Bargains Are for Cheaters

[ASnogarD]

Question: Why is this always hyped as the DEVELOPER getting screwed out of cash, poor guy who slaved and bled over the game ... the likes of Kotick and his cronies havent seemed to have done badly for themselves ? You would imagine used sales would of made them equally poor as the poor developer, yeah ?

Lets be honest, the developer gets a fraction of the profits the publisher and its board gets, the majority of the dough goes to the suits end of, and THEY want even 'moar' thats why its a big deal.
Quit the bleeding heart routine, the suits want more and its a lot harder to 'market' rich suits losing cash than it is to portray the developers.

This is reality, the dev team get shafted by the publishers, a large portion of the team get laid off till the next contract / develeopment and the suits pick up the lions share... because they 'invested' in the developement.
Honestly the suit inflated the costs of develpment with costly over the top marketing, with too many managers ruling thier little domains, with insisting on using star quality resources whereas in house would of done equally well...

... I mean do we really give a toss that the actor in Star Wars voiced the NPC at winterdark and bought your rotten rats testicles ?

I dont buy used games as I dont have a console and PC used games market doesnt exist really... but I am sick of all this exposure to the evils of used games stealing cash out of the poor developers wallet, nearly as bad a piracy... bull fucking shit.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I was under the impression that like any creative media, the original artists (in this case, the developers) are only entitled to something miniscule like 5% of game sales, and most of their revenue comes from direct cash advances from the publishers. The bulk of the money from game sales goes to publishers, hence, they, not developers, are the ones complaining about being hurt by used game sales. And to them I say cry me a river.

While it may be true that publishers take more than their fair share of income on a title, the publishers do still need income to pay developers to make more games.

I could wave my magic wand and wipe out the used game market, and I guarantee that publishers would not stop short-changing game developers: nor would they cease to look for any opportunity to cut their expenditure on development. I see this whole used-game fiasco for what it is: a bunch of developers attempting to find another way to increase their profits. If they had their way, you wouldn't even be able to lend games.

 

[Fearzone]

Yeah, that's funny. Game companies can always shame gamers into paying for their products. That's been working great for years.

 

[Andronicus]

Meh, brick-and-mortar stores in AU are beyond retarded most of the time anyway, so I usually only go there to look rather than buy; most of my purchases are either digital or from online stores, usually from Britain. Seriously, I've seen stores offering the used copies of games for more than what it would cost for a brand new copy. If this sounds good to you, factor in that Australia gets some of the most overblown prices in the world anyway, and all you have left are preowned games that don't even deserve the shelf-space.

Case in point:
I got Borderlands online for ~AU$35.
Brand new copy in store (one week later) costs AU$75
Preowned copy, same store, same time costs AU$95
I kid you not.

Edit: and by the way, that copy of Borderlands I got? Brand new.

 

[SirPumpkinLongshanks]

In the Playstation era many new games would go for around $40. That's my ceiling. I refuse to pay more than that unless it's a game I'm absolutely sure I'll love. I got a Super Nintendo in 1996; I'm no stranger to hopping on a technology right when it becomes obsolete and picking up everything that's worthwhile. Prices will come down, it's just a question of whether the developer will make anything off me by the time they do.

I'm lucky that most of the games pushing artistic boundaries today aren't big-budget 60 dollar titles. At least I can support innovation while still being a tightwad. Hell, I doubt I'll ever play most of the big blockbusters with the excess of shooters and linear 4-6 hour games. Games are a lot prettier but the gameplay options are far more anemic than they used to be. I like platformers, I like RPGs, I like strategy, I like side-scrolling shooters. I can find that stuff, certainly, but not in the quantity I'd like. There's a reason I haven't upgraded from the PS2. This is another generation where I'm gonna come in at the end and feast on the spoils. (And in the meantime borrow, borrow, borrow.) I don't see a worthwhile reason to do otherwise.

 

[L34dP1LL]

Shamus, you win. So much. I would hug you if you were here. You totally hit the nail on the head with this one. I should also point out that if you want to discourage used games, you better have a damn good recycling program. What am I supposed to do with that disc when I'm done with it? Throw it in a landfill?

Sell it directly to someone else, not a store. Cut out the middle man.

 

[Johnteerules]

Ben"Yahtzee"Croshaw

 

[Cynical skeptic]

Oh shut up. You got about half the issue and you're speaking out your ass on the rest, as usual.

Since they're inextricably linked, I'll just jump straight into piracy.

The only type of piracy the film industry cares about is pre-release stuff. Things that jump the lines of "graduated billing" you describe. Screeners released online before films are even in theaters, while they're in theaters, or before they're on DVD. They don't care much about cam and telesync releases, as the quality there is always near complete ass. So the quality loss fits within their graduated billing lines... whether they like it or not.

The reason film only really cares about one type of piracy is most of the money in film is in ticket sales. Always was, always will be. Even if everyone and their brother has bluray players hooked up to 7.1 systems and 60" 1080p screens, the theater is still a better experience... at least after you feel you've paid back that still pretty sizable investment to sitting on your ass.

Music also has a type of graduated billing. If you care about the band, you pay for concert tickets and merchandise. The labels aren't happy about it, but the rest of the music industry has accepted mp3s, cds, legitimate or not, are simply advertising for concerts. If someone pays, gravy. But what they're selling are concert seats.

Video gaming... can't really have any sort of graduated billing. Theres nothing comparable to theaters or concerts, the products aren't very long (and still aren't priced at ~$7 an hour, like new DVDs or $15 an hour like some blurries), and don't depreciate in any form. A game is as good the day it's released as 20 years later. Collectors editions are mostly bullshit sold at the wrong end of the "care" schedule. Demand for the things increases as the IP gains popularity, so the guys who bought them early and don't want them anymore sell them for 2-4 times what they paid on ebay. Kinda like music, in that respect. So logically, collectors editions should hit the shelves after people already love the game or just not hit the shelves at all in the case of some games.

Basically, the entire video game business model is a confused mess taking all the wrong cues from music, film, and television. As far as that "price reduction" where does that come from? It sure as fuck isn't going to come out of the retailer's end. They'll just laugh, raise prices, and act like you're the asshole (not saying thats what happened with activision, but...). So that means either the publisher or the developer has to take a smaller cut... while the retailer gets the same amount of money. Theres also no guarantee the retailer will actually pass on their savings. So everyone who matters gets even less money, and the retailers are just "honest businessmen"...

But one thing isn't confused. Gamestop. Any dealing with gamestop benefits only gamestop. Consumers lose, publishers lose, developers lose, traders lose. They are currently in the bussiness of "heads I win, tails you lose" and doing extremely well for a completely cancerous parasite sucking the life out of the industry.

You can also stop bringing up any other "used" product. Doing so simply makes you look stupid. Car manufacturers make most of their money on maintenance. Selling "official" parts to "official" dealerships for people's massively overpriced maintenance/repair calls. Not to mention, used cars are regulated. A car must pass inspection before it can be sold. Getting cars to that point means buying parts from manufacturers. So manufacturers make money no matter what. Anything else... I've got an old trinitron sitting on my desk. I bought it for $20 five years ago. If it loses power or signal for any (and I mean any) length of time, I have to break out a hair dryer and heat up the back for 20-30 minutes. I know its only got one or two power failures before it never turns on again.

 

[tunderball]

I recently bought Dragon Age Origins, my friend had been going on at me for ages saying it's the best game ever you have to play this. Suddenly I find myself with a gap in my life over the summer so I think what about that Dragon game I've heard so much about so while I'm in town I decide to pop into my local GAME and check it out.

£45 they wanted for it and I'm not being funny but thats a lot for a game that's been out for a while, but the worst thing is in the same shop is a pre-owned copy for £9.99. Which am I going to buy?

 

[Rad Party God]

I was simply dissapointed the very moment I ran up my 360 for the first time. I bought it from a friend and I bought the games on my own, the only "new" games I had were Gears of War 2 and Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection. I got bored of it (the 360) and I needed money pretty bad, I was cornered to selling my 360 and I did it. Now, I still need money, but not as badly as the past week. I even borrowed a couple of Steam discounts on the way.

I'm not cheating on Microsoft or anyone else, It's just business and I think (in my case) even the need for the money.
I'm on a strict diet of (cheap) PC (Steam) and NDS games right now and that's all what I need (plus food, washing my clothes, paying my rent...), until I get a new job.

 

[mjp19xx]

This article is absolutely right. If you want to beat used game sales, you have to cut down the profit potential. I have bought a lot of games that were heavily discounted on Steam that I would have never purchased at their retail price. I didn't pay much, but the developers and publishers made money they never would have otherwise. Developers are not the problem, consumers are not the problem and retailers are not the problem. Publishers are the problem.

 

[StarCecil]

As a console gamer for whom Steam is simply not an option, I love used games. I can get a game I want for half or less. I've never bought a game when it first came out. I wait, see if it's any good, if it has anything I want, then I buy it.

As far as that goes, I don't owe the Developer a damn thing. I only owe me. I'm the consumer, I'm the one they want to buy the game. If they want me to buy it new, they need to give me a reason. I don't care about "supporting the developer". I care only about getting the best deal I can.

If I pay $60 for something I could pay $30, I've wasted thirty whole dollars. Likewise for movies, books, even cars. So if THQ wants to me to buy a game new then they need to give me a real reason to.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

its somewhat ironic that thq is whining about this when they have some of the most agressive pricing Ive seen, meaning they seem more then willing to cut down the price of a new game or to put stuff up on steam sale or give consumers more shit for free then really almost anyone else

I don't know if it is just them. I bought Red Faction Guerrilla for $10 new at a Wal-mart. Saved me about $8 over buying it used at Gamestop.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

I recently bought Dragon Age Origins, my friend had been going on at me for ages saying it's the best game ever you have to play this. Suddenly I find myself with a gap in my life over the summer so I think what about that Dragon game I've heard so much about so while I'm in town I decide to pop into my local GAME and check it out.

£45 they wanted for it and I'm not being funny but thats a lot for a game that's been out for a while, but the worst thing is in the same shop is a pre-owned copy for £9.99. Which am I going to buy?

Been hearing about game. Its actually not part of the problem. They price pre-owned sales fairly, trade-ins fairly, and new copies fairly. They likely took a loss on that £10 sale.

The more I hear, the more It seems the issue of retailers being "parasites and thieves" (to quote a thread closer to where this actually started) is utterly exclusive to gamestop. To say, the issue isn't you selling your stuff on ebay or amazon. Starting to think the reason no one comes out and says, clearly and concisely, "gamestop are a bunch of fucking theives. Everyone else is cool," is that would be slander, and they'd get sued, and gamestop would get even more money from being a completely worthless tumor on the left ventricle of the video game industry.

 

[Worgen]

its somewhat ironic that thq is whining about this when they have some of the most agressive pricing Ive seen, meaning they seem more then willing to cut down the price of a new game or to put stuff up on steam sale or give consumers more shit for free then really almost anyone else

I don't know if it is just them. I bought Red Faction Guerrilla for $10 new at a Wal-mart. Saved me about $8 over buying it used at Gamestop.

I got red faction guerrilla for free after I bought Darksiders

 

[Fatal-X]

I don't buy used games, because I hate used things and I like to collect games(also the reason why I dislike buying on steam/gog etc).

 

[Azuaron]

Something I haven't heard anyone talk about:

The game being commented on is charging for online play. I think this is perfectly valid. Online play requires powerful servers, bandwidth, etc. that is IN ADDITION to the original development cost of the game. If you want to use their resources, you should really have to pay for it. The original buyer of the game paid for it, why shouldn't the used buyer of the game also have to pay for it?

 

[Krakyn]

You know the real cheaters? Those damn gamers who borrow stuff from the library! Both developers and Gamestop don't get a dime from them. Play all you like for free? Libraries are a threat to game developers, book sellers, the movie industry, and record labels! Burn 'em down!

Sorry for the hyperbole, but really. Why do you think no one raises a stink about free media from libraries?

You know, that's an interesting point. I've never heard anyone complain about this.

You know why? Because it's ridiculous. That's why.

In all earnestness, why is it ridiculous? I can get access to games legally without paying the developers a cent from used game sales and the library. What makes one ridiculous and the other not? Aside from making the developers look really bad, that is.

I do think that people bashing used game sales is just as ridiculous (probably a bit less) than people bashing libraries. If you see all my other posts in this thread, used games sales do no harm to the developers because of price thresholds on used game consumers. They're not going to buy a $60 game under most circumstances, whether they want it or not. They're going to pirate it, borrow it from a friend, go in on it with somebody else, get it on craigslist, or something. But they're not going to pay $60 for it.

Libraries are places to store the knowledge and history of our world. Games are part of that knowledge and history, and if the library wants to buy a game and rent it out, that's their prerogative. You have to deal with some things though like a reservation waiting list, people not returning them on time, etc. If you go rent the game from the library, the developer got paid for that product, and it's just as if somebody passed it around to their friends afterward or sold it to Gamestop used. If you get your games from the library, you're a smart consumer.

 

[romxxii]

they'd make a lot more money if they just go full digital distribution, knock down the price since they're no longer paying manufacturing costs for the physical media, packaging, and whatever content goes on said packaging. Then institute Shamus' idea of consistent depreciation in cost so that you can buy a game you weren't that interested in two or three years down the line to see what you missed out on.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

I got red faction guerrilla for free after I bought Darksiders

I had forgotten about that deal, not that I had the money (or interest) to get Darksiders.