Bioware allows the release of "The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3" a tell all app for $2.99 WTF?!

[Casual Shinji]

Understand, everything after Shep falls to the ground is Indoctrination, the Options are there to either let Shep Free himself from it, or Accept the Indoctrination.

Your choice in the end does matter, because you either became indoctrinated or you didnt.

Okay, but then why does Shepard see Anderson doing the supposed wrong thing and TIM doing the supposed right one, if he's indoctrinated?

One of the points that apparently proves this theory is that the Paragon colour is used to highlight the BAD choice and the Renegade colour is used to highlight the RIGHT choice. So as to (supposedly) make Shep think he's doing the right thing when he's actually making the wrong choice, right?

But then why would Shep invision Anderson (his most trusted friend and father figure) choosing for the Renegade coloured option if the Reapers wanted him to believe that it was the wrong choice?

You see how this theory isn't making any sense in the context of what's actually on screen?

Finishing the Mission is all that matters, Renegade or Paragon has never stood in for Good or Wrong, the whole thing is a meta test for players, Notice how Tim Wanting to control is relegated as the paragon choice, even though its an indoctrination. Remember how Rewriting the Geth came back to bite you in the ass?.

The Indoctrination fits with the themes that have been established in the game, specially since if you look at it Indoctrination has been hammered as early as the begging. The PSTD Asari Huntress, Matriarch Aethyta, Mentions from Joker, Garrus, Liara, Javik. The conversations with EDI about free will.

I will admit that Bioware fucked up completely because they didnt make the thin clear enough and from the statements that have appeared and evidence its clear that the ending was supposed to have more than what is presented. But the answer makes the ending part finally make sense in the story.

Thing is, I'm totally okay with people interpreting a story in different ways if the story itself was vague to begin with.

But Mass Effect has always been pretty clear cut with its story and left no stone unturned when it came to explaining the lore behind it. I just find it hard to believe that the entire series explained everything down to a tee, but then gets totally vague on purpose in the final 10 minutes.

I'm gonna have to pull out the ockham's razor card.

What's easier for me to believe? That Bioware simply couldn't handle the size and legacy that Mass Effect had become, and totally fumbled the ending as a result. Or that they somehow weaved this elaborate and highly subtle indoctrination plotline (for which there was absolutely zero evidence untill people started getting pissed about the ending) throughout the story.

I like Bioware, I really do, but they are not that clever... or subtle.

 

[boag]

You're getting beside yourself now. It's a bad ending, we agree, but how is it worse than gouging us for money? Or streamlining the series?


There are problems.. and then there are PROBLEMS! My issues deal with the gaming industry as a whole, your petty problems are just one series.

I'd never agree with that fangirl. NEVER!

ok, I need you to clear your mind and FOCUS.


This is an allegory for the ending.

If I sell you a pepperoni pizza, and half of the pizza isnt baked, and doesnt have sauce, and the pep and cheese is just thrown on in a ball, then I am not selling you a whole pizza.

ME3 is the Pizza, the end of the game is the half that was uncooked, this is literately an unfinished product. It is Gouging, it is in the same vein as the DLC.

Do you get it now?

and your entire statement above is agreeing with sar.

 

[boag]

What's easier for me to believe? That Bioware simply couldn't handle the size and legacy that Mass Effect had become, and totally fumbled the ending as a result. Or that they somehow weaved this elaborate and highly subtle indoctrination plotline (for which there was absolutely zero evidence untill people started getting pissed about the ending) throughout the story.

I like Bioware, I really do, but they are not that clever... or subtle.

The 2 arent mutually exclusive, They probably did try to make an ending that was witty and unique and subtle, and they Fucked it up, they fucked it up so massively that a majority of the people have come out to say how much the ending sucks.

I was one of those people, I can now move on because the little tidbit of them fucking up and cutting out the complete ending makes sense.

indoctrination fits with everything presented in the game, the fact that they screwed up presenting it doesnt make the final idea false, it just makes Bioware total complete morons for not being able to implement it properly.

 

[Avalanche91]

Even if the indoctrination ending turns out to be true, it doesn't make me like it.

They could have done plenty of cool things with the player character getting indoctrinated, but they made it pretty much entirely non interactive, raises more questions then it answers, and the ending would still feel like a cop out.

 

[Something Amyss]

They had the same ending as Ashes to Ashes (sequel to Life on Mars).

It's be so much cooler if it had the same ending as "Ashes to Ashes," sequel to "Space Oddity."

"Bioware/EA, the court of public opinion finds you guilty of repeatedly: misleading, disappointing and ignoring your customers. How do you plead?"

"Not guilty. We would also like it known we find both you and the jury childish and unreasonable, and would also like more of your money."

"Court of public opinion accepts and will spend money as you see fit. Next case."

I fixed that for you.

 

[Aisaku]

Bioware and EA are holding the characters and the setting we care about hostage. That's what it all amounts to in my book.

That's the reason of the the fan outrage, the controversy... It's not something you reason you figure it out, it's a visceral reaction to a story you've become emotionally connected with.

Seen the original Evangelion? Yes, that's pretty much it.

Lol! I went with Instrumentality on my playthrough! "Eff it, Evangelion style!" *jump*

But wait a second, why all the hate? What was really the problem with the ending? I liked it.

Though, deep down, I kinda wanted it to be a treatise on futility, and the struggle against it. Reapers winning probably would have been my favorite.

Evangelion, that's exactly what I thought... Bioware just pulled a Hideaki Anno. I'm sure that these endings have been just what some fans wanted and that's alright.

I've been thinking... and if they had gone the expected route, Shepard lives or dies, galaxy is saved or destroyed and getting an epilogue for each faction/squadmate/LI... WOULD THAT HAVE MADE EVERYONE SATISFIED? I mean, what would be enough to satiate Mass Effect franchise fans? The Penny-Arcade comic pokes fun at this.

My guess is, even if they had done everything 'right' they still would have been criticized... for being too long, for not making enough voicework... fans love to nitpick. With this move they have effectively lowered everyone's expectations. They could patch a running text epilogue and people would take it.

As the PR analysis posted in the BSN, this is the ending BW intended. If it is to be changed, it won't be up to BW. It's EA's money, and EA will make the decision if there is anything to be made about the ending, after the usual cost-risk assestments.

For instance, this could have an impact on how the derivative Mass Effect works sell: The would be movie, the anime... and non rpg games.(I shudder at the thought of EA milking Mass Effect the same way LucasArts has milked Star Wars).

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

Evangelion, that's exactly what I thought... Bioware just pulled a Hideaki Anno. I'm sure that these endings have been just what some fans wanted and that's alright.

The difference is that the last 2 episodes of the tv-series was a result of Ganiax being forced to drop everything they had at the last minute, due to massive budget and production seclude problems. So instead of their planned ending, they made a introspective study of the main characters. Fans were angry with this.

In spite of the outrage towards episode 25 and 26, Evangelion became a hit, and so Anno went forward with End of Evangelion, meant as a more conclusive send-off to the series. While it was no less controversial and strange, especially in the second half, many fans ultimately felt that it was a more satisfying ending, in spite of its open-endedness, as many hanging and foreshadowed plot threads were played out to their logical conclusion.

Mass Effect 3's ending was, looking at the information found in of "Final Hours", planned from the beginning to be a "speculative" and "open" ending, and not the "conclusive ending" that would "answer all questions" that was advertised. Hence why fans are angry.

The issue is more that they tried to pull a Hideaki Anno, and failed.

 

[Telemachus]

I think ME3 was the best game Bioware has made, and has the best ending it could have. I trust Bioware to make games their best. They didn't disappoint here. Ending included. All of it was awesome.

 

[VoidWanderer]

The iPad only $2.99 app is meant to give inside info on the ending and development of Mass Effect. Everything that would've made this make sense: Fighting TIM, questioning the god-child... it was proposed, then scrapped. WTFFFFF!?

http://www.me3finalhours.com/

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1

Snippets from the original post:

Interesting Quotes:

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"


Casey on after Mass Effect 3
"Whatever we do would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after"


On delaying the game
In march 2011, he also faced a roomful of Mass Effect developers who expressed concern about hitting the promised holiday release date... New release date set for March 2012. After much deliberation, the CAT mission (or rather, the Prothean mission) had to be removed from the set of tasks. The missions would later be completed as post-release content"


Casey on the End Boss
We had the final fight with the Illusive man in the game, but it just felt very Video Gamey. It didnt fit in with the themes. And really, is there a point of the end boss if only for the sake of an end boss?


On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. On night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

Well, I was planning on actually finishing this game, but now I think I will leave it somewhere... next to that fourth Indiana Jones movie and 13th game on the Final Fantasy people keep telling me about.

Captcha: history repeats itself

It's psychic!

 

[wooty]

Still cant wait to buy and finish ME3, I take no rage and theories seriously from the gaming community anymore as it has a vast past history of overblowing everything into being an awful lot worse than it actually is/was.

 

[Antari]

Yes for another 2.99 you too can learn how our laziness and greed gave you a mediocre product. Oh EA, just when I thought you might try to hide it you go an let it all hang out. Its shocking to see, but not all that suprising. Thank you!

 

[Cobalt180]

Having played the game, chosen my ending, and viewed the resulting cutscene, I actually have to question where the whole thing fell off...

When Harbinger opens fire on the assault force, and you're left staggering to the beam, I didn't mind you were walking slow as your heavy belabored breathing heralded the extreme stress of the task at hand. (persoanlly I found the husks and marauder to be a little token, and ambient destruction could have been much more effective)

Entering the Cidatel, seeing the whooooole mess of bodies and stuff was interesting, but I don't think we saw enough of that, had we seen the Persidium or the hospital or something, and gotten a scope of the destruction, that would have let us know just how bad things were.

As far as the the Illusive Man goes, I think fighting him as any other soldier would be a little bit too obvious, he's always been the smart tough guy, and they handle his character well in the final scene, albeit crazier. I wouldn't change that. When Shepard is bleeding out and falls at that tiny control panel, his sudden being whisked away and 'all better' just to face the--what fells to me--shoehorned excuse for why I should care about the destruction of Earth (Kid), being the central AI and stuff, demystified the Reapers in the wrong way. I think that was the first problem.

I have a small quip I'd like to get off my chest: "So the Reapers said I wouldn't understand their goals? Darn right I don't!" The reason the Reapers reap? It was crap circular logic. If the Reapers were revealed as ancient war machines scouring the galaxy to keep a long-dead enemy at bay, or a rouge AI stating that since advanced cultures tend to monopolize space, the Reapers would clear the slate so that other races and species could have a chance to grow, that might make more sense.

EDIT: This could even be closer, with the final descicion being made as a" will you release the galaxy and let the new life grow? Or will you let the galaxy stay as it is, with every species deadlocked where it is now?"

The child could say that the current races are not deserving of salvation, becuase:
"The Asari hide the source of their greatness, not sharing in it's bounty." (Prothena beacon on Thessia)
"The Krogan will expand out of control again, as they did before."(Krogan Rebellions)
"The Salarians would maneuver to influence and take control, while not wishing to hurt their image" (Yahg on Sur'kesh)
"The Quarians would create life, and not treat it as equals?" (Quarian/Geth wars)
"The Batarians and the Turians will fight, as they always have, until there is no one left to fight but themselves." (Batarian vengence/ Turian meritocracy)
"The Volus are but businessmen, they do not know more than money."
"The Elcor are but sad victims, their slaughter is most regrettable."
etc.

Had that been the reason, you could go either way. Save them? Or let the cycles repeat?
/EDIT

As for the final decision, I think a prothean beacon-like device that showed Shepard the other conquered races of times past, and showed the bad sides of their society would even help the whole indoctrination thing, giving Shepard a sense of "I choose this because..." It could be optional, you may just say, "screw that movie" and go choose, again, if there's a 'back out' button, then it's possible. I think Bioware handled things the wrong way, or they certainly didn't weigh their options well enough. I have no idea, I'm not mad at the ending, I just know there are tons of plot holes that are created in the last second of a franchise that has so far been quite smart about a story suddenly screw up at the wrong moment, and I would think that were they to actually try to SELL us something that explains it all, it's an excuse, plain and simple, it's like when we try to weasel out of some work we KNOW we did bad on, and we'd hope the teacher wouldn't notice it, but then we get caught, and can't/won't change it, we make excuse after excuse and hope that the teacher/us will get tired and just let it slide.

 

[Frostbyte666]

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

This would actually be a good ending if they did it bioshock style with the slave obeys scene, though I admit the ending would be quite horrifying as you suddenly lose control. Though I admit that I'd probably still be hacked off that my choices in the series meant nothing but it would still be better than the current ending choices.

 

[Weaver]

I'll be mad if they say the indoctrination ending is the "true" ending because, if it is, they've clearly just leveraged it from some of the more intelligent members in their fanbase.

 

[A-D.]

You know Zeel, I'm still waiting for you to make a post on this website that doesn't use the word "fanboy". Guess I have to pull out the card again.

Unfortunately, he was banned a while back.

And while he is fucking crazy, I think the word "fanboy" has a place in the whole Bioware/EA discussion.

Was banned awhile back.......is that why he has a post directly above yours?

dafuq?!?! He has come back from the dead!!!

In all seriousness, a mod must have gone back on a ban or something. I am 120% positive he was banned a few weeks back.

Dont worry, he is one strike away from it.

On topic, the hell? So they are basicly holding it ransom? Or just..you know, selling the cut content as Textform or something now? Cause thats kinda what it looks like from here.

 

[SajuukKhar]

The ending is literally cut out of the game, and it has been replaced by the idiotic, pedantic, hipster bullshit that Walters wanted.

Do you understand? I core part of the plot and the ending that provides closure to all the decisions that you take in the game was completely excissed.

This is more than just the OPINION you have about supposed RPG elements removed, this is more than your supposed outcry over day one DLC, which has now been proven correct, even though it could be forgiven because he doesnt play an important role to the plot of the game.

Do you understand now?

Do i need to simplify things more for you?

Do i need to draw you a picture?

and you are agreeing with Sarjourkar.

Is my name really that hard to spell?

Also if they do make a new ending DLC I do think it should be free.

My dislike of invaliding the point of the series aside, I am firmly in the camp that if someone DOES make a new ending it should be free. Fallout 3:Broken Steel should have been free also IMO.

Apparantly no one at Bioware ever played Fallout 1, 2 or New Vegas. Just do a slideshow like ending showing what happened to everyone. (Cinematics for most idividuals you know, showing how they met their end at the hands of the reapers is probably appropriate.)

Obviously they have since they did it for dragon age 1 and 2.

 

[AgentLampshade]

Y'know, I knew when playing the game that this image would become a reaction gif. I knew it.

On the subject of "end boss for the sake of end boss" - Isn't that what a BOSS is?! Something to test everything you've learned? Something you can unleash all your pent-up rage on?

Don't get me wrong though, fighting TIM would've been silly, especially in that condition. But why did I not have a go against Harbinger? It seems wasteful to introduce an incredibly powerful black-hole/dark energy (can't remember which) gun to only use it once at the beginning of the game (I'm of course talking about the Reaper Blackstar.)