BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
At the least, I can respect that. I personally loathe piracy in all its forms, and would never advocate it. I'd sooner advocate buying it used; at least dollars to GameStop are dollars in some region of the industry, even if it's just distribution channels. If you can look me... well, I guess replace that with 'yourself', since I likely will never meet you... in the eye and say there is, without doubt, no lost sale here, so be it, then.cieply said:
And... honestly, you used an Andrew Ryan reference, and then advocated piracy. I may have gotten hot under the collar, but damn if I can't recognize an opening when I see one.
I don't mean to urinate in anyone's Cheerios, but I bet piracy for the "Collector's Edition" is going to be huge.
If it costs 20 more dollars for the capability to add a character already in the game to your squad, and acquire a couple of quests, this seems to be... a bit high of a price tag for a little extra content. Most gamers are near fanatical, and see any lack of official content as missing parts of the game. It doesn't help that the character is already in the game, and thus the window for saying the content was cut is there.
It's the "Mass Effect" IP in 2012, so it's going to sell ungodly amounts of itself. I think they're just capitalizing on what they can. That be cut content or just additional small amounts of content for 20 dollars. It also doesn't help that the digital version of the game isn't discounted in any way, it's pure profit after bandwidth costs.
What they're really fighting is their customers. By adding a small amount of content for a high price, or cutting content and selling it for a high price, they really show a lack of consideration for a rundown economy and their fan base.
When fans no longer have any sense of loyalty to their game devs and publishers, they stop caring if they receive money for their work. When that happens, it puts these full priced "digital downloads" in direct competition with the pirated, hassle free, DRM free versions.
What I'm suggesting:
Publishers should recognize the signs of a downtrodden economy, and realize that while people want to spend money on their product, they shouldn't "nickle and dime" their customers. This helps satisfy the customer, and goes a long way for future business. If companies lose the respect of their consumers, and consequentially their business - if they're not pirating, they're just not buying.
But then again, there's also people who love that sweet, sweet financial punishment - or those with too much money.
To those who may be of such a persuasion- I hear Disney World is fine this time of year, only 600 dollars a night for a good hotel. That's quite reasonable.
If it costs 20 more dollars for the capability to add a character already in the game to your squad, and acquire a couple of quests, this seems to be... a bit high of a price tag for a little extra content. Most gamers are near fanatical, and see any lack of official content as missing parts of the game. It doesn't help that the character is already in the game, and thus the window for saying the content was cut is there.
It's the "Mass Effect" IP in 2012, so it's going to sell ungodly amounts of itself. I think they're just capitalizing on what they can. That be cut content or just additional small amounts of content for 20 dollars. It also doesn't help that the digital version of the game isn't discounted in any way, it's pure profit after bandwidth costs.
What they're really fighting is their customers. By adding a small amount of content for a high price, or cutting content and selling it for a high price, they really show a lack of consideration for a rundown economy and their fan base.
When fans no longer have any sense of loyalty to their game devs and publishers, they stop caring if they receive money for their work. When that happens, it puts these full priced "digital downloads" in direct competition with the pirated, hassle free, DRM free versions.
What I'm suggesting:
Publishers should recognize the signs of a downtrodden economy, and realize that while people want to spend money on their product, they shouldn't "nickle and dime" their customers. This helps satisfy the customer, and goes a long way for future business. If companies lose the respect of their consumers, and consequentially their business - if they're not pirating, they're just not buying.
But then again, there's also people who love that sweet, sweet financial punishment - or those with too much money.
To those who may be of such a persuasion- I hear Disney World is fine this time of year, only 600 dollars a night for a good hotel. That's quite reasonable.
CDProjekt is a polish company lol! Of course there's no DRM. You think they don't know how this would end? And of course, people buy their games. Support their own. You think I don't know how many of us are pirates? You think I don't know that the very moment a company shows some form of support, we jump at it and praise and love it to death? ARE YOU NEW?!
LOL! Report all you want, go ahead. See what happens.
Oh, so now it's ok when YOU put words out of context, but not the other way?Zeel said:
LOL! Report all you want, go ahead. See what happens.
If it was given for "free" to the collectors edition then it could have been given for free to the loyal customers who brought the game on release or new just like Zaeed. <,<
Fans don't buy collectors edition for fucking dlc, they buy it for the comic books, cool props and silly things like that.
So yea, feeling entitled for this piece of dlc is perfectly reasonable. Anyone defending bioware are essentially telling buyers of the game to spend 70 bucks for it.
It's like blizzard charging you 10 bucks for the protoss bit of their wings of liberty campain.
Except they don't and EA shouldn't.
Fans don't buy collectors edition for fucking dlc, they buy it for the comic books, cool props and silly things like that.
So yea, feeling entitled for this piece of dlc is perfectly reasonable. Anyone defending bioware are essentially telling buyers of the game to spend 70 bucks for it.
It's like blizzard charging you 10 bucks for the protoss bit of their wings of liberty campain.
Except they don't and EA shouldn't.
All right, fine then. On topic, as I said earlier, your fervor has convinced me that I should buy ME3 and the DLC associated there-in. To be clear, this isn't an attempt at trolling; I see Bioware's actions and your strong effort to boycott them, and I wish to reply in the only proper way I can as a consumer such that I can support them in your stead.Zeel said:
But I am not stone, sir. Without hyperbole, engage me directly. Tell me why I am a fool to do this, and return me to the zero state I was at before your venom caused me to turn against your cause.
Well I laughed heartily just at the title of the article. Not out of surprise but in an "I told you so fashion" that was so profoundly shouted at the empty room I sit in (yes I take a shot at myself.) Then after reading the article I realize how much I sympathize with the gamer. I mean really..... You're supposed to accept a person on a forum being supported by a person on twitter telling you that you don't deserve this content after spending $60 on it? Somehow Mr. Bioware I'm hard pressed to care about your needs shouted on social networking platforms. And their excuse is "well it would be hard to put on the disc in time for release." So put it out for free on LIVE? Tah Dah! Then you earn that little thing called "respect" which is so hard sought after in this field. Even worse they expect you to even buy discs anymore. Call it cynicism from a man who sits at the helm of a self built computer behemoth and a TV for a monitor but I've long turned down discs in favor of the F*cking internet. Seriously who needs the whole console/disc man thing anymore. Music gets it whats up with the gaming world?
That's the problem though, his existence ISN'T important. Staring at a guy who tells you NOTHING of important =/= importance.Zmazur said:
Also the protheans LOST, they got Destroyed, the ONLY thing they ever did was change the Keepers signal.
There was that suqadmate dialog at the end of Me 1 where one of your squadmates even says " for all this time we though the protheans were the masters of the galaxy but it turns out they were just like us".
People are playing the importance of the protheans way out of proportion,
You make us all proud, Zeel. Truly, we are all grateful for your enlightened mind, carving through all of our "fanboy wank". Because anyone that enjoyed the last two games are surely fanboys.Zeel said:Fanboy wank. "im excited, Everyone is angwyy. yay bioware". Glad you got it out of your system though.The Pinray said:Can someone please explain to me why the hell people are still trying to get Zeel's head out of his ass? Look at his forum history. The kid is on a mission. Nothing you ever say will change his incredibly angry and self-entitled mind.
You know that whole "Don't feed the trolls" thing? It applies.
Whew.
Anyway, I am abundantly okay with this. They didn't remove anything. They're adding him. He's not as relevant to the story as you think if you can beat the damn game without him. He's optional content. You don't deserve him. The game is looking to be an excellent title, even better than the last two (Which were amazing). I'm definitely excited.
So have fun being bored and grumbling to yourself in that cute little "angry gamer" corner of yours. As for me-- March 6th can't come soon enough!
Lets continue the discussion.
Thank you, Zeel. Thank you.
Also, I wasn't aware there was a discussion. Pretty sure it's:
You: "Zeel angwy"
Everyone: "Zeel, chill out."
You: "Zeel still angwy."
Everyone: Valid point
You: Disregard & Insult, stroke ego to help feel better than everyone
But I understand if you feel you need to defend yourself. You really are outnumbered here. But hey, glad you're getting that icky sticky anger out of your system. Feel free to reply to this with more snobbery. I can do this all day, sweetheart.
.......
.....
...Ah shit, I'm feeding it. Now I know why all these "discussions" go on for so long.
It might be completely offtop but 8 pages into the thread noone reads it anyway, but this is what makes me really sad. Something which is legal to do with every other goods, is being taken away from gamers and they don't even fight back. This is actually how poor people buy. I would never get a car if I would have to buy it new. And yet publishers will take it away from us, just because they can. And if they do everything they can get away with, I'm having a hard time seeing how we are supposed to be bad guys when we do the same but lack a small lawyer army.poiuppx said:
I'm mostly just not okay with the change in philosophy. In ME2, they gave me incentive to buy their game new, with a free character and a fair amount of content for free afterward - so I bought their game. Nicely done there. ME3 they decided, instead of rewarding our fans who buy our game at retail price, let's make them pay ten bucks extra for a Prothean squadmate. The fans are the ones who most want to see and experience all content in the Mass Effect series, so they're the ones most likely to buy, and they're the ones whose wallets are getting reamed. Pirates don't care, they get it all for free.
Effectively, EA/BW are giving people incentive to buy used and pick up the DLC later while still paying less than they would for a retail copy, punishing EA/BW for the move via them not seeing a dime from the copy of ME3 itself. (Used sales don't give profit to Dev/Pub.) Hell, people could buy used, pick up a copy of the online pass for multiplayer access and the dlc and still save money over retail + dlc.
Effectively, EA/BW are giving people incentive to buy used and pick up the DLC later while still paying less than they would for a retail copy, punishing EA/BW for the move via them not seeing a dime from the copy of ME3 itself. (Used sales don't give profit to Dev/Pub.) Hell, people could buy used, pick up a copy of the online pass for multiplayer access and the dlc and still save money over retail + dlc.
I'm totally on your side but I'd say please tell that to my mechanic. Talk about nickel and diming in a bad economy. lol. Just another reason I don't buy any games. Plus most of my friends play F2P games where guess what the system works, everyone makes money, and those that don't want to play and scratch can claw thru the ranks. I think this model could be the future of the frugal gamer.Heinrich843 said:
Agreed in full, though as Zeel pointed out (and you lampshaded) this is getting off topic. But I feel attempting to violate first-sale doctrine is a bad direction to take gaming in. Remove the value from new used games, and one thing that could lead to is a strong push for used games from PAST generations. Cheaper to build up a library of original X-Box titles these days, anyway. And elimination of used sales will only convince people their options are buy full priced or pirate, and as I said, I HATE anytime the concept of piracy becomes a valid option in someone's mind.cieply said:
But I digress. My point stands; if someone is morally oppossed to this and doesn't want Bioware to profit, but HAS to play ME3? There's probably a store near you that'll sell it used. Better choice than piracy every time. Or, hell, just wait for a GotY box and play something else instead.
You win in this thread, because that was hilarious and a perfect analogy of the people that are complaining about this DLC.Zachery Gaskins said:
---------
Seriously, if developers had to release a game with all content imaginable and thought up by them so that people wouldn't complain about DLC, games would never get finished and never be released.
And, as I suspected, the DLC wasn't part of the main game and was being developed after the game went to be certified to be packaged. The DLC couldn't be put on the main disc, and it is perfectly fine that they are giving it "Free" to people who paid for the Collector's Edition, because they paid more.
So, relating to what Zachery Gaskins said: If you want bacon, pay the extra money for bacon.
My issues with this are: Bioware rewarding "true fans" by punishing other people's common sense. (Aren't "true" Mass Effect fans the ones that didn't like the sequel, anyway?)
Day 1 DLC that's included with some copies of the game and not others, despite being brand new. If this was a Project Ten Dollar sort of deal it'd be sound, but instead it offers limited chances to get it when you buy it.
And, the siphoning of resources of what could be in the game into "optional extra content". I understand that once a game is finished you have so much to do beyond QA, and you'll have, say, an art department sitting around twiddling their thumbs. But if they use their time to make DLC that's available day and date with the release of the game itself, I see no reason they couldn't ship that with the game itself. If it was a substantial amount of work, it wouldn't be ready for Day 1 and people would feel okay with paying $10 for it. But it's not, it's one character; it's being neglected from people who buy the game new and then charging them for it.
Indeed, people who are arguing "it's optional content" aren't getting the fucking point. That kind of content is the kind of stuff you should include on the disc, then. If it didn't take that many resources, time, development costs or manpower, then isn't charging for it a bit of a swindle? Likewise, wouldn't a mission pack released, say, a month after release, for a similar price, be absolutely fine? Go the BF3 route - promise DLC to CE buyers after release.
I'm not pleased with EA defending their choice like this; I feel they're digging themselves a deeper hole. And I'm not surprised people are outraged. I'm similarly surprised people are defending EA. But, at the same time, it doesn't bother me so much that I'll go up in arms about it. I'll just not buy the game like I was planning to and move on to better products. The perpetual argument needs to stop; if you think this DLC is worth the money, you'll buy it. ...but don't say that EA did the right thing. They just did a thing. By defending their decision as "for the fans," then yes, I feel those fans who are left out are entitled to something.
Day 1 DLC that's included with some copies of the game and not others, despite being brand new. If this was a Project Ten Dollar sort of deal it'd be sound, but instead it offers limited chances to get it when you buy it.
And, the siphoning of resources of what could be in the game into "optional extra content". I understand that once a game is finished you have so much to do beyond QA, and you'll have, say, an art department sitting around twiddling their thumbs. But if they use their time to make DLC that's available day and date with the release of the game itself, I see no reason they couldn't ship that with the game itself. If it was a substantial amount of work, it wouldn't be ready for Day 1 and people would feel okay with paying $10 for it. But it's not, it's one character; it's being neglected from people who buy the game new and then charging them for it.
Indeed, people who are arguing "it's optional content" aren't getting the fucking point. That kind of content is the kind of stuff you should include on the disc, then. If it didn't take that many resources, time, development costs or manpower, then isn't charging for it a bit of a swindle? Likewise, wouldn't a mission pack released, say, a month after release, for a similar price, be absolutely fine? Go the BF3 route - promise DLC to CE buyers after release.
I'm not pleased with EA defending their choice like this; I feel they're digging themselves a deeper hole. And I'm not surprised people are outraged. I'm similarly surprised people are defending EA. But, at the same time, it doesn't bother me so much that I'll go up in arms about it. I'll just not buy the game like I was planning to and move on to better products. The perpetual argument needs to stop; if you think this DLC is worth the money, you'll buy it. ...but don't say that EA did the right thing. They just did a thing. By defending their decision as "for the fans," then yes, I feel those fans who are left out are entitled to something.
People need to stop saying everything is Ea's fault when this is for the most part bioware'sAndy of Comix Inc said:
I just noticed that everyone is QQing over a 'vital plot point' with the only information on the DLC is there is Eden Prime and a Prothean, a race whose only TRUE crowning achievement is the relay on the citadel. Almost LITERALLY all of the technology is technically based off of reaper technology.
On a separate note, boycotting this because it is important to the plot is ludicrous. If we're to believe that Bioware is telling the truth, than this mission was just a timesink while they waited for release (and the special 'Collector Edition mission'). This same DLC could have been released WAY after the launch of the game, and NO ONE would be mad, even if it WAS important to the main plot. For example, ARRIVAL. Arrival is a very important part of the plot for two reasons. One, Shepard buys time by stopping the Reapers from arriving, the main point of the DLC. Oh, and you know the whole destruction of an entire system thing. I would say that is a fairly good reason to believe that this is an important part of the plot. Two, it has been explicitly stated that our buddy Shepard is on trial for the events of Arrival at the beginning of ME3. If someone were to not pay for this for any type of reason, they are missing out on a vital plot point that is not part of the main game.
On a separate note, boycotting this because it is important to the plot is ludicrous. If we're to believe that Bioware is telling the truth, than this mission was just a timesink while they waited for release (and the special 'Collector Edition mission'). This same DLC could have been released WAY after the launch of the game, and NO ONE would be mad, even if it WAS important to the main plot. For example, ARRIVAL. Arrival is a very important part of the plot for two reasons. One, Shepard buys time by stopping the Reapers from arriving, the main point of the DLC. Oh, and you know the whole destruction of an entire system thing. I would say that is a fairly good reason to believe that this is an important part of the plot. Two, it has been explicitly stated that our buddy Shepard is on trial for the events of Arrival at the beginning of ME3. If someone were to not pay for this for any type of reason, they are missing out on a vital plot point that is not part of the main game.
The fact of the matter remains that Bioware took time out of developing and preparing the game for launch (no matter what they say; you would need to have taken programmers away from the deglitchifying) to make something that the majority of customers will have to buy seperately, because there are woefully few CEs available. With all the collectable figurings with DLC codes also trying to milk more money, I'm sorry Bioware, but I may have to skip this one (note the use of the word may; I'm still not certain); at the moment, everything you do seems to stink of money-grab.