Of course... this whole argument is completely irrelevant to the three studios that are still PC exclusive and of course... to PC gamers like myself.
Bargains Are for Cheaters
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
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It strikes me that the game developers en masse should just buy gamestop, then use it as their exclusive marketing tool much like "The Beer Store" is run by the breweries in Ontario.
You want to sell beer in any volume in Ontario? You buy shares in the beer store. That way, everyone makes money and the ones with lots of shares make more in relation to the amount of the store they own.
This would co-opt the market. By still allowing distribution through Bestbuy etc, they would also avoid the monopoly issues.
You want to sell beer in any volume in Ontario? You buy shares in the beer store. That way, everyone makes money and the ones with lots of shares make more in relation to the amount of the store they own.
This would co-opt the market. By still allowing distribution through Bestbuy etc, they would also avoid the monopoly issues.
On the rare occasions I buy console titles I almost always buy used. Even if the prices were identical I would still likely opt for the used copy. Reason being, at Gamestop, used titles have a 7 day no questions asked return policy. I'm sorry, I simply don't care how awesome a game might be, if I'm laying down 60 bucks I want to know that if I beat it in 2 days or it doesn't ring my bell I can take it back and call it a wash and get my money back or get another game.
Unlike used games, new games offer no such return policy. If I pay 60 dollars and the game it total shit I'm stuck with it and my options are selling it online or shelving it and eating the loss. Neither of which I relish. Looking at it strictly as a customer when presented with two identical copies with one being 5 dollars cheaper with a 7 day return policy and the other being more expensive and no return policy what so ever the call is a simple one.
If these developers whining about used games want me to buy their games new then they need to give me a reason to and holding content hostage won't be that reason. If they want to do that, I will just go without that content like in the case of online play, or skip the game all together if it is content I would of made use of.
Right now the console game market is putting out about 1 decent game for every 10 garbage titles. Of those good titles maybe a 1 out of every 10 of those has enough content to justify paying anywhere near 60 dollars for it. Considering that 1 in every 100 games put out is actually worth 60 dollars is there any question as to why people would be shy about buying new games and opt to buy used games that come with a guarantee.
Unlike used games, new games offer no such return policy. If I pay 60 dollars and the game it total shit I'm stuck with it and my options are selling it online or shelving it and eating the loss. Neither of which I relish. Looking at it strictly as a customer when presented with two identical copies with one being 5 dollars cheaper with a 7 day return policy and the other being more expensive and no return policy what so ever the call is a simple one.
If these developers whining about used games want me to buy their games new then they need to give me a reason to and holding content hostage won't be that reason. If they want to do that, I will just go without that content like in the case of online play, or skip the game all together if it is content I would of made use of.
Right now the console game market is putting out about 1 decent game for every 10 garbage titles. Of those good titles maybe a 1 out of every 10 of those has enough content to justify paying anywhere near 60 dollars for it. Considering that 1 in every 100 games put out is actually worth 60 dollars is there any question as to why people would be shy about buying new games and opt to buy used games that come with a guarantee.
Tanfastic article - I was just talking about this with my mate a week or so back.
I have to ask though. Does the video game industry even have a right to complain? This is not trolling or flaming the industry, it's an actual question. Are they losing any money that wouldn't otherwise just go to a Scrooge McDuck swimming pool? Or are they just greedy and want the full amount just because they're 'entitled' to it?
Anyway, there's one more thing. See, seeing a movie (which is the top dollar thing, right?) in a theatre comes at a price which ranges from country to country - and it scales with the fucking earning you can make in that country. My friend in UK wants to go see a movie? The theatre is going to cost them 10 pounds, which is roughly 12 euros. I wanna see a movie in Serbia? It's gonna cost me about 3.5 euros. Notice the difference? It takes into account the living standard of the country - not completely of course, but there's a decent effort at least and as a result we're no strangers to going to the cinema.
Now let's compare game prices. Starcraft 2 in UK? 42,5 euros. Starcraft 2 in Serbia? 57 euros. See anything wrong with this picture?
Lets look at minimum wage difference between UK and Serbia - 7 euros an hour to 128 euros per month (data from wikipedia, might not be spot on or 100% current, and we're not just talking about minimum wages, but it illustrates my point). That's 18 UK hours, which is a bit over 2 days with a 9-5 job for an entire month of work in Serbia. Assuming a 3 day/week job in Serbia, that's a comparison of 18 hours in UK to 96 hours in Serbia, which is over 5 times the difference. So how can you expect the people in the latter to pay you a higher price for the product?
What that results in is that they don't get any money from us at all - this is not just an overstatement, out of all my gamer friends, I don't think I know anyone who owns a new game (exception sometimes being an MMO), at the very best they buy it when it gets dirt cheap just as an homage to a great game. People can't afford a game so they either download it or buy a pirated copy. Even places that rent games just rent you the pirated version.
You can bang on about how evil piracy is, but I'd love to see you shell out some 250 euros for a 40 euro game and come back with the same story. Instead, they could scale the prices down to something reasonable and get some decent profit in return. Or they can bang on about what they're 'entitled' to and get nothing. Makes little difference to me.
[small]Note, while this post paints certain facts and points about the ethics of piracy, it does not condone piracy or indicate the practice of the same by the poster. Any resemblance between fictional characters and real life is purely coincidental.[/small]
I have to ask though. Does the video game industry even have a right to complain? This is not trolling or flaming the industry, it's an actual question. Are they losing any money that wouldn't otherwise just go to a Scrooge McDuck swimming pool? Or are they just greedy and want the full amount just because they're 'entitled' to it?
Anyway, there's one more thing. See, seeing a movie (which is the top dollar thing, right?) in a theatre comes at a price which ranges from country to country - and it scales with the fucking earning you can make in that country. My friend in UK wants to go see a movie? The theatre is going to cost them 10 pounds, which is roughly 12 euros. I wanna see a movie in Serbia? It's gonna cost me about 3.5 euros. Notice the difference? It takes into account the living standard of the country - not completely of course, but there's a decent effort at least and as a result we're no strangers to going to the cinema.
Now let's compare game prices. Starcraft 2 in UK? 42,5 euros. Starcraft 2 in Serbia? 57 euros. See anything wrong with this picture?
Lets look at minimum wage difference between UK and Serbia - 7 euros an hour to 128 euros per month (data from wikipedia, might not be spot on or 100% current, and we're not just talking about minimum wages, but it illustrates my point). That's 18 UK hours, which is a bit over 2 days with a 9-5 job for an entire month of work in Serbia. Assuming a 3 day/week job in Serbia, that's a comparison of 18 hours in UK to 96 hours in Serbia, which is over 5 times the difference. So how can you expect the people in the latter to pay you a higher price for the product?
What that results in is that they don't get any money from us at all - this is not just an overstatement, out of all my gamer friends, I don't think I know anyone who owns a new game (exception sometimes being an MMO), at the very best they buy it when it gets dirt cheap just as an homage to a great game. People can't afford a game so they either download it or buy a pirated copy. Even places that rent games just rent you the pirated version.
You can bang on about how evil piracy is, but I'd love to see you shell out some 250 euros for a 40 euro game and come back with the same story. Instead, they could scale the prices down to something reasonable and get some decent profit in return. Or they can bang on about what they're 'entitled' to and get nothing. Makes little difference to me.
[small]Note, while this post paints certain facts and points about the ethics of piracy, it does not condone piracy or indicate the practice of the same by the poster. Any resemblance between fictional characters and real life is purely coincidental.[/small]
Gawd, I've literally been saying ths since the argument began. Games don't depreciate in value nearly as fast as they should. They should really be half price after a year. It's ludicrous to expect me to pay such huge prices for games. The whole reason for me not getting a console was because I'd have to spend the cost of the console to buy like 4 games. I'd say much more work goes into consoles than games surely... so frankly the video game industry can fuck off.
I am of the opinion that used game sales in places like Game-stop are BAD for the consumer. I'm not saying used games per say. But look at it this way, I went to trade in Modern Warfare 2 back in Jan in Gamestop. They offered my ?10 for a game less than 3 months old, and they were selling it for about ?35-45. So I stuck it on Gumtree and got ?40 for it. I do this regularly now, and I have always gotten "near" retail price.
Gamestop aren't just ripping devs and publishers off, they're ripping you off too.
Gamestop aren't just ripping devs and publishers off, they're ripping you off too.
If you're talking about that single storefront in [god know's where], please slap yourself, as I can't reach you.lockeslylcrit said:
The problem is "billions" are split between hundreds of companies with gamestop taking the largest portion. Just because they aren't all starving, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.Therumancer said:
I've never seen a book that cost even one million to write.nhgifnd said:
*checks the date*
Wow... what a novel idea, an idea everyone has had since the beginning of time and have been trying to take advantage of for their entire lives.
See, "greatest hits". That was a program way back when where the PS2 sold games that were popular at a large discount after they sold enough.
This is nothing new. I'd wish you'd say so instead of pretending it hasn't been tried before and pretending that for some reason teh gaming industry wasn't doing it for ages. Sure, tehy might have stopped, but then you can't say, "pick up what the film industry has done" no, it's, "continue what you were doing, we liked that".
Wow... what a novel idea, an idea everyone has had since the beginning of time and have been trying to take advantage of for their entire lives.
See, "greatest hits". That was a program way back when where the PS2 sold games that were popular at a large discount after they sold enough.
This is nothing new. I'd wish you'd say so instead of pretending it hasn't been tried before and pretending that for some reason teh gaming industry wasn't doing it for ages. Sure, tehy might have stopped, but then you can't say, "pick up what the film industry has done" no, it's, "continue what you were doing, we liked that".
I did this with my PC recently. I bought Dragon Age; Origins, new for $30 a week or so ago. Since then I've dropped another $25 in Bioware points buying DLC for a game I'm now obsessed with. Bioware has already made nearly $60 on me buying a "marked down" game. I'll likely shell out for even more as time goes on, and since I only paid $30 to start (and got shale for free) I'll feel like I still got a good deal.Lord_Gremlin said:
Of course that's a slightly older game.
When I bought Fallout 3 for my PS3, the price was still $60,despite te fact it'd been out for several months at the time. Since then I bought all the DLC on the Playstation store, that's a whopping $120 spent on one game. As much as I loved Fallout 3 when I look at the money I put into it I can't help but feel I got taken a little bit even if I ultimately end up spending more on Dragon Age (which, given Awakenings and Witch Hunt I still might) I'll still feel like I got ripped off by Fallout 3.
You always get the impression that game companies must be kinda hard up for money from the way they try to squeeze as much money as possible out of consumers.
I mean, even if they are, that's at least partially their fault for dumping a million billion dollars onto every game they put out. I'm sure that they could do better if they didn't keep on trying for the same scale of success every single time.
By the way, Shamus, you're kinda wrong about your assessment of used products. Used games are just as indistinguishable from the originals as used furniture or automobiles, especially since Gamestop is known for not checking for quality.
The whole business of "potentially lost sales" is fuzzy as hell anyways, in this case, because of the fact that, unless there is some ridiculous sort of commission business, the publisher doesn't get the money that the consumer puts out; they get the money that the store pays for the games, and the publisher would do better if there either was more market scarcity for the store or if they could somehow undercut the store.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGH BUSINESS
I mean, even if they are, that's at least partially their fault for dumping a million billion dollars onto every game they put out. I'm sure that they could do better if they didn't keep on trying for the same scale of success every single time.
By the way, Shamus, you're kinda wrong about your assessment of used products. Used games are just as indistinguishable from the originals as used furniture or automobiles, especially since Gamestop is known for not checking for quality.
The whole business of "potentially lost sales" is fuzzy as hell anyways, in this case, because of the fact that, unless there is some ridiculous sort of commission business, the publisher doesn't get the money that the consumer puts out; they get the money that the store pays for the games, and the publisher would do better if there either was more market scarcity for the store or if they could somehow undercut the store.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGH BUSINESS
Didn't see this--who the hell would agree to such a deal?! Who-why-how?! These are the worst businessmen! The worst!powell86 said:
I agree $15 games should spur business. However, we're not talking about selling blank CDs or downloading empty files. Their aggressive pricing (even in the $15 range for specials) isn't helping their margin much if they're still whining. That or they just want more of your money.ionveau said:
Absolutely agreed. I like how you opened with equating the ridiculousness of arguing for "lost sales" based on the used game market and libraries. Based on principle, you'd have to say both are bad or both are good. Assuming that libraries are good (hard to argue against that), that tips the responsibility to the developers to compete with the used market. They can say what they want, but their ability to make money is their responsibility. If they try to legislate to make used game sales illegal, let them try. Games are a tough industry, as we already know. The people with the most time to play them usually don't have the money to buy all the games they want. That's a tough crowd to justify these prices to.Krakyn said:
Apparently you've never heard of the EA Download Manager [http://eastore.ea.com/store/ea/html/pbPage.welcome] (EADM) or the EA Store.Cynical skeptic said:
Actually this debate is useless because most people involved in it have no idea what they're talking about. I say used games, you think "bobby selling/giving his copy to jimmy," and the entire thing spirals into stupidity.
The issue is a handful of large retail chains controlling a large majority of the secondary market. Market control is wrong, illegal, whatever. But because of the first sale doctrine, they get a free pass. Gamestop's is the worst offender. Their used game model places used copies between consumers and new copies. Their every sale of a used copy is a lost sale of a new copy. Every dime they leech away from the industry just goes to opening more stores.
You remember all the houses EA sacked the last couple years?
The issue is a handful of large retail chains controlling a large majority of the secondary market. Market control is wrong, illegal, whatever. But because of the first sale doctrine, they get a free pass. Gamestop's is the worst offender. Their used game model places used copies between consumers and new copies. Their every sale of a used copy is a lost sale of a new copy. Every dime they leech away from the industry just goes to opening more stores.
Nope, never had.lockeslylcrit said:
You remember all the houses EA sacked the last couple years?