BioWare Trims Mass Effect 3 Squad to Focus on Deeper Relationships

[kibayasu]

Jack better not be one of the member of the "more developed" party members. She's the wrost character BioWare has ever created. There had better be an option to throw her in a mental institute where her mass-murdering ass belongs.

 

[revolutionaification]

Much as I loved pretty much all of the characters in both games, I certainly support this. There's nobody I particularly want to see cut completely out of it, but I wouldn't weep if there were fewer actual squadmates.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Ashley/Kaiden relegated to a non-combat role, but that's unlikely to happen.
Jacob...well. 'Nuff said really.
If it came to a toss-up between Grunt and Wrex, I'd take the latter any day, but he seems pretty busy with Tuchanka so I'm not sure how heavily he'll feature.
Samara should go get on with her justicar-ing and such, and so should Kasumi and Zaeed. They (awesome as they both are) were hired, and I don't see them sticking around gratis, especially considering Cerberus funding has.. dropped to say the least.

Really, so long as I can keep Garrus, Tali, Thane and Legion (who really deserves more screen-time) I'll be happy.

Quality over quantity.

 

[tzimize]

Wait... did I see the words "Mass Effect 3"?

...

Yee gods, the flames! Take cover!

...

Actually, that sounds okay. I look forward to meeting Jack again, I liked her. I'm curious to see what happens to the rest of the crew. Here's hoping for more of Wrex and Liara.

And Tali.

*fanboysqueel!*

They cant mess it up, they just cant. God I'm psyched. Thank god I have Witcher 2 to make the wait shorter.

 

[Quellist]

Heh, this is the first thing they have recently said about ME3 that i dont hate. Seriously ME2 had too many characters and inevitably some got way underused. I just hope i get to keep my Quarian GF in the party with me...

 

[Hitchmeister]

"Well this is good because I never used more than half my squad in Mass Effect 2, so as long as I get my favorites, I'll be happy."

Everybody says that, but nobody used the same line-up as anyone else. (Well, obviously a lot of people did, there's only so many combinations, but you get my point.) So, realistically, one or more of you favorite characters are going to get left out and you'll be stuck re-recruiting the loser you never wanted on a mission once again. You know it's going to happen.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Disclaimer: None of that was a bad thing imo.

That said....Mass Effect 2 has no POINT anymore. It literally failed at the TWO things it did, namely, Scrap the inventory and Introduce the New Team-mates!

 

[winter2]

so... woow... I am not sure if they think we are all morons that are lucky if we can get our pants on correctly most of the time or if they are "distilling" the experience.. I guess we'll see.. I just hope to God that they don't screw it up on the last game.

 

[Therumancer]

SNIP

So why does cutting down the squad to the original ME size for better interaction and having your choices in stats to have more meaning in gameplay mean that Bioware is selling out to the shooter crowd...?

They have stated that they're working to add depth to the shallow ME2's RPG elements and yet we continue to ***** as they work on making the stats meaningful for combat etc.


But face this one fact. Bioware has changed. Bioware is not forever entitled to a single genre. Bioware works to combine genres like FPS with the RPG. Bioware had planned this even before EA came around. You can hate or love it but Bioware is clear that they're no longer servicing just the hardcore and I'm fine with that. Get use to it and quit railing that Bioware is some dumb crap for appealing to greater audience. Nothing wrong with that even if it doesn't appeal specifically to you.

Because, the game already lacks the depth that made the smaller squad selection for Mass Effect 2 somewhat nessicary. It's not really an RPG anymore with combat being resolved by numbers, and all the variables involved in terms of skills and equipment on each of those characters.

The larger squad selection was one of the few things that gave ME2 any degree of depth to it's combat, as they plan to keep the numbers and "stat games" out of ME3's combat all that going with a small squad really does is make the combat even shallower.

Now, as far as Bioware changing goes, that's obvious. The thing is that they are stabbing the fans that made them in the back, while trying to deny that this is what they are doing.

The major issue with Bioware is that they are insisting that they are the same company, producing quality RPGs, when really they aren't making RPGs anymore, but are rather producing action games with a lot cinematics attached. This is being done because while the RPG market is profitable, there is more money to be made from the lowest human denominator, and flashy shooter games. They are quite frankly, selling out, to go after the biggest amount of money they can get in the shortest time possible. The issue I have with them is mostly their attitude about the entire thing and trying to claim that they aren't selling out.

I'll also be honest, certain generes like shooters are mutally exclusive when it comes to RPGs. That is something that has to be understood. There is no such thing as a "shooter RPG" and never will be, because RPGs are defined by stats and how it's the abillities of the character as opposed to those of the player that matter. As soon as the determining outcome of things like combat is the player's abillity to move, react, and aim, it ceases to be an RPG. The problem is Bioware being in denial about this kind of thing, and trying to say "well it's an RPG because of the storyline and world backround" when really storytelling benefits any genere and is in no way specifically attached to the RPG format, even if it came into video gaming as a prescence largely through RPG games. The very first RPGs being devoid of any kind of plot and story, and simply being simple dungeon crawls with mathematically simulated combat and no real logic to anything except the joy of knowing you can simulate whacking something through numbers, math, and some dice to represent chance.

The whole "Shooter RPG" thing is largely an attempt by the gaming industry to look at two of the most popular generes, and hope that if they can convince the fans that such a thing is possible through enough propaganda, than people will accept it. The problem of course being that actual RPG gamers are smarter than that. Shooter fans like the idea because it makes them feel smarter, RPG gamers on the other hand know what makes an RPG, and were there because they like all their numbers, stats, and similar things, and not having those things determining the outcome means they generally aren't going to be happy.

This is simply the way things are. To be honest it's Bioware's denial, and claims that they aren't doing what we're watching them do that is annoying. Listening to a company claim they are adding depth, when they are actually REMOVING it, is what annoys me more than any of the specifics.

 

[mattttherman3]

Well this will make the playthrough for one of my shepards interesting(only Kasumi and Zaeed are left LOL)

As for who I want to be in my squad: Garrus, Tali, Miranda, Liara, Ashley. Wrex, Thane, Legion, Mordin.

Who will be in the squad for sure: Garrus(most people's favorite, will be epicly pissed off if he isn't), Liara, Grunt OR Wrex, Thane, and Ashley/kaiden.

Tali won't she will be her father's replacement on the Admirals. Legion is a maybe because of the whole concensus thing, I doubt he can become the Geth "leader". Samara is a no, because I believe she was just an added character(and why the hell would Morinth want to help you if she's alive). Kasumi, Zaeed, Jack, Jacob all resounding NO's, because they are the least liked characters.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I don't mind the idea of less party members but with deeper interactions, even with those not available for your actual crew.. but I'll be very disappointed if Miranda isn't along for the ride (particularly given the way the game ends with her by your side).

Instead they are putting in more cartoons (ie cut scenes with dialogue selection options) and claiming that this makes for "deeper role-playing" when in reality this game isn't even an RPG anymore given that they have removed pretty much all the combat stats, and most of the itemization, really the only bit left that had any depth was squad selection due to their differant abillities and how having 11 to 13 choices gave you all kinds of options in terms of pairings, and now they are stripping that way too.

In the rest of the article, and the forum post that leaked it, this was taken from (which for some reason they didn't provide any mention of), Bioware actually does address things like character customization and itemization.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect/Mass-Effect-General-Discussion-NO-SPOILERS-ALLOWED/Xbox-World-Magazine-ME3-info-ULTRA-Spoilerific-7352856-1.html

"Every weapoin is modular and can be customised with up to five modifcations; scopes increase a rifle's zoom factor, new barrels increase accuracy or damage. Sling your gun on a workbench and it can be customised for a job at hand."

"We've taken a lot of feedback from the Mass Effect community," says Hudson. "more than anything, people want us to deepen the RPG aspect of the experience. Now, that isn't necessarily something traditional; about stats and loot; we see it as being more about exploration and making a good character-driven story with intelligent decision-making in how you progress."

"We had that sense in ME2, but only in a few areasregarding your armour choices, your weapon choices and the things you find. That activity chain was too simple and it didn't allow you to make choices that could customise your experience. You could choose different weapons and stuff like that but you couldn't invest in the weapons like you can in ME3. You can see how modifications change different attributes, and start making choices about your value and which ones you would rather sell and which ones you think are rare. That whole activity coain was a button we weren't really pushing in ME2 and something we're trying to hit throughout ME3"

They also go on to talk about how the combat will be more strategic and open than the sit behind a chest high wall tedium of many current 3rd person shooters.

 

[radioactive lemur]

As long as it has Garrus and Mordin, nothing much will change for my loadout. Oh man if they touch Mordin I'm gonna be seriously pissed off. Jacob seriously needs to go, he's boring. Miranda, Jack, Grunt, Tali and Thane can stay or leave without me caring too much. I wouldn't be happy if they got rid of anyone else.

 

[Zay-el]

I kind of agree with this. The squad in ME2 was simply too big and though I loved the characters, it just made it even worse, since I felt like I was neglecting them.

 

[ninja51]

Does Mass Effect count as an RPG anymore? Well at least the first one is still a beyond incredible game and the second one is still pretty dang enjoyable

 

[Tharwen]

I hope they try to think about the characters from a gameplay perspective too. I know people mainly clamour about Mass Effect because of the story and the crew interactions, but it would be nice for each character to have a definite combat role, so we aren't forced to make an arbitrary choice between two similar characters.

Wait, how could they change much? From what I've seen and read, ME3 will take place right after Arrival.

It might be another ME2-ish scenario, where the intro takes place right after the prequel, but there's a bit of a gap in which large reserves of plot-deviceium are found and the characters have some time to change their outfits around a bit.

I don't really know though. I haven't been following this very closely at all.

 

[rankfx]

Oh man... I actually liked having so many characters in ME2. I'm going to guess it will be cut down to 6 with some DLC characters like Me1 and DA2. Probably Kaiden/Ashley and Liara, also I can't see Garrus or Tali coming this far and not coming along. That said- depending on who survived the last mission in the second game- they wouldn't want to hobble the player for an entire game because they thought Garrus could go through an air vent.

 

[Electric Alpaca]

I don't like this news.

I quite enjoyed the many different arcs presented in ME2, even though it devalued the entire plot of the game.

I suppose it's a necessary trade off - but coming after news stating that EA is toning down the RPG elements and bolstering the gunplay I can only wonder what shell of a game is going to be released.

Plus reading between the lines - a game being delayed so far in advance is usually down to a dynamic change in direction.

...This industry has turned me into a cynic

 

[MirrorForTheSun]

Dear BioWare: If you're ever thinking of using the word "streamlining," go back to your press release and figure out what you're actually trying to say, because as it stands, it's meaningless corporatese. I know that meaninglessness is why you chose it, because you don't want us to know what product we're buying until we actually get it, but clear, transparent language is absolutely the best way to approach your customers. We can tell if you're trying to take us for a ride, and we will resent you for it.

I have high hopes for Mass Effect 3. I do not have high hopes for your PR department. They have systematically dropped the ball on every single level starting with Dragon Age 2. Their approach has been haphazard and contradictory from the start, and it is making your customers uneasy. Please fix this.

Also, OT:
I don't mind bringing the cast down. I used perhaps 4 characters in ME2 on a regular basis. Dragon Age didn't have as large a cast and its characterization was mostly excellent. I can only hope this means I can have more than four conversations with Garrus.

Sincerely,
Me

 

[CaptainLoserPants]

I'm not upset by this. I didn't want them to overload us with new characters at the end of a series. As long as I can have Grunt and Wrex and Garrus in my party all will be fine. And Thane. We can wheel him on his deathbed into battle. You can shoot, Thane, while lying down and dyin'...stop whining. AND MORDIN. MAY HE LIVE FOREVER

Soooo looking forward to this game. If the world ends in 2012, whatever...at least I would've played this game. XD

 

[white_salad]

This makes me such a happy camper. And aslong as the characters who aren't main party members get at least a breif cameo or at least a quick talking to, all will be well in my mind.

I want this to be the complete end of this story arc. I want people to die, relationships to be fully established, endings to battles, and want to see my choices from all my play throughs to be fulfilled. I let the racki live, I want to see the consequences from this decision.

Also...I'm kind of rooting for shephard to die, just so this story arc is thoroughly ended.