Blizzard and Games Workshop

[Plurralbles]

uh... no one cares about warhammer..

Otehr than taht inflammatory statement, I got nothing.

 

[Hiphophippo]

Supposedly Starcraft was originally supposed to be a Warhammer 40k game but games workshop backed out, leaving Blizzard with nothing. So Blizzard turned it around.

It would easily explain the similarities of Terrans to Space Marines and zerg to Tyranids. Maybe to a lesser extent Protoss and Eldar.

However, the games have completely different gameplay and lore, so despite the fact that SC started out as WH40k, I think Blizzard turned it around nicely into something original and fun.

I thought it started with Warcraft being a project started by GW. At least, that's what I originally heard.

The other way around actually. The Original Warcraft game was slated to be a warhammer rts game but Games Workshop pulled at the last minute leaving Blizzard with a mostly completed game. Change up a few names here and there and viola "Warcraft".

Regardless of the origins, the setting for Warcraft has gone far beyond it's roots.

 

[Hiphophippo]

uh... no one cares about warhammer..

Otehr than taht inflammatory statement, I got nothing.

I care about as far as being too poor to play the tabletop game. It's loads of fun.

 

[TheGreatCoolEnergy]

Dear OP, ever hear of TvTropes? You would get a blast out of that site.

 

[Soulgaunt]

Supposedly Starcraft was originally supposed to be a Warhammer 40k game but games workshop backed out, leaving Blizzard with nothing. So Blizzard turned it around.

It would easily explain the similarities of Terrans to Space Marines and zerg to Tyranids. Maybe to a lesser extent Protoss and Eldar.

However, the games have completely different gameplay and lore, so despite the fact that SC started out as WH40k, I think Blizzard turned it around nicely into something original and fun.

I thought it started with Warcraft being a project started by GW. At least, that's what I originally heard.

The other way around actually. The Original Warcraft game was slated to be a warhammer rts game but Games Workshop pulled at the last minute leaving Blizzard with a mostly completed game. Change up a few names here and there and viola "Warcraft".

Regardless of the origins, the setting for Warcraft has gone far beyond it's roots.

Well, thats what I intended to say, but thanks for making it more clear.

 

[ma55ter_fett]

This thread treads on an ancient battleground that has been the site of more flames wars than any other. Personally I think blizz simply took a cool idea from games workshop (who charge way the fuck to much for their products) and made it into an even better and more marketable product.

Who stole from who is irrelevant at the end of the day, what matters is which company has cashed in the most on their respective products.

Every different model in the table top games comes from a mold. The plastic themselves doesn't cost much but the molds can cost millions of dollars to produce the one mold for an army. If the stuff was cheaper they wouldn't turn a profit on it.

This isn't meant to be a flame war, I am not in it for that. I am just making a discussion over what I was thinking as I got back into Warhammer 40k. I am sure it has all been said before, but this is the escapist and I was hoping we could just talk about it without fanboys.

And I think it does matter. You sound like a corporate tool when you say money is all that matters in the end which I am sure GW makes a pretty penny with its games as well.

Ok, first time I've been called a tool but there is a first time for everything.

I actually like the dawn of war series far better than the starcraft one (so if you is calling me a fanboy yous is right feller =D) but I still hold to the fact that if games workshop missed out on makeing a game like starcraft back when it could have made them a load of cash then I certainly don't begrudge blizz their horded wealth.

Psst! You can get most every warhammer 40k book online on rapidshare in pdf format saves a playa a mint.

yea I did that^ cause I be a tool.

Cheers!

 

[Altorin]

they're not actionably similar, or else action would have been taken.

I think Games Workshop actually pondered bringing a suit, but decided not to.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Being a HUGE GW fan I glad to see that some people actually recognize that Warhammer and 40K came first. I don't know the details about how Warcraft and Starcraft came about but I do believe that the two main GW games were heavy influences on Blizzard's titles. You could possibly even argue that Diablo was influenced by the early Warhammer RPG. Now before anyone starts bashing me as some Blizzard hater I have to say that I am also a huge fan of Warcraft and Starcraft. Even though both games do seem to borrow heavily from the Warhammer's (I mean in Warcraft III, the gryphon riders even have a quote: "This warhammer cost me 40k") Blizzard did make their own games out of them. As it has been stated before the GW games are much darker and bleaker than their Blizzard counterparts, and Blizzard has given its games some difference from the Warhammers. I definately believe that even though Warcraft and Starcraft may have orignally been based heavily (very heavily) on WHF and 40K they have evolved into their own unique stories. Plus in the end both Warhammer and Warcraft mainly use old fantasy archtypes that have been around forever so neither of them are that original. I love them all no matter how sterotypical or similar they seem.

The orcs in both 40k and fantasy revolve around their central concept of WAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHH

Bein' a Warboss uv da Orks, oi 'av to korrect ya cuz it ain't WAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHH we be fightin' for, itz da WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHH! Notice da "!" on da end. Dat's very 'portant in da prenuzeation uv it.

P.S. Sorry about that, just couldn't help myself.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Yep, these similarities are nothing new, and many a flame war has been started because of them. Point is that while Blizzard may have drawn a lot (and I mean a lot) of inspiration from GW's games, they gave their own twist on the material they used and made it their own. Among other, much more lore-intensive things, the Eldar do not have to construct additional pylons, and there is not a Tauren army in Warhammer (though I would so play it if there was).

So in the end, Blizzard aren't hacks. But I will agree that the idjits attacking GW games for copying Blizzard material are gravely misinformed.

The Protoss Warp in their units, just like the Eldar.

And there is a Tauren army in warhammer, they're called the Beastmen.

 

[acosn]

oy vey people can be thick.

Let's clean up a few misconceptions:

1) We may never know the full story surrounding what culminated in WC1. Regardless, both GW and Blizzard are enormously successful, and the games you're playing now don't really look much of anything like they did 15-20 years ago, so why care?

2) Neither Blizzard nor GW actually came up with the ideas surrounding the design of SC and WH40K. Technecally the zerg, tyranids, space marines, and terrans are all derivative of previous Sci Fi works, but most prominently Starship Troopers. Hint: The book, not the movie.

3) Protoss, if nothing else, are just stock "They're more technologically advanced than we are!" aliens. Huge, streamlined ships don't really make one IP rip off another. And to be fair, lets go down the list and see how many differences there are, shall we?

4) The orcs presented in War Hammer are more or less orky. The orcs presented Warcraft are struggling between their demonic blood pact that they're trying to get out of, the rift between the idealist and the warmonger, and trying to return to their shamanstic roots. I think the biggest struggle for WH orcs is who's bigga.

5) Humans are like beige. Do you really want to try to draw differences between the two?

So what we're left with is nothing that's really a reasonable point to compare. Do we get mad at Blizzard for having green orcs? Do we get mad at Toyota for releasing a red car? No, we get mad when they crash into other cars.

If you want to throw stones for people copying other people trying to do it in the scifi / fantasy genres is just generally a bad place to do it- everyone's more or less ripping off everyone.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Okay, lets clear one thing up. The absolute original progenitor to both WH40K and SC, was the sci fi films of the 80's, which were in turn inspired by Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein. The Zerg are ripoffs of Tyranids are ripoffs of the Aliens are ripoffs of the Arachnids.

Space Hulk was basically Aliens in Tabletop form.

Aliens basically set the stage for dark War Science Fiction. Everything to come out of WH40K and SC has its roots in James Cameron's film.

And, redundantly adding, all fantasy settings ever were inspired by J.R.R Tolkien.

 

[Slaanax]

Yep, these similarities are nothing new, and many a flame war has been started because of them. Point is that while Blizzard may have drawn a lot (and I mean a lot) of inspiration from GW's games, they gave their own twist on the material they used and made it their own. Among other, much more lore-intensive things, the Eldar do not have to construct additional pylons, and there is not a Tauren army in Warhammer (though I would so play it if there was).

So in the end, Blizzard aren't hacks. But I will agree that the idjits attacking GW games for copying Blizzard material are gravely misinformed.

Beastmen kind of.

 

[Redfefnir]

Essentially, according to 'sources', Games Workshop and Blizzard were working on a Fantasy strategy game, this was Warhammer. Games Workshop apparently went "This isn't a good idea." and pulled out, Blizzard, who had completed most of the game. Went "Well tits.", They recycled those resources and used them to create Warcraft : Orcs and Humans.

I don't care what you think. Just remember how long it took Games Workshop to get into the video gaming business after Warcraft. I don't think it's because they didn't want too, I think it's because they knew they just missed out by pulling out their assets and name too early.

Frankly guys. We don't care anymore. Good Artists are original, great artists steal. Sadly, those words cannot be more truthful.

 

[Ursus Astrorum]

And there is a Tauren army in warhammer, they're called the Beastmen.

Beastmen kind of.

Also, there's a difference between minotaurs and anthropomorphic amerindian cows. A big difference. One's a bunch of marauding beasts with little-to-no grasp of the world apart from killing things and wandering labyrinths. The other are a race of mystic nomads with the ability to bend the very earth to their whim. And tauren look pretti-Err, Cooler. *ahem* Yes, cooler. That's what I was going to say. [sub][sub](Don't judge me)[/sub][/sub]

As for the Protoss, SH, I was just using that for humor. Hence, you know, the Pylon reference.

 

[Daedalus1942]

Honestly... I'm just tired of everything Blizzard has been doing lately. I don't care much for them as a game company at all anymore. The only reason I keep passing glances to what they're doing is because of Diablo III. Once that's out, I won't give a shit about them once again for another 8 or so years.

 

[Kollega]

Starcraft, blatant copy of Warhammer 40k. You have Humans (the Terran), Protoss (an alien race), and the Zerg (another alien race bent on consuming the universe). The Terran look like Space Marines. The Protoss look and act like Eldar and the Zerg basically are the Tyranids.

Space Marines act like Starship Troopers (from the book, that is), Tyranids act like Arachnids, and Eldar are Tolkien's elves IN SPAAAAAACE! That way, Starcraft is a ripoff of a ripoff. And just for the record, i have strong dislike for both Blizzard and Games Workshop.

By the way, allow me to introduce you. Tv Tropes, auronvi. auronvi, Tv Tropes. Have a fun week toghether.

 

[auronvi]

Welcome to the party. Your only late by about 2 decades.

Everything I can say on the subject has already been said by others, so I will not type it in order not to cause needless repetition. Sooooo... yeah... ... hmmm...

Here, enjoy this related comic strip:

Spoiler

I was 8 when starcraft came out and never heard of warhammer, sorry I didn't jump into the conversation then.

Funny comic tho. That's kinda what I feel... in a much less exaggerated way.

Off to this TVTropes that has been recommended to me twice already.

 

[Meemaimoh]

Does it matter? Blizzard never did anything original in their lives. What they did do was take existing things - IPs, game designs - and perfect them. Polish them until they glowed with a perfectly balanced, easily digestible sheen. Why not enjoy the games for what they are: fun?

 

[Georgie_Leech]

In 1991 Warcraft: Orcs and Humans comes out. The name, obvious take on Warhammer and the two most prominent races in the tabletop game were used, Humans and Orcs. 1995 the sequel comes out, Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness. The game did sell well and warranted a sequel and then their second rip off happened, Starcraft. Blatant copy of Warhammer 40k. You have Humans (the Terran), Protoss (an alien race), and the Zerg (another alien race bent on consuming the universe). The Terran look like Space Marines. The Protoss look and act like Eldar and the Zerg basically are the Tyranids.

What else are you going to have? A benevolent race that sprinkles daisies wherever they walk? When it comes to aliens, they pretty much have to be a super-advanced society or an all-consuming plague. Anything else would be boring.

Oh, and people confuse which came first because of popularity.