Blizzad reveals new characters for Overwatch

[Mutant1988]

I just starting ignoring mutant, not only did he put words in my mouth with every reply, he did so with statements in my comments that contradicted what he said, continued to do so even after I pointed that out.

Except not. You said that the character was added to be ugly. You asserted that the character only existed to be ugly. You claimed that people would actually want other things than "ugly".

You're dismissive and insulting. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean to be, because you still were.

Feel free to take the quotes I posted and tell me what part I'm misinterpreting. I even underlined the important bits for your convenience.

Lol it would be a pile of BS to think otherwise, all this is not over some character people really, really like

I do respect people who like the character for the design, they are just few and far between because people do not get this many people don't get this worked up over a character design, there are actual articles about how this is good, what others like is bad.

Because it had nothing to with muscles it just shows what it was really about, it was making an unattractive female as some sort of protest, I gave examples of things people may actually want (robots, monster girls, elementals) you have made my point for me, this was simply about making it not be attractive

As you point you just wanted unattractive females despite there being plenty of diversity within that area, not interesting just unattractive. You can have unattractive if that's what you want but that should be personnel taste, not some statement against what others like.

Also respect. Except not, because you claim "they" only wanted her to be ugly, to protest, etc.

 

[Silvanus]

It's bloody lamentable that this is controversial.

The new characters look fine, and there's no reasonable reason to think they're there as a result of bullying or anything other than regular criticism.

The fact that people are kicking up a stink about this illustrates for me why people are getting the impression the audience is hostile to diversity. Really face-palm-worthy stuff.

 

[theNater]

Is that... like... how it's always been done though?

It's really not. A lot of companies are stuck in the old "focus group" model, where they pick a handful of people they think are likely to play their game, and ask those people a lot of questions. A few are in the even worse model of "targeted design", where they pick a demographic group and then only do what they think will appeal to that group, without even asking(material for children is especially prone to this). And then there's some who never talk about the complaints, because they don't want to appear to be "caving" to the people complaining.

It's important to remember that the internet is a new thing. As little as ten years ago, somewhere in the neighborhood of half of the people in our countries didn't have it. Lots of people are still learning what it can do. This means two things: First, that a lot of companies are still figuring out how to deal with internet complaints, and second that if you see a complaint you haven't seen before, it's likely that complaint is actually held by people who didn't know how or where to express it. Not through being inherently stupid, merely for not having had the proper resources.

 

[inmunitas]

Slanders gamers for demanding higher standards how? If anything, the gaming press has criticized the vocal critics of progressive changes and minority groups interests (Or hell, women, which is anything but a minority) being catered to as being wholly non-constructive and insanely hostile.

False, no progressive changes are being made, they're all too short sighted and temporary. Gaming press sites, as in Polygon, Kotaku etc. are using "clickbait" headlines/articles in an effort garner more traffic as they increasingly become less relevant.

And no, I'm not making assertion of things you've not "made". You said that the incompetent morons side with the critics this time. Who is the incompetent morons, why are they incompetent and how are you any better when you don't describe WHAT they do wrong?

Incompetent, adjective, not having or showing the necessary skills to do something successfully. They wouldn't be loosing relevance if they had adapted to change, and wouldn't have to resort to "clickbait" to maintain traffic.

And again, what in the current development is so bad. And how is this design bad when it's unnecessary by your own admission. Why then does it matter either which way?

It's unnecessary as it doesn't change the audience. Console market is stagnant, latest consoles lack innovation and the hardware was obsolete on release. Follow Valve, Intel and their tech partners and groups if you really want lasting progressive changes.

 

[The Goat Tsar]

I wanted to talk about McCree but I've clearly come to wrong place.

 

[EternallyBored]

I wanted to talk about McCree but I've clearly come to wrong place.

Interestingly enough, he was featured rather prominently in the original group shots in the reveal trailer, like front and center, when other characters in the initial reveal weren't in the same trailer, the other characters in the trailer and early art actually give an interesting look at potential future characters, including a sort of feminine looking robot, and a big fat road warrior looking guy with a gas mask and tire armor.

McCree himself honestly looks like he is pretty straightforward at this point, his ultimate could very well end up being OP as hell depending on how it's implemented, and the flashbangs are an odd choice considering his cowboy theme, but the main thing I see with him is that he seems a lot less mobile than other characters like Widowmaker, Reaper, and Pharah. He seems like he has a very limited movement range at the moment, and I foresee him getting some overhauls throughout the beta.

 

[The Goat Tsar]

I wanted to talk about McCree but I've clearly come to wrong place.

Interestingly enough, he was featured rather prominently in the original group shots in the reveal trailer, like front and center, when other characters in the initial reveal weren't in the same trailer, the other characters in the trailer and early art actually give an interesting look at potential future characters, including a sort of feminine looking robot, and a big fat road warrior looking guy with a gas mask and tire armor.

McCree himself honestly looks like he is pretty straightforward at this point, his ultimate could very well end up being OP as hell depending on how it's implemented, and the flashbangs are an odd choice considering his cowboy theme, but the main thing I see with him is that he seems a lot less mobile than other characters like Widowmaker, Reaper, and Pharah. He seems like he has a very limited movement range at the moment, and I foresee him getting some overhauls throughout the beta.

From what has been described to me, he moves very slowly and I like those kind of characters because positioning becomes important. When new players used his ultimate, apparently they ended up dying charging up the headshots rather than killing three people like in the trailers. I agree the flashbangs are weird for his character but I think that's just there to give him some compensation for moving slowly and not being a tank. I won't be surprised if Blizzard swaps the flashbangs for a more cowboy-themed crowd control ability. His abilities are relatively simple but his low mobility and difficult to use ultimate makes him look easy to learn, hard to master.

 

[EternallyBored]

I wanted to talk about McCree but I've clearly come to wrong place.

Interestingly enough, he was featured rather prominently in the original group shots in the reveal trailer, like front and center, when other characters in the initial reveal weren't in the same trailer, the other characters in the trailer and early art actually give an interesting look at potential future characters, including a sort of feminine looking robot, and a big fat road warrior looking guy with a gas mask and tire armor.

McCree himself honestly looks like he is pretty straightforward at this point, his ultimate could very well end up being OP as hell depending on how it's implemented, and the flashbangs are an odd choice considering his cowboy theme, but the main thing I see with him is that he seems a lot less mobile than other characters like Widowmaker, Reaper, and Pharah. He seems like he has a very limited movement range at the moment, and I foresee him getting some overhauls throughout the beta.

From what has been described to me, he moves very slowly and I like those kind of characters because positioning becomes important. When new players used his ultimate, apparently they ended up dying charging up the headshots rather than killing three people like in the trailers. I agree the flashbangs are weird for his character but I think that's just there to give him some compensation for moving slowly and not being a tank. I won't be surprised if Blizzard swaps the flashbangs for a more cowboy-themed crowd control ability. His abilities are relatively simple but his low mobility and difficult to use ultimate makes him look easy to learn, hard to master.

He comes off as a very burst damage character from what I've seen. The revolver looks like it does some hefty damage, and fanning the hammer seems to give him the ability to basically tear people apart at close range. The dodge roll mechanic is interesting, and something I think Blizzard will tweak if he ends up needing more mobility, the fact that he can empty his gun, dodge roll to reload, and then empty it again seems to make him look like a slower more offensive version of Tracer.

No idea what to make of the flashbang, it just seems like an odd ability, they might tweak it or change it entirely, but the concept as it is right now seems to be to give him a way to pin faster characters down for a second so he can fan the hammer and unload his entire cylinder into them.

Overall, a very straightforward character with abilities that largely center around getting to use using his hand cannon to down enemies and using dodge roll and flashbang to chain close range kills, he will probably work best in very close range.

 

[Zhukov]

McCree himself honestly looks like he is pretty straightforward at this point, his ultimate could very well end up being OP as hell depending on how it's implemented...

I've seen it used in gameplay footage. If anything, it's underpowered.

He moves slowly while charging it and there are both audio and visual cues visible to enemies when it's activated.

It's basically a 'Please Shoot Me' button. Or, more accurately, "Please Shoot Me While I'm Relatively Immobile While Also Making Myself an Obvious Threat and Therefore Priority Target".

It could work wonder if combined with one of the shielding abilities (the gorrilla's shield, the monk's heal, maybe the paladin guy's shield if you can shoot through that), but without that degree of cooperation it's going to get the user killed more than anything else.

 

[ninja51]

They should have made his belt say DVNO. They're the seriously badass four capital letters... I mean if you're "really" set on four capital letters to remind someone how "cool" you are.

 

[inmunitas]

-Snip-

Hey could you answer my questions? You seem to have missed it so just giving you another notification here.

Here's the posts to save you the time of going back and requoting it:

You're putting in a Southerner and claiming they represent all of Britain, that is discrimination.

Could you point me to where I claimed that?

And then could you explain how it's discrimination rather than just saying it is?

Your failure to recognise the United Kingdom as just that, a union of kingdoms, cockney is just England (and south England at that) what about the other countries? We see it all the time in the media.

#1: "Oh I've visited to the UK"
#2: "Oh I? Whereabouts did you go?"
#1: "London"

At least Valve did Scotland in TF2, makes a change.

 

[NPC009]

Your failure to recognise the United Kingdom as just that, a union of kingdoms, cockney is just England (and south England at that) what about the other countries? We see it all the time in the media.

#1: "Oh I've visited to the UK"
#2: "Oh I? Whereabouts did you go?"
#1: "London"

At least Valve did Scotland in TF2, makes a change.

Dude, this happens to pretty much every country that's big enough to have some noticeable diversity. People just go with something iconic, because it's sure to be recognised as something from that country. US? Texas, New York, Las Vegas or LA. I mean, in Overwatch the US got a cowboy. So, yeah. Japan? Tokyo, always Tokyo. (Or Edo, because samurai or ninja.) Or a little closer to your home: Holland is not the same as The Netherlands.

 

[Phasmal]

Your failure to recognise the United Kingdom as just that, a union of kingdoms, cockney is just England (and south England at that) what about the other countries? We see it all the time in the media.

#1: "Oh I've visited to the UK"
#2: "Oh I? Whereabouts did you go?"
#1: "London"

At least Valve did Scotland in TF2, makes a change.

Sorry to interrupt this kinda pointless argument, but if you're going to argue that it's not representative if there's more than one kind of accent in that country, you know there is more than one `Scottish` accent, right?
Just checking.

Also, speaking as someone who is related to a lot of cockneys, I don't know what anyone's bothered about- Tracer's cockney is god awful. I tried to look up who the VA is because I have a sneaking suspicion she's American.

 

[inmunitas]

Dude, this happens to pretty much every country that's big enough to have some noticeable diversity. People just go with something iconic, because it's sure to be recognised as something from that country. US? Texas, New York, Las Vegas or LA. I mean, in Overwatch the US got a cowboy. So, yeah. Japan? Tokyo, always Tokyo. (Or Edo, because samurai or ninja.) Or a little closer to your home: Holland is not the same as The Netherlands.

Sorry to interrupt this kinda pointless argument, but if you're going to argue that it's not representative if there's more than one kind of accent in that country, you know there is more than one `Scottish` accent, right?
Just checking.

Also, speaking as someone who is related to a lot of cockneys, I don't know what anyone's bothered about- Tracer's cockney is god awful. I tried to look up who the VA is because I have a sneaking suspicion she's American.

Ah see, as soon as it becomes something that doesn't bother you then it's suddenly a "pointless argument". How many video games take place or feature someone from Scotland, Wales or Ireland? Not many, and what about Holland or the Netherlands for that matter?

 

[Phasmal]

Ah see, as soon as it becomes something that doesn't bother you then it's suddenly a "pointless argument". How many video games take place or feature someone from Scotland, Wales or Ireland? Not many, and what about Holland or the Netherlands for that matter?

So, are you trying to say that unless we can represent every single person ever, we shouldn't be trying?

Ah, so you're trying to overblow it so it looks ridiculous. Well done, I guess?
But still, nah, diversity in games as a conversation isn't going away any time soon.
It is... tooo laaaaaaaaate.

 

[NPC009]

Oh, so now you suddenly care about representation and diversity, inmunitas?

While it would be nice to see games (and entertainment in general) use a greater variety of settings, you can't forget Overwatch is just having fun with international stereotypes. It's not trying to be insulting, it's just going for themes, accents and so on they know people will recognise.

 

[inmunitas]

Ah see, as soon as it becomes something that doesn't bother you then it's suddenly a "pointless argument". How many video games take place or feature someone from Scotland, Wales or Ireland? Not many, and what about Holland or the Netherlands for that matter?

So, are you trying to say that unless we can represent every single person ever, we shouldn't be trying?

Ah, so you're trying to overblow it so it looks ridiculous. Well done, I guess?
But still, nah, diversity in games as a conversation isn't going away any time soon.
It is... tooo laaaaaaaaate.

No, you're the one saying we shouldn't try. You claim that you want diversity in games, but you don't want that much more diversity then there already has been.

 

[Phasmal]

No, you're the one saying we shouldn't try. You claim that you want diversity in games, but you don't want that much more diversity then there already has been.

When did I say that?
Bring on the diversity. All the diversity.

All I said was

1- There's more than one Scottish accent (there is)
2- Tracer's cockney accent is really bad (it is).

 

[Somekindofgold]

They look pretty cool..but the reasons behind Zarya's creation just annoy me too much to like her.

Theres been academic research that shows that Gamers dont care all that much about what characters they play as long as they're good, and that 'playing as a character like you does not engender identification' (actual quote from the paper), so churning out a character just to address people concerned that theres not enough diversity or whatever in the Overwatch cast just rubs me the wrong way.

The fact that they turned around and just made a female Heavy makes it funny as well as annoying.

 

[EternallyBored]

They look pretty cool..but the reasons behind Zarya's creation just annoy me too much to like her.

Theres been academic research that shows that Gamers dont care all that much about what characters they play as long as they're good, and that 'playing as a character like you does not engender identification' (actual quote from the paper), so churning out a character just to address people concerned that theres not enough diversity or whatever in the Overwatch cast just rubs me the wrong way.

The fact that they turned around and just made a female Heavy makes it funny as well as annoying.

There has been ONE paper that bases its thesis on a couple of interviews and a survey. It also fails to present its data in a meaningful manner by throwing up personal anecdotes from the interviews rather than presenting the numerical data from the survey. The paper itself is full of speculation and supposition with little hard data to support it, the more controversial, "video games cause violence" studies had a more thorough methodology than that thing. It does just enough to justify its thesis as a topic to look further in to, it is not yet enough data to draw any concrete conclusion on though, and saying "research shows" is obfuscating the fact that research has "shown" plenty of things that turn out to be false down the line, a handful of interviews and a single survey aren't a conclusion their an introduction to conduct further research.