Bisexuals: The Outcasts of Outcasts.

[OtherSideofSky]

Discussing experiences of male on female rape is often utterly inappropriate with men present, and sometimes straight-dating bisexuals.

Why would anyone hold a meeting only to discuss male on female rape unless they were dealing with a specific individual experience, in which case the presence of men should be no problem? I've yet to see any study suggesting that the effects of male on female rape differ significantly from any other kind of rape, and the latest survey statistics show parity or near parity for rape across genders (see the analysis of the actual statistics here: http://www.genderratic.com/?p=836. I encourage you to check the numbers yourself.). That being the case, isn't rape a universal issue which needs to be discussed by the entire community?

The problem of discrimination against bisexuals in LGBT communities is neither new nor unique. I find it somewhat reminiscent of "The Myth of the Black Community". In reality, the LGBT movement primarily represents the needs and desires of white middle or upper class gay men, often to the exclusion of other voices and viewpoints within that community. Victims of oppression are sometimes under the impression that they are somehow incapable of oppressing or discriminating against others and see their experiences as a justification for the "rightness" of the way they exclude or discriminate against minorities in their own communities. If you want an example of similar behavior, search this site for threads about bullying.

Also, most gay people are as far from getting the idea of sexuality as a spectrum rather than a binary state as most straight people are. Hell, you even get a lot of bi people who think that everyone is secretly bi and just repressing it. It's the same thing.

i think its probably something like agnostics, both belivers and atheists hate agnostics as there seen as "fence sitters" or they "have a foot in each camp" which isnt really seen as a good thing in these kinds of "us vs them" debates

This attitude exists because idiots don't know what "agnostic" means and started using it as a middle ground between theism and atheism when it's actually one end of an entirely different scale. For example, I am an agnostic theist. I believe that there is a god, but I do not believe that it is possible to possess definite knowledge of god(s). The position can be further expanded to knowledge in general, which is where you get people who don't believe it is possible to know anything with certainty.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

Nobody should be against them especially not the people who are also looked down upon because of their sexuality. I also however don't see much reason for letting everybody know. I mean sure, be Bi and tell if people ask but you don't see anyone going out and yelling "I'm straight!". If you are being looked down upon for it then you told people who would look down upon you. I'm going to assume an asshat like this isn't your friend. How on earth did you end up telling someone like that?

 

[Phisi]

I would think it is because what binds the gay community is their shared sexuality, this also explains why many are so open about it. A bisexual person is in the gay camp but the gays aren't in the bi camp. It's something like the guy who's friends with the nerds but also goes off and joins the cool kids, the nerds in this case see them as someone who while identifies with them, they can't identify with and don't have to endure what they go through. Oh and all the girls that say they are bi in order to seem sexy.

 

[Rottweiler]

I can only really speak from my experience and from what I am told by friends who are gay or lesbians, but:

Bisexuals are seen as 'wishy-washy' or 'they want to have their cake and eat it too', or 'they just want an excuse for why people don't like them instead of blaming themselves'.

Understand, I'm not defending this- but this is generally the only reasons I've heard expressed for disliking Bisexuals as a group.

To be blunt, the most negative feelings I've heard expressed are due to the fact that for a time- and now, to an extent- it was 'fashionable' to be something other than heterosexual. Unfortunately, that meant a number of shallow, generally useless people started loudly claiming to be Gay or Bisexual- not due to sincere feeling, but to excuse their feelings of alienation and feeling like an outcast. After all, it's not *them*, it's because they're .

This of course backfired because the *actual* gays and bisexuals felt they were making them look bad (with justification) and unfortunately it became a general label and stereotype.

 

[Erja_Perttu]

Asexual people have it just as bad, what with all the "they don't actually exist", and "they just say that because they can't get any" stuff that gets thrown around.

I hadn't actually considered Asexual people. That is a wonderful point and a great note of a much overlooked minority. I'm sure there are some out there who actively identify as asexual, and could, in fact, get some.

I'll put my hand up and say I'm one of those people who could get some if I wanted it. Being asexual isn't repulsive and it doesn't mean that the person is automatically uptight, or ugly, or a hipster.

Spoiler: Some little background on my own experiences with asexuality.

I've told very few people about my orientation because no one can deal with it, even my liberal parents. It makes them uncomfortable and awkward if I ever bring it up. I made a joke once about how I didn't want to sleep with Hugh Jackman and the look that they gave me made me feel like I'd told a Holocaust joke.

The only friends of mine I told were an arts student, a bisexual and a biker friend of mine, the kind of people used to stereotypes and prejudice or just being demeaned, but I didn't get any support from them. It was like I'd just told them I wasn't human.

They told me I'll live my life alone. I've been told I'll never be able to have a meaningful relationship with people because I'm not right. I've been told not to go looking for relationships because it's not fair on the other person, because of the way I am. I've been told I should cure myself by 'sleeping with people until my sex drive comes back'.

What I've found is that whilst being asexual is very liberating because I'm not alone, there are other people like me that I can talk to on the internet, my real life is full of people who either do, or would look at me like I'm a robot if I said anything.

I couldn't imagine going to a rally about different sexualities. If bisexuals get left out for being different to homosexuals, where the hell would that leave someone like me?

 

[Aprilgold]

When you see a Biesexual dating one gender and not the other for some time, it becomes hard to think that they are Biesexual down there. This is why some Biesexuals don't assign as such, but instead sign by which gender they prefer. Thats just what I think it is. Its like someone that says their a crack addict yet they always are in perfect condition, crack free.

I suppose that Asexuals don't really have a reason for being hated on, neither do biesexuals, but at least I can try and explain that hatred. I'll give it a shot anyway.

I'm assuming that its because Asexuals don't get much sexual arrousal, and as such, people think that they just don't get out there enough to truly know their sexual identity.

I really don't think its a big issue, while still a issue. There are work arounds.

I think its because people think of sexuality as a pure dichotomy like a light switch or binary something can be one or the other, which is rather silly because nothing (Besides artificial constructs) tends to work that way, most things just seem polar because the majorities exist at the poles.

Or this, I could always be wrong. This could always be the answer to this question.

 

[Lord Kloo]

Some people have hetrophobia, some have homophobia.. bisexuals although benefiting from being able to be sexuality attracted to both sexes unfortunatly will fit into both and quite a few feel forced into one group or another (as in to be stuck to guys or gals)..

It doesn't help that pretty much everyone I know (and I know mostly educated people) doesn't understand much about sexuality other than what their own preference is. They don't recognize that sexuality is a spectrum and that people can be a bisexual of varying ratios and as such bi people are perhaps frowned upon for 'sitting on the fence' being a semi-closeted homosexual or just plain attention seekers..

People dislike things they can't understand, example, my male (I'm male as well) friends really can't understand how a guy could like a guy, luckily they see my choice as my right and don't burden me for it, however I can understand that lesser people may take a different approach..

TLDR: people don't like things they don't understand, and as some from both hetro and homosexual groups don't understand the other bisexuals get caught in the crossfire as a two faced enemy of all..


Just making sure, my post does seem a bit derogatory to bisexuals, trust me I have nothing but the highest regard for those who can come out as a bisexual.

EDIT: Remembering something someone said once, "being bisexual is greedy".. Liking two kinds of ice-cream doesn't make you greedy, taking two does.. although I'm happy for people to have three/four/nth way relationships..

 

[Eventidal]

Uh, I don't know. I'm bisexual and I've never felt hated by anyone for it.

If I ever do feel like someone is hating on me for it, I'll call them right the hell out on it. I won't take bullshit from anyone about my sexual preferences. ESPECIALLY not someone in a group purported to be all about sexuality/gender equality. That's just pathetic. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you expect any kind of respect from me (which in general I'm entirely willing to give) you'd better be prepared to reciprocate on it.
I like penis and I'm married to a woman. Here's where I'd put all my fucks, if I actually gave any: ( )

 

[MetalMagpie]

I guess the point is that people who are bisexual have slightly less chance of being forced to make this public.

I'm bi, but am currently happily living with a partner of the opposite sex. The result of which is that I have no need to tell people about my sexuality unless I want to. As far as my family, co-workers and most of my friends are concerned, I'm completely straight.

I can see the possible friction, which is why I don't try to identify myself with the LGBT scene.

 

[Wargamer]

I identify as bisexual, though I've had more male partners than female.

I do not, however, have any sympathy for the 'woo! I'm so bi it's awesome!' crowd. I have had this conversation before:

[to a girl] "So, you're bi?"
"Yeah."
"Ever slept with a girl?"
"No."
"Kissed a girl?"
"No..."
"Wanted to?"
"I've not met the right person..."
"Looked at girl porn?"
"No!"
"So you haven't done anything REMOTELY sexual with a girl, all your partners have been male, yet you're Bi?"

That gets tiring. If people are 'bi curious', and say as much, I'm fine with that, but when blatantly straight people pretend to be bi, that kind of rubs me the wrong way.

 

[michiehoward]

When I was just entering puberty, I noticed (I could have had dreams like this before, but couldn't remember) that the most of the sexual nature, were with women, quite confusing for the budding sexual creature I was becoming. Anyway I turn 13 and puberty hits you, my dreams became more 50/50. From 13 to when I lost my virginity, I thought I was seriously conflicted.

Then I realized it wasn't in my dreams that really counted, it was, who was I physically and sexually attracted to in the light of day. So there ended my "bi-curious/bi/I am gay" identity crisis.

I guess the answers those jerks want are
Are you sexually and physically attracted to both sexes honestly
Could you find companionship with both males and females
They just go about it the asshole way

 

[Limie]

I've been told not to go looking for relationships because it's not fair on the other person, because of the way I am.

This is something that plays on my mind a lot. Being one of those asexuals that can "get some".
I have told three people in my life about my asexuality and none of those people actually understand what sexuality is. They seem to think that I'm living in denial. I don't talk to those people very much any more. I don't know any people who are asexual or who avow to being as such and so thank you for sharing your experiences.
On topic. Another possible reason for the "unwanted" feeling that pervades LGBT gatherings may be that Homosexual people may go there to talk about their experiences with other homosexuals. This could be the only time they have to talk about these experiences in an open and unjudgemental environment and so bi-sexuals get neglected.
This is just a suggestion of a possbile contributintg factor to the unwanted feeling. I realise that there are people that are pillocks that have predjudices against bi-sexuals, I also do not advocate this behaviour.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Really? Bisexuals seem to have it easy over here in Britain.

Homosexuality is becoming more accepted, but bisexuality is almost seen as an extremely common thing to be. I actually think bisexuality is an awesome sexuality to be. Finding both male and females attractive must be quite an experience.

Sure there aren't many rallies, or movements in there name. But why should there be? They can switch between straight and gay instantaneously if pushed. They don't have to put up with the same harsh criticisms homosexuals get, despite potentially laying with the same sex, but they also blend in with straight communities, because they lay with the opposite sex.

All is well!

 

[Antitonic]

Spoiler: Snip

Asexual people have it just as bad, what with all the "they don't actually exist", and "they just say that because they can't get any" stuff that gets thrown around.

I hadn't actually considered Asexual people. That is a wonderful point and a great note of a much overlooked minority. I'm sure there are some out there who actively identify as asexual, and could, in fact, get some.

I'll put my hand up and say I'm one of those people who could get some if I wanted it. Being asexual isn't repulsive and it doesn't mean that the person is automatically uptight, or ugly, or a hipster.

Spoiler: Some little background on my own experiences with asexuality.

I've told very few people about my orientation because no one can deal with it, even my liberal parents. It makes them uncomfortable and awkward if I ever bring it up. I made a joke once about how I didn't want to sleep with Hugh Jackman and the look that they gave me made me feel like I'd told a Holocaust joke.

The only friends of mine I told were an arts student, a bisexual and a biker friend of mine, the kind of people used to stereotypes and prejudice or just being demeaned, but I didn't get any support from them. It was like I'd just told them I wasn't human.

They told me I'll live my life alone. I've been told I'll never be able to have a meaningful relationship with people because I'm not right. I've been told not to go looking for relationships because it's not fair on the other person, because of the way I am. I've been told I should cure myself by 'sleeping with people until my sex drive comes back'.

What I've found is that whilst being asexual is very liberating because I'm not alone, there are other people like me that I can talk to on the internet, my real life is full of people who either do, or would look at me like I'm a robot if I said anything.

I couldn't imagine going to a rally about different sexualities. If bisexuals get left out for being different to homosexuals, where the hell would that leave someone like me?

Oh, this sounds familiar. Every other day I get my mother insisting it's "just a phase" and that as soon as I meet "the right person", I'll "come to my senses".

And, being alone doesn't mean you're lonely. It just means less money spent on dates.

 

[Galletea]

I think it's an issue that has long been ignored, partly because bisexuality, and also asexuality seems to form a grey area between one or the other and as people have mentioned, sexuality is one of those things that people seem to prefer as black and white, one thing or another, and that means they can't fully identify with them.

A lot of bisexuality is easily dismissed as teens experimenting, finding out what they want rather than actually being bisexual, girls are especially fond of doing this, it gets the attention they want. This does unfortunately lead to bisexuality as a whole being somewhat ignored, and to add to this I think that homosexual groups sometimes feel that they have it easy, since it is easier to keep quiet about generally, as bisexuals can to a degree identify with both 'sides'. I know this isn't fair, but it does seem to be what happens.

 

[Something Amyss]

I could understand if it was just a few stupid fucks that stereotyped and treated bisexuals poorly, but it is a pretty prevalent issue. When it is not explicitly stated that straight-dating bisexuals aren't welcome, it is implied heavily. I find that to be among the worst, most hypocritical things I've ever seen.

Welcome to the human race, my friend. I'd like to say it gets better, but really, it doesn't.

Hell, it's not just bisexuals. A lot of GBLT groups tend to disparage the transgender community. This is why there's the phrase "The 'T' is not silent." I've heard gays on this site use the "it's all in your head" line on transfolk. Hey, nothing like using the same lines used against you on others!

And that slight deviation of topic is kind of my point, on-topic as well. People have a tendency to pass on misery. You see a lot of bigotry and hate from people who really should have learned from experience that what they're doing is wrong (and often, hypocritical). It's hard to break that cycle.

Not impossible, mind, just hard.

 

[geK0]

i think its probably something like agnostics, both belivers and atheists hate agnostics as there seen as "fence sitters" or they "have a foot in each camp" which isnt really seen as a good thing in these kinds of "us vs them" debates

LOL in a lot of these debates I get people telling me that I'm actually religious or that I'm actually an atheist.... kind of annoying really : \

OT:


Never witnessed this myself; I guess I can sort of see where they're coming from, the Bis probably seem like posers to them : \ Not to say that it's right to dismiss them, I can just understand the thought process behind it.

Seems like half the problem to me is that people (not just gays) love to play the victim card, and aren't willing to acknowledge people who are 'less of a victim' than they are."We had to fight so hard for our freedom and you never needed to fight" *rabble rabble*

 

[ShadowKatt]

I'd even venture to say that Trans people are also in the same boat as Bi-sexuals. I know quite a bit of gay and lesbian people (living next to SF makes that much easier) that for god knows what reason don't like bisexual people or trans people. Then my trans friends feel completely left out, as do my bisexual friends.

It's something that I don't quite get, but I suppose it's how some groups don't like all components of said group.

Regardless of reason, I think it's stupid to hate someone who is bisexual based on that alone. But then again, this is my philosophy for hating anyone...

You don't need to venture, I know that trans people are at least as bad off if not moreso. I've been on the recieving end of that several times and seen it happen to others. Introduce a MtF trans person to a lesbian and watch the vitriol towards the "imposter", the "fake woman" or worse yet the "hornball man liar just trying to get some with a lesbian". It's no better the other way around, introducing a FtM trans person to a gay and having them utterly reduced to nothing for not being born with a y chromosome.

 

[Doclector]

I could understand that some people do pretend to be bisexual, but I don't believe they do it for the reasons people think of.

LGBT groups have a kind of "us freaks have to stick together" comradeship. You'd have to have geniunely been alone for a good few years to understand it, but I often toyed with the idea of turning up to my colleges group claiming to be Bi or just curious, just to get in on it. You'd be surprised how much you might lie just to fit in with something.

Of course, there are geniune bisexuals. I mean, it makes logical sense. Why limit your chances of meeting the mythical "one" to a single sex? So, I guess I understand both sides of the debate. It's times like this I wish it would be possible to somehow set up "outcast" groups for people who didn't fit in anywhere, gay, straight, bi, ugly people, nerds, mentally disturbed, people who don't have a space in society, without just attracting a bunch of hipsters. It would help so much for people to have somewhere they could find out who exactly they are without fear of persecution or exile once they find out.

 

[iLazy]

I've never really had any back-lash about my sexuality (bisexual) because I don't care and people in my town don't seem to care either, but I know of the back-lash. It's not fair. I get it, there are some people who say their bi to get attention or to seem hotter, and that casts a stereotype on bisexuality.

I guess since we, as a society, are starting to accept gays we have to find new people to hate. And guess who the torch gets passed too. Bisexuals and asexuals. Whatever, I'll carry the damn boulder for a bit.

But being a bi, I can honestly say this. I'm not doing it for attention. In fact, for years I hid the fact that I occasionally looked at other girls in a way that was not "God I hate that *****!" or "Holy shit that's a nice top!". It honestly confused me. I knew that I wasn't a lesbian, because I still had a strong attraction to guys, but at that point I never even heard of bisexual! I thought I was a freak.

But then I heard the term bisexual, and it was kind of cleared up but I still was scared. I had that thought in my head that you were either homosexual or heterosexual, there was no in between. It wasn't until high school when I kind of dated (uggh, high school romances) this girl that I was sure of who I was. I was bi. I'm attracted to both males and females. If people want to hate me because I'm bi, then go ahead. I can take it. I know who I am, and I'm happy.

/end chapter of my life.