Bioware...*sigh*

[Jaime_Wolf]

Would you people please just stop.

In another thread I read that people bitched about DA:O's old school combat approach, so logically they had to make the combat more action oriented. And people still *****, even more so.

This is the most insightful part of your post.

It's not that gamers are whiny primadonnas that can't be pleased. No, this is Bioware's fault 100%. To me, this is another sign that Bioware is losing its edge. Since when is Bioware so headless and submissive to just simply throw in features that players call for without taking a step back to see if the changes work for the game, and contribute to reaching the vision for it?

Pretentious bullshit founded on the idea that true art/good creators shouldn't appeal to the masses. Plenty of people liked the game and that fact that it catered to their interests isn't indicative of some failing on the part of the studio.

Because that's, you know, the JOB of a game designer.

The job of a game designer is to make games. No part of the job description says "Part four: make decisions without taking into account the stated desires of your audience."

And is the cooperation with EA turning Bioware into an oppressive company that bans legitimate customers from playing their games simply for badmouthing them?

You mean the one guy who got banned by a glitch that resulted from the merging of Bioware accounts into the EA system and had the ban overturned with an apology in like two days? Or do you mean the other guy who we're not even sure is real and is probably just the victim of the same/another bug. They stated pretty clearly that a forum ban isn't supposed to prevent you from playing the games you've bought. So one confirmed, reversed mistake and one possible mistake without time to have been reversed, out of how many people that bought the game?

Generally I found myself liking Bioware RPGs less and less over the years. Ever since Baldur's Gate 2 did they start decreasing the scope of their games, actionifying the combat systems in them until the games they produce became a mockery of the games they used to make.

Alternatively, they keep adding action and a ton of people keep liking it and you're just angry that they're making games that aren't the same as the games they used to make. The recent games aren't a "mockery" (lol) of their old games because they're not intended to be clones of their old games anyway. They're not failing to be the old games because they're not intending to be the old games.

Bioware, just admit you aren't able to make games anymore like you used to. Admit that all you're trying to do is get the greatest common denominator of gamers to buy your games so that you can make more money. You obviously don't know anymore how to make a deep and epic RPG, because you're so misguided about the things that make them great. If you just concede this and move on to making semi-linear action games with good stories, that's okay. I liked Mass Effect 2.

I don't even know what to say. This is borderline humourous.

 

[KwaggaDan]

I find comfort in a designer constantly trying something new myself. Mass Effect 1 and 2 tried different things, and I expected DoAO and DoA2 to do the same. Personally I like DoA2, as the combat is more straight forward, but I also struggled on hard in DoAO, so much that I had to abandon the game after getting stuck [spolier] killing the Dwarven blacksmith in the mines.[/spoiler]

Good on you Bioware, just keep doing what you're doing.

 

[SageRuffin]

I say fuck everybody - I still enjoy BioWare for their games. Sure, DA2 may not quite be as grand in scale as the first game, but at least I can go into a combat scenario without falling asleep (and before anyone starts, yes, I grew up on "twitch" action games; relying on numbers is too luck-based).

So you like action games, not tactical rpgs. Your the type of person Bioware caters to now, so you shouldn't have any problem with them.

Um... do you have a problem with that?

Addendum: And what do you mean "I'm the type of person BioWare caters to now?" I've been playing their games since fucking MDK2.

Do i have a problem with you preferring action games ? Certainly not.

But don't we have enough damn "twitch" games ? They're a dime a dozen. No thinking and just mashing buttons put me to sleep, btw.

You don't have issues? Really? That wording from your first quote definitely states otherwise.

And I sure would like to know what kind of universe you've been living in to say that action games are "a dime a dozen". If anything, FPS' are everywhere, with no less than 3 being released within the last 6 six months.

 

[Vrach]

In another thread I read that people bitched about DA:O's old school combat approach, so logically they had to make the combat more action oriented. And people still *****, even more so. It's not that gamers are whiny primadonnas that can't be pleased. No, this is Bioware's fault 100%. To me, this is another sign that Bioware is losing its edge. Since when is Bioware so headless and submissive to just simply throw in features that players call for without taking a step back to see if the changes work for the game, and contribute to reaching the vision for it?
Because that's, you know, the JOB of a game designer.

So what you're saying is... player bitching shouldn't be listened to. Yet now you're condemning BioWare because people *****? Exactly based on what do you deem Dragon Age 2's combat system a failure or a backward-step from Dragon Age: Origins?

And is the cooperation with EA turning Bioware into an oppressive company that bans legitimate customers from playing their games simply for badmouthing them?

Read the article about that again. It's a mistake that's been corrected. And even if it wasn't corrected, it wasn't a ban, it was a suspension, one that would last a few days (3 iirc).

Generally I found myself liking Bioware RPGs less and less over the years. Ever since Baldur's Gate 2 did they start decreasing the scope of their games, actionifying the combat systems in them until the games they produce became a mockery of the games they used to make.

Congratulations. You have an opinion. One that's (generally) popular with older gamers and unpopular with newer ones. If you haven't noticed a pattern, old people like old things. It's because change isn't the favourite thing to most human beings.

Bioware, just admit you aren't able to make games anymore like you used to. Admit that all you're trying to do is get the greatest common denominator of gamers to buy your games so that you can make more money. You obviously don't know anymore how to make a deep and epic RPG, because you're so misguided about the things that make them great. If you just concede this and move on to making semi-linear action games with good stories, that's okay. I liked Mass Effect 2.

A business is trying to target the widest audience possible and actually maximise their profits? The NERVE!

Oh and what's obvious to you... well I'll just refer you to my previous argument. Although maybe instead of condemning an entire company over one of their products that you didn't enjoy (or at least not as much as you did the rest), you should point out the flaws within the product instead and move on.

I'm not that big a fan of DA2 either, but that's one game and it's all you're basing your argument of "your entire company sucks now". Oh and "actionfying" the combat is a good thing. It's a VERY good thing. I understand why you might like some of the last generation combat, but you should understand you do so because you grew up with it. Objectively, action-based combat is a positive step for the industry as a whole as it moves towards a more believable experience. And you'll be able to get your fix of non-action based combat still from indie devs, MMOs and browser games.

PS
Can someone explain to me what's more action-y about DA2's combat system vs. the one in DA: O? Cause honestly, I don't see any difference whatsoever aside from the fact Warriors/Rogues can actually do more than auto-attack now thanks to a better designed Stamina system.

Oh right, instant casts instead of cast times (this is pretty much exclusive to mages methinks?). Can you explain to me the logic behind that being a bad thing?

 

[ksn0va]

Stop feeding the troll!

 

[Keava]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but gamers changed over those years since Baldur's Gate, and obviously don't make majority of consumers. Studios like BioWare, being quite the behemoths don't he scene can't really afford pleasing just that small part of gaming demographic. The world moved forwards and you can see it with everything, games, tv shows, magazines, newspapers - take your pick.

Personally i really enjoyed DA2. Sure it had some annoying bugs (which game hasn't?).I disliked the fact that i couldn't fully customize companions gear, hated the recycled caves, i disliked the fact that even tho i could only change Hawke's armor i still got loads of drops for other classes but in the end i played the game for the story and it's presentation and in that regard it did not disappoint me. For me BioWare did good where it counts, and frankly they never were experts on technical gameplay ever. Each of their games had some quirks/bugs that annoyed many of the playerbase, but seeing Anders do what he did by the end of the game was well worth struggling through all those.

 

[Gunner 51]

Less characterisation. Less Story.

Hmm, I don't know about that. Isabella's story at least involves the MacGuffin that would have sent the Quanari on their way.

Spoiler

Especially if she didn't swipe it to begin with.

But the thing I did like about the characterisation was how it all got split up into three segments with the rest of the game. So the characterisation takes a fair old while in the game world as opposed to a few nights from DA:O. I thought that was pretty smart because most strangers would only open up to people like that after a fairly prolonged period of time.

 

[Squeaky]

Thier just changing thier demographic as much as i may hate them for changing thier games into a action games its just to risky i guess for them to do a game for a "niche" commuinty and with great success its just a great height to fall they cant risk making a brilliant game and it no selling.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I like a lot of the old games too but do you really want developers to keep making games the same way they did in the early 2000s or the 90s? I am a weirdo though who liked Dragon Age: Origins AND Dragon Age 2 equally.

 

[Snotnarok]

I still don't see what has people so bent out of shape, so far Dragon Age 2 has been great and ME2 was an amazing leap over it's first game. Annnnd then we get threads like this, seriously I think even if they made a game that was a game a billion times better than Baldurs Gate the people complaining WOULD STILL COMPLAIN.

 

[Nexus4]

Do me a favour..

Go back and play Baldurs Gate, KotOR and the original Neverwinter Nights.

Everyone fantasizes about things they played when they were younger and turns them into monolithic epic things which can never be superceded, but in my experience that's generally because were more easily impressed, not because the games were better.

In fact, go back and play a fighter in the original Baldur's Gate. Note how deep and tactical the combat is, certainly nothing like the action RPGs of today where you have to select abilities and click more than once in an entire fight.

This 100%
Nostalgia has that effect of making you forget everything that was wrong with those games, they were not the flawless, crown jewels everyone seems to think they are.

 

[Archemetis]

How many times am I going to see someone ***** about Bioware for the following reasons:

EA bought them.

They banned a guy from playing their games, but oh wait, they admitted it was a misunderstanding... Oh well, guess they're still evil.

Dragon Age 2 wasn't as great as I thought it would be! WAAAAH!

Seriously people. Here's three very basic points to consider here.

1: Yes EA bought them, oh no! EA is not very popular at the moment, and anyone associated with them is a sell out! Wrong! They didn't sell out, it's not like they cater to every one of EA's whims.

If they did we'd be seeing shit like: The Sims: Mass Effect edition!

Or Madden Age: Origins.

Bioware are still making the games They want to make.
They're still in creative control.

2: They admitted their mistake and apologised, stop crying about it already, I'm sure the guy they 'banned' has already...

3: Dragon Age 2 wasn't to your personal tastes That doesn't mean Bioware has lost touch with their audience, it just means it wasn't what you wanted from it.
Oh well, play a game that is to your taste and stop crying.

 

[Magthalion]

Note, Mass Effect 1-2, Dragon Age 1-2 are RPG games, in case anyone forgot the meaning, an RPG (Role Playing Game) means you're playing a game in which you assume the role of a character, and you can in many ways affect how that character reacts to things. You're playing a role. An RPG is not defined by having an "equipment mananger" or "adjustable stats", it annoys me how many people don't seem to know what RPG means.

On a sidenote, I did enjoy Baldur's Gate back in the day. But I also fired it up a few weeks back and didn't think much of it anymore. It's a game that was great in the past, it's not bad now, but it's not great either.

Besides all gaming studios are controlled by their income. Bioware for some reason attracts alot of rage, but ultimately would you see the studio shut down and go bankrupt because they don't try to release games with more mass appeal than that small niché of gamers who like the "hardcore" element of past time rpg's?

 

[honestdiscussioner]

I don't know what everyone's problem is. DA2 felt a bit weird at first, and there are a few things that I would have changed . . maybe made the darkspawn look the same from the 1st game, but I really enjoyed playing DA2. It was a nice change of pace from swinging my greatsword once every 5 seconds and having it miss half the time (full disclosure, I LOOOOOVED Origins).

 

[Beryl77]

I like Mass Effect but I think it's overrated BUT I'd say it's the usual problem when a company starts to change. Everyone starts bitching about how good they were back in the day and now they suck. NO that's not true, they're just different now, like their games but that doesn't mean they're bad, it's just that they're not that what you used to know and like but something different. People have generally a problem when things change.
There are various reasons why you liked the old Bioware games when you played them and now since they're different you don't like them anymore but that doesn't mean that they're starting to make bad products now. Maybe someone who didn't like Bioware, likes the company now because they've changed. A company needs to change and try out new things. If we stayed the same and never changed, then we wouldn't progress as a species at all.
I bet that if your first Bioware game would be Mass Effect and then afterwards you'd play Baldur's Gate, KotoR or Neverwinter Nights, you'd say that Mass Effect is better.

 

[Hawkeye16]

Yes. Because a game with a fun combat system can't POSSIBLY be a good RPG.

What that Mass Effect 2? You disagree? Alright I'll tell them.

Mass Effect 2 says fuck off.


EDIT: Yeah, I need to start reading the OP a little better.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

Do me a favour..

Go back and play Baldurs Gate, KotOR and the original Neverwinter Nights.

Everyone fantasizes about things they played when they were younger and turns them into monolithic epic things which can never be superceded, but in my experience that's generally because were more easily impressed, not because the games were better.

In fact, go back and play a fighter in the original Baldur's Gate. Note how deep and tactical the combat is, certainly nothing like the action RPGs of today where you have to select abilities and click more than once in an entire fight.

This 100%
Nostalgia has that effect of making you forget everything that was wrong with those games, they were not the flawless, crown jewels everyone seems to think they are.

I dunno. As much as I love the newer games, I could still go and play KotOR again and really enjoy it. Force Wave ftw!

 

[Gromril]

Lotta bioware hate kicking around, usually for the wrong reasons. I personnally like the new direction of combat in bioware rpg's. Shame the story has gone all wierd.

 

[Jezzascmezza]

I've never really been a big fan of Bioware, their style of games don't really appeal to me.

 

[Benjirimm]

I don't like the direction they take, so I'd like them to come clean and just admit they don't really care about RPGs or change their direction.

You think bitching about them in the escapist forums is going to make them do that? Take this to the bioware forums at least; this just seems like a stupid discussion based on your own personal opinion. I don't like a lot of bioware's games especially dragon age but I love quite a few of their games old and new, but that?s personal opinion I still think bioware is a great company but understand I'm not going to love every single game they make and that they can make mistakes. They made Baldur's gate at a time when it was more relevant to make a game like that, an epic game with a grand narrative and strong gameplay which they still make takes a lot of money to make especially in recent times. Money that needs to be made back, if bioware "sold out" or "don't care about RPGs anymore" they would just make a FPS. Instead they evolved with the genre and the current gaming audience but still keeping elements of RPGs in their games so they can carry on doing what they do. Not every game they make can be for you as a business they need to reach a large audience there not an indie developer they can't afford to make games for niche audiences. There old games aren't going anywhere play them all you want but if their current games don't please you like there old ones did find other companies that do and understand that a lot of people do like there newer games.

It's not a developers fault if you don't like there games or "the direction there going in" you?re not a investor, bioware still makes popular and award winning games they are 10 times better than a lot of developers these days based on the quality of their games.