mean the sorts of women that PUA tactics target and often work on. Who on the whole are really shitty people.

So, I think a key thing we need to realise in order to understand PUAs is that it's not actually a subculture about sleeping with women, it's a subculture about selling the fantasy of sleeping with women to men, whether for personal validation, political advantage or (more sinisterly) for financial gain.

Julian Blanc, for example, isn't going around grabbing women by the throat because it actually gets him laid. He does it because men enjoy the fantasy of being able to physically assault women and then magically breaking their brains so they want to fuck. It turns out, a lot of men are shitty people who enjoy the fantasy of hurting and dominating women more than they enjoy the fantasy of having mutually enjoyable sex with them.

And speaking of Blanc, because his honesty is kind of refreshing.

Spoiler

This is the unfortunate reality behind those "PUA tactics" that "work".

For many women, the bar for how a partner should treat them is only as high as men have treated them in the past, and because (as we've established) men are frequently shitty people, many women simply do not have the perspective to recognise coercive behaviour from the "normal" behaviour of men. What Julian figured out is that if you sexually assault a lone woman in public she will typically not punch you in face. In fact, she'll often react submissively. That's not because you've secretly short-circuited her weak female brain, it's because she's afraid. That fear can also be "tactically" exploited by people who are capable of being slightly more clever about it.

If you are treating someone like shit in order to get sex out of them or to keep them in a relationship, that's not because you're a Chad, it's because you're an abusive shit. The sad reality here is that being an abusive shit is kind of normal if you're a man, and women can't be expected to automatically recognise abusive shittery because, sadly, men just be like that.

And yes, as much as the whole thing creeps me out, a lot of PUAs are not like this and are just doing horny self-help for men with limited social skills, and that's really not the worst, but I also wouldn't really call it "tactics" any more than I'd credit a guide to basketball for telling its readers to practice throwing a ball.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

They're people who have clearly been catastrophically failed by their own gender ideology, but who for whatever reason are unwilling to give it up or to change their ideas.

You'd think, wouldn't you?

He also thinks semen is mystically addictive and stops women from cheating.

Semen needs to be regulated as a controlled substance.

Incels are a specific subgroup of men not having sex identifiable by their anger, frustration and misogyny, who blame women for not sleeping with them.

Yes, it is important to distinguish them from Volcels (Voluntary celibates), or men who choose to abstain from sex for a variety of reasons. Some of these may be MGTOW.
Quite frankly I think it's crazy that all these terms exist in the first place.

 

[McElroy]

They're people who have clearly been catastrophically failed by their own gender ideology, but who for whatever reason are unwilling to give it up or to change their ideas.

I'd say the opposite, they have fundamentally changed their minds about the gender equality that only got them burned. If the unfortunate reaction to it was detrimental only to them I wouldn't give a crap, but the bad examples they set can sometimes sour other people for good.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Stephen 'we only have assholes because women procreate with assholes' Molynuex is one such speaker.

That's not what I use mine for. I can send evidence where required.

 

[Thaluikhain]

They're people who have clearly been catastrophically failed by their own gender ideology, but who for whatever reason are unwilling to give it up or to change their ideas.

I'd say the opposite, they have fundamentally changed their minds about the gender equality that only got them burned. If the unfortunate reaction to it was detrimental only to them I wouldn't give a crap, but the bad examples they set can sometimes sour other people for good.

Generalising, but I don't think it's gender equality that's their issue (they might blame it on gender equality, though). They've just not grown out of their manly fairy tales that won't work whatever system they are in.

 

[Agema]

Yes, it is important to distinguish them from Volcels (Voluntary celibates), or men who choose to abstain from sex for a variety of reasons. Some of these may be MGTOW.
Quite frankly I think it's crazy that all these terms exist in the first place.

I think it's particularly odd considering how many people seem to want to reject labels in society.

But really, it's about community, isn't it? Finding a bunch of like-minded people to share your shit with... and if you want to share misogynistic rage and hatred, there's your buddy group for you.

After that, it is about trying to explain the world around us. Create the term, build up a philosophy and theories around it and an incel (or MGTOW, etc.) transforms himself in his own mind from an embittered sad-sack who can't get laid to a victim of feminist oppression and warrior for a better society. From zero to hero, woo-hah!

 

[McElroy]

I'd say the opposite, they have fundamentally changed their minds about the gender equality that only got them burned.

Generalising, but I don't think it's gender equality that's their issue (they might blame it on gender equality, though). They've just not grown out of their manly fairy tales that won't work whatever system they are in.

I think it makes more sense that they see incel ideology as an alternative. I haven't stumbled upon incels (or people who at least seem to use similar rhetoric) who say that the "Chads" treat women as badly as incels want them treated.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I haven't stumbled upon incels (or people who at least seem to use similar rhetoric) who say that the "Chads" treat women as badly as incels want them treated.

I mean, that's a very low bar.

But a lot of incels do start out as Nice Guys, and their involvement with incel communities stems out of the unhealthy beliefs about women, sex and relationships they adopted as Nice Guys.

 

[Trunkage]

You know, this Red Pill, MWGTOW or Incel thing proves parts of Sarkisian's thesis wrong. She kept stating that the power fantasies for males didn't have a negative effect for men. I say babkas. Media keeps telling men to act a certain way and they get certain rewards. That's not based in reality and a replacement ideology needs to be found. You just cant live without believing things.

He also thinks semen is mystically addictive and stops women from cheating.

Semen needs to be regulated as a controlled substance.

This just makes me think of milking machines and the need to modify them for men.

Incels are a specific subgroup of men not having sex identifiable by their anger, frustration and misogyny, who blame women for not sleeping with them.

Yes, it is important to distinguish them from Volcels (Voluntary celibates), or men who choose to abstain from sex for a variety of reasons. Some of these may be MGTOW.
Quite frankly I think it's crazy that all these terms exist in the first place.

I dont know if you noticed, people like being part of a group. And the only way to make a group is to start ostracising others. You can label which group you morally approve of to get virtue signalling points.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

This just makes me think of milking machines and the need to modify them for men.

There are artists who have produced images of what such a machine might look like. Just don't search for them when you're at work.

I dont know if you noticed, people like being part of a group.

Yep, even when that group is destructive to itself and the welfare of its members.

 

[Agema]

I think it makes more sense that they see incel ideology as an alternative. I haven't stumbled upon incels (or people who at least seem to use similar rhetoric) who say that the "Chads" treat women as badly as incels want them treated.

There's a saying that a cynic is a romantic who's had their rose tinted-specatacles broken.

Someone may be a "nice guy", but this doesn't mean they really understand or relate well to other people. Niceness doesn't necessarily meet all another person's emotional needs, particularly if they lack the intuition to realise what another person's emotional needs are. People like that might be "nice" - well intentioned, kind, generous, etc. - but they aren't going to supply a fulfilling relationship.

And yeah, they might fail themselves to some heavy-degree bitterness and anger.

You know, this Red Pill, MWGTOW or Incel thing proves parts of Sarkisian's thesis wrong. She kept stating that the power fantasies for males didn't have a negative effect for men.

No surprises there: she's hardy an intellectual heavyweight.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

This isn't really an 'incel' thing, it's a 'red pill' thing. Most of the speakers are married with children, which is played up strongly in the marketing because they're trying to present this as a "pro-family" conference rather than an anti-feminist conference. The image they clearly want to convey is that these nice, family oriented "traditional" men are going to come and tell you how to be their version of the ideal women so you can attract nice traditional men and live in monogamous family bliss like them.

Of course, they kind of dropped the ball on that lie with the speakers.

Mike Cernovich, for example, was charged with raping a woman in college, and ultimately convicted of battery. He openly cheated on his first wife and she ultimately divorced him. He received over a million dollars in the divorce settlement, which is likely still his main source of funding. He's not a wholesome, family values kind of men's rights activist, he's a predator in every sense of the word.

Stephan Molyneux believes that every single problem in society can be traced back to children's relationships with their mothers, and genetically predetermined traits created by women's decisions to reproduce with "assholes". He has stated the belief that there are no good parents, (meaning, specifically, no good mothers, as he seems to view fathers as having no particular role in childrearing). He often encourages young people to sever ties with families without clear evidence of abuse, and has clearly pushed his wife to do the same (which has lead to investigations into her professional conduct). Stephan is also largely supported by his wife's therapy practice.

It does not take much research to dispel the myth that these are wholesome conservative patriarchs who love the traditional family. The only aspect of the traditional family they seem to like is male-dominance.

You know the thing I find baffling as shit about that part about Cernovitch?s implied views on men not handling any aspect of child rearing is that men?s groups who are doing work for men worth a squirt of piss have been trying to get it known just how much fathers do want to be involved in raising their children. Like, way to spit in the faces of your fellows there Stephen, on top of just being pathetic.

 

[Agema]

You know the thing I find baffling as shit about that part about Cernovitch?s implied views on men not handling any aspect of child rearing is that men?s groups who are doing work for men worth a squirt of piss have been trying to get it known just how much fathers do want to be involved in raising their children. Like, way to spit in the faces of your fellows there Stephen, on top of just being pathetic.

Different branches of the MRM, really. At one end, some MRAs are rethinking masculinity and society in ways that for the accept the last few decades of change, then through a spectrum to those who want to revert societal roles to the 1950s or so.

People like Cernovich and Molyneux are shitty human beings on many levels. I don't doubt that they do believe much of the unpleasant stuff they come out with, but I also think a certain amount of it is self-aggrandising performance as they see angry, anti-feminist men as a bunch of people they can exploit for influence and money. Molyneux apparently used to be an Objectivist, so it's not hard to see where he got his inspiration from...

I am fascinated to know what the spouses of people like that think. I'm aware that Molyneux's wife had something to do with forming his bizarre ideas and cult, but she also seems to have consequently expressed regret and distanced herself (potentially for facing professional sanction over it). But they see their spouse come out with that sort of shit... do they believe it? Do they not care and overlook it because in ways that matter to them the relationship works? Are they controlled and manipulated in what amounts to an abusive relationship?