Blizzard and Games Workshop
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or at least till they make an expansion right.Daedalus1942 said:
i'm glad that GW seem to be widening their options. but dose it always have to be about the Space Marines, i mean what about chaos marines. on to the main point of this thread, i'm a fan of both games and the companies aside from playing WoW (don't ask long story) i like each companies games and i can spot the similarities and the differences, yet i don't feel that one rips off from the other, they are both original enough for people to tell them apart and enough alike for a fan of one series to play the other and not feel out of place playing it. i started out playing starcraft when my brother noticed how much i wanted to try it he game me his old laptop with the game when i was around 7, around 3 years ago i started warhammer 40k as a hobby and never once felt that GW ripped off blizzard or the other way around.Anoctris said:
I know I'm likely late to the party, but you do realize the irony of calling Blizzard hacks for copying Warhammer when Warhammer itself blatantly copies from multiple sources itself, right?
It's the circle of nerdome, where any concept remotely cool (And likely from the 80's if not earlier) is recycled time after time after time usually with a 'twist' to try and either hide how derivative the idea is or to try and make it unique to their own setting: The later being the case for both Starcraft and Warhammer.
Gaming itself hasn't had any truly original ideas in years, and even those are usually based off something else. Planescape: Torment for example, often argued as one of the highpoints of gaming as a story-telling medium, is based off the already existing D&D Planescape setting.
So the question isn't how derivative something is, but how well it pulls it off and adapts it to its own setting. And by those standards, both Starcraft and Warhammer alike are fantastic examples of their genres.
It's the circle of nerdome, where any concept remotely cool (And likely from the 80's if not earlier) is recycled time after time after time usually with a 'twist' to try and either hide how derivative the idea is or to try and make it unique to their own setting: The later being the case for both Starcraft and Warhammer.
Gaming itself hasn't had any truly original ideas in years, and even those are usually based off something else. Planescape: Torment for example, often argued as one of the highpoints of gaming as a story-telling medium, is based off the already existing D&D Planescape setting.
So the question isn't how derivative something is, but how well it pulls it off and adapts it to its own setting. And by those standards, both Starcraft and Warhammer alike are fantastic examples of their genres.
I'd call Warhammer derivative instead of "a ripoff". StarCraft, however, is so similar to Warhammer 40k in so many ways it's almost hard not to call it an incredibly blatant ripoff. Zerg are more similar to Tyranids then Coca-Cola is to Pepsi Cola. Protoss should be named fugly Eldar, and Terrans seem to be the only ones that aren't just completely stolen.
However, Warcraft doesn't seem to take as much from Warhammer Fantasy as 40k does with Starcraft. In fact, I'd say calling Warcraft a ripoff of Fantasy is a strech. There are so many armies in Warhammer that don't appear in Warcraft, like the Chaos armies, demons, the humans are pretty different, Orks/Orcs are quite different, High Elves and Dark elves are in Warcraft but they're only in the lore and the idea of High elves and Dark elves are anything but original.
It only gets on my case when someone says something stupid like "amg! dis iz gay cuz da warhammer online copyz wow!" when it's been made clear countless times the Warhammer universe was created before the Warcraft one was even conceived.
However, Warcraft doesn't seem to take as much from Warhammer Fantasy as 40k does with Starcraft. In fact, I'd say calling Warcraft a ripoff of Fantasy is a strech. There are so many armies in Warhammer that don't appear in Warcraft, like the Chaos armies, demons, the humans are pretty different, Orks/Orcs are quite different, High Elves and Dark elves are in Warcraft but they're only in the lore and the idea of High elves and Dark elves are anything but original.
It only gets on my case when someone says something stupid like "amg! dis iz gay cuz da warhammer online copyz wow!" when it's been made clear countless times the Warhammer universe was created before the Warcraft one was even conceived.
You guys do realize that if you look back further you can find everything GW did in older films and books right.
Every idea has been done.
It has been done a thousand fucking times.
I'm sure any of you who have grandparents who are into Science fiction would look at GW and call them stupid fucking hacks.
The idea of a space Marine goes back to silent god damn films.
Insect swarm? How about the movie THEY! where giant ants attack?
ANYTHING from the none 40k universe can be seen as a rip off of the THOUSANDS of mythological tails.
EVERY cow man is a god damn Minotaur rip off. Orcs, trolls, goblins, Dwarves, gnomes.
All that shit? Written about over a thousand god damn years ago.
Highly advanced alien race like the eldar or protoss? War of the fucking worlds people.
Everyone has ripped off someone.
Fucking, drop it you fanboys.
GW didn't do it first. Every idea they have ever had has been done. it has been done a hundred thousand times, and they probably took as much as they could from them.
God damn.
Every idea has been done.
It has been done a thousand fucking times.
I'm sure any of you who have grandparents who are into Science fiction would look at GW and call them stupid fucking hacks.
The idea of a space Marine goes back to silent god damn films.
Insect swarm? How about the movie THEY! where giant ants attack?
ANYTHING from the none 40k universe can be seen as a rip off of the THOUSANDS of mythological tails.
EVERY cow man is a god damn Minotaur rip off. Orcs, trolls, goblins, Dwarves, gnomes.
All that shit? Written about over a thousand god damn years ago.
Highly advanced alien race like the eldar or protoss? War of the fucking worlds people.
Everyone has ripped off someone.
Fucking, drop it you fanboys.
GW didn't do it first. Every idea they have ever had has been done. it has been done a hundred thousand times, and they probably took as much as they could from them.
God damn.
I agree 100%Ursus Astrorum said:
Blizz borrowed a lot form GW, but that does not stop blizzard's games from being different enough that you can consider them their own games.
I wish we would not talk about this though. Like I said, blizz's games are their own thing. Warhammer just came first. End of story. Arguing about it is pointless. Why can't we spend our time either constructing additional pylons or dying for the emperor?
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blizz has never been that good at being original, well the biggest point Ill give them is for making orcs something besides a monstrous race but almost all blizz's plots are copied from their other games, war 3 copied starcraft and now sc2 is copying war 3 and so on and so forth, sure they all have their own changes too it but the essence has been the same, they tell bad plots intricately, its like the metal gear games
I was going to say something but then I saw the date that the thread started and I'll just say this. We should all give credit to Starship troopers, enough said.
I don't think the Warhammer/Warcraft comparison is fair, as there are plenty of J.R.R.Tolkien-inspired books, movies, games, and so on. 40k/StarCraft I can see a little easier, though I think StarCraft's Zerg look a lot more like the swarming insectoids from Starship Troopers (which was published in the 1950's - by comparison, the Tyranids were introduced to 40k some time in 1990, I believe).
While one can draw the connection between Eldar and Protoss, you have to remember that there really was only one direction they could go after they included humans and mindless insectoids, which was the intelligent aliens with futuristic technology (the UFO's people tend to freak out at).
Since you get to know both of these intelligent technologically-advanced aliens on a personal level when you use them either on the tabletop or in a video game, they need to have character flaws, and arrogance/infighting fits the bill perfectly.
Blizzard deserves immense credit for how well-executed their games are - even if you don't like WoW or Starcraft II, their older games are classics. And yes, I am a huge fanboy, thanks for noticing.
While one can draw the connection between Eldar and Protoss, you have to remember that there really was only one direction they could go after they included humans and mindless insectoids, which was the intelligent aliens with futuristic technology (the UFO's people tend to freak out at).
Since you get to know both of these intelligent technologically-advanced aliens on a personal level when you use them either on the tabletop or in a video game, they need to have character flaws, and arrogance/infighting fits the bill perfectly.
Blizzard deserves immense credit for how well-executed their games are - even if you don't like WoW or Starcraft II, their older games are classics. And yes, I am a huge fanboy, thanks for noticing.
I'm not following your logic. Planescape is the setting, not the inspiration. That's like saying Warcraft is a rip off of Azeroth.The Madman said:
Planescape as a D&D setting however predates the game, Azeroth does not. That Planescape: Torment was a game already building on established ideas and concepts is all I'm saying, ideas and concept which themselves are no doubt riff off other setting from both book and movie.Hiphophippo said:
Doesn't make the game itself any less fantastic though, just pointing out that in gaming there are very, very few genuinely original ideas as far as story and setting are concerned.
This is pretty much dead on, it's not just Blizzard either. Every story has been done before to some degree, we've had thousands of years to tell stories and it's very difficult to come up with something new that isn't completely incomprehensible. Even the best writers nowadays play with old stories in new settings a la Grim Fandango playing around with the afterlife; or just focussing on telling the old story in a better, slightly different way.Meemaimoh said:
So then, DnD online rips off Ebberon? The point I'm making, is that while I agree that there are few original ideas, a game cannot be a rip off of it's own setting.The Madman said:
Planescape remains my favorite campaign setting, for what it's worth. I'd love to see a newer edition of it.
I wasn't calling it a ripoff at all, where'd you get that impression? Just that it was based on a pre-existing setting not unique to video games.Hiphophippo said:
And I'd also love a reboot of the setting.
Hm lets see how many "Rip Offs" we can name in 60 seconds:
Splinter Cell is the Bourne Series
CoD is BF
BF is MoH
Inception is Paprika
Inception is an episode of Scrooge McDuck
Avatar is Dances With Wolves
Avatar is Disney's Pocahontas
Ghost's of Girlfriend's Past is A Christmas Carol
I could just go on but the list would be infinite.
OT: Does it really matter whether or not they are pretty much the same? I have played enough games that are pretty much rip offs of other games. There are so many "rip-offs" of so many different things.
Splinter Cell is the Bourne Series
CoD is BF
BF is MoH
Inception is Paprika
Inception is an episode of Scrooge McDuck
Avatar is Dances With Wolves
Avatar is Disney's Pocahontas
Ghost's of Girlfriend's Past is A Christmas Carol
I could just go on but the list would be infinite.
OT: Does it really matter whether or not they are pretty much the same? I have played enough games that are pretty much rip offs of other games. There are so many "rip-offs" of so many different things.