Blizzad reveals new characters for Overwatch

[Vigormortis]

snip

But I didn't go out of my way. (that pic took all of 2 seconds to find by typing "predator v protoss" into Google) From the moment I first played Starcraft back in the day I noticed the similarities. Straight away I recognized the techno-industrial theme from Aliens being copied in much of the Terran designs. I noticed an air of H.R. Giger in the Zerg designs - noticeably so with the Hydralisk and the creep/hive growths. I especially noticed the similarities between the Protoss and the Predators as the 'faceless, stoically noble warriors'.

And no, you're right, Aliens didn't 'invent' the trope of 'marines in space'. I would think the core of the idea likely originated with Starship Troopers - insofar as pop-culture influences are concerned. (especially the idea of power-suit wearing marines) But that doesn't mean Blizzard didn't copy many aspects of Aliens for their own universe building.

I mean, look....I'm not 'defending' Valve (or however one wants to put it). I'm not even saying that 'borrowing' designs is an inherently bad thing. I like Blizzard's games. I like Valve's games. All I'm trying to say is that they're both guilty of 'borrowing'.

[sub]I have to point out, though, that some characters, like Enchantress, are nothing more than classic creature designs from ancient mythology; a centaur in her case. Blizzard hardly holds any copyright or originality on such things.[/sub]

Blizzard ripped off the Warhammer franchises far closer. I hate defending Games Workshop, but it's so obvious if your familiar with them.

tangent: ofcourse GW did rip off tolkien and aliens. With tolkien they decided to make it grimdark, and with aliens they decided to make it super duper absurd. I love Space Hulk but yeah, it's basically aliens the game, without any of the interesting characters.

I've seen the similarities there as well, but part of the intended appeal of Starcraft and Warcraft was to play into players' nostalgia for the pop-culture classics like Aliens, Lord of the Rings, and Predator.

A copy of a copy is still a copy, though. Even so, I get what you're saying.

 

[Haerthan]

*snip*

No, publishers already do think a female protagonists is a risky business venture, that's the real problem.

http://www.pcgamer.com/remember-me-publisher-female-hero/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/developer-publishers-didnt-want-a-female-lead-in-our-video-game/

I know. I hate that.

It really doesn't connect to this though. I've already explained why in my previous post.

It does in that all this "inclusivity" nonsense (in regards to video game content) being pouted around is just superficial and doesn't solve actual problems. I'd rather the industry be more inclusive, then merely a thin veil of inclusivity.

[small]edit:
I'm not meaning you specifically of course, but the media in general[/small]

Whenever a company ever does something for the sake of diversity it is derided as unnecessary pandering.

How about just accepting the fact that you, the one pandered to by default, will not always be pandered to. There are other people too. And no, they might not be as many as "you", but they exist and some developers want their money to.

Solve actual problems? The usual suggestion from people like you is to do nothing at all.

How about - We put a diverse cast in games, get more diverse developers making games and more diverse people buying games? How do we go about this? An attitude change would be a good start.

The instant hostility against any king of catering to minority audiences needs to stop.
The poor treatment of women in workplaces (And in hiring practises) needs to stop.
The insulting tone against non-gamers (Women included) needs to stop.

And no, you can whinge about them catering to the demands of a minority if you want, but fact is - Blizzard want this too. Deal with it.

You think they are disingenuous in saying that they wanted a diverse cast? Well, that's a bold presumption you got there. Got anything to back that up with?

Superficial? Well then, how about we just cut out the male cast entirely then. But then that would be derided as feminist propaganda, wouldn't it? It's a lose/lose situation, isn't it?

Companies don't do anything for the "sake of diversity", they do it for profit and public relations. Games already have diverse casts and diverse people buying them, they've always have, some people on an idealogical crusade have just chosen to ignore that little inconvenient fact. Video game characters aren't real people, they don't "represent" any audience, research even shows this. You only push this "narrative" because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because it actually helps anyone.

OH REALLY? Diverse games? RIght now in 2015 the only game that comes to mind so far that is somewhat diverse is the Witcher 3, and even there you are playing the role of a straight while male (most of the time, there are sections where you play as his adopted daughter). Let us see Order 1886: straight white dude, Call of Duty (from 2014) straight white dude, Halo 1 through 5 (Reach not included cause of the way you could make your char and you never even see his/her face) white dude (although Sgt Johnson was awesome in my eyes). Evolve: out of 12 characters, 2 are white females and 1 black female with 1 black male, the rest being white grizzled males.

So stop crying about not being pandered to. It is tiring to see all these people crying about not being pandered to, when they are by default being pandered to. "Oh they made a character that doesn't fit the view I hold, got to scream and rage about it on the Internet". Or my favorite "artistic vision", yea cause criticism is stifling artistic vision. Get back to the real world dude. Put the controller or keyboard down and see that gaming is so diverse right now that your so-called "ideological crusade" is nothing more than criticism from long-neglected parts of the community.

As far as I know, the only developers that have been somewhat diverse throughout the decades are Blizzard (I do like Starcraft, Warcraft and what they are trying to do with HOTS and they asked for criticism, took and listened) Bioware (I mean come on, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, KOTORI and TOR are some of the best games in terms of storytelling and cast) and CD Projekt Red (and they are Polish- still dealing with the fallout of communism on its culture, just like we Romanians are)

So please stop acting like a petulant child when you aren't being actively pandered to and accept the fact that you are not a gatekeeper to gaming.

 

[inmunitas]

Companies don't do anything for the "sake of diversity", they do it for profit and public relations. Games already have diverse casts and diverse people buying them, they've always have, some people on an idealogical crusade have just chosen to ignore that little inconvenient fact. Video game characters aren't real people, they don't "represent" any audience, research even shows this. You only push this "narrative" because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because it actually helps anyone.

OH REALLY? Diverse games? RIght now in 2015 the only game that comes to mind so far that is somewhat diverse is the Witcher 3, and even there you are playing the role of a straight while male (most of the time, there are sections where you play as his adopted daughter). Let us see Order 1886: straight white dude, Call of Duty (from 2014) straight white dude, Halo 1 through 5 (Reach not included cause of the way you could make your char and you never even see his/her face) white dude (although Sgt Johnson was awesome in my eyes). Evolve: out of 12 characters, 2 are white females and 1 black female with 1 black male, the rest being white grizzled males.

So stop crying about not being pandered to. It is tiring to see all these people crying about not being pandered to, when they are by default being pandered to. "Oh they made a character that doesn't fit the view I hold, got to scream and rage about it on the Internet". Or my favorite "artistic vision", yea cause criticism is stifling artistic vision. Get back to the real world dude. Put the controller or keyboard down and see that gaming is so diverse right now that your so-called "ideological crusade" is nothing more than criticism from long-neglected parts of the community.

As far as I know, the only developers that have been somewhat diverse throughout the decades are Blizzard (I do like Starcraft, Warcraft and what they are trying to do with HOTS and they asked for criticism, took and listened) Bioware (I mean come on, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, KOTORI and TOR are some of the best games in terms of storytelling and cast) and CD Projekt Red (and they are Polish- still dealing with the fallout of communism on its culture, just like we Romanians are)

So please stop acting like a petulant child when you aren't being actively pandered to and accept the fact that you are not a gatekeeper to gaming.

Yet you can only name three? How about Unreal Tournament, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Grand Theft Auto, Conkers Bad Fur Day, Pandemonium, Mirrors' Edge, Portal, Left for Dead, Madden, FIFA, Extreme-G, WWE, Crash Bandicoot, Tomb Raider, Mortal Kombat, Banjo Kazooie, Super Smash Bros, Angry Birds, Papo & Yo, or Diddy Kong Racing?

"But... but muh diversity though. But... but those games don't count".

Oh yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of "white grizzled males" that are so happy to be "represented" in video games, despite your 'merica centric stereotypical idea of who a gamer is, you know the obese virgin neck-beard loser in their moms basement or whatever.

 

[Riotguards]

all this talk about diversity yet there isn't one of you who are demanding diversity are willing to go and sort this problem by making games themselves

you're all pop culture critics which have very little to offer gaming

let developers make decent characters whom they like NOT characters who they hate and checks tickboxes for SJW's who will never play the game

 

[Sandjube]

I like both. I have a massive thing for gunslingers, so Mcgree looks awesome, and Zarya looks fairly neat, though after seeing an edit of her with blonde hair I wish she had had that.

 

[Zhukov]

all this talk about diversity yet there isn't one of you who are demanding diversity are willing to go and sort this problem by making games themselves

you're all pop culture critics which have very little to offer gaming

let developers make decent characters whom they like NOT characters who they hate and checks tickboxes for SJW's who will never play the game

So I take it you have never criticized any game on any front without first knuckling down to make a better game of your own?

Hmm, let's see...

Ohh, here we go [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.868545.21739432]. A post in which you complain about Fallout New Vegas, saying that is has a boringly empty map and dull characters.

So, where's the game you made with a map full of awesome stuff and lots of interesting characters? It sounds fun, can I play it? How much does it cost?

I mean, I'd hate to think you were just a pop culture critic with nothing to offer gaming.

PS. I cannot speak for my SJW brethren, but I am someone who likes to see a bit of diversity and I fully intend to play this game.

 

[inmunitas]

PS. I cannot speak for my SJW brethren, but I am someone who likes to see a bit of diversity and I fully intend to play this game.

Then why don't you just spend more money on the games that have what you like, instead of expecting everyone to cater to your specific tastes?

 

[Zhukov]

PS. I cannot speak for my SJW brethren, but I am someone who likes to see a bit of diversity and I fully intend to play this game.

Then why don't you just spend more money on the games that have what you like, instead of expecting everyone to cater to your specific tastes?

What makes you think that I don't?

Are you under the impression that I run around spending money on games that I don't like?

 

[Riotguards]

So I take it you have never criticized any game on any front without first knuckling down to make a better game of your own?

Hmm, let's see...

Ohh, here we go [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.868545.21739432]. A post in which you complain about Fallout New Vegas, saying that is has a boringly empty map and dull characters.

So, where's the game you made with a map full of awesome stuff and lots of interesting characters? It sounds fun, can I play it? How much does it cost?

I mean, I'd hate to think you were just a pop culture critic with nothing to offer gaming.

PS. I cannot speak for my SJW brethren, but I am someone who likes to see a bit of diversity and I fully intend to play this game.

completely different, i'm not demanding that fallout NV to be better by getting a better map, etc, etc nor am i arguing that fallout NV is a bad game because it has a stereotype diversity check box character to be put into it "for mah diversity"

criticizing and demanding changes are two COMPLETELY different things which if you think constructive feedback vs frivolous check box ticking characters then i really have nothing to say to you

 

[inmunitas]

PS. I cannot speak for my SJW brethren, but I am someone who likes to see a bit of diversity and I fully intend to play this game.

Then why don't you just spend more money on the games that have what you like, instead of expecting everyone to cater to your specific tastes?

What makes you think that I don't?

Are you under the impression that I run around spending money on games that I don't like?

Then why do "SJW" types get defensive when people criticize them for being shallow superficial morons? I am not defined as a person by my physical appearance, or gender. I have my own collection of thoughts, feels, experiences and memories, that's what makes me, me. To suggest otherwise is just insulting, as it would be to anyone. I do not need to be "represented" in a video game to be "included", which is the argument people (at least in the media) seem to be making.

 

[Zhukov]

PS. I cannot speak for my SJW brethren, but I am someone who likes to see a bit of diversity and I fully intend to play this game.

Then why don't you just spend more money on the games that have what you like, instead of expecting everyone to cater to your specific tastes?

What makes you think that I don't?

Are you under the impression that I run around spending money on games that I don't like?

Then why do "SJW" types get defensive when people criticize them for being shallow superficial morons?

I'm pretty sure most people get defensive if you call them shallow superficial morons.

Except those who get aggressive I suppose.

Can't say I see what that question had to do with the subject at hand.

completely different, i'm not demanding that fallout NV to be better by getting a better map, etc, etc nor am i arguing that fallout NV is a bad game because it has a stereotype diversity check box character to be put into it "for mah diversity"

criticizing and demanding changes are two COMPLETELY different things which if you think constructive feedback vs frivolous check box ticking characters then i really have nothing to say to you

Ah, yes. "It's different when I do it." Classic.

"I don't like your character designs" and "I think your map is empty and boring" are both criticisms. They both imply the possibility of improvement. They're both subjective of course, but so is all criticism.

You just describe one of them as "constructive criticism" and the other as "mah diversity". And for some reason one of them necessitates the critic making their own game before opening their mouths.

As rhetorical devices go, I've seen better.

 

[Phasmal]

I am not defined as a person by my physical appearance, or gender. I have my own collection of thoughts, feels, experiences and memories, that's what makes me, me. To suggest otherwise is just insulting, as it would be to anyone.

What on earth does that have to do with anything?
If gender and physical appearance don't matter, why do you have an issue with a wider range of it?

Surely that is nothing but positive.
And I'm waiting for proof Blizzard didn't actually want to make this character. They did this because they wanted to.

 

[Riotguards]

Ah, yes. "It's different when I do it." Classic.

"I don't like your character designs" and "I think your map is empty and boring" are both criticisms. They both imply the possibility of improvement. They're both subjective of course, but so is all criticism.

You just describe one of them as "constructive criticism" and the other as "mah diversity". And for some reason one of them necessitates the critic making their own game before opening their mouths.

As rhetorical devices go, I've seen better.

wtf are you even on? can't you read or do i have to spell it out again

demanding changes = bad

criticizing a subjective implementation = good

as much as i love your non sequitur arguments and while you lot are all arguing against "straight white males" i'm playing video games sometimes as a man, sometimes as a women (oh mah diversity) maybe its because i'm not super super SJW or something but i don't care about gender, just gameplay (like every video game should be)

 

[Riotguards]

What on earth does that have to do with anything?
If gender and physical appearance don't matter, why do you have an issue with a wider range of it?

Surely that is nothing but positive.
And I'm waiting for proof Blizzard didn't actually want to make this character. They did this because they wanted to.

because its means we have to have a tick box quality characters instead of characters made from love

 

[Phasmal]

What on earth does that have to do with anything?
If gender and physical appearance don't matter, why do you have an issue with a wider range of it?

Surely that is nothing but positive.
And I'm waiting for proof Blizzard didn't actually want to make this character. They did this because they wanted to.

because its means we have to have a tick box quality characters instead of characters made from love

Because the only characters that are made with love are the generic ones?
Okay, prove that.

I'd like to see you objectively measure the love that goes into making each character, and prove a lack of `love` on this one's behalf.

OR- equally, you could realise that a greater choice harms no one and that we all got a new character out of this and whining about it would be really dumb.

 

[inmunitas]

I am not defined as a person by my physical appearance, or gender. I have my own collection of thoughts, feels, experiences and memories, that's what makes me, me. To suggest otherwise is just insulting, as it would be to anyone.

What on earth does that have to do with anything?
If gender and physical appearance don't matter, why do you have an issue with a wider range of it?

Surely that is nothing but positive.

People don't have an issue with having a wider range of characters, the issue is that it's being portrayed by the media as some kind of obscure "requirement" to be met, and not meeting this "requirement" is something to be ashamed of.

 

[Phasmal]

I am not defined as a person by my physical appearance, or gender. I have my own collection of thoughts, feels, experiences and memories, that's what makes me, me. To suggest otherwise is just insulting, as it would be to anyone.

What on earth does that have to do with anything?
If gender and physical appearance don't matter, why do you have an issue with a wider range of it?

Surely that is nothing but positive.

People don't have an issue with having a wider range of characters, the issue is that it's being portrayed by the media as some kind of obscure "requirement" to be met, and not meeting this "requirement" is something to be ashamed of.

I dunno. The industry has been quite stagnant with characters in the past. It's not really something to be PROUD of either.
I can already see we're probably not going to see eye-to-eye on this issue, though. So I'll just enjoy this character for being something new and ignore the people who will inevitably never be pleased. Who are people that will always exist no matter what.

 

[Gengisgame]

PS. I cannot speak for my SJW brethren, but I am someone who likes to see a bit of diversity and I fully intend to play this game.

"I don't like your character designs" and "I think your map is empty and boring" are both criticisms. They both imply the possibility of improvement. They're both subjective of course, but so is all criticism.

You just describe one of them as "constructive criticism" and the other as "mah diversity". And for some reason one of them necessitates the critic making their own game before opening their mouths.

As rhetorical devices go, I've seen better.

I can see where your coming from, the idea that this is what people want, that would be fine but it's clear that for a good number of people that they only wanted this is some some sort protest against what others like, they themselves don't want this and don't actually care about the end design which in this case I consider a bare basic marine design.

 

[Zhukov]

Ah, yes. "It's different when I do it." Classic.

"I don't like your character designs" and "I think your map is empty and boring" are both criticisms. They both imply the possibility of improvement. They're both subjective of course, but so is all criticism.

You just describe one of them as "constructive criticism" and the other as "mah diversity". And for some reason one of them necessitates the critic making their own game before opening their mouths.

As rhetorical devices go, I've seen better.

wtf are you even on? can't you read or do i have to spell it out again

demanding changes = bad

criticizing a subjective implementation = good

Same thing. Just a matter of phrasing.

"The map in this game is boring and empty."

"I wish the map in this game had more interesting things in it."

"I demand the developers put more interesting things in their map!"

Exact same criticism. If the developers consider it groundless or not in their best interests to respond then they are free to deny or disregard it.

Tell me, if the developers of New Vegas were to release another game and say, "We heard some people considered our previous maps to be a bit thin in terms of content, so we devoted more resources to map design this time around, we hope you like it", would this be a bad thing? Would they be just checking boxes to satisfy the Map Content Pedants?

as much as i love your non sequitur arguments and while you lot are all arguing against "straight white males" i'm playing video games sometimes as a man, sometimes as a women (oh mah diversity) maybe its because i'm not super super SJW or something but i don't care about gender, just gameplay (like every video game should be)

Okay, so you're indifferent to gender and whatnot. A totally fair position to take.

If that's the case however, why do you care about "checkboxes"? After all, they pertain to matters you claim not to care about.

You: "I don't care how much sugar is in the tea, I can't taste it."
SJW: "Okay then, well I'd like two extra teaspoons of sugar."
You: "Stop demanding sweet tea! Let them make it however they like!

 

[inmunitas]

You: "I don't care how much sugar is in the tea, I can't taste it."
SJW: "Okay then, well I'd like two extra teaspoons of sugar."
You: "Stop demanding sweet tea! Let them make it however they like!

That's not what "SJWs" sound like though, it's more:

You: "I don't care how much sugar is in the tea, I can't taste it."
SJW: "Misogyny! White male cis manbaby you are going to have two extra teaspoons of sugar, and you are going to like it! If you do not do as we say, we are going to tell everyone your an awful person who hates women and is racist/transphobic/MRA/right-wing, we are going to dox you, and try get you fired from your job shitlord!"
You: "Stop demanding sweet tea! Let them make it however they like!