Blizzard Banning Single Player Cheaters?

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Mar 9, 2010
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sosolidshoe said:
I would usually agree with what you said but you have to see it from Blizzard's perspective here. They see people using third party cheats or mods that are allowing people to gain in game achievements which, supposedly, affects your prestige in multiplayer. The people who use these mods and hacks will gain achievements they don't deserve and are 'ruining' the game.

Now, I use ruining loosely there because it only makes them seem better than they are and I assume has an affect on a leader board (I don't know, I don't play Starcraft).

But in principle, you're right. Big companies shouldn't be allowed to mess with people's games and ban them because they want to add to it. However, when it affects the multiplayer then it should be punished. The best way to get around all this is to keep single player and multiplayer separate completely.
 

blankedboy

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If it's affecting stats and achievements, then yeah, inbuilt cheats only, pplz.

What's so wrong about this? They're stopping people cheating the system.
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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I'm unsure about how I actually feel about this.. on the one hand, blizzard already offers cheats for single player. And a powerful world creator which can give you any kind of gameplay experience you want..

So the only reason I can think to hack the game is to boost achievements, which at first glance seems odd, but I cheated in one of my 360 games to get achievements for it (In my defense, it wasn't as easy as just putting in the code and bing 1000 gamerscore, it took me a solid week while cheating to get them all).. so it'd be hard for me to be critical against these people..

On the other hand, I doubt I would hack a 360 game to get achievements.. I only utilize cheats that are in the game, and the bugs sometimes associated with them. My Dragon Age Origin achievements show that I did the level up glitch at some early point (in actuality I never used that character to beat the game, but you wouldn't know it to look at it), and I used a level up glitch for the specific purpose of getting achievements in Fallout 3 the day before I had to return it to blockbuster (which also is hilariously blatantly obvious cheating in my achievement list)..

So yeah, i have a history with cheating to get achievements.. But I think the crux of the matter is.. if the developers patched those glitches out of the game, I wouldn't get butt hurt... I think if blizzard had made glitches that allowed for easy achievements, I'd probably use them... but if they patched them out I'd say "oh well, that was fun while it lasted" and work for them legitimately.

So I think that purposefully creating glitches in the game to make achievements easier to get and then getting butthurt when blizzard decides that they want to "patch them out" (It's not what they're doing, I get that, but it's what they SHOULD want to do, if it were possible), I think that's sort of silly.

Banning is the wrong move. Wiping achievements, that I can understand, suspending from multiplayer games, that I can understand. Something to say "We don't like you doing this, we caught you doing this, here's a slap on the wrist".. Make it a painful slap, but just make it a slap. Banning people from playing a single player game is a HORRIBLE precedent.
 

ThePirateMan

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Jul 15, 2009
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Banning is a bit too harsh, but otherwise I don't really see much of a problem.

It's not really a game for mods outside of the custom games anyway and the singleplayer allready has built in cheats.
 

deth2munkies

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I have 0 sympathy for idiots that cheat in single player with 3rd party programs. There's no bloody reason for it, the game is rather simple on easier settings, has cheat codes built in that do everything a trainer would, and has no fucking point other than to make it less fun.
 

Charli

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Nov 23, 2008
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Nope I agree with them, if you intend to lie about your E-Penor, we will castrate it.

Oooh yes.

:D
 

Acidwell

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Jun 13, 2009
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What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement and a licence so just because you bought the game doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want
 

Nevyrmoore

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Acidwell said:
What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement
Actually, considering the terms of use is considered a contract, and you can only see said contract when you have already bought the product, it doesn't hold up in court. In other words, everything in the EULA is a load of bollocks until they find a way to show it to you before you buy the game.
 

Lucane

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sosolidshoe said:
HellbirdIV said:
Even cheating in single-player using 3rd party methods rather than the usual built-in codes is still using 3rd party software to hack, modify and abuse the game. Wether used in multiplayer or not, I can imagine Blizzard might take issue with people screwing with their magnum opus.
Huh, used to be that when you bought a game, you owned that game and could enjoy it's content in whatever manner you saw fit. Now apparently you're somehow insulting the developer's artistic sensibilities if you cheat or mod the single-player aspects of the game, and they can take away your right to use a product which you legally purchased.

I'm sorry, but to me that seems a lot like bullshit. There is a clearly defined rationale behind banning people who cheat in multiplayer - they are giving themselves and unfair advantage in a competitive environment. That doesn't apply to single-player, even achievements for actions completed within single-player. When servers and matchmaking are provided by the developer, the developer has the right to enforce it's own rules on players who choose to engage in the multiplayer aspect of the game. However, the idea that because the developer requires an arbitrary connection to a server in order to play the single-player game, they should also be able to prevent people from playing that game? Nope.

Just another reason to pirate games, well done Blizzard, you've leapt willingly on to the bandwagon that's ruining your own industry.
My guess is when you click on the (I accept the rules and terms of this agreement) from installation or when you 1st go online with Starcraft II (I assume they one in either and/or both of those points) they cover 3rd party tools being used in anyway wiht thier product viods any rights you have of full-ownership,now if you wanna use 3rd party tools you can just not online as per the agreement(s) you'd have to click(sign).
 

NezumiiroKitsune

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If the only reason for these mods is to bypass the security that prevents single player games where cheats are used to affect the gamer score and online achievements, I agree with Blizzards decision to block these people. Especially since Microsoft are in talks with games retailers to make the gamerscore and achievements mean something, similarly with Playstation's trophies. Abusing the game to cheat ANY online aspect unless, like in DoW, you are specifically given the option TO allow cheats, is inherently unethical, and damaging to the developers and the unfair to players who put the effort in. Or otherwise chastise them, removing the ill gotten achievements or suspension. I support their decision to take action against them at least.

If they start getting zealous about mods that don't affect any online factors, then that I'd contest, it's up to the player what they do with game (with the exception of decompiling, reverse engineering etc...).
 

Lucane

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Nevyrmoore said:
Acidwell said:
What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement
Actually, considering the terms of use is considered a contract, and you can only see said contract when you have already bought the product, it doesn't hold up in court. In other words, everything in the EULA is a load of bollocks until they find a way to show it to you before you buy the game.
Maybe they have copies of them on thier or some website somewhere or another.
 

frago roc

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using trainers is a violation of the EULA, who's to tell that a cheat that modifies game code couldn't easily do so for multiplayer.
 

Nevyrmoore

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Lucane said:
Nevyrmoore said:
Acidwell said:
What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement
Actually, considering the terms of use is considered a contract, and you can only see said contract when you have already bought the product, it doesn't hold up in court. In other words, everything in the EULA is a load of bollocks until they find a way to show it to you before you buy the game.
Maybe they have copies of them on thier or some website somewhere or another.
That still isn't acceptable. If you're going to buy a product that has a contract, the person selling you the item needs to provide the contract at the point of sale. If they don't do that, the contract is null and void.

*EDIT* In other words, it's like buying a phone on contract, but the company offering the phone doesn't tell you that you only get 500 free minutes until after you've gone over that.
 

Rednog

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Garak73 said:
Altorin said:
I'm unsure about how I actually feel about this.. on the one hand, blizzard already offers cheats for single player. And a powerful world creator which can give you any kind of gameplay experience you want..

So the only reason I can think to hack the game is to boost achievements, which at first glance seems odd, but I cheated in one of my 360 games to get achievements for it (In my defense, it wasn't as easy as just putting in the code and bing 1000 gamerscore, it took me a solid week while cheating to get them all).. so it'd be hard for me to be critical against these people..

On the other hand, I doubt I would hack a 360 game to get achievements.. I only utilize cheats that are in the game, and the bugs sometimes associated with them. My Dragon Age Origin achievements show that I did the level up glitch at some early point (in actuality I never used that character to beat the game, but you wouldn't know it to look at it), and I used a level up glitch for the specific purpose of getting achievements in Fallout 3 the day before I had to return it to blockbuster (which also is hilariously blatantly obvious cheating in my achievement list)..

So yeah, i have a history with cheating to get achievements.. But I think the crux of the matter is.. if the developers patched those glitches out of the game, I wouldn't get butt hurt... I think if blizzard had made glitches that allowed for easy achievements, I'd probably use them... but if they patched them out I'd say "oh well, that was fun while it lasted" and work for them legitimately.

So I think that purposefully creating glitches in the game to make achievements easier to get and then getting butthurt when blizzard decides that they want to "patch them out" (It's not what they're doing, I get that, but it's what they SHOULD want to do, if it were possible), I think that's sort of silly.

Banning is the wrong move. Wiping achievements, that I can understand, suspending from multiplayer games, that I can understand. Something to say "We don't like you doing this, we caught you doing this, here's a slap on the wrist".. Make it a painful slap, but just make it a slap. Banning people from playing a single player game is a HORRIBLE precedent.
Here's something to consider. Alot of people don't care about achievements and as such don't want their freedoms limited because Blizzard decided to include them. Maybe Blizzard added the achievements to justify this kind of control over that player.

That the game has built in cheats is irrelevant. Some NES games had built in cheats but that didn't invalidate the legality of the Game Genie.
I'm sorry but you're completely ignoring the intention behind the players who were banned. Blizzard in no way is limiting anyone's enjoyment of the game. You can't ignore that the game has in game cheats either because they literally give the player every power that the third party hack can give. So then are you just arguing that the players should be able to choose one type of cheat over the other despite them doing the exact same in game effect? That makes no damn sense. The players are using the hack to gain the multiplayer benefits of portraits/ symbols and whatnot. They aren't just using it to have what ever fun they want in the single player.
Blizzard isn't limiting a single damn thing for anyone in the single player game, they are just protecting the credentials of their online multiplayer which is the one and only reason these hacks exist. Any other reason you try to claim is a bunch of bs.
If you want to argue about developers limiting single games in terms of cheats etc that's a different story, but in terms of blizz they aren't limiting jack.
 

Acidwell

Beware of Snow Giraffes
Jun 13, 2009
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Garak73 said:
Acidwell said:
What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement and a licence so just because you bought the game doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want
Already been mentioned and it is irrelevant since a EULA is not legally binding and since the precedent for single players cheating was set long ago in the case of Nintendo vs Galoob. If this went to court, Blizzard would likely loose.
I'd agree in most cases but since the use of third party cheats in this case effects how other people view you in multiplayer therefore affecting someones decisions it would be a lot less of a close run courtcase than others
 

NezumiiroKitsune

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Garak73 said:
NezumiiroKitsune said:
If the only reason for these mods is to bypass the security that prevents single player games where cheats are used to affect the gamer score and online achievements, I agree with Blizzards decision to block these people. Especially since Microsoft are in talks with games retailers to make the gamerscore and achievements mean something, similarly with Playstation's trophies. Abusing the game to cheat ANY online aspect unless, like in DoW, you are specifically given the option TO allow cheats, is inherently unethical, and damaging to the developers and the unfair to players who put the effort in. Or otherwise chastise them, removing the ill gotten achievements or suspension. I support their decision to take action against them at least.

If they start getting zealous about mods that don't affect any online factors, then that I'd contest, it's up to the player what they do with game (with the exception of decompiling, reverse engineering etc...).
The achievement only affect online factors because Blizzard designed it that way. Think about it.

I must point out that Oblivion had built in cheats (PC version only I think) but most people who play the PC version mod the shit out of it. How should Bethesda react?
Bethesda released the Elder Scrolls Creation Kit with every copy of the game, if they didn't intend that to be used to mod the game, I don't know what they were thinking.
 

Lucane

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Nevyrmoore said:
Lucane said:
Maybe they have copies of them on thier or some website somewhere or another.
That still isn't acceptable. If you're going to buy a product that has a contract, the person selling you the item needs to provide the contract at the point of sale. If they don't do that, the contract is null and void.

*EDIT* In other words, it's like buying a phone on contract, but the company offering the phone doesn't tell you that you only get 500 free minutes until after you've gone over that.
Well actually it's fine for what your actually buying.Your buying the box(disc,manual,case,etc)like buying a pre-paid phone (case,phone,charger,etc)you bought a phsyical object not the service it provides(which should have what is required to operate/access it on the packaging like internet access and/or a contact phone number.) It's not there fault Stores don't honor full/partial returns on certin opened products like PC games/music discs/DVDs/Blu-rays. Since the data could have been damaged/tampered with/copied with no way to verify if any copies of a specific disc exsist in a way that could be tracked properly without being illegal.
 

Acidwell

Beware of Snow Giraffes
Jun 13, 2009
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Garak73 said:
Acidwell said:
Garak73 said:
Acidwell said:
What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement and a licence so just because you bought the game doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want
Already been mentioned and it is irrelevant since a EULA is not legally binding and since the precedent for single players cheating was set long ago in the case of Nintendo vs Galoob. If this went to court, Blizzard would likely loose.
I'd agree in most cases but since the use of third party cheats in this case effects how other people view you in multiplayer therefore affecting someones decisions it would be a lot less of a close run courtcase than others
The player didn't design it that way, Blizzard did.
In that case blizzard cant ban wow accounts when people use trainers?
 

Atmos Duality

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Garak73 said:
Everyone says that Starcraft I is easy, I couldn't beat it without cheats and I since I didn't care to cheat, I just shelved it.
That's Starcraft 1. I agree that it was quite a bit more difficult than most people made it out to be. Most of the people I met who complained about the campaign being too easy were already competent in multiplayer or micro-wizards.

I love the strategy genre, and I had my ass sorely kicked in SC1.

Starcraft 2's Easy Mode, however, stacks the deck so heavily in favor of the player that anyone who is complaining about losing there lacks the will to improve. I'm sorry, but in order for a game to have gameplay, it must present some sort of conflict that the player tries to overcome through some application of skill (barring games of chance, but there are people who even have those figured out).

Then again, you claim that accessibility isn't even a factor in the next quote.

It doesn't matter if it's easy for you, it doesn't matter if how easy it is for anyone because the issue here is that Blizzard has now decided that they can dictate how you play in single player mode. I think that's going too far, you don't?
There are two issues at stake here...
1) Blizzard dictating how you must play Single Player (there are logic/rules in a game?)
2) Blizzard discouraging users from hacking the game because they must.

1) Yes, they have the right to dictate how you should play the game. The very definition of gameplay implies that some sort of rules/logic exists. You define what logic you want to compete on, and then you play. By eliminating those rules, you are invalidating the point of the gameplay.
For players who just want to experience the story: there's Easy Mode for that!

If you want to play a variant game, you have access to a plethora of user-created maps online, or could create one yourself. Hell, they gave you access to modding the game via the map editor, but that still wasn't good enough? Wasn't that the point of hacking Single Player to begin with?

2) Blizzard cannot be partial to players about these sorts of mods/hacks because they (Blizzard), in legalese, established that there should be ABSOLUTELY ZERO gameplay alterations to the core game code by the end-user.
If they fail to enforce that, it will only mean trouble for them if they do have to drop the legal hammer somewhere down the line (due to the establishment of a Double Standard, which would contradict the terms they established in the contract/EULA).
And yes, that EULA is enforceable by law.

So, for one thing, they have legal obligations to meet and enforce.
The next part is the new Blizzard Policy (which is a set of guidelines that are relatively independent of the law).

I think Blizzard changed their policy after putting up with player-created bullshit in Diablo 2 for years. Lets look at Maphack, for example.
Maphack was a relatively harmless utility that enabled a player to skip most of the game content entirely by eliminating the random map element. One could argue that this practice, by itself, is harmless, and they would be correct.

However, it was the exploits that were inspired or even outright based on Maphack's network code exploits that lead to all sorts of problems from undermining the item-economy to eliminating the point of playing the game itself. (I had prepared a list of events that can be attributed directly to the hacker-mod community in D2, but for the sake of brevity I omitted it.)

Finally, and most importantly, it's their game. They set the rules in their game. They own the code.
This is how it has always been, no matter what sentiment we may have for the past.
You don't have to like it, but that's that how it is.

As long as Blizzard does not put any unconscionable terms in the EULA (and it doesn't violate the law), they can do as they see fit with their software.

I personally find it regrettable that we have passed the age where users were allowed (or outright encouraged) to mod their game without reprisal.
But because people abused their privileges in the past, we have to put up with these new restrictions. It isn't unethical, nor unreasonable, to expect Blizzard to enforce this decision. They don't want to encourage hackers, and they don't want other users to encourage hackers by using their hacks.