BioWare: Mass Effect 3 Combat Perfected
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
I might be in the minority here, but I rather feel ME2 succeeded despite the shooter gameplay, not because of it. The action sequences were perfectly competent, and all, but they really weren't anything terribly special. And perhaps the greatest overall weakness of the thing was I went into every new place and every new situation wondering, "Hmm, I wonder how this situation will be resolved by shooting bad guys?"
If I was working on ME3 I wouldn't be worrying about the shooting sequences so much as finding ways to add more variety to the thing. The dialogue is pretty good, and the shooting sequences are okay, but just about everything else the player does- the assaying, the hacking, the tiny number of puzzles- is actually kind of weak.
If I was working on ME3 I wouldn't be worrying about the shooting sequences so much as finding ways to add more variety to the thing. The dialogue is pretty good, and the shooting sequences are okay, but just about everything else the player does- the assaying, the hacking, the tiny number of puzzles- is actually kind of weak.
I think Bioware making or not making good games is all just a matter of opinion. Jade Empire and KOTOR had some nice game-play. In my opinion I consider Mass Effect 2 a much better game than Gears of War. Like I said before it all just comes down to differences in opinions.John Marcone said:
The second that 'Improved Cover Mechanics' gets bandied around from someone trying to say why their combat is new and improved, I immediately shut off the paying attention part of my brain.
To hear that ME3 will rely even more on the by the number cover basey pop up and shooty nonsense makes me very sad. I had such high hopes for this game, but with every new press release it's getting harder and harder for me to maintain them.
To hear that ME3 will rely even more on the by the number cover basey pop up and shooty nonsense makes me very sad. I had such high hopes for this game, but with every new press release it's getting harder and harder for me to maintain them.
Reads to me something along the lines of:
"We're trying to copy how CoD, Halo, Gears of War, and Battlefield did it."
Especially that "to bring the combat in line with the best shooters of this generation." line that they used. There's one other cover based shooter out there that's big, and that's Gears of War. You want to talk about 'best shooters' and you're looking at the CoD, Battlefield and Halo lines for the most part and their design methodologies. Anyone really want that in a Mass Effect game?
I don't need Turian Mercenaries calling me a spawn camping whore.
"We're trying to copy how CoD, Halo, Gears of War, and Battlefield did it."
Especially that "to bring the combat in line with the best shooters of this generation." line that they used. There's one other cover based shooter out there that's big, and that's Gears of War. You want to talk about 'best shooters' and you're looking at the CoD, Battlefield and Halo lines for the most part and their design methodologies. Anyone really want that in a Mass Effect game?
I don't need Turian Mercenaries calling me a spawn camping whore.
Seriously, am i the only one that enjoyed all the different ammo types and upgrades in ME1? i really loved all the customisation and options. I think what pissed me off (storywise) about the stupid heat clips was by the end of ME1 i could fire my assault rifle on Full Auto almost endlessly using all its upgrades and my soldier abilities to pretty much do away with overheating.
Sure i'm an RPG nerd, i admit it, i'm proud of it, i love equipment management, i love involoved stories and memorable NPC's that you can either befriend or antagonise and i hate to see an RPG franchise that comes from the company that for over 10 years has made out and out the best Western RPG's i have EVER played, be turned into dumbed down FPS shooter. I know RPG's are on the way out and most of the industry doesnt even understand what RPG's are(my teeth clench every time i hear a game developer talk about 'RPG elements' when he means skill upgrades), but this level of fanbase betrayal from Bioware hurts...
If i wanted to play an RPG shooter i'd go and runthrough Alpha Protocol again (Sorry Bioware but warts and all, Obsidian can combine RPG and Shooter much better than you ever will)
Sure i'm an RPG nerd, i admit it, i'm proud of it, i love equipment management, i love involoved stories and memorable NPC's that you can either befriend or antagonise and i hate to see an RPG franchise that comes from the company that for over 10 years has made out and out the best Western RPG's i have EVER played, be turned into dumbed down FPS shooter. I know RPG's are on the way out and most of the industry doesnt even understand what RPG's are(my teeth clench every time i hear a game developer talk about 'RPG elements' when he means skill upgrades), but this level of fanbase betrayal from Bioware hurts...
If i wanted to play an RPG shooter i'd go and runthrough Alpha Protocol again (Sorry Bioware but warts and all, Obsidian can combine RPG and Shooter much better than you ever will)
For me the combat system of both games was kinda hit and miss
Mass Effect 1, the overheat system meant ammo was no problem (i often found myself running low on crucially needed ammo on ME2) and the hybrid classes were a lot more balanced, for example the Vanguard felt like a happy medium between Soldier and Adept, whereas ME2 took away a lot of biotic abilities and essentially made Vanguard a close range Soldier, which would be ok if your health didn't drop faster than a whore's knickers. But Mass Effect 1 had a lot of drawbacks. Overabundance of armour/weapons/gun upgrades/ammo upgrades found on dead enemies was annoying, and the sniper is godawful until you get training, unlike the other weapons which start of pretty decent and develop into very good weapons.
Mass Effect 2 had problems too. Select ammo abilities only available to certain classes (unless you chose the soldier, then you pretty much had all of them) The SMG sucked, and the mix and match system with armour, while good i often asked myself "do i need this stat or that one?" However ME2 fixed the sniper rifle, introduced some kick-ass heavy weapons, the ability to choose more than one ability at once for the squad
Classes on ME1 in my opinion were kind of crap. the short story was, because of the stupidly long recharge times for powers, best choice was going for a soldier, or a soldier hybrid. (personal preference being Vanguard) ME2 technically fixed this. The classes were tuned to be more-or-less equal with each class having a signature ability defining it from the rest. however, a lot of classes lost abilities (Vanguards lost Barrier. not cool) and some of the signature moves were pretty crap, notably the Vanguards Charge ability. sure it looks awesome, but if there's a group of enemies you didn't notice when you pull it off, you get swiss cheesed. plus, the decision to make Vanguard "a close quarters combat specialist" was pretty stupid considering it's a cover based shooter.
Mass Effect 1, the overheat system meant ammo was no problem (i often found myself running low on crucially needed ammo on ME2) and the hybrid classes were a lot more balanced, for example the Vanguard felt like a happy medium between Soldier and Adept, whereas ME2 took away a lot of biotic abilities and essentially made Vanguard a close range Soldier, which would be ok if your health didn't drop faster than a whore's knickers. But Mass Effect 1 had a lot of drawbacks. Overabundance of armour/weapons/gun upgrades/ammo upgrades found on dead enemies was annoying, and the sniper is godawful until you get training, unlike the other weapons which start of pretty decent and develop into very good weapons.
Mass Effect 2 had problems too. Select ammo abilities only available to certain classes (unless you chose the soldier, then you pretty much had all of them) The SMG sucked, and the mix and match system with armour, while good i often asked myself "do i need this stat or that one?" However ME2 fixed the sniper rifle, introduced some kick-ass heavy weapons, the ability to choose more than one ability at once for the squad
Classes on ME1 in my opinion were kind of crap. the short story was, because of the stupidly long recharge times for powers, best choice was going for a soldier, or a soldier hybrid. (personal preference being Vanguard) ME2 technically fixed this. The classes were tuned to be more-or-less equal with each class having a signature ability defining it from the rest. however, a lot of classes lost abilities (Vanguards lost Barrier. not cool) and some of the signature moves were pretty crap, notably the Vanguards Charge ability. sure it looks awesome, but if there's a group of enemies you didn't notice when you pull it off, you get swiss cheesed. plus, the decision to make Vanguard "a close quarters combat specialist" was pretty stupid considering it's a cover based shooter.
The shooter crowd isn't going to like it either. CoD, Halo and Bulletstorm area all AAA titles that put virtually all of their effort into polished shooter gameplay. There's just no way that Mass Effect can match up without either spending much more money than those games, or completely giving up on the RPG elements.Zhukov said:
I might pick it up if it looks decent now. I'm not a fan of turn-based/party combat. Otherwise I'd probably be all over Bioware. But I'm not, so I'm still going to say that Skyrim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dragon Age/Mass Effect. That's just personal preference though.
as long its not a FPS-RPG it will be fine, i mean RPG fans are everwhere some just don't know it
the 80% of the CoD-Halo crowd don't even know theres agenere called RPG, i know some that have played Mass effect, borderlands and Fallout and they swore it wasnt a "Zelda like game"
More power to them. If they asked me how to improve the combat in the series, I'd simply take it out. What are these shooty bits doing in my talking simulator?
Good or bad I don't care about the combat system*.
It's all about the story to me. They'd better give Tali, Liara and Jack their moments. As well as getting to see the payoff of letting the Rachni free, and forming an alliance with the Geth.
If they do that I'd be completely fine if they reduced squadmate abilities to 1 or 2, or took a Halo style approach to weapons and ammo.
* Even if I agree that ME1's combat style was easier to get used to. You've got to run into cover to take cover and if you press too much you end up jumping over cover? ARRGH)
It's all about the story to me. They'd better give Tali, Liara and Jack their moments. As well as getting to see the payoff of letting the Rachni free, and forming an alliance with the Geth.
If they do that I'd be completely fine if they reduced squadmate abilities to 1 or 2, or took a Halo style approach to weapons and ammo.
* Even if I agree that ME1's combat style was easier to get used to. You've got to run into cover to take cover and if you press too much you end up jumping over cover? ARRGH)
I liked ME2's streamlining. Most of the management type stuff tied up the combat sections and put more time between you and the exposition.
The cover based shooting, not so much. I had hoped for a more clever approach using biotics and such for ME3.
The cover based shooting, not so much. I had hoped for a more clever approach using biotics and such for ME3.
Stop removing my choices!Therumancer said:
Stop giving me choices! Wait what?
I see nothing wrong with opening up the weapon selection. For starters, it never made logical sense to me. Applying current conventions forward, modern militaries do not train their non-combatants with pistols and shotguns, they train with the assault rifle like everyone else. It's only the specialists that get into more role specific weapons. Heck, being an expert pistol marksmen is in many ways harder than with a rifle. At least in fantasy there was a better argument for "well the wizard just doesn't have time or probably the physique to train with something like a guisarme". I never found or saw a very good suspension of disbelief for why say an Sentinal only had skill enough to be specialized in Pistol, a ruling they were perfectly willing to break with the NPC characters. Garrus was essentially an Infiltrator who swapped Pistol for Assault Rifle.
From a gameplay stand point, I don't see why letting people play characters in less defined roles is a bad thing. Why should a Vanguard need to be pigeon holed into a close combat class, why does the Infiltrator practically necessitate being a sniper? I'd love to play an Infiltrator that uses cloak to close with enemies and then open up point blank with shotgun. As long as the "combat" classes are provided skills and buffs that maintain their advantage with firearms, I'm perfectly happy with that.