Bashing the P0rnz
- Thread starter Gentile
- Start date
I like porn.
And I think your arguments are flawed, most legitimate pornos (I say legitimate, as in: Director, camera crew, editing. Not: Dude, drunk chick, cellphone cam.) take a bunch of precautions, using condoms, getting regular STD checks.
Many people are attractive and enjoy sex, so they get paid for doing what they like.
And I see nothing wrong with kids learning about sexuality to learn a bit from porn, that shouldn't be the only place they learn about sex, but it's a natural part of growing up.
Of course, the internet has been my "teacher" for about 10 years, so I may be bias.
Really not the big, child corrupting deal that people seem to think it is.
And I think your arguments are flawed, most legitimate pornos (I say legitimate, as in: Director, camera crew, editing. Not: Dude, drunk chick, cellphone cam.) take a bunch of precautions, using condoms, getting regular STD checks.
Many people are attractive and enjoy sex, so they get paid for doing what they like.
And I see nothing wrong with kids learning about sexuality to learn a bit from porn, that shouldn't be the only place they learn about sex, but it's a natural part of growing up.
Of course, the internet has been my "teacher" for about 10 years, so I may be bias.
Really not the big, child corrupting deal that people seem to think it is.
That's a myth. To get you started on fixing this inaccuracy, read [a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour#Sex_for_pleasure"]this[/a].Gentile said:
But really, it shouldn't be that hard to see how wrong this is. Ever seen a dog lick itself?
(I'm sure someone has posted similarly by no but I can't keep up)
Okay, wow where to start?
Anything Outstanding:
I understood your point long before you started to explain it in detail. I've had similar thoughts about the problem of over population on occasion, but I think you underestimate the force of public resistance to population control anytime in the near future. I personally think it unlikely that people the world over (or even just the western hemisphere) would accept population control, (especially through genetic manipulation) until we reach overcrowding similar to certain Asian nations. Though I'd probably agree with you most of the time about most of your ideas/arguments, (intellectually anyway)the sheer strength of your convictions is more than a little terrifying.
OT: I guess I'll start by saying that I was first introduced to porn at a fairly young age and continue to watch it on occasion. Never did I have the misconception that it was anything like real sex or love thanks to an even earlier introduction to sex via sex-ed class and the loving relationship displayed between my parents (not to mention that even at age 10 I wasn't a complete moron. Strange how that hasn't managed to stay the case ;D).
I would be more than happy to give up sex for the rest of my life for a truly intimate relationship (though I do consider sex to be an important aspect of a relationship for the intimacy it helps foster).
I would like to talk about the historical attitudes towards sex and children and don't even get me started on religion and sex, but frankly I'm tired so goodnight.
Btw I'm living proof that not all young people have "the wrong ideas" about sex and yes, I do love me some parentheses.
Okay, wow where to start?
Anything Outstanding:
I understood your point long before you started to explain it in detail. I've had similar thoughts about the problem of over population on occasion, but I think you underestimate the force of public resistance to population control anytime in the near future. I personally think it unlikely that people the world over (or even just the western hemisphere) would accept population control, (especially through genetic manipulation) until we reach overcrowding similar to certain Asian nations. Though I'd probably agree with you most of the time about most of your ideas/arguments, (intellectually anyway)the sheer strength of your convictions is more than a little terrifying.
OT: I guess I'll start by saying that I was first introduced to porn at a fairly young age and continue to watch it on occasion. Never did I have the misconception that it was anything like real sex or love thanks to an even earlier introduction to sex via sex-ed class and the loving relationship displayed between my parents (not to mention that even at age 10 I wasn't a complete moron. Strange how that hasn't managed to stay the case ;D).
I would be more than happy to give up sex for the rest of my life for a truly intimate relationship (though I do consider sex to be an important aspect of a relationship for the intimacy it helps foster).
I would like to talk about the historical attitudes towards sex and children and don't even get me started on religion and sex, but frankly I'm tired so goodnight.
Btw I'm living proof that not all young people have "the wrong ideas" about sex and yes, I do love me some parentheses.
More like putting the life partner as a whole on a pedestal. Avoiding premarital sex is a personal choice. I won't get into how others should mirror that choice as well. The topic is about how porn could be one of the root causes of poor sexual choices within society.AugustFall said:
Solution:
Live and let live.
OP, if you don't like it, don't watch it. Seriously. Theres not a post on this board that is going to change your preexisting notions one iota. At this point, you are basically soapboxing and preaching at all of the people who really don't consider it as destructive to society as you clearly do.
Yes, pornography is more accessible these days, because of the internet. No one under the age of 16 should be allowed on the internet, under any circumstance. (LEGO MMO for children? puhhhleeeze). No, your puritanical views on love and sex are not necessarily the end all be all of human sexuality.
Once again, live and let live.
Live and let live.
OP, if you don't like it, don't watch it. Seriously. Theres not a post on this board that is going to change your preexisting notions one iota. At this point, you are basically soapboxing and preaching at all of the people who really don't consider it as destructive to society as you clearly do.
Yes, pornography is more accessible these days, because of the internet. No one under the age of 16 should be allowed on the internet, under any circumstance. (LEGO MMO for children? puhhhleeeze). No, your puritanical views on love and sex are not necessarily the end all be all of human sexuality.
Once again, live and let live.
I know what you mean but when you word it like that it makes it seem as if you think of a partner as a sex object.Gentile said:
lol but I know what you're actually getting at, I just disagree.
Also no, it's not. Sex feels awesome, kids are stupid. Keeping them ignorant is not a solution. Better education about safe sex is how to fix teen pregnancy and shiz.
Monkeys also have sex for pleasure, and did you know that monkeys only have 2% genetic difference with humans?Gentile said:
And dolphins are the 2nd most intelligent creature(the 1st are humans of course.).
I'd say there seems to be a connection between intelligence and sex for pleasure.
I'm smart enough to know the difference on my own. I think as long as people can tell that porn isn't an accurate representation of sex, then they're fine. If they can't, they have problems that are far greater than porn.Gentile said:
And besides, if we were all learning about sex from just porn, we'd think it always needed to end in a money shot, meaning that no one would become pregnant again.
Discernment itself means good judgement, "good discernment" adds nothing"Gentile said:
Good judgement is up to the person
We can only educate, what one does with that info is up to them. To take that away is fascism.
And now we are totally of topic.
Good night sir.
I think there are actually pretty strict regulations with porn. I saw a documentary on it once, it was crazy. Now, all the amateur stuff some random guy makes in his basement, that's not controlled, but any big company has several rules and tests done to both actors in the film. Most girls are usually on the pill and porn stars do use condoms. Not sure about the emotional turmoil, I mean it isn't like it's rape, everyones consenting. And physical turmoil? Um...what does that even mean?Gentile said:
My weird case of "post disappearing into thin air" led me to repost this. If anyone finds my other runaway post, please contact the authorities or something:
But that's REALLY far off in the future, maybe a millennia from now. Currently, and certainly for the next few centuries, sex drives are a completely immaterial concern. The OP is probably going on against porn because of his upbringing and cultural climate, unwilling to look at it from a clearly rational standpoint.
Sex/masturbation is one of the most productive means of stress-relief since basically nothing but a human body needs to be produced for it to work. It's the basis of reproduction for all complex organisms, entirely ubiquitous, simple, cheap and almost completely harmless for any individuals involved (most STDs in a controlled environment like the Western world are more of a nuisance and easily treated. We aren't in any danger of dying from sex anytime soon).
So the only reason anybody would object to what is basically free and unlimited pleasure is that it "adversely affects overall morality" or something. One can surely notice that the modern human being has enough worries and problems to challenge him so he doesn't become complacent, so it doesn't seem likely that sex will turn us all into orgasm-addicts or anything. In fact, excessive sex drives are rather rare and classified as a mental disorder. And even with it, it's merely a quirk that can be worked around with.
Anyone's "moral" concerns on the matter are therefore completely unsubstantiated. Citing "abortus" as a problem is a sign of lacking reason because an arbitrary "soul distribution"-moment when the fetus is created isn't scientific fact and should not be affecting the material world or be acted upon. "Spiritual concerns" are also a weak reason, completely ignoring the hundreds of millions of people that indulge in sex and are still valuable members of society, and also applying one's mentality (one based on magical thinking) onto other people's values.
I tend not to trust anyone who has vested interests in a topic to be objective about it, for a very important reason: they are driven by what they want to believe, not by wanting to know the truth. For example, the OP insists on treating the millions working in the porn industry as victims with "permanent physical and emotional damages", regardless of whether they feel the same. As he understands, "they cannot be anything less than permanently damaged if they are getting knocked up for a living!" - this is a telltale sign of cultural myopia and a narrow worldview.
His good intentions are irrelevant, his cause is thoroughly distructive and motivated by religious masochism, a very ubiquitous concept born from hundreds of years of irrational anti-carnal propaganda that has been dying (for good reason) since the 1960s in the West. It leads to a sort of cultural backtracking into the wonderful, moral, and totally more wholesome golden era of non-sex known as the Middle Ages.
And since this is the Escapist and people like him are a ridiculously rare breed on the Escapist, his trolldom is almost certain. Still, don't think for a second that there aren't people out there that think like him.
You are going at it like a supervillain, but I'd say you're on the right track. Human natural instincts aren't getting any stronger, especially since most of them are useless now that we've removed the dangers/stimuli that cause them. In time, it's reasonable to assume that we will become a genderless species that reproduces through more efficient and controllable means.AnythingOutstanding said:
But that's REALLY far off in the future, maybe a millennia from now. Currently, and certainly for the next few centuries, sex drives are a completely immaterial concern. The OP is probably going on against porn because of his upbringing and cultural climate, unwilling to look at it from a clearly rational standpoint.
Sex/masturbation is one of the most productive means of stress-relief since basically nothing but a human body needs to be produced for it to work. It's the basis of reproduction for all complex organisms, entirely ubiquitous, simple, cheap and almost completely harmless for any individuals involved (most STDs in a controlled environment like the Western world are more of a nuisance and easily treated. We aren't in any danger of dying from sex anytime soon).
So the only reason anybody would object to what is basically free and unlimited pleasure is that it "adversely affects overall morality" or something. One can surely notice that the modern human being has enough worries and problems to challenge him so he doesn't become complacent, so it doesn't seem likely that sex will turn us all into orgasm-addicts or anything. In fact, excessive sex drives are rather rare and classified as a mental disorder. And even with it, it's merely a quirk that can be worked around with.
Anyone's "moral" concerns on the matter are therefore completely unsubstantiated. Citing "abortus" as a problem is a sign of lacking reason because an arbitrary "soul distribution"-moment when the fetus is created isn't scientific fact and should not be affecting the material world or be acted upon. "Spiritual concerns" are also a weak reason, completely ignoring the hundreds of millions of people that indulge in sex and are still valuable members of society, and also applying one's mentality (one based on magical thinking) onto other people's values.
I tend not to trust anyone who has vested interests in a topic to be objective about it, for a very important reason: they are driven by what they want to believe, not by wanting to know the truth. For example, the OP insists on treating the millions working in the porn industry as victims with "permanent physical and emotional damages", regardless of whether they feel the same. As he understands, "they cannot be anything less than permanently damaged if they are getting knocked up for a living!" - this is a telltale sign of cultural myopia and a narrow worldview.
His good intentions are irrelevant, his cause is thoroughly distructive and motivated by religious masochism, a very ubiquitous concept born from hundreds of years of irrational anti-carnal propaganda that has been dying (for good reason) since the 1960s in the West. It leads to a sort of cultural backtracking into the wonderful, moral, and totally more wholesome golden era of non-sex known as the Middle Ages.
And since this is the Escapist and people like him are a ridiculously rare breed on the Escapist, his trolldom is almost certain. Still, don't think for a second that there aren't people out there that think like him.
You're not going to get rid of porn - it's human nature to want to watch that sort of thing.
Not everyone watches porn, and not everyone watches the same amount. I rarely watch porn, because it's just not that interesting. I know of people who are however, pornography addicts. They weren't exactly my friends, but I have had to work with some of them and strangely enough, they were a bit too enthusiastic about sharing their.... uh, hobby.
Is Porn psychologically damaging for the viewer? It can be. It depends on how you view it, what you view and how often. I would imagine that it would eventually deaden some emotional centres of the brain.
Is it bad for the people involved? Honestly, I don't know, I've never been in a porn film. I would hazard a guess that it would be harmful psychological in the long run, however, for a lot of the, hm, "actors" and "actresses". But again, I don't know.
You're not going to get rid of Porn. I would however, like to see less sex in day to day life. Seriously, the way some people go on and on about sex is bizarre. Frankly, I care more about professional success and travelling. Give me the choice between a lot of sex and a vacation to the US or a trip to the Antarctic, I would take the travel option every time.
Sex is just sex. It's not THAT special.
Not everyone watches porn, and not everyone watches the same amount. I rarely watch porn, because it's just not that interesting. I know of people who are however, pornography addicts. They weren't exactly my friends, but I have had to work with some of them and strangely enough, they were a bit too enthusiastic about sharing their.... uh, hobby.
Is Porn psychologically damaging for the viewer? It can be. It depends on how you view it, what you view and how often. I would imagine that it would eventually deaden some emotional centres of the brain.
Is it bad for the people involved? Honestly, I don't know, I've never been in a porn film. I would hazard a guess that it would be harmful psychological in the long run, however, for a lot of the, hm, "actors" and "actresses". But again, I don't know.
You're not going to get rid of Porn. I would however, like to see less sex in day to day life. Seriously, the way some people go on and on about sex is bizarre. Frankly, I care more about professional success and travelling. Give me the choice between a lot of sex and a vacation to the US or a trip to the Antarctic, I would take the travel option every time.
Sex is just sex. It's not THAT special.
A lot of porn is distinctly distasteful to me.
There are studios, casting directors and producers who manipulate and generally emotionally abuse their actors, with women of colour often getting a particularly raw deal. It's actually a lot like regular showbiz used to be. You fit very narrow qualifications or you're willing to tolerate situations you find degrading for the sake of getting work. As with any industry that no one wants to really look at or acknowledge, there's a greater opportunity for abuse of power. There's definitely more work to be done there.
However: pornography period is not the problem. Fetishes and fantasies? Not the problem. Masturbation? The opposite of a problem. If little Jimmy is whackin' it in his room, he's not out getting his girlfriend pregnant. And someone who's just gotten off is not going to be a bother to anyone. Lack of education and larger trends such as racism, violence and sexism are the problem. Their emergence in porn is a symptom. Not one to ignore, but not something to blame on the messenger.
Don't get me wrong, people have always been and will always be messed up. Gods know I am. There will always be fetishes and fantasies that will squick you out. But as with many scary parts of ourselves, it's all in how you express it, and you're never going to find a respectful way to do that if you just lock the door on the whole thing. Do we need changes to the porn industry and the standards to which we hold pornography? Probably. I swear, I have seen on more than one occasion stuff designed to get off to but which isn't a giggling vacuum. WTB more of that, plz.
And yes, some kids are that dumb. But for the kids who are that dumb, unwise sexual adventures are the LEAST of their problems. Besides, kids too young to feel sexual urges themselves, often as not look on the whole thing as unspeakably gross. I am pretty much always a proponent of education over censorship, because censorship only works if you can maintain it, but a lesson lasts ages with only the occasional refresher. I can put on a condom in my sleep. I know what birth control methods are more and less effective. I know that I can and should set boundaries when I have to. I know that it's important to get tested regularly once you become active. I'm glad people taught me all those things before it got complicated by drives and emotions.
TLDR: Some fantasies weird out even me, there are issues with exploitation in the industry, we could use some more quality in porn. That said, watching people have sex is not the problem, not even weird sex, not even kinds you don't like. P.S. The kids are not being warped by watching someone put a condom on a banana.
P.P.S. Does someone know a good doctor to go to for wall-of-textitis. I do my best, honest...
There are studios, casting directors and producers who manipulate and generally emotionally abuse their actors, with women of colour often getting a particularly raw deal. It's actually a lot like regular showbiz used to be. You fit very narrow qualifications or you're willing to tolerate situations you find degrading for the sake of getting work. As with any industry that no one wants to really look at or acknowledge, there's a greater opportunity for abuse of power. There's definitely more work to be done there.
However: pornography period is not the problem. Fetishes and fantasies? Not the problem. Masturbation? The opposite of a problem. If little Jimmy is whackin' it in his room, he's not out getting his girlfriend pregnant. And someone who's just gotten off is not going to be a bother to anyone. Lack of education and larger trends such as racism, violence and sexism are the problem. Their emergence in porn is a symptom. Not one to ignore, but not something to blame on the messenger.
Don't get me wrong, people have always been and will always be messed up. Gods know I am. There will always be fetishes and fantasies that will squick you out. But as with many scary parts of ourselves, it's all in how you express it, and you're never going to find a respectful way to do that if you just lock the door on the whole thing. Do we need changes to the porn industry and the standards to which we hold pornography? Probably. I swear, I have seen on more than one occasion stuff designed to get off to but which isn't a giggling vacuum. WTB more of that, plz.
And yes, some kids are that dumb. But for the kids who are that dumb, unwise sexual adventures are the LEAST of their problems. Besides, kids too young to feel sexual urges themselves, often as not look on the whole thing as unspeakably gross. I am pretty much always a proponent of education over censorship, because censorship only works if you can maintain it, but a lesson lasts ages with only the occasional refresher. I can put on a condom in my sleep. I know what birth control methods are more and less effective. I know that I can and should set boundaries when I have to. I know that it's important to get tested regularly once you become active. I'm glad people taught me all those things before it got complicated by drives and emotions.
TLDR: Some fantasies weird out even me, there are issues with exploitation in the industry, we could use some more quality in porn. That said, watching people have sex is not the problem, not even weird sex, not even kinds you don't like. P.S. The kids are not being warped by watching someone put a condom on a banana.
P.P.S. Does someone know a good doctor to go to for wall-of-textitis. I do my best, honest...
I found your post really...interesting, but dont ya think its a bit harsh to consider this guy trolling for having a different point of view?Seneschal said: