Bioware vs. their Fans

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

The funny part is how even "bad" BioWare games can still be considered a lot better than a lot of what else there is on the gaming market, though still gonna be a while until next time I buy one of their games. Maybe if/when their new releases make their way to Steam, and then have a special discount.

Then in turn, the reason why they're not on Steam is because EA had to get whiny about Steam's DLC policies. Is it really that bad that one of the criterias for having a game available on Steam is that the DLC for that game should also be available there?

Yes it is really silly, considering the massive player base Steam has. That and with with the ever present Steam sales and the resulting impulse buys that inevitably accompany them (I just bought the Deus Ex DLC that way) why wouldn't they want their DLC on the front of the store page?

REcaptcha: know your rights (I know them, thats why I DON'T have Origin installed on my PC thank you very much.)

 

[Rawne1980]

I won't rule out Bioware games for being Bioware games, but they are no longer pre-orders for me. I am no longer a loyal customer as much I am a prospective buyer.

Agree with this comment here.

I'll wait a few months before buying any more BioWare games just to really make sure they are worth the money.

At one point there was no doubts at all now i'm slightly worried about DA3.

 

[JediMB]

I do love BioWare's games, and believe that they can still make good character-driven RPGs.

However, I know there are other "forces" involved, and the Mass Effect 3 ending has shaken my trust in them. While the rest of the game is a testament to that they're still fantastic developers, I need to be able to trust that know what they did wrong with ME3. The best way for them to prove that is by fixing said ending.

 

[Crazy Elf]

You do realise that the ending of Mass Effect 3 is perfectly in line with the theme of the games up to this point? And, you also do realise that not everything has to end well to be considered complete? Hamlet doesn't end well, but it's still considered rather good. King Lear doesn't end well, either. A Tale of Two Cities ends in a very similar way to Mass Effect 3 in many ways.

Perhaps it's time people got used to an ending in which people make actual sacrifices rather than getting their way all the time. Like the Rolling Stones say, "You can't always get what you want."

There you have it. Bioware's got the moves like Jagger.

 

[Candidus]

Bioware then didn't stomp this in the ground and just say "we are artists, these are our works. We can't please everybody, no matter what we do." They just placated them, mindlessly, like children.

Through miscommunication, childishness, patronization, and EA's reputation, the relationship between Bioware and its fans has become adversarial and completely unhealthy. Unhealthy for the industry, for the games, the medium and for everybody involved.

For the last time OP, this isn't about artistic direction, this is about the STANDARD of the work that they did. If you believe the ending is a functional piece of professionally written literature, then you need to look again because this issue isn't subjective.

They could have taken an artistic direction I hated and I'd still have supported them. What I can't support is a work riddled with plot holes that is inconsistent with the lore, which contradicts (as a matter of FACT and not opinion) all of their pre-release advertising, which for many formed part of the basis for purchase- including me.

If you believe Weekes, this happened because Hudson and another lead writer circumvented peer review and cowboy'd the ending themselves. Whatever the cause, I believe a redo is the only solution.

I don't want to play fanfiction. I want an ending that makes sense and resembles the promises. Not unreasonable. Certainly not childish.

Here's an adult notion for you. Consider yourself obligated to thoroughly study a subject- especially a debate- before you talk about it. At the very least, you should do that before you take a side.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

Edit: I'd love to see them "it's art!" the OP of that thread away. "We kept all of those promises if you look at the ending through a prism on the event horizon of a crack hole! Honest."

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I was prepared for the ending by the time I finished it. I thought it was ok, but I did wish they took a more ME2 ending route. Still, it didn't seem nearly as bad as I expected.

I really hated DA2 though. The story line was ok, but the game itself felt cheap. Every dungeon was the same and you never moved from that city. Thats what angered me.

I am now playing Old Republic and loving it. I guess I'll just let that hold me till Bioware figures out what they want to do. I do find it funny that everyone is ragging on EA as this evil God company. They are actually losing millions a year right now. If you really want to get into it Activision/Blizzard is the big dog in town.

Also while I'm not positive why Bioware was bought by EA I do know that some of the Bioware founders did leave around the same time. That could very well be the reason the games are starting to look like its built from table scraps.

Just feel there should be more to it than EA. Don't get me wrong I have my own company I will never forgive (SOE) so I understand, but lets take a step back and use research to figure out whats up with Bioware.

 

[JediMB]

You do realise that the ending of Mass Effect 3 is perfectly in line with the theme of the games up to this point?

Self-determination, strength through diversity, and letting go of prejudices.

Each alternative in Mass Effect 3's ending forces you to reject at least one of those, based on a false premise stated by a character whose very existence contradicts all we previously knew about the Reapers.

 

[spartandude]

before i was a mass effet fanboy, i mean i would defend it to the death. mass effect was my third favourite game, with ME2 being somewhere in my top 20 (not as good but still amazing), but with ME3 i was a bit cautious thinking it wouldnt be as good
then i played it and it was AMAZING i absolutely loved it, even forgived the final fantasy assassin. i loved it completely untill the end

the end has actually destroyed it for me, i dont even want to play through the first 2 games at all anymore because it feels like everything in there was completely irrelevent

Spoiler: ME3 ending

shepard finds a secret room in the citadel and can therefore decide the fate of the galaxy.
congratulations you are the best hide and seek player in the universe! and your reward is chosing the fate of all life!

 

[GoaThief]

2007

Bioware introduced it's magnum opus to the world: Mass Effect. An epic, brilliantly-written story-driven space opera, Mass Effect captivated gamers and introduced millions to a burgeoning franchise and one of the most-loved developers in the industry. Bioware was riding high after this success.

Actually, Dragon Age: Origins was the bigger game that sold more copies than the original Mass Effect. DA:O was their big success, especially as sales increased (virtually unprecedented) as time went on thanks due to excellent word of mouth and positive reviews. Mass Effect was great and did well, but was limited to one format and didn't make as big waves. I agree Dragon Age 2 was the first turning point for the worst but as Mass Effect 2 was huge this caused something of a divide between fans.

I except there's quite a few smug DA:O fans out there going, "I told you so!" regarding ME3.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

It's not really Biowares fault. If you want to blame anyone then blame EA.

 

[JediMB]

Looks like the ending is still going to be bullshit. They'll just fill it out with "new" content, which probably means cut content.

And that's the sound of my last thread of hope for BioWare snapping. I can't trust them to craft a satisfying story anymore.

 

[Krantos]

They never recovered from forcing unnecessary hardware updates to play nvn2, maybe that's why they moved to the casual market.

Um, you do know that Neverwinter Nights 2 was made by Obsidian, not BioWare, right?

Do you mean the first Neverwinter?

 

[Paladin2905]

Once again proving that EA is still the evil empire. They were ok for about 2 years at the start of this gen where everyone hated them but now they are worse.

RIP Bullfrog, Looking Glass Studios, Pandemic etc etc The list goes on.

Fuck you EA.

Go ahead and add Westwood & Will Wright to the list.
"Challege Everything" is misleading. "Swallow everything" seems more appropriate.

When you purchase EA, you are NOT supporting the developer. Every single talented, promising developer EA has bought out gets wrung out, displaced or eventually closed down entirely. And it is ALWAYS due to EA's meddling and mandates.
EA has been on the receiving end of class action lawsuits from their own employees for labor violations.

I want to make this perfectly clear: That is the vicious cycle of developer consumption you support when you buy an EA game. I want everyone who reads this to keep that in mind.

Do with that information what you will. I can't make you to care, but I can say you have been warned.

Some of us don't hate EA just because "It's cool or fun to hate". We hate EA because they are a plague upon gaming, and have been for over a decade now.

I have no idea how I forgot about those 2, Westwood and (old) Maxis were a huge part of my childhood. I bought The Sims 3 last summer, I couldn't believe how much EA had ruined it, it truly shocked me.

I agree with all the points you have made, it's the reason I'm on a genuine EA boycott at the moment. It's going to take all my energy to avoid buying Sim City 5 though, in some ways I hope it's shit.

Let's not forget Origin (by which i mean the old Ultima / Wing Commander /etc. company. Not the Online service they slapped its name on).

Back when Bioware announced their buyout by EA we all knew what would happen- every one of those companies was killed by their acquisition. We tried a private capitalization drive to get them funding back then and keep them afloat, but I got the feeling the takeover was just too strong an incentive for the brass at Bioware. Mass Effect was finished at the time they were bought so it wasn't affected as much (until the PC DRM scandal- which EA had them add in the few months between the PC and XBOX releases).

You know, I used to respect EA. Back when their logo was a square, circle and triangle that changed colors slightly as games loaded. You know. Back in 1982 or so...

 

[Whitbane]

Mass Effect 2 was just so perfect is so many ways that it allowed me to ignore its flaws. I'm glad that I waited a week to get Mass Effect 3 because thanks to the internet, I found out the ending was total shit. I did prepare myself for it though, and when I did finish the game, it wasn't as bad as I initially thought. The lack of closure and the "press button, receive ending" conclusion is annoying. The plot holes in their own lore is also a bit much to simply ignore. I still love the game, but its flaws show at points.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I really liked the vast majority of Mass Effect 3. As with most folks, the ending killed it for me, but up until that point it was "mostly" bliss.

Of course, a few things bothered me and after experiencing the ending all the faults are starting to come to the forefront.

Auto-dialogue, lack of actual conversation with squad mates (I really disliked what they did with Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2 and they just copy pasted that approach for EVERYONE in 3), and overall diminished player agency are, frankly, irritating but bearable.

The developer as a whole seems to be dropping the ball in the endings department. DA2's ending was abysmal too. I've pre-ordered everything (except MDK) from Bioware since KotOR and played their games since BG. The Old Republic is a surprisingly well done MMO and I'm currently playing a trial, just to check out the stories for each class. I may even sub.

That said, they've lost me as a "pre-order level" fan. I'll probably still pick up their games, but it'll be after a great deal of scrutiny. I'm in the unfortunate position of caring about the DA story line, so DA3 may sway me back in their favor, but I'm not exactly thrilled by the prospect.

Consumers are a fickle bunch.

 

[boag]

I liked ME3 up until the ending.

What the ending did was prevent me from replaying the games from the beginning.

The whole way the entire fiasco has been handled by Bioware has completely soured me to the company.

 

[paislyabmj]

You forgot dragon age origins im pretty sure that happened somewhere in there.

OT:I personally thought that the first time bioware and there fans had a big hissy fit was dragon age 2 was released. having never play the game I can not pass comment on its quality or lack of it but the fan reaction seemed much more pissed of than anything else I have ever seen happen to bioware.

Edit:completely of topic but from what i have read i heard that the ending reduces replay value to people interested in the story ,so if I get into the mass effect franchise should i bother whith ME3 or just save my money.

 

[Joseph Harrison]

I still like 'em
Sure, Mass Effect 3's ending sucked, and Dragon Age 2 wasn't as good as the first, but I'd rather play a Bioware game over many other games being release nowadays.

I agree with this guy. Dragon Age 2 wasn't great and Mass Effect 3's ending was pretty bad but all around I still love Bioware and I'd say that the reason the whole Bioware vs. Fans thing has erupted is because Bioware has such a huge fanbase that as it gets bigger the minority of people who are the hatedom grow as well and they get louder,

 

[Folji]

Snip

This is sort of where I am right now. Sure, Bioware has screwed up in a few cases, but ultimately they're still one of the best producers of quality games out there. I love Bioware games on a level only really shared by Bethesda Studios...and Bungie.

Odd...come to think of it...I may just like them for the first letters in their names...

I believe I have some soul searching to do...

Spoiler

Okay, that was too easy. But you got a point. There's really been a lot of great developers over the years starting on the letter B. Like BioWare, and Bungie, and Bethesda, and Blizzard, and Bullfrog, and Blue Byte, and... Binary Games? Brownie Brown? Something something? Lots of them, anyway.

Snip

Yes it is really silly, considering the massive player base Steam has. That and with with the ever present Steam sales and the resulting impulse buys that inevitably accompany them (I just bought the Deus Ex DLC that way) why wouldn't they want their DLC on the front of the store page?

REcaptcha: know your rights (I know them, thats why I DON'T have Origin installed on my PC thank you very much.)

Oh hey, was contemplating making the same purchase. Didn't do it in the end, but it's still something when a service can get someone who never ever buys DLC to consider doing it. A game published by EA can be expected to at least do well enough on the market, they're good enough at marketing for that, but I'm still curious how many sales on average they've lost by passing up on Steam. Even failing MMOs have seen welcome boosts in player count and activity after going Steam.

 

[trooper6]

Oh hey, was contemplating making the same purchase. Didn't do it in the end, but it's still something when a service can get someone who never ever buys DLC to consider doing it. A game published by EA can be expected to at least do well enough on the market, they're good enough at marketing for that, but I'm still curious how many sales on average they've lost by passing up on Steam. Even failing MMOs have seen welcome boosts in player count and activity after going Steam.

I am very skeptical of Steam ever since I heard that you don't actually own the games you buy from them and if they decide to ban your account you can no longer access the games you bought. I don't like that at all.