Bioware vs. their Fans

Warachia

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hazabaza1 said:
I still like 'em
Sure, Mass Effect 3's ending sucked, and Dragon Age 2 wasn't as good as the first, but I'd rather play a Bioware game over many other games being release nowadays.
I completely agree, although I don't understand how other companies can keep fans when you compare them, like bethesda and obsidian, where they put out half finished products, and yet people will overlook all of their faults for some reason.
 

Flailing Escapist

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dreadedcandiru99 said:
ThePS1Fan said:
I'm not sure, employees are probably singed to contracts and the name will most likely stay with EA no matter what, however there is a chance, however slim that BioWare could one day be EA free, under a new name most likely.
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Bungie signed a contract with Microsoft that ended with Reach, so theres that.

I think EA bought Bioware outright, so theres no way they are getting away from them unless someone buys Bioware from EA, which wont happen.

RIP Bioware.
...crap.

Well, I've always meant to get more into indie games, anyway. Are there any independent RPG developers? I can't think of any off the top of my head...
I hear there might be a good, indie viking rpg [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115914-BioWare-Vets-Will-Develop-Indie-Viking-Game] coming out in a year or two. Might be able to hold out until then?
 

80Maxwell08

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No offence but did you forget about their forums where the mods just go ban crazy and censor anything they don't like. Stanley Woo is legendary for his mass banning. Then we get into the absolutely absurd banning in SWTOR.
 

ThePS1Fan

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dreadedcandiru99 said:
ThePS1Fan said:
I think Bethesda are indie :p
Ah. For some reason I didn't think they qualified. (Probably because they have money. Somehow I got it into my head that brokeness is critical to indieness.) I got Skyrim months ago, but I was never able to really get into it, mainly because I didn't really care about the characters all that much. Because Bioware got me in the habit of expecting awesome characters. Dammit.
The Bioware paradox, you can't play their games because they're owned by EA but you can't play other games because they aren't Bioware games.
 

dreadedcandiru99

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Flailing Escapist said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
...crap.

Well, I've always meant to get more into indie games, anyway. Are there any independent RPG developers? I can't think of any off the top of my head...
I hear there might be a good, indie viking rpg [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115914-BioWare-Vets-Will-Develop-Indie-Viking-Game] coming out in a year or two. Might be able to hold out until then?
Hey, that might work. It's being made by former Bioware guys, too. Will have to keep an eye on this.
 

Lunar Templar

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CaptOfSerenity said:
Over the past few years, Bioware's relationship with fans has gotten so volatile that it resulted in a lawsuit.
>.> since ME3 is pretty much Origin only, aren't PC users not allowed to sue due to the ToS Origin has, or they fix that? or, (more likely) i misunderstand the 'thou shalt not sue' line in the ToS

ether way

since my 'exposure' to Bioware was more or less after EA got them, i don't get what was so good about them to begin with, i even went back and tried playing KoToR and it was just, boring, so yeah, can't say i get the big deal here, just another 'meh' dev falling off to me.

granted, i remember when the 'holy trinity of gaming' was Nintendo/Capcom/Konami and... all of them have pretty much fallen off to :/ which is far more rage/depression inducing then Bioware falling off will ever be to me. that said, i can at least sympathize a little with this :/
 

Hal10k

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ThePS1Fan said:
I think Bethesda are indie :p
Bethesda Game Studios (the dev team) are employed by Bethesda Softworks (the publisher), who are themselves owned by Zenimax Media (the bigger publisher). But BGS is really just an in-house team for Bethesda Softworks, and Zenimax was founded by the BethSoft owners. So it's sort of a weird, snake-eating-its-own-tail situation.
 

Vigormortis

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Lionsfan said:
Is there any game-developer that hasn't gone through this? I don't think it's just a Bioware exclusive
It's not, but a few that have gone through this didn't suffer the breadth nor scope of this mass-opinion change.

Sure, Blizzard, Valve, Rockstar, and others have been vilified by some of their die-hard fans (for one reason or another, regardless of whether the reasons were valid or not) but no where near to the extent Bioware has by damn near the majority of it's die-hard fan base.

It's startling really. I understand the ire fans have over Bioware essentially "phoning it in" for the finale, but to completely write off the company entirely is a bit extreme.

Sure, they're owned almost entirely by EA at this point (not completely, but give EA time. they find ways.), but they haven't completely changed. They're still making games in the same vein as they were in the past. For the most part anyway.

Therefore, if any of you were fans of them in the past you still should be. If you suddenly aren't, maybe you need to reassess how much of a "fan" you actually were back then.
 

Vigormortis

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ThePS1Fan said:
I think Bethesda are indie :p
No. Not really.

Bethesda is not only a fairly large development studio, with several branches, they're also a fairly large publisher. Regularly publishing games for a good number of other studios.

They are effectively a smaller EA or Activision. Much smaller, granted, but still a pretty big publisher. Especially given that Bethesda is owned by it's parent company Zenimax.

[edit]
Also, what Hal10k said.
 

DazBurger

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I still love Bioware.
They gave me KOTOR, Jade Empire, ME 1, 2 and 3.. And even though the 2nd one had it faults, it was still awesome.
And ME3 is an awesome game!.. For the most part! My only beef is the ending, which makes my ridiculous amount of hours played and all the choices iv ever made non-important.
The game rises beyond and above then simply deflates in a drawn out farting noise like a balloon, when what I wanted was a bang.

I can't believe that this is the work of the same people who stands for all I love about Bioware.. And judging by recent reports, it seems like I'm right.

There are good people at Bioware as well as bad.. And right now we need to shun the bad apples away to the good folks can take over again.
We need to keep them lean and fit so they wont start thinking that we will accept everything they throw at us, regardless of quality!
 

sabercrusader

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You know, this is pretty accurate, doesn't mean I hate Bioware now, maybe distrust them, but not hate. This solidifies my belief that EA is the main reason for all of this. Including the Mass Effect 3 endings. Fuck EA.

CAPTCHA: easy as cake

I like cake.
 

VonKlaw

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I can only speak for myself here, but the only thing that has changed from my point of view has been that I won't just pre-order Bioware blindly like I did with DA2 anymore.

They still make (arguably) great games, but I ain't hurling money at them anymore based on marketing bullshit and past experiences alone.
 

dreadedcandiru99

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VonKlaw said:
I can only speak for myself here, but the only thing that has changed from my point of view has been that I won't just pre-order Bioware blindly like I did with DA2 anymore.

They still make (arguably) great games, but I ain't hurling money at them anymore based on marketing bullshit and past experiences alone.
This, basically. I tried to stick up for DA2 in spite of its many problems (I think my exact words were something like "hey, a mediocre Bioware game is still better than most other crap"), but the ME3 ending is utterly indefensible. Even if they do fix it, I think I may finally be done paying full price to pre-order collector's editions and strategy guides six months in advance, sight unseen.
 

J Tyran

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Sometimes people look through rose tinted glasses and forget the truth, like with the Mass Effect series. Mass Effect has many flaws, the overall story is better in ME1 but its still badly written in a lot of places with its lame romances and cheesy dialogue. The environments where endless copy pastes and the inventory system was beyond hopeless, and the items that went into it where hopeless. Much of the equipment was superfluous, you basically had four guns and three types of armour.

After that everything was the same it just had higher stats, compare that to the way armour and guns in the sequels has very different characteristics. Many of the side quests where garbage, more copy pasted environments with about 4 types of building or bunker and featureless hills and mountains on a huge mostly empty map. The combat was uninspiring and powers poorly balanced, the rubbish selection of firearms made it seem worse too.

Still the story and atmosphere more than saved it, the drama and character interactions where great when the didn't feel cheesy, forced or artificial.

Than you have Mass Effect 2, if ME3 ended on a retarded note ME2 began with one. Shepard coming back from the dead? Really? Come on, out of the things they could have started with like Shepard barley surviving or found by slavers and locked up for two years or any number of feasible ideas Bioware had to make Shepard into space Jesus that died for everyone sins and came back to life to save everyone.

The story started off badly but it did pick up though, ignoring the cheesy and forced dialogue thats par for the course in a Bioware game the chars where pretty good. The main quests where interesting and the expansion of the squad mate quests in ME into the loyalty quest idea was nice as well. ME2s problems mainly came from the almost total removal of the RPG elements, and while the equipment distinction was better there wasn't much choice, even with DLC. Mining was dreadful, I don't know who sat down at Bioware and thought that it would be a good replacement for exploration but I bet they wear their pants on their head.

ME3 has a lot of flaws along with its ending but it solved some of the issues in the first two games. The RPG elements where back and better than ever, being able to evolve skills into one of two paths allows you really tailor a chars skills. Not only are weapons really distinctive there are loads of them, same with the armour. Tailoring your char and load out means you can hone any number of playstyles. The cheesy, artificial and forced dialogue is still there but there are some really nice features, instead of just going to the squadmate on the ship and having a conversation the crew interact with each other and roam around the ship.

You can also have more natural feeling relationships with the crew as well, you can go for a drink on the citadel, invite a friend for a game of chess and other things like that. That makes it seem much more immersive than standing in the same place talking.

Each game had its good parts and its bad parts, but neither ME or ME2 where some kind of sacrosanct, perfect and flawless paragon of a RPG that people make them out to be.
 

Atmos Duality

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J Tyran said:
Mass Effect has many flaws, the overall story is better in ME1 but its still badly written in a lot of places with its lame romances and cheesy dialogue.
To be fair, the dialog is done that way intentionally.
ME1 at the very least, was stated as being a direct homage to cheesy 1970s sci-fi shows.
They even have a 70s film-grain option under the video settings.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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I won't rule out any game just because its developer has dropped a few balls. However, I will be far more cautious of Bioware titles simply because they are owned by EA. I really didn't mind Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age 2 nearly as much as everyone else. I also mostly enjoyed Mass Effect 3 besides a bunch of stupid changes, less dialogue/RPG aspects and a lot of terrible writing/ending.
 

trooper6

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Not "Fans," but rather "Some Fans."

I'm a Bioware fan who loved DA2 and ME3. I feel like Bioware has only gotten better over time.

I liked KotOR, but I felt that KotOR 2 was better...the writing was better, more gray and less black and white.
With ME2/3 and DA:O/DA3 I feel like Obsidian rubbed off on them and their plots were more interesting and in depth.
I've been particularly impressed with the experimentation and risks they've taken in narrative really working to do something different and new with RPG conventions. I loved the darkness they've injected into the newer games. I really love the things they done to decenter the protagonist in interesting ways.

I think it is great that people hit on you in DA2, and that you aren't the most powerful person in Kirkwall, and that it is a city based game. I love that there are some bad things that you can't stop. I love that sometimes the best outcomes come from being diplomatic and that sometimes the best outcomes come from being aggressive.

I love the Dwarven levels in DA:O.

I love the opening death in ME2, and that some of your team mates can end up dead if you haven't done enough and don't know them well enough...and that then, is that.

I love the ending of ME3. I love the real personal touches with your teammates. The inside jokes, the humor, the care. They had me getting teary multiple times throughout that game. I love how well crafted the entire ME3 is.

Yeah, for me...I think Bioware has only been getting better and better. I just with they'd not have pulled back on the love scenes due to the alien side boob Fox news scandal. But the addition of male-male romance, the addition of a female Shep cover for ME3 as well as a male Shep cover. They have great politics and clearly care a lot about their work. I will, without hesitation, pre-order any game they put out in the next 5 years. They have my loyalty.
 

AugustFall

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I've heard no complaints about the gameplay. No complaints until ME3's ending in fact. If the ending sucks it sucks. Everyone needs to stop complaining and move on with their lives. It was clearly a very good game until the end. Then I guess it sucked. So what? Disappointing sure but for god's sake you don't need to dedicate your life to saving the canon.
The prequel trilogy sucked in star wars. It ruined Darth Vader for me but I don't want George Lucas rewrite or write it off as non-canon. It's his story I'm just there for the ride. If it sucks it sucks.