Black Thor Actor Talks About Racist Comic Book Fans

[dashiz94]

I think it's the fact that he's so OUT OF PLACE. What his casting screams to me is, "Wow, we have a bunch of white guys for Norse gods, let's just put a black guy in so we don't come across as 'White Power.'"

Most intelligent people don't care about the canon, or Norse mythology, it's that it is so obviously casting a token black actor.

 

[Necromancer1991]

Really I don't see the issue at all, they aren't even gods in this canon (at least not in the same sense as in the main canon), they're aliens be glad any of them are white at all!

 

[Technicka]

Hopefully, in regard to your last point.

As to your first point, yes, in fact mythological inaccuracies bother me even more when the movie is supposed to be directly representing the mythology. Hades as evil really bothered me when I watched it, even as a kid, just because of my knowledge of Greek mythology. In fact, I think I remember complaining about it in the movie theater and being told to shut up. It was Hera who was the one to mess with Heracles. (Hercules is actually the Roman version, so I try to keep it consistent, either Hercules, Jupiter and Juno, or Heracles, Zeus and Hera, just another pet peeve amongst many).

But I agree, because it's really a comic book adaptation of mythology it isn't as important. However, it's still going to bother me that they've changed the most fundamental tenets of Norse mythology. It also bothered me a little in Stargate, but the greys were so different from the gods they represent that it wasn't as bad. I'm not sure if I even want to see the movie because it just might bother me too much.

You're right, Heracles would've been the more accurate form to use. I tend to just default to the more commonly accepted spelling.


I just come from a different school of thought when it comes to depictions of "gods." As their, oft times, imagined in the likeness of their believers, their "true" form is never known - so it's hardly a stretch for one depiction to differ from another. Jesus used to be viewed only as straight-up Aryan, after all. And Heimdall has had stories where he's altered his physical appearance to move about Midgard, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he decided he wanted to be a dashing black guy for a bit.

The sad reality, for you, is that while you're stance is a justified one of accuracy...there's a good number of none too subtle racists rallying behind your cause, and effectively tainting it. You're obviously a purists on all grounds of mythology, so I can respect you dissatisfaction with the casting on those grounds. I may not agree, but I understand.

Can we stop saying that this has anything to do with race? The biggest problem for me is that they are not being consistent. The rest of the pantheon is completely white, so Heimdall doesnt come off as simply an equal character that happens to be black: he becomes "token black guy" automatically.

One of the Warriors Three is Asian. Funny how there isn't any fuss made over that casting.

If a character is black, fine. If a character is made black because you suddenly realised everyone was white, then *sigh*, that?s just stagnant. Is anyone actually offended if a movie doesn?t have a black person? Do people really think a mere coincidence is a deliberate racist attack? Isn?t that sort of racist in itself? Racism ceases to exist the day no one even thinks about skin colour as a problem, but it has to go both ways.

That's a terribly naive approach. Racism doesn't exist in a vacuum. Firstly, the director comes from the world of stage where casting is based off talent, not appearance, so this isn't an odd move for him. He did it before with Denzel Washington, and he'll do it again in another movie down the line. So his was hardly a case of "We need a minority!"

As for people being offended. Well, yes. People, especially people of colour, are fed up with having to be told that they can't carry movies as leads; that Asians, Blacks, Native Americas, etc. can't be heroes. The number of quality roles for minorities in Hollywood is pretty pitiful, so it's not as if those aspiring actors have the same shot at stardom as Shia LeBeouf.

And, no, it doesn't have to go both ways. That implies there's an equality of disservice being done on both sides. Sorry, but whites have a very clear advantage in Western society, so PoC don't have to make concessions to them in the name of fairness.

 

[LiquidGrape]

I find it much more outraging that they claim that the home of the icegiants is Jotunheim, while everyone with at least minimal education should know its niflheim

Wait, isn't Nifelheim the land of mist, i.e the land of the dead?
Hel ruling the whole shindig and whatnot?

I'm working on my adolescent memories and understanding of the mythology, so I might be wrong.

 

[theultimateend]

It does seem dumb(especialy if your complaining just because of race) but I can kinda understand, I'd find it a bit off if I saw a white, Yami Malik Ishtar or Killer Bee if they ever made a live version movie of Yu-Gi-Oh!/Naruto.

This whole thing makes me wonder how folks are going to reconcile the backlast to the last airbender having a bunch of white people in it.

It would appear it is only a major problem when white actors take the place of non-white actors and not the other way around.

(Personally I don't care either way, he sounds like a good guy and I bet he did great. I'm more interested in the who than the what).

Ok, anyone who has a problem here is NOT having a problem about the portrayal of Gods - they are just being racist.
Thor contains various scenes of various Gods looking like fools, being beaten up and being tricked. All things accounted for, Idris Elba's Heimdall was one of the most respectful and duty-understanding Gods in the film.

So I don't think its a God thing, just a racist thing.

Well luckily you didn't come off sounding like a closed minded bigot yourself.

Otherwise that would have been a hilarious post.

 

[Kurokami]

Black Thor Actor Talks About Racist Comic Book Fans

Magic and monsters are fine, but a black guy playing a Norse god? That's taking things too far.

Idris Elba, who plays Heimdall in Marvel's Thor movie, has spoken about the backlash caused by the casting of a black actor as a Norse god. Elba's casting has infuriated a number of groups who feel it is insulting to have a person of color playing a figure often referred to as the "Whitest of the Gods."

Elba indicated that complaints about his casting came in two types: There were the purist comic books fans who were upset about the changes made to the canon - Heimdall [http://marvel.com/universe/Heimdall] is depicted as white in the comics - and then there were others whose complaints were solely motivated by race. He was reluctant to speak about it too much though, as he didn't want to fuel the issue. Ultimately, he said, if people didn't like the casting decisions, they should just stay at home and not see the movie.

Sadly, the fan backlash against Elba's casting is not a new phenomenon - Penny Arcade tackled it in a comic [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/12/20/] late last year - and it isn't the first time that Elba has talked about it. Just over a year ago, he said that Thor had so many fantastical elements that he was amazed that anyone would pay attention to the color of his skin. He acknowledged that he didn't really look like the traditional image of a Scandinavian, but said that in future there would be more diversity in Hollywood casting. "I was cast in Thor and I'm cast as a Nordic god," he said. "If you know anything about the Nords, they don't look like me but there you go. I think that's a sign of the times for the future. I think we will see multi-level casting. I think we will see that, and I think that's good."

Unfortunately, that's not an opinion shared by his detractors. Some [http://boycott-thor.com/] of the Elba's staunchest - although ostensibly not racially motivated - opponents accuse Marvel of left-wing social engineering, noting that it attacked the Tea Party movement in a recent issue of Captain America, and that Stan Lee is known to support left-wing politicians. Other [http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t703651/] complainants, who are more directly racist, talk about the "filthy culture of judaism [sic]" and how Elba's casting is an attack on "White Culture." While the latter accusation is both disgusting and ridiculous, the former - that the left wing is using the media, and especially Hollywood, as a vehicle for propaganda - is not new. It was also leveled at DC Comics following the news [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109659-Superman-Quits-America-Fox-News-Readers-Take-the-News-Badly] that Superman was going to renounce his US citizenship.

Although Elba doesn't look like a typical viking, it's not as if he's playing a historical figure, and it's hardly the only liberty that Marvel has taken with the Norse pantheon. As insults go, saying that the Norse gods were actually aliens with some really advanced technology - which is actually true in the Marvel canon - would seem to be much worse than casting a black actor as Heimdall, but strangely, no one seems to be bothered about that fact. All joking aside though, race in the media is a delicate and difficult subject, whether you're talking about the accusations of "whitewashing [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/91423-Avatar-Protest-Shut-Down-By-Viacom-Copyright-Claim]" in The Last Airbender movie - which is the casting of white actors as characters of color - or the accusations of racism [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/89242-Resident-Evil-5-Coverage-Reignites-Racism-Debate] in Resident Evil 5. It's an issue that people need to keep talking about though, because like any serious issue, it's not going to go away if we just ignore it.

Source: Hero Complex [http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/05/02/thor-star-idris-elba-on-fan-racism-and-ghost-rider-sequel-but-not-prometheus/]










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I thought he was freakin' amazing. The guy that pissed me off was the over-Japanese norse god. And what really really pisses me off is Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury. Nick's known for being a professional, not a stereotypical black guy badass which is all that Samuel L Jackson ever acts.

But meh.

 

[Tarkand]

I don't really care that they took a black actor for Heimdall, but it is an odd choice and it makes you wonder just how straightforward the decision was.

It was pretty obvious it would create controversy... so did they go for that?

There's also the whole stink of 'policital correctness' here - the Norse Gods have their token black guy.

It is very likely that he got the role simply because he was the best man for the job - but they'll always be a bit of a reasonable doubt that this was done as kind of publicity stunt and/or PC issue - even if (as critics seem to be saying) he really owned the role.

 

[Kurokami]

I just want one question answered. If Heimdall is being played by a black man then why is his sister Sif being played by a white chick? Color me confused. I think there is a bit of token casting going on here, and if you call them out on it you are a racist. I say Sif should have been black as well.

No where in the movie, as far as I know, did they mention they were related, which could well mean that they're not in the movie. Maybe it was their way of avoiding a whole other pointless side story.

 

[YesConsiderably]

In all likeliness, the Aesir would have all been grey anyway, so i don't get why people are complaining.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

You're right, Heracles would've been the more accurate form to use. I tend to just default to the more commonly accepted spelling.

I just come from a different school of thought when it comes to depictions of "gods." As their, oft times, imagined in the likeness of their believers, their "true" form is never known - so it's hardly a stretch for one depiction to differ from another. Jesus used to be viewed only as straight-up Aryan, after all. And Heimdall has had stories where he's altered his physical appearance to move about Midgard, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he decided he wanted to be a dashing black guy for a bit.

Well, I think you confused my argument with other people. Remember, I wasn't so much complaining about the black Heimdall as the Aesir being galactic peacekeepers, which just stands in such absolute tension with the tradition. I think that once you've made it so that they're aliens it's hard to argue why one of the gods can't be black, hell, they could be gray little men like in Stargate. That being said, I think to only make one character black in a source material where everyone is traditionally perceived to be white could very well be deliberately provocative on the part of the people in charge, and probably not just an unconscious decision. Make of that what you will.

The sad reality, for you, is that while you're stance is a justified one of accuracy...there's a good number of none too subtle racists rallying behind your cause, and effectively tainting it. You're obviously a purists on all grounds of mythology, so I can respect you dissatisfaction with the casting on those grounds. I may not agree, but I understand.

Meh. There's almost always an idiot on your side in most debates, no matter which side you take. Anyone who only points out the fanatics as the representatives of the other side is committing a straw man fallacy, and anyone who uses the presence of these people to generalize the supporters of the cause as 'racists', 'communists' or what-have-you is not only overgeneralizing and committing an argument ad hominem. At the end of the day, you either decide an issue through rational argumentation, or you haven't decided anything.

And, no, it doesn't have to go both ways. That implies there's an equality of disservice being done on both sides. Sorry, but whites have a very clear advantage in Western society, so PoC don't have to make concessions to them in the name of fairness.

True, but that's only convincing if fairness is the only thing at issue. As we've discussed, I'd place accuracy up there too. But since accuracy doesn't really apply here, I would point out that only having one black guy in the cast is very strange. If you're going to be multiracial, you should actually be multiracial. Just adding one black character seems suspect.

 

[jspheonix]

Heimdall was AWESOME. Every scene I kept thinking "This guys the s**t" and I don't swear often

 

[Fetzenfisch]

I find it much more outraging that they claim that the home of the icegiants is Jotunheim, while everyone with at least minimal education should know its niflheim

Wait, isn't Nifelheim the land of mist, i.e the land of the dead?
Hel ruling the whole shindig and whatnot?

I'm working on my adolescent memories and understanding of the mythology, so I might be wrong.

Not totally wrong. but its still home of the icegiants. ice=death think in terms of time and its understandable.Get lost one night in winter you are dead. Jötunheim ( i hope this side supports umlaute) is home of giants yes. But the icegiants where part of niflheim.

 

[The Stonker]

Well, it isn't because we're racist.
It's because the Norse gods were all white.
(Ya dumb prick)
Since most of the vikings lived in the northern parts of Europe then they didn't see alot of black folk, so they thought that the gods were just more badass versions of them selves (hence the reason why the Aesir are not immortal).
So it's rather silly that a black guy was playing a Norse god, not because I'm a racist, but because I like it when people actually follow the story and follow mythology.
This would be like taking Anubis and putting him in a clown costume.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Well, it isn't because we're racist.
It's because the Norse gods were all white.
(Ya dumb prick)
Since most of the vikings lived in the northern parts of Europe then they didn't see alot of black folk, so they thought that the gods were just more badass versions of them selves (hence the reason why the Aesir are not immortal).
So it's rather silly that a black guy was playing a Norse god, not because I'm a racist, but because I like it when people actually follow the story and follow mythology.
This would be like taking Anubis and putting him in a clown costume.

you are talking about stargate ?
Yeah i totally would agree with you. But its (like i said before) not a movie about norse mythology, its a marvel superhero movie. So its ok. Its not about the actual gods, its about comic book characters in tights. Asian mmos are raping norse myths for years, without loud cries of terror. marvel still does a decent job at it. ('xcept the tights).

 

[Andothul]

Dude Heimdall was the best character in the whole movie and he is black. If anyone was miscast it was Thor and Odin, i didn't like Hopkins in this that much.

And to be honest people forget one thing. THESE ARE GODS. They take whatever form they please if i'm not mistaken Aesir are GALACTIC peace keepers so if they were little green men i wouldn't be upset.

 

[The Stonker]

Well, it isn't because we're racist.
It's because the Norse gods were all white.
(Ya dumb prick)
Since most of the vikings lived in the northern parts of Europe then they didn't see alot of black folk, so they thought that the gods were just more badass versions of them selves (hence the reason why the Aesir are not immortal).
So it's rather silly that a black guy was playing a Norse god, not because I'm a racist, but because I like it when people actually follow the story and follow mythology.
This would be like taking Anubis and putting him in a clown costume.

you are talking about stargate ?
Yeah i totally would agree with you. But its (like i said before) not a movie about norse mythology, its a marvel superhero movie. So its ok. Its not about the actual gods, its about comic book characters in tights. Asian mmos are raping norse myths for years, without loud cries of terror. marvel still does a decent job at it. ('xcept the tights).

It is a superhero movie built from Norse mythology.
You do know that they just don't call them Odin,Thor and Heimdallur for no good reason? =P
Also Mjolnir *cough* Norse mythology.

 

[Nurb]

When others complain, it's whitewashing.

When the white folks complain, it's racism.

Either way, the white folks are the ones catching shit.

If people would just end the double standatds and make up their minds about accepting other races in pre-established characters OR holding firm to the original character race I'd be less annoyed.