BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC

[SajuukKhar]

No Zeel I never said or implied the whole team gets together on break, that is some BS you made up to deflect actually dealing with my argument.

The basic idea for a DLC can be done by ONE PERSON, and then pitched to the other team members.

Next time don't make sh** up in order to try to get out of an argument.

 

[SkullKing84]

"WHY DOES HIS HAMBURGER HAVE BACON? MINE DOESN'T HAVE BACON. I DON'T CARE THAT HE PAID MORE FOR HIS BURGER - YOU KNEW ALL ALONG YOU COULD PUT BACON ON THE HAMBURGER - WHY ARE YOU LYING TO US"

So what the whargarblers are saying, essentially, is that a hamburger is incomplete unless it has bacon on it?

I totally agree... and now want a hamburger with bacon... and cheese. 0_0

Its like when i sell my art. Guy A who just buys it, is only getting what he paid for. Guy B willing to dish extra $ for frame and other nicknacks. Is most likely gonna receive not only what he paid for ,but, an extra doodle for free, as thanks. If Guy A then wants a doodle... you bet your butt i'm gonna make Guy A buy it.

 

[daemon37]

Holy schiza I made a joke saying that this thread was like the special olympics back at 19 pages... now we're at 33 pages and the same people are still complaining about the same stupid crap.

GUYS GET A BLOODY LIFE!! ARGUING ON THE INTERNET GETS YOU NO WHERE!! YOU'RE ALL BEING TOOLS!!!!

WHAT!!? Arguing on the internet is pointless? But pointing out the obvious flaws in other people's posts makes me feel smart and important.

 

[Tony2077]

-instead of making half assed dlc during the games development, why not use all resources toward fixing glitches to ensure that the game isnt a bug riddled mess

-who decides what is core time vs what is dlc time?

-Integral or not, resources were taken away from bugfix duty; get ready for bugs!

-But its not really optional for people who want the whole story, which seems to be every current mass effect fan. The fans of the original have largely had to jump ship

-Open your eyes, this game is just Mass Effect 2.2, with extra microtransaction opportunities and kinect

You are aware that bug fixing teams wouldn't be affected?

Money was still removed from the budget. If you expect me to believe this After janurary thing, then they had to hire a voice actor. = money. They don't get to charge me extra because they want to develop the DLC with the original budget.

i don't think you understand how the voice acting industry works they get hired for a project
so if there is stuff done after its released or finished they still do voice for it since it part of the contract they signed.

......
What? Did it cost them money or not?

most times they make money on how well the game or show does and some times its a flat rate so it depends on there contract

Who is telling you this mate? Voice actors get paid by the hour, regardless of how well the game does.

i can't say since i don't work in the industry but they do have a contract

Reoccuring characters get contracts. Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer have contracts, but they are still paid by the hour.

I'm not sure how there pay works since I'm not sure how the industry works. some may be independents some may work for a company

So why did you start spewing out random bullcrap about it?

i'm just saying you may be wrong about it so don't hold it against me

Yes, I noticed that from you. Please stop doing that. It's very silly. You don't 'correct' someone if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Zeel here's how the budget is

Main games budget - to be used during the bnase games production

Last 2-3 months of production

SEPARATE BUDGET IS APPROVED by EA to make DLC.

Too bad they were planning the "DLC" from november. That shoots that silly theory, doesn't it?

Planning =/= Making


I'm planning to have breakfast tommorow morning, does that mean I'll be eating breakfast throughout the night?

Planning is apart of the development process though.

Or it could just mean

'Hey, I've got some ideas for possible DLC in the future. We'll look into that after the main project is done.'

Unless you've got evidence to back up your accusation, and I mean cold, hard, fucking not-made-up-bullshit facts, then just stop.

If I don't get some sort of link in your reply, I'll consider your argument debunked.

Two can play at this game.

Do you want the leaks or something? because it isn't just a sidenote mention of the Prothean. The Prothean is involved in a lot of plot related elements.

"accusation" Don't be so god damn melodramatic.

'sidenote' not proof.

Leak has already been debunked.

Argument has been debunked. Next issue.

hah! when has the leak been debunked? This must of been when I visited the moon and made out with 3 blue chicks.

Considering how the leak only mentions the prothean as being in the story, and nothing about his role in any missions etc, means that there is no evidence of this DLC in the leak.

The prothean is in the game regardless, the DLC adds side quests and the ability to recruit him.

Next issue.

If the prothean was being developed from November then regardless of what they added post Jan. The development started earlier and thus was part of the 'core-funds'.

No it doesn't.

Prove it. Where I come from, the person making the accusations has the burden of proof.

Show me the 'proof', then I will refute it.

That means links, you, actually posting evidence, instead of making up shit.

Woah woah, woah. First before we move forward. You claimed the leaks have been debunked. I want proof of that.

I don't need to prove it yet.

Like I said, the defence need only present when the person accusing has presented their evidence.

Show me your 'proof'. The fact that the prothean was in the leak means nothing, the leak mentions nothing of DLC or the role of the prothean in anything even suggesting DLC.

You have yet to post a link.

[sub]It's nice to use this law degree...[/sub]

I dont know what you're asking for? proof of what?

Prove to me, that the DLC was being made, or was even being planned before the full game was finished. The prothean being in the leaked script is irrelevant in terms of DLC, his existence is not synominous with DLC.

For this argument to work you have to be claiming that nothing from the leaks is in the DLC. You know this claim is false, right? because theres a big fucking PROTHEAN in both the leaks and THE DLC. Even if I grant your premise (surprisingly well thought of, by the way)The character was designed back in November. So, that designing process used core-funds. Even if they build on it from the DLC. they still sampled from the core-funds.

not everything requires money to do since i don't think me typing on this computer cost anything

 

[SajuukKhar]

Ideas for possible future content frequently do get pitched to other team members during breaks, I'm not saying they have EVERY SINGLE PERSON FROM ALL TEAMS there.

A writer or dev can go up to one of the higher ups during break and be like hey "I got this idea could we maybe do it in a DLC later on?"

And the higher up guy will be like "ill toss it around some of the other devs during another break or team meeting"

 

[Daystar Clarion]

-instead of making half assed dlc during the games development, why not use all resources toward fixing glitches to ensure that the game isnt a bug riddled mess

-who decides what is core time vs what is dlc time?

-Integral or not, resources were taken away from bugfix duty; get ready for bugs!

-But its not really optional for people who want the whole story, which seems to be every current mass effect fan. The fans of the original have largely had to jump ship

-Open your eyes, this game is just Mass Effect 2.2, with extra microtransaction opportunities and kinect

You are aware that bug fixing teams wouldn't be affected?

Money was still removed from the budget. If you expect me to believe this After janurary thing, then they had to hire a voice actor. = money. They don't get to charge me extra because they want to develop the DLC with the original budget.

i don't think you understand how the voice acting industry works they get hired for a project
so if there is stuff done after its released or finished they still do voice for it since it part of the contract they signed.

......
What? Did it cost them money or not?

most times they make money on how well the game or show does and some times its a flat rate so it depends on there contract

Who is telling you this mate? Voice actors get paid by the hour, regardless of how well the game does.

i can't say since i don't work in the industry but they do have a contract

Reoccuring characters get contracts. Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer have contracts, but they are still paid by the hour.

I'm not sure how there pay works since I'm not sure how the industry works. some may be independents some may work for a company

So why did you start spewing out random bullcrap about it?

i'm just saying you may be wrong about it so don't hold it against me

Yes, I noticed that from you. Please stop doing that. It's very silly. You don't 'correct' someone if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Zeel here's how the budget is

Main games budget - to be used during the bnase games production

Last 2-3 months of production

SEPARATE BUDGET IS APPROVED by EA to make DLC.

Too bad they were planning the "DLC" from november. That shoots that silly theory, doesn't it?

Planning =/= Making


I'm planning to have breakfast tommorow morning, does that mean I'll be eating breakfast throughout the night?

Planning is apart of the development process though.

Or it could just mean

'Hey, I've got some ideas for possible DLC in the future. We'll look into that after the main project is done.'

Unless you've got evidence to back up your accusation, and I mean cold, hard, fucking not-made-up-bullshit facts, then just stop.

If I don't get some sort of link in your reply, I'll consider your argument debunked.

Two can play at this game.

Do you want the leaks or something? because it isn't just a sidenote mention of the Prothean. The Prothean is involved in a lot of plot related elements.

"accusation" Don't be so god damn melodramatic.

'sidenote' not proof.

Leak has already been debunked.

Argument has been debunked. Next issue.

hah! when has the leak been debunked? This must of been when I visited the moon and made out with 3 blue chicks.

Considering how the leak only mentions the prothean as being in the story, and nothing about his role in any missions etc, means that there is no evidence of this DLC in the leak.

The prothean is in the game regardless, the DLC adds side quests and the ability to recruit him.

Next issue.

If the prothean was being developed from November then regardless of what they added post Jan. The development started earlier and thus was part of the 'core-funds'.

No it doesn't.

Prove it. Where I come from, the person making the accusations has the burden of proof.

Show me the 'proof', then I will refute it.

That means links, you, actually posting evidence, instead of making up shit.

Woah woah, woah. First before we move forward. You claimed the leaks have been debunked. I want proof of that.

I don't need to prove it yet.

Like I said, the defence need only present when the person accusing has presented their evidence.

Show me your 'proof'. The fact that the prothean was in the leak means nothing, the leak mentions nothing of DLC or the role of the prothean in anything even suggesting DLC.

You have yet to post a link.

[sub]It's nice to use this law degree...[/sub]

I dont know what you're asking for? proof of what?

Prove to me, that the DLC was being made, or was even being planned before the full game was finished. The prothean being in the leaked script is irrelevant in terms of DLC, his existence is not synominous with DLC.

For this argument to work you have to be claiming that nothing from the leaks is in the DLC. You know this claim is false, right? because theres a big fucking PROTHEAN in both the leaks and THE DLC. Even if I grant your premise (surprisingly well thought of, by the way)The character was designed back in November. So, that designing process used core-funds. Even if they build on it from the DLC. they still sampled from the core-funds.

Let's break this up, shall we?

For this argument to work you have to be claiming that nothing from the leaks is in the DLC.

No, you have to prove it, you're making the accusation.

You know this claim is false, right? because theres a big fucking PROTHEAN in both the leaks and THE DLC. Even if I grant your premise (surprisingly well thought of, by the way)The character was designed back in November.

Being designed is not a sign of the character being solely intended as a DLC character. Ever heard of concept art?

So, that designing process used core-funds. Even if they build on it from the DLC. they still sampled from the core-funds.

So what you're saying, is that if someone on the dev team said 'oh hey, maybe we should have a prothean character', and someone said 'sure, I'll do some concept art, see what we can come up with', a process that would have taken all of 2 hours, of it was even done on budget time to begin with, equates to the character DLC being created from the core budget?

Yeah, no it doesn't

 

[salinv]

No they are not Zeel, what you fail to understand is that brainstorming for POSSIBLE future content is usually DONE ON BREAKS.

A time that they are NOT getting paid, and NOT working on the game ANYWAYS.

You must really love Bioware. I mean, are sure this isn't a sexual type of relationship? This is a borderline fetish.

First off, You know no one is taking you seriously, right? Personal attacks, baseless ad hominem and red herring like this have nothing to do in a discussion or debate (or yelling match, as this seemed to be for a long while). If you had any valid points, no one (would) care.

Let me get this straight. The art team, the writers, the game designers, programmers, all came together ON THEIR BREAK to brainstorm a DLC? LOL

This argument is over.

During planning, you only get the project leads together usually to plan a project. You don't pull the entire art, writing, programming, etc. team just to plan some things; that is what the lead designers are for. It is inefficient otherwise. It isn't hard to see a group of 5 meeting over lunch, especially the 5 leading members of the entire team. Anyways, it doesn't have to be over lunch; a planning session like that could easily occur during the normal day. Is it really hard to conceive the group of people that do not directly develop the game (as in they aren't busy drawing, animating, coding, writing, etc.) could take a break for an afternoon and begin planning for the future, for when their current project goes on hold for certification?

 

[Tony2077]

well my femshep and male shep are ready for me3 so BRING IT ON

 

[SajuukKhar]

The thing is though the character wasn't fleshed out all the way even in the leaked script, that's more things you are making up.

Also his supposed "importance" really isn't that "important" in the script, he could EASILY have been rewritten in 5 minutes into something else.

You are so clueless to have games are made.


Also he oculd EASILY have been wiriten down in a draft script, ON SOMEONES BREAK, I know its hard to imagine but game desigers who like thier jobs frequently DESIGN MORE GAME STUFF ON BREAKS.

 

[That_Sneaky_Camper]

My god. Why is there so much nerd rage that it spans 33 pages? Are people really this obsessed over video games?

 

[Tony2077]

Ideas for possible future content frequently do get pitched to other team members during breaks, I'm not saying they have EVERY SINGLE PERSON FROM ALL TEAMS there.

A writer or dev can go up to one of the higher ups during break and be like hey "I got this idea could we maybe do it in a DLC later on?"

And the higher up guy will be like "ill toss it around some of the other devs during another break or team meeting"

Okay Sarah, If you believe it. That's all that matters.

I have trouble imagining a whole fleshed out character-relevant to plot and everything being developed on their breaks, but I know that'll crush your heart.
So just for your own soul. I advise you to just leave the thread and not read the rest of this thread. Obviously Bioware means the ABSOLUTE WORLD TO YOU.


If it was tossed around during a team meeting it officially becomes part of core funds. If they write it DOWN AT ALL its apart of the core funds. They wrote it down in the leaks = core funds.

you clearly don't understand what we are saying they can pitch ideas during breaks then it can get pasted on to the relevant team which if they have time to work on it so since the game was done they had the time

 

[wintercoat]

I don't know what's worse, Zeel arguing against the whole forum for 33 pages or the fact that people are still arguing with him after 33 pages. Seriously people, 33 pages. It's starting to get sad. All of the fun is gone, now it's just getting stupid. Just drop it already and move on.

 

[SajuukKhar]

So being brainstormed during a break when they weren't getting paid to work on the game is using core funds?

Are you serious?

Also fun fact, Team meetings were ideas like this are frequently presented to the other Devs aren't pat of any ONE games budget.

 

[Bat Vader]

I don't know what's worse, Zeel arguing against the whole forum for 33 pages or the fact that people are still arguing with him after 33 pages. Seriously people, 33 pages. It's starting to get sad. All of the fun is gone, now it's just getting stupid. Just drop it already and move on.

The best thing to do would be to message a moderator and ask them to lock the thread. It is a news thread though so I don't know if they can be locked or not.

 

[VivaciousDeimos]

*Catches up reading* Holy god. I wish I had a journal fen account, this would so be going on fandom_wank.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that Zeel hasn't been banned yet.

He's calling people morons, for fuck's sake, if anyone else posted the way he did, they'd have been forgotten by now.

I believe this good gentleman has the answer:

I'd like to think that the mods...nay...EVERYONE on the site is refreshing this page with a cup of tea, a bowl of popcorn and a massive smile cause this shits hilarious!

And while I have you both here, this is for you, for providing much funnez throughout the thread. Now where's @The.Bard? He needs one too.

Spoiler: Here you go

 

[SajuukKhar]

I could ask why are you so admit in your attempts to vilify Bioware when MANY logical alternatives have been present to why this DLC exists beyond "THEY RIPPED IT OUT OF THE GAME TO SELL IT TOO YOU LATER AS A SCAM?


Also I never said they scribble it down on toilet paper, again your making shit up.


Also I would assume you have never worked in a job with team meetings or that required you to make something?

Things like thinking up new future ideas and pitching them during breaks are commonplace in those types of jobs. You act like the second they go on break they just turn off their minds, or are not allowed to think at all, and sit there drooling in their seats until break is over.

If you like the job you do, which game devs usually do, people tend to spend even their free time during more for their job.

 

[Tony2077]

So being brainstormed during a break when they wernt getting paid to work on the game is using core funds?

Are you serious?

Also fun fact, Team meetings were ideas like this are frequently presented to the other Devs arent pat of any ONE games budget.

why are you so compelled to defend Bioware? You have to make up these ridiculous fantasies of like gamers scribbling down shit on toilet paper DURING THEIR break, just so you can defend them? It's insane. I think you need medical assistance.

we're not defending bioware we're wasting our time trying to teach you something

 

[Tony2077]

I could ask why are you so admit in your attempts to vilify Bioware when MANY logical alternatives have been present to why this DLC exists beyond "THEY RIPPED IT OUT OF THE GAME TO SELL IT TOO YOU LATER AS A SCAM?


also I never said they scribble it down on toilet paper, again your making shit up.

Also I would assume you have never worked in a job with team meetings or that required you to make something?

things like thinking up new future ideas and pitching them are commonplace in those tpyes of jobs.

You act like the 2nd they go on break they just turn off thierm idns and sit there drooling in thier seats until break is over.

thanks for the laugh i needed that the mental picture was awesome them walking into the coffee room siting in chairs then they start drooling all over them selves

 

[SajuukKhar]

thanks for the laugh i needed that the mental picture was awesome them walking into the coffee room siting in chairs then they start drooling all over them selves

I can't tell if he just doesn't want to, or simply can't, understand that people who like the job they do frequently do their job even when not payed to.


People who work on motorcycles/cars for a living frequently spend their breaks... working on motorcycles/cars. Games Devs are no different.




@Zeel
As has been said before the leaks were old and outdated even before they were leaked, and dont represent the final product.......

Ohh wait bioware lied about that because it doesn't agree with YOUR view right?

 

[zinho73]

Yet no one complained when they did the same thing in ME2. Somebody honestly tell me that Shadow Broker and Arrival aren't important to the overall plot of the franchise.

To be fair, Android just did complain about how it was wrong then, too.

I have trouble seeing this as important stuff, barring some major revelation that yes, it changes the plot in major ways. I'd actually go so far as to say Arrival was a bigger deal, and you're right. Very few people complained about that.

This is different. This is Day 1 DLC. On the day your game launches you know what do you want? People playing and enjoying the game with no content held whatsoever (big or small). After a few days, you can swoop in for the kill and grab more money with DLC - this is a social contract that we accepted (maybe we shouldn't have but this ship have sailed).

When you are too anxious to grab our money, some may take offense. It is like going for sex on the first date - some don't mind, but some prefer to be f***ed on their own terms.