BioWare "Considering" Calls for New Mass Effect 3 Ending
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
I wouldn't be against either a full on change or just a closure added extension of what is already there. I love the game and had a great experience with it that I'm still enjoying thanks to a second playthrough and the exceptional multiplayer.
Either way, though, I'm actually almost more interested at this point in finding out what Bioware does end up doing. Given their response so far, it seems almost guaranteed that they will change the way the game ends. If not, I'd imagine they just would have gone "Sorry, it's done, like it or lump it" but they very clearly have not. It just raises some very interesting questions about art.
Sure the Mona Lisa wasn't changed, but the Mona Lisa also wasn't a piece of interactive art/entertainment. The Mona Lisa also wasn't built upon player interaction both in the nature or gameplay but also in the nature of story guidance and choice making. I will never ever argue that the view of the player is more important than the view of the creator in terms of setting out what the final vision of the piece is. That, however, doesn't mean that the creator can't listen to the player and perhaps reconsider their work. Even in the case of Da Vinci, some of his own art was based on what he himself considered to be better versions of what others did. Who's to say he wouldn't have changed the Mona Lisa had he lived in our times and had the ability to do so. And yet, he wouldn't be wrong either way.
Either way, though, I'm actually almost more interested at this point in finding out what Bioware does end up doing. Given their response so far, it seems almost guaranteed that they will change the way the game ends. If not, I'd imagine they just would have gone "Sorry, it's done, like it or lump it" but they very clearly have not. It just raises some very interesting questions about art.
Sure the Mona Lisa wasn't changed, but the Mona Lisa also wasn't a piece of interactive art/entertainment. The Mona Lisa also wasn't built upon player interaction both in the nature or gameplay but also in the nature of story guidance and choice making. I will never ever argue that the view of the player is more important than the view of the creator in terms of setting out what the final vision of the piece is. That, however, doesn't mean that the creator can't listen to the player and perhaps reconsider their work. Even in the case of Da Vinci, some of his own art was based on what he himself considered to be better versions of what others did. Who's to say he wouldn't have changed the Mona Lisa had he lived in our times and had the ability to do so. And yet, he wouldn't be wrong either way.
I'm fine with the ending I got, granted there's some questions unanswered for me, but it was good enough for my experience with it
I find it pretty silly of people saying that the "destroy the reapers" ending, which also kills the geth, is bad because they put so much effort into saving the geth only for them to be destroyed as well
it's not bad, it's the catch
you can save the galaxy from being exterminated but you will exterminate an entire race to do it
it's not bad, it's the catch
you can save the galaxy from being exterminated but you will exterminate an entire race to do it
The Mona Lisa wasn't supposed to give you one of sixteen radically different smiles depending on the angle from which you viewed it, though.Andy Chalk said:
The FTC thing is a bit much; let's see if they definitely close the door on an alternate ending before we get that nuts. If they do fix the ending, I'll happily let them off the hook. And hey, the four or five people who don't want a new ending don't have to download it. So everybody's happy.
It's cute that Bioware calls their fan base "Loyal" when they already have a lawsuit in the works.
Bioware is really good at offering player choice and then retroactively changing all your choices or just contriving some reason to make them not matter.
I'm firmly on the side of them needing to change the ending, because that was not wroth 150 hours of my life. (and it's actually way more because I have 7 Shepards)
Bioware is really good at offering player choice and then retroactively changing all your choices or just contriving some reason to make them not matter.
I'm firmly on the side of them needing to change the ending, because that was not wroth 150 hours of my life. (and it's actually way more because I have 7 Shepards)
Andy,
it is really not a question of artistic integrity. You are well off the mark.
I said one or two things about it (Shameless plug):
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354624-All-this-talk-about-artistic-integrity#14083908
And also Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/03/16/why-the-mass-effect-3-protests-are-good-for-video-games/
Basically, in reality companies are actively changing and adding to games all the time (specially in the era of DLC). And a lot of those times responding to fan feedback (see Lair of the Shadow Broker).
If you work with interactive media you have to understand that, otherwise you are selling short the medium.
Also, although full with artistic assets, the game itself is a commodity, a product that the developer specifically said that "would answer all questions" and "Would not have an ending in which you would have to chose between A, B or C options"
it is really not a question of artistic integrity. You are well off the mark.
I said one or two things about it (Shameless plug):
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354624-All-this-talk-about-artistic-integrity#14083908
And also Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/03/16/why-the-mass-effect-3-protests-are-good-for-video-games/
Basically, in reality companies are actively changing and adding to games all the time (specially in the era of DLC). And a lot of those times responding to fan feedback (see Lair of the Shadow Broker).
If you work with interactive media you have to understand that, otherwise you are selling short the medium.
Also, although full with artistic assets, the game itself is a commodity, a product that the developer specifically said that "would answer all questions" and "Would not have an ending in which you would have to chose between A, B or C options"
I'm up for them changing the ending. For me it doesn't seem at all different from Bethesda creating Broken Steel for Fallout 3 due to similar complaints.
I believe we'll eventually get word of a "Broken Omni-tool" DLC or something like that.
I believe we'll eventually get word of a "Broken Omni-tool" DLC or something like that.
Ahhh, so now we're back to painting Bioware as starving artists. That 60$ wasn't a donation to an art gallery for them to do with as they please. It was payment for goods rendered- which I didn't receive.
And art stopped being sacred when you started being able to commission artwork for money.
And art stopped being sacred when you started being able to commission artwork for money.
As I've said in other threads, I've come to accept the ending for what it is. Not good by any stretch, but acceptable. I'm actually torn on this. While I'd like to see a clarified ending sequence that cleans up the plot holes and explains the fate of the galaxy without a Buzz Aldrin monologue, I'd actually have more respect for them if they stuck to their guns on this. I can see what they tried to do (or were forced to do due to constraints) and while I think it's a terrible way to end the story, it's their call in the end. If this is the ending you wanted for your game, great. Stand by that decision.
Well, if the Mona Lisa's smile was drawn on an otherwise perfectly fine painting with neon-green (or red, or blue) highlighter, you probably would demand a change - especially if you're the person who's expected to buy it. If you say that a video game is art, it must be allowed to be criticized as such.
Otherwise, I'd be fine with alternate ending DLC. If I get a proper ending for free, Bioware would get another footnote of awesome in my book, but since I'm aware that making a video game does cost money, I'd be happy to pitch in and pay them for their extra effort.
Doing business with Bioware - which is pretty much what we're doing, everything above that is a nice something extra - has so far always paid out for me in the end.
By the way, Andy, have you seen how far off the endings were? Demanding "a new and "better" ending" is really not as ludicrous as you may well find it. This isn't some stupid raging by some people who didn't quite like the particular ending. This is 90 % of fans of the series thinking that the ending does the franchise complete and utter unjustice.
tl;dr
If you find a flaw in a product you buy, you may very well demand that the shortcomings be remedied; and while noone is immune to delivering a product that doesn't fit the customer's expectations, fixing it is usually considered good business.
Otherwise, I'd be fine with alternate ending DLC. If I get a proper ending for free, Bioware would get another footnote of awesome in my book, but since I'm aware that making a video game does cost money, I'd be happy to pitch in and pay them for their extra effort.
Doing business with Bioware - which is pretty much what we're doing, everything above that is a nice something extra - has so far always paid out for me in the end.
By the way, Andy, have you seen how far off the endings were? Demanding "a new and "better" ending" is really not as ludicrous as you may well find it. This isn't some stupid raging by some people who didn't quite like the particular ending. This is 90 % of fans of the series thinking that the ending does the franchise complete and utter unjustice.
tl;dr
If you find a flaw in a product you buy, you may very well demand that the shortcomings be remedied; and while noone is immune to delivering a product that doesn't fit the customer's expectations, fixing it is usually considered good business.
Don't do that to yourself - I'd still call it one of the best games I ever played. If you want to avoid the ending, just stop playing at that certain point and you'll be where you are now (no closure, no ending to the series) but about 40 hours of great playtime richer.Morbissus said:
Of course not. The "change ending" thing can be done in a number of different ways without butchering the Bioware's concept of the game. Andy's logic would fit perfectly in Bioware's ending.RatRace123 said:
And Bioware can even say no. It's their product. Hundred's of artists everywhere change their works based on feedback, specially commercial artists, or do you thing jingle's are the vision of the musician unscathed?
Bioware is the one who have to judge what is adequate and what is not. Casey Hudson said that the fans are co-creators of the series, let's see how serious he was talking.
So lets say someone gets the FTC to wag a finger at Bio-ware and hits them with a huge fine. Then what?
Does EA dissolve the studio and chaos ensues for a few years as different people try to form their own indie company from the ashes?
Do they point out one guy on the team to blame and he never works in games again?(cause crap rolls down hill).
Does EA interpret this much controversy as good publicity. Advertising they never could have done on their own; and decides more games need to have controversial endings to get attention?(Like a kid who sets a house on fire)
Bio-ware and EA give in to demand and make a whole new set of endings(free of charge since the government is making them) and its still not what everyone wanted?
Alternatively the new ending is so good that the the original teams never work on a ME game again cause they know they will never meet expectations and want to go out on a high note? so the string of crappy ME sequels that follow will be an confusing miasma of FPS, RTS, and MMO's that have little to nothing to do with original concept of the game but new generations who pick it up don't know any better and give them all perfect 10/10 and then you realize that your the cranky old man complaining about games being better in "your day"? and your posting all your angry rants with your 10 yr outdated I-pad sitting on a couch IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!
Does EA dissolve the studio and chaos ensues for a few years as different people try to form their own indie company from the ashes?
Do they point out one guy on the team to blame and he never works in games again?(cause crap rolls down hill).
Does EA interpret this much controversy as good publicity. Advertising they never could have done on their own; and decides more games need to have controversial endings to get attention?(Like a kid who sets a house on fire)
Bio-ware and EA give in to demand and make a whole new set of endings(free of charge since the government is making them) and its still not what everyone wanted?
Alternatively the new ending is so good that the the original teams never work on a ME game again cause they know they will never meet expectations and want to go out on a high note? so the string of crappy ME sequels that follow will be an confusing miasma of FPS, RTS, and MMO's that have little to nothing to do with original concept of the game but new generations who pick it up don't know any better and give them all perfect 10/10 and then you realize that your the cranky old man complaining about games being better in "your day"? and your posting all your angry rants with your 10 yr outdated I-pad sitting on a couch IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!
I'm glad to see some people coming around to the Indoctrination theory. If you listen to the Codex about indoctrination, then watch the ending. It makes alot more sense.
What do you meanRidgemo said:
godchild? It's a projection of an advanced AI, the projection is based on images from Shepards brain. And the Reapers can't be defeated conventionally. How were you to spread that kind of signal through the entire galaxy, if not through the mass relays? And civilization CAN rebuild for the future. As for space travel, finding a replacement for the mass relays will take a lot of time, but keep in mind, there is probably debris left that can, to some degree, be reverse engineered
That theory fills in so many holes and has got so many people excited I think that even if they weren't planning it before they'll probably work from it now...Daystar Clarion said:
This is good news (I hope), maybe even good enough to get people to calm the fuck down and start approaching this in a more productive manner. Communication and co-operation with fans is great, I'm just afraid that the people who are going to insist on being entitled dicks about it are going to drown out more rational debate and ruin this chance for everybody.
chstens said:
Spread it through the Mass Relays of course. I just don't see why it was necessary to blow them up in the process, leaving billions of lifeforms stranded, with fates so bleak and uncertain you wonder if it would have just been kinder to let the Reapers harvest them.
I was actually enjoying how productive people are about this - considering that a lot of players (me included) were terribly disappointed by the ending, I've seen a lot of constructive criticism out here. Then again, I probably blank out the rest.NinjaDeathSlap said: