When your dealing with established characters, you should *try* and find actors who look the part. There is no reason to cast a black guy as Heimdall other than political correctness.
I don't think racism has ever been an issue here, I think it's comic book purists, and people who oppose political corectness on principle. There is a differance between being a racist, and opposing a desician BECAUSE it's done to be politically correct.
The reason for casting a black guy as Heimdall seems to be a transparent marketing idea, in hopes that it will get more black people interested in comic books, combined with a politically correct statement in "hey, black guys can be super heroes too".
My attitude has long been that if you want to see more black super heroes, then we need people to create them, as most artists tend to project themselves into their work to some extent, you tend to see people creating characters of their own ethnicity, though it is not universal. As a whole blacks have little or no prescence in comic books, as writers, artists, or creators. I don't think I've ever met a black person that has shown much interest in trying to go into this field.
Comics being a highly competitive industry means that for a group to have a prescence, you need to have a LOT of them involved, after all there are going to be legions of failures for every success, and everyone, even the failures, have to be really into it to create the right climate.
You also can't just decide to put someone into the comics field and let him get his stuff published BECAUSE of their ethnicity, that's politically correct garbage, and usually winds up with inferior products being promoted because of the skin color of the people doing it, rather than any real quality. Rather you need to have enough people involved where some wind up getting to the finish line due to abillity rather than being handed it as a conscious effort to balance things out.
I'd point a finger at how decades ago Asians had very little prescence in comic books at all. However as time went on, and the interest involved, you saw the development of Manga and that whole take on comic and sequential art. It became good enough to come into the US, and the people involved in that industry started to get involved in western comics, just as people from western comics got involve in Manga. You saw the two styles gradually influance each other, and a lot more asian characters and creators involved in the market. This is a simplistic run down on the relationship, but the point is that it happened. There really isn't any racism involved, at least on the western side, it's all about prescence.
Rather than crap like we're seeing with "Heimdall" and "The Kingpin" and so on, what we actually need to see is more blakcs embracing the oppertunities that they are given. As Bill Cosby has pointed out, a lot of the problem is simply that Blacks have become culturally opposed to education and fitting into mainstream society. People are lining up to give them things and to even the playing field, but the textbooks, computers, and other things sent into diadvantaged ethnic areas wind up getting stolen or destroyed. Culturally it's all about "git rich or die trying", like it or not the majority of blacks would rather roll the dice on that billion to one chance of getting into the NBA or other pro sports, or sell drugs, and try and get to the absolute upper rungs of society, than work hard academically and wind up in the same ruts as everyone else. Bill Cosby has a PHD in Children's education and is far better at articulating the issue than I am.
At any rate, when you see more black kids deciding to focus on things like visual arts, writing, and the like, you'll see enough of them entering the market where some are going to succeed through competition to become forces within the comics industry given time. Then you'll start seeing a lot more black comic characters and super heroes, as opposed to the current situation where the characters are as rare as those creators, and largely come about because racism is actually pretty much dead, and guys like Todd Macfarlane *DO* decide once in a while to make a black character, and see it succeed (which is a big thing, it's about audience reception, comic characters frequently sink into obscurity when they fail to appeal to enough people).
That's my thoughts on the subject.
What we're dealing with is a social issue as much as a racial issue, or comic book fans argueing for a proper presentation of their favorite characters.
I'll also say that I think one of the disadvantages of free speech is things like political correctness, which can lead to people trying to spin this into something it's not.
-
Now, I consider the issue of other properties to be something a little differant. I can see more reason for people to be disturbed over things like the casting of "Avatar: The Last Air Bender" or "Prince Of Persia", and why people will point towards white washing.
HOWEVER, while I understand the arguement, I think this is again another situation of out of control political correctness, due to the simple question of who you were going to cast in these roles.
Like it or not the film industry is largely dominated by white europeans and americans. While other nations ARE developing in the film industry and might overtake the current dominant forces at some point, it hasn't happened yet. People will frequently sit down and laugh at a lot of the stuff produced in Bollywood or in China, Korea, or Japan, because while they are trying, they just aren't producing many decent actors, and don't have the infrastructure of film making experience to turn out quality products very often (which makes the situations where it does happen stand out).
Looking as "Prince Of Persia" for example, I can't think of a single Arabic actor that could have pulled off that role. It was easier to get Jake to look sort of Arabic, than to take the risk in a production like that of trying to teach someone of proper ethnicity enough. With the huge budgets involved (comparitively speaking) I can see why they make the desician they did.
It's sort of like the old arguements about how in various Westerns, even ones that were politically correct towards Indians, they didn't actually HAVE many Indians playing the Indian roles, especially the speaking ones. Of course how many Native American actors were there at that time? Not bloody many. As time went on, we started to see more of them, and as a result you saw more accurate ethnic casting.
Do a search for say "Turkish Star Wars" or for some of the Arabic childre's programming put up on The Internet. Or even look at actors of Arabic ancestery in the US and find one that is high profile enough to carry that role promotionally, and looked the part. You might be able to do it, but it's not going to be easy, and I'm sure a lot of arguements could be made against any selection that would hardly be racist. Viewed that way you can probably see how the thought processes in the casting actually worked.
With "Avatar", a better case can be made when it comes to some of the characters. However, at the same time, I also can't think of many colored kids who could have pulled off the roles people are talking about. What you'd basically be going for would be kids around the Arabian/Indian ethnicity, or perhaps eskimos (if you wanted to get technical). Again, I can't think of many people that could have been cast, you might find someone in Bollywood that could have pulled it off, but there would be issues of quality.
As far as experienced Asian actors go, there are more of those, but at the same time I can't think of many who fit the needed roles, even as supporting actors. One of the issues with bringing people in from Hong Kong or Japanese cinema is not just language barrier issues, but the simple fact that while a lot of these guys do great choreography, a lot of them simply can't act to save their lives.
I'm sure times will change, but remember you can't put big stars in every role, and have to work with what's availible right then and there (ie actors that might have worked which were on another project can't be used). I think race is a non-factor to be honest, and that just like Native Americans in western movies, as time changes and we start to see more performers of quality appearing in other ethnicities, we'll see more accurate casting in cases where it's appropriate.
The differance between this and Heimdall is that it was a political statement, and I doubt they would have had any trouble finding someone who looked close to the part for what was arguably a bit role. Bit parts being a little differant than say casting Ang's friends in "Last Airbender" or The Prince from "Prince Of Persia" who are major characters with
tons of screen time, and whom are going to require tons of acting that will make or break
the picture.
I think a lot of people don't understand how minor things done for political correctness can actually be as maddening, or more so, than major acts. The comparitively trivial nature of certain desicians is what makes them so annoying.
As far as not seeing "Thor" goes, well one of the reasons why it's annoying is that like a lot of people I'm not going to turn down what seems to be an otherwise well made film because of that single desician as bad as it might be. It's impossible to say whether it will ruin the whole thing or not without havibng seen it, chances are it will just be annoying, and be sufficient to take a great movie and simply make it a good or average movie due to the "WTF" factor. It also means that right off the bat, we know there is going to be potential for a remake, since the casting choices, along with what we know about some of the story desicians, means it won't be the definitive version of "Thor".
People focus on Heimdall, but tend to overlook how going by the trailers we seem to be having Thor cast down to earth as a god, as opposed to Thor being a spirit inhabiting a host body. The classic joke about "why is Thor blonde, when the mythological version has red hair?" is answered by the fact that Thor is blonde because his host body(s) are Blonde which has come up in the comics. Thor was Doctor Donald Blake, and one of his big things was that he'd tap his cane on the ground (which was secretly the hammer) to Transform into "The Mighty Thor". While the transforming bit was downplayed as time went on, it was still key to understanding WHY Thor is what he is. It's also a crucial element of some stories, like where he runs into the "original" host body (a Red Haired Thor), or like how during "The Infinity Gauntlet" battle he's seperated from the hammer and turns back into a mere mortal who is dying in space, before managing to get his hands back on it, turn back into a god, and re-enter the battle.
Simply put this movie might be entertaining, but I'm not sure if it really captures the essence of the character, before you even get into things like Heimdall. Thor being part mortal (due to the way he inhabits bodies) is a key aspect of the character and how he thinks compared to other gods. Without that, he makes less sense.
Despite everything, I could be wrong about the way the character is going to be done in the movies, this is simply how things appear from the trailers. People focus on the fan-rage over the casting of Heimdall, but tend to overlook the OTHER problems people have with how this movie is being set up in the reveals we've seen so far.
I know many people will disagree with me on what I think, and they are of course entitled to their opinions. I'd also like to thank anyone who actually took the time to read this huge rant.
I don't think racism has ever been an issue here, I think it's comic book purists, and people who oppose political corectness on principle. There is a differance between being a racist, and opposing a desician BECAUSE it's done to be politically correct.
The reason for casting a black guy as Heimdall seems to be a transparent marketing idea, in hopes that it will get more black people interested in comic books, combined with a politically correct statement in "hey, black guys can be super heroes too".
My attitude has long been that if you want to see more black super heroes, then we need people to create them, as most artists tend to project themselves into their work to some extent, you tend to see people creating characters of their own ethnicity, though it is not universal. As a whole blacks have little or no prescence in comic books, as writers, artists, or creators. I don't think I've ever met a black person that has shown much interest in trying to go into this field.
Comics being a highly competitive industry means that for a group to have a prescence, you need to have a LOT of them involved, after all there are going to be legions of failures for every success, and everyone, even the failures, have to be really into it to create the right climate.
You also can't just decide to put someone into the comics field and let him get his stuff published BECAUSE of their ethnicity, that's politically correct garbage, and usually winds up with inferior products being promoted because of the skin color of the people doing it, rather than any real quality. Rather you need to have enough people involved where some wind up getting to the finish line due to abillity rather than being handed it as a conscious effort to balance things out.
I'd point a finger at how decades ago Asians had very little prescence in comic books at all. However as time went on, and the interest involved, you saw the development of Manga and that whole take on comic and sequential art. It became good enough to come into the US, and the people involved in that industry started to get involved in western comics, just as people from western comics got involve in Manga. You saw the two styles gradually influance each other, and a lot more asian characters and creators involved in the market. This is a simplistic run down on the relationship, but the point is that it happened. There really isn't any racism involved, at least on the western side, it's all about prescence.
Rather than crap like we're seeing with "Heimdall" and "The Kingpin" and so on, what we actually need to see is more blakcs embracing the oppertunities that they are given. As Bill Cosby has pointed out, a lot of the problem is simply that Blacks have become culturally opposed to education and fitting into mainstream society. People are lining up to give them things and to even the playing field, but the textbooks, computers, and other things sent into diadvantaged ethnic areas wind up getting stolen or destroyed. Culturally it's all about "git rich or die trying", like it or not the majority of blacks would rather roll the dice on that billion to one chance of getting into the NBA or other pro sports, or sell drugs, and try and get to the absolute upper rungs of society, than work hard academically and wind up in the same ruts as everyone else. Bill Cosby has a PHD in Children's education and is far better at articulating the issue than I am.
At any rate, when you see more black kids deciding to focus on things like visual arts, writing, and the like, you'll see enough of them entering the market where some are going to succeed through competition to become forces within the comics industry given time. Then you'll start seeing a lot more black comic characters and super heroes, as opposed to the current situation where the characters are as rare as those creators, and largely come about because racism is actually pretty much dead, and guys like Todd Macfarlane *DO* decide once in a while to make a black character, and see it succeed (which is a big thing, it's about audience reception, comic characters frequently sink into obscurity when they fail to appeal to enough people).
That's my thoughts on the subject.
What we're dealing with is a social issue as much as a racial issue, or comic book fans argueing for a proper presentation of their favorite characters.
I'll also say that I think one of the disadvantages of free speech is things like political correctness, which can lead to people trying to spin this into something it's not.
-
Now, I consider the issue of other properties to be something a little differant. I can see more reason for people to be disturbed over things like the casting of "Avatar: The Last Air Bender" or "Prince Of Persia", and why people will point towards white washing.
HOWEVER, while I understand the arguement, I think this is again another situation of out of control political correctness, due to the simple question of who you were going to cast in these roles.
Like it or not the film industry is largely dominated by white europeans and americans. While other nations ARE developing in the film industry and might overtake the current dominant forces at some point, it hasn't happened yet. People will frequently sit down and laugh at a lot of the stuff produced in Bollywood or in China, Korea, or Japan, because while they are trying, they just aren't producing many decent actors, and don't have the infrastructure of film making experience to turn out quality products very often (which makes the situations where it does happen stand out).
Looking as "Prince Of Persia" for example, I can't think of a single Arabic actor that could have pulled off that role. It was easier to get Jake to look sort of Arabic, than to take the risk in a production like that of trying to teach someone of proper ethnicity enough. With the huge budgets involved (comparitively speaking) I can see why they make the desician they did.
It's sort of like the old arguements about how in various Westerns, even ones that were politically correct towards Indians, they didn't actually HAVE many Indians playing the Indian roles, especially the speaking ones. Of course how many Native American actors were there at that time? Not bloody many. As time went on, we started to see more of them, and as a result you saw more accurate ethnic casting.
Do a search for say "Turkish Star Wars" or for some of the Arabic childre's programming put up on The Internet. Or even look at actors of Arabic ancestery in the US and find one that is high profile enough to carry that role promotionally, and looked the part. You might be able to do it, but it's not going to be easy, and I'm sure a lot of arguements could be made against any selection that would hardly be racist. Viewed that way you can probably see how the thought processes in the casting actually worked.
With "Avatar", a better case can be made when it comes to some of the characters. However, at the same time, I also can't think of many colored kids who could have pulled off the roles people are talking about. What you'd basically be going for would be kids around the Arabian/Indian ethnicity, or perhaps eskimos (if you wanted to get technical). Again, I can't think of many people that could have been cast, you might find someone in Bollywood that could have pulled it off, but there would be issues of quality.
As far as experienced Asian actors go, there are more of those, but at the same time I can't think of many who fit the needed roles, even as supporting actors. One of the issues with bringing people in from Hong Kong or Japanese cinema is not just language barrier issues, but the simple fact that while a lot of these guys do great choreography, a lot of them simply can't act to save their lives.
I'm sure times will change, but remember you can't put big stars in every role, and have to work with what's availible right then and there (ie actors that might have worked which were on another project can't be used). I think race is a non-factor to be honest, and that just like Native Americans in western movies, as time changes and we start to see more performers of quality appearing in other ethnicities, we'll see more accurate casting in cases where it's appropriate.
The differance between this and Heimdall is that it was a political statement, and I doubt they would have had any trouble finding someone who looked close to the part for what was arguably a bit role. Bit parts being a little differant than say casting Ang's friends in "Last Airbender" or The Prince from "Prince Of Persia" who are major characters with
tons of screen time, and whom are going to require tons of acting that will make or break
the picture.
I think a lot of people don't understand how minor things done for political correctness can actually be as maddening, or more so, than major acts. The comparitively trivial nature of certain desicians is what makes them so annoying.
As far as not seeing "Thor" goes, well one of the reasons why it's annoying is that like a lot of people I'm not going to turn down what seems to be an otherwise well made film because of that single desician as bad as it might be. It's impossible to say whether it will ruin the whole thing or not without havibng seen it, chances are it will just be annoying, and be sufficient to take a great movie and simply make it a good or average movie due to the "WTF" factor. It also means that right off the bat, we know there is going to be potential for a remake, since the casting choices, along with what we know about some of the story desicians, means it won't be the definitive version of "Thor".
People focus on Heimdall, but tend to overlook how going by the trailers we seem to be having Thor cast down to earth as a god, as opposed to Thor being a spirit inhabiting a host body. The classic joke about "why is Thor blonde, when the mythological version has red hair?" is answered by the fact that Thor is blonde because his host body(s) are Blonde which has come up in the comics. Thor was Doctor Donald Blake, and one of his big things was that he'd tap his cane on the ground (which was secretly the hammer) to Transform into "The Mighty Thor". While the transforming bit was downplayed as time went on, it was still key to understanding WHY Thor is what he is. It's also a crucial element of some stories, like where he runs into the "original" host body (a Red Haired Thor), or like how during "The Infinity Gauntlet" battle he's seperated from the hammer and turns back into a mere mortal who is dying in space, before managing to get his hands back on it, turn back into a god, and re-enter the battle.
Simply put this movie might be entertaining, but I'm not sure if it really captures the essence of the character, before you even get into things like Heimdall. Thor being part mortal (due to the way he inhabits bodies) is a key aspect of the character and how he thinks compared to other gods. Without that, he makes less sense.
Despite everything, I could be wrong about the way the character is going to be done in the movies, this is simply how things appear from the trailers. People focus on the fan-rage over the casting of Heimdall, but tend to overlook the OTHER problems people have with how this movie is being set up in the reveals we've seen so far.
I know many people will disagree with me on what I think, and they are of course entitled to their opinions. I'd also like to thank anyone who actually took the time to read this huge rant.
