Black Thor Actor Talks About Racist Comic Book Fans

[Technicka]

Lots of good points.

Since we aren't entirely sure how the casting process went...we're all pretty much making assumptions. I will, however, point out that Kenneth Branagh picks his actors based off talent rather than their appearance; a common practice with stage productions. He's done it before with hiring a black actor because he was impressed with him, and the rest of the cast was all shades of white. So, going by his past actions, I don't think it was a "liberal agenda" deal.

There's still this (beyond stupid) idea in the entertainment industry that too many of any ethnic group somehow makes the movie a genre that's typically associated with them. Too many Asians? People will think it's a martial arts flick. Too many blacks? Well, it's just got to be a Tyler Perry movie! Native Americans? Spiritual, or historical piece. Studios aren't comfortable with putting the kind of money Thor got behind anything too against the norm, and as such, we're left with the concept of the Token Roles in this types of films.

 

[Nurb]

When others complain, it's whitewashing.

When the white folks complain, it's racism.

Either way, the white folks are the ones catching shit.

If people would just end the double standatds and make up their minds about accepting other races in pre-established characters OR holding firm to the original character race I'd be less annoyed.

Its more about getting equity in the number of roles available to white vs. non-white actors. Has a lot more to do with Hollywood casting issues than adaptation of the source material.

Paying more attention to the race of the actor than how the actor fits the character or role is going to make for some shitty acting or movies.

Besides, I'm of the mindset that fixing the issue of race based hiring with more race based hiring is a negative thing. Either way, someone gets the job just for the level of skin pigmentation

 

[Technicka]

When others complain, it's whitewashing.

When the white folks complain, it's racism.

Either way, the white folks are the ones catching shit.

If people would just end the double standatds and make up their minds about accepting other races in pre-established characters OR holding firm to the original character race I'd be less annoyed.

Its more about getting equity in the number of roles available to white vs. non-white actors. Has a lot more to do with Hollywood casting issues than adaptation of the source material.

Paying more attention to the race of the actor than how the actor fits the character or role is going to make for some shitty acting or movies.

Besides, I'm of the mindset that fixing the issue of race based hiring with more race based hiring is a negative thing. Either way, someone gets the job just for the level of skin pigmentation

Hiring based on talent is a great idea. Problem is, that rarely happens. Go read a few casting calls, more often than not, you'll see them specifically ask for white actors only in the lead roles. So, no, you can't insist on "colour-blind" hiring, because the tendency is still to default to white. Until the big money behind Hollywood are convinced that guys like Elba are viable leads, you're going to have more cases of the Odd Actor Out in movies. And they won't change their mind until people start showing some real support behind the idea of opening up the pool of lead roles to include ethnic actors.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

I'm no expert or anything, but I don't think anyone of direct Nordic descent was black, that'd be like having Bruce Willis play Malcolm X.

I'm sure this guy does a great job, but I can understand where these critics are coming from.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

I find it much more outraging that they claim that the home of the icegiants is Jotunheim, while everyone with at least minimal education should know its niflheim

Wait, isn't Nifelheim the land of mist, i.e the land of the dead?
Hel ruling the whole shindig and whatnot?

I'm working on my adolescent memories and understanding of the mythology, so I might be wrong.

Not totally wrong. but its still home of the icegiants. ice=death think in terms of time and its understandable.Get lost one night in winter you are dead. Jötunheim ( i hope this side supports umlaute) is home of giants yes. But the icegiants where part of niflheim.

Hmm... As I recall the Ice Giants were one of the first things to exist, along side the fire giants, because Ice and Fire were the first forces in the void. When the two came together they exploded and produced Ymir. The way I recall it, the home of the ice giants and fire giants sat at the extreme edges of the universe. However, you are quite right about the frost giants not residing in Jotunheim, because that's the place of the regular (hummanoid) giants descended from Ymir, who gave birth to the forms of man and god in a way eerily similar to Brahma in Hindu cosmology (frankly, since both societies have the same Indo-European linguistic origin, I think their religions might have a similar origin). I think there's some confusion between the world of the dead and the world of the frost giants, even Wikipedia says so (though Wikipedia is hardly the most reliable source):

"The above identities for the Nine Homeworlds are common. However the relationships between these and other significant realms have resulted in confusion. Precise mapping remains uncertain. For example, Hel is said to be located in Niflheim:[10]

As for Hel, ... Odin sent her down into the realm of mist and darkness, Niflheim. There she rules a kingdom encircled by a high wall and secured by strong gates.

Later scribes may have believed Hel, or at least Niflhel, was identical with Niflheimr. Properly, Niflhel is the lowest level of Hel where the evil dead suffer torment, whereas Niflheimr is the primordeal realm of icy mist, yet some early manuscripts consistently confuse these two names.[11]

"The confusion between Niflheim and Nifhel is summed up by variation in the manuscript of Snorri's [Prose] Edda. In describing the fate of the giant master builder of the wall around Asgard, two of the four main sources say Thor bashed the giant's head and sent him to Niflheim, and the other two say Thor sent him to Niflhel."[12]

The primordeal Niflheimr and the punishing Niflhel are 'equally dreadful' places, possibly identical.[13] Yet, Hel and Niflhel may remain distinct."

 

[Technicka]

I'm no expert or anything, but I don't think anyone of direct Nordic descent was black, that'd be like having Bruce Willis play Malcolm X.

I'm sure this guy does a great job, but I can understand where these critics are coming from.

Except Malcolm X was a real person. Heimdall? Not so much.

And as for the issue of decent, well, that's up for debate. I can trace my family tree back to the Netherlands to around the 1500s, and I'm pretty obviously black, so who's to say that some Viking didn't have his way with an African and their descendant pops up in the UK generations later?

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

Lots of good points.

Since we aren't entirely sure how the casting process went...we're all pretty much making assumptions. I will, however, point out that Kenneth Branagh picks his actors based off talent rather than their appearance; a common practice with stage productions. He's done it before with hiring a black actor because he was impressed with him, and the rest of the cast was all shades of white. So, going by his past actions, I don't think it was a "liberal agenda" deal.

There's still this (beyond stupid) idea in the entertainment industry that too many of any ethnic group somehow makes the movie a genre that's typically associated with them. Too many Asians? People will think it's a martial arts flick. Too many blacks? Well, it's just got to be a Tyler Perry movie! Native Americans? Spiritual, or historical piece. Studios aren't comfortable with putting the kind of money Thor got behind anything too against the norm, and as such, we're left with the concept of the Token Roles in this types of films.

That's fair. Like I said, I don't have much of a problem with a black actor playing a Norse god if it's in a disconnected sci-fi setting. If it was attempting to be actual mythology it would just be very out of place, unless you were trying go present the mythology beyond the way the people who actually believed in it understood it as some plausible scenario, which is kind of what the movie is trying to do. As far as hiring the best actors for the role, I'm all for it. Man, I'm tired of watching pretty people who can't act.

 

[Cytorrak]

I like how the thread starter mentions the example of utter hypocrisy this issue brings up in a complete handwaving motion.

When The Last Airbender cast was announced, there were dozens of online petitions and websites put up declaring that the movie was racist because much of the cast was white.

Ignoring that it was cast by a man of Indian descent.

Ignoring that the characters in question all had blue eyes in the cartoon.

Ignoring that the cartoon was not set on Earth, and so there were no such terms as "Inuit" or "Caucasian" to begin with.

Still, there was tons of protest and hand-wringing, and oh that racist racist white... M. Night Shymalan!

Here, the reverse happens, and you have the audacity to call the people complaining racist? Why didn't you level these complaints at those protesting The Last Airbender you damned hypocrite? You disgust me.

And to the gaggle of idiots replying to this with "OMG HE WAS AWESOME" "IT WAS SO EPIC" "HE WAS DA ONLY THING I LIKED HURF DURF" I think you've completely and utterly missed the point on pretty much every single level.

There were no black Norsemen. Heimdall was white in the comic, and in the actual mythology is the "whitest of the gods" That's you know, his title. In a pantheon where someone having black hair was enough for them to be "the black".

And yes, there was one single comic where Heimdall was black, but it took place in an out of canon separate universe, and was written after the movie started filming, not 616 or Ultimate.

And yes, I was offended by Samuel L. Jackson being cast as Nick Fury, mostly because I utterly hated the Ultimate universe. I also take issue with the utterly shit costume design for Captain America and the fact that it's in the script that he's written as hating his comic book costume. I've also taken issue with every single shitty X-Men movie Fox as vomited at us, and in particular despise Bryan Singer.

Did I mention I'm Hispanic? Before someone screeches racism like a howler monkey.

If you're going to stray from the source material, there's no point in the adaptation at all, because it isn't the same story. It's a different, Hollywood story with the name of something people like. It's cheap, it's crass, and it's disgusting. Every single time. It's like putting out an ad that you're selling a Porsche, but when buyers show up they're greeted with an olive green Pinto with the word "PORSCHE" spray painted on the side. Hollywood doesn't make good movies, why should we ever trust a single decision they make?

Also, no one thinks it's a completely asinine argument to make that it's okay to switch a character's race because there's magic and space aliens involved? Would the same convention apply to the supremely magical Monkey King from Journey to the West?

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

And as for the issue of decent, well, that's up for debate. I can trace my family tree back to the Netherlands to around the 1500s, and I'm pretty obviously black, so who's to say that some Viking didn't have his way with an African and their descendant pops up in the UK generations later?

Actually, I think they've actually proved that that the vikings were on the west coast of Africa through genetic testing. Those vikings really got around. I think they found some in South America too. I'm a little skeptical myself, so if you can find where they actually claim this then all the better. As my father says (who is a big genealogy buff), "if you're a racist you better not get your DNA sequenced."

 

[fulano]

It still makes sense if you think about it. They're a bunch of fucking aliens that have been visiting and the norse viewed them as gods and thus how would the gods look like? it's more natural to assume that their gods would look like them. Even if a tall black skinned yelllow-eyed alien wearing a massive golden armor and cooing an hypnotist's voice happened to be among them.

Butthurt fans will be butthurt fans, though. I can't wait for the time they make a movie with an Asian Superman and the bricks they will shit.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Well, it isn't because we're racist.
It's because the Norse gods were all white.
(Ya dumb prick)
Since most of the vikings lived in the northern parts of Europe then they didn't see alot of black folk, so they thought that the gods were just more badass versions of them selves (hence the reason why the Aesir are not immortal).
So it's rather silly that a black guy was playing a Norse god, not because I'm a racist, but because I like it when people actually follow the story and follow mythology.
This would be like taking Anubis and putting him in a clown costume.

you are talking about stargate ?
Yeah i totally would agree with you. But its (like i said before) not a movie about norse mythology, its a marvel superhero movie. So its ok. Its not about the actual gods, its about comic book characters in tights. Asian mmos are raping norse myths for years, without loud cries of terror. marvel still does a decent job at it. ('xcept the tights).

It is a superhero movie built from Norse mythology.
You do know that they just don't call them Odin,Thor and Heimdallur for no good reason? =P
Also Mjolnir *cough* Norse mythology.

and? just because some american comic book writers decide to use the names it dosnt mean they want to make a correct depiction of mythology. They want to tell their stories inspired by things they think were awesome.
And that is all.
They never said they wanted to give a genuine reproduction of the Edda or other myths

 

[RN7]

Well...we can't technically prove the Norse Gods weren't black. Because they don't exist. In that sense, they shouldn't have cast Jesus Christ, an Israelite Jew, as a white person. Oh wait...

OT: Race really shouldn't matter. Especially in this day where nostalgia is being murdered left and right. *cough* Transformers and Spyro *cough* As long as this guy's a good actor, who honestly cares. No one important, at least.

 

[diablomaki]

There is love.

 

[Nurb]

Also, the issue is that people (specifically, white people) are in the status quo more likely to get a given role "just for the level of skin pigmentation." Removing this favoritism from the equation (in this case, casting an actor based on his ability to play Heimdall vs. his resemblance to what the people thousands of years ago who worhipped Heimdall look like) is not the same as replacing it with a different favoritism.

Hiring based on talent is a great idea. Problem is, that rarely happens. Go read a few casting calls, more often than not, you'll see them specifically ask for white actors only in the lead roles. So, no, you can't insist on "colour-blind" hiring, because the tendency is still to default to white. Until the big money behind Hollywood are convinced that guys like Elba are viable leads, you're going to have more cases of the Odd Actor Out in movies. And they won't change their mind until people start showing some real support behind the idea of opening up the pool of lead roles to include ethnic actors.

But that's just excusing race-based hiring. If we're talking just about ability, then there shouldn't be any accusation of "whitewashing" in the new "Americanized" live action Akira movie. (which is going to suck no matter who's cast). Also, making the assumption someone got their role because of their skin color and making is racism Too.

Hollywood is one of the most liberal places in the country filled with people that made Mel Gibson apologize for his drunken idiocy, but there's these holdouts from the 50's in charge somewhere? A lot of the producers, directors, and writers who make the actor selections are jewish too, so the "status quo" implication includes them as well you know.

A double standard is a double standard and I'm a liberal bisexual, so I run into them all the time from straight and gay people alike and catch plenty of shit when I refuse to treat someone differently when dating just because of their gender. That's why I want people to just make up their minds because trying to fix racism with racism isn't a solution, it's just "the ends justifying the means".

I like how the thread starter mentions the example of utter hypocrisy this issue brings up in a complete handwaving motion.

When The Last Airbender cast was announced, there were dozens of online petitions and websites put up declaring that the movie was racist because much of the cast was white.

Ignoring that it was cast by a man of Indian descent.

Ignoring that the characters in question all had blue eyes in the cartoon.

Ignoring that the cartoon was not set on Earth, and so there were no such terms as "Inuit" or "Caucasian" to begin with.

Still, there was tons of protest and hand-wringing, and oh that racist racist white... M. Night Shymalan!

Here, the reverse happens, and you have the audacity to call the people complaining racist? Why didn't you level these complaints at those protesting The Last Airbender?....

Snip

I'll just quote this to further underline my point about the double-standards people have.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

When others complain, it's whitewashing.

When the white folks complain, it's racism.

Either way, the white folks are the ones catching shit.

If people would just end the double standatds and make up their minds about accepting other races in pre-established characters OR holding firm to the original character race I'd be less annoyed.

I like how the thread starter mentions the example of utter hypocrisy this issue brings up in a complete handwaving motion.

When The Last Airbender cast was announced, there were dozens of online petitions and websites put up declaring that the movie was racist because much of the cast was white.

Ignoring that it was cast by a man of Indian descent.

Ignoring that the characters in question all had blue eyes in the cartoon.

Ignoring that the cartoon was not set on Earth, and so there were no such terms as "Inuit" or "Caucasian" to begin with.

Still, there was tons of protest and hand-wringing, and oh that racist racist white... M. Night Shymalan!

Here, the reverse happens, and you have the audacity to call the people complaining racist? Why didn't you level these complaints at those protesting The Last Airbender you damned hypocrite? You disgust me.

And to the gaggle of idiots replying to this with "OMG HE WAS AWESOME" "IT WAS SO EPIC" "HE WAS DA ONLY THING I LIKED HURF DURF" I think you've completely and utterly missed the point on pretty much every single level.

There were no black Norsemen. Heimdall was white in the comic, and in the actual mythology is the "whitest of the gods" That's you know, his title. In a pantheon where someone having black hair was enough for them to be "the black".

And yes, there was one single comic where Heimdall was black, but it took place in an out of canon separate universe, and was written after the movie started filming, not 616 or Ultimate.

And yes, I was offended by Samuel L. Jackson being cast as Nick Fury, mostly because I utterly hated the Ultimate universe. I also take issue with the utterly shit costume design for Captain America and the fact that it's in the script that he's written as hating his comic book costume. I've also taken issue with every single shitty X-Men movie Fox as vomited at us, and in particular despise Bryan Singer.

Did I mention I'm Hispanic? Before someone screeches racism like a howler monkey.

If you're going to stray from the source material, there's no point in the adaptation at all, because it isn't the same story. It's a different, Hollywood story with the name of something people like. It's cheap, it's crass, and it's disgusting. Every single time. It's like putting out an ad that you're selling a Porsche, but when buyers show up they're greeted with an olive green Pinto with the word "PORSCHE" spray painted on the side. Hollywood doesn't make good movies, why should we ever trust a single decision they make?

Also, no one thinks it's a completely asinine argument to make that it's okay to switch a character's race because there's magic and space aliens involved? Would the same convention apply to the supremely magical Monkey King from Journey to the West?

Thank you for saying what I have wished to say much better than I could ever say it.