Blizzard Banning Single Player Cheaters?

[Lightslei]

Isn't there a TOS/EULA you have to agree to when you start the game? I'm sure if someone posted a copy of it here, I could probably find a section on "DO NOT CHEAT" equivalent.

 

[BeanerBurrito]

Cheating is cheating. Whether it's cheating in online multiplayer (an offense punishable by death in my opinion) or just cheating to artificially boost your gamerscore, it's still cheating. There's a reason the official SC2 cheat codes automatically disable achievements when you use them.

Cheating is cheating.

Single player cheating is acceptable to most people because it affect no one else. The only reason it affects anyone in this case is because Blizzard designed their game that way.

Cheating is cheating. Whether it's cheating in online multiplayer (an offense punishable by death in my opinion) or just cheating to artificially boost your gamerscore, it's still cheating. There's a reason the official SC2 cheat codes automatically disable achievements when you use them.

Cheating is cheating.

Do you drop a guy out of school because he cheated at a test? No, that's probably too soft. You throw him off a cliff, right?

So what I'm really getting from this is that you guys don't understand what happened, and so you're going to keep arguing with completely incidental facts either way. Great, glad to know I don't have to pay any attention to this

Seriously, folks. How can you say they don't care about achievements when they were cheating to get the achievements?

Not to mention Blizzard has talked in the past about giving you a "Blizzard score" for your achievements through all of your games and perhaps having it actually mean something, so... yeah, the achievements actually matter. And you know what? This doesn't even prevent people from playing the game offline. They can still play the game. It just prevents them from logging on to... earn achievements and play multiplayer!

Which you're arguing they didn't want to do anyway. Herp derp.

Can we actually have some understanding of the facts before we whine about things, people?

if you got thrown out of a movie theater because you ate popcorn at your house an hour before the movie, instead of buying from the movie theater, wouldn't you be pissed?


the issue isn't that they cheated, the issue is that blizzard banned them from the multiplayer experience, because they cheated in the single player experience

cheating to get achievements IS a victimless crime, no one is hurt except possibly the person who cheated themselves out of a gratifying experience
achievements are there for personal pleasure, and this is on top of the fact that it doesn't matter if they got the achievements or not



blizzard set a precedent that they will ban you for cheating in their game, which you own, they took away the product you bought because you decided to use that product in a way you should be able to, because you OWN it


i'll say it again, battle.net is a service, blizzard can freely terminate at any time for any reason

the single player is a product that you bought, it is yours to do with as you wish




i don't get why people think this is ok because it's a video game, if any other company in any other field tried to take away the product you paid for because you used it in a way THEY didn't like, there would be outrage and that company would be taken to court

internet piracy seems to have given companies free reign to do anything they wish with the backing of the legal system because they use the excuse that "people will steel r jerbs"


imagine if a fast food restaurant took away your burger because you put mustard on it instead of ketchup, with the excuse "if people were to ever find out mustard tastes good they would go out of business"

 

[John Funk]

And if we accept that Blizzard does not want this to happen, the solution "wipe their achievements/icons" really won't fly, because what's to stop them from cheating to get it again?

Simple: block them from gaining achievements. Not nuking their entire copy and making them have to pay another $60 just to play the single player again. I mean, not even VAC is that bad.

Are they banning single player cheaters from multiplayer or straight up preventing them from playing the game period? If it's the former it's not a big deal.

Various, but some cases it appears to be the latter.

They can still play the single-player offline, in "Guest" mode. They just won't be able to play the multiplayer or earn achievements.

 

[Spencer Petersen]

You don't need to be connected to Blizzard servers to play single player, however you do in order to receive achievements. There are several in game cheats which allow you to complete missions with ease, but enabling them disables achievements. So really, these hackers are achievement whores who are hacking the game to gain prestige in multiplayer, so yeah, ban them. If you wanna cheat, no achievements for u!

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

i'll say it again, battle.net is a service, blizzard can freely terminate at any time for any reason

the single player is a product that you bought, it is yours to do with as you wish

And Blizzard banned them from the service, not the product. I don't see the problem.

See my previous statement about Blizzard intending to eventually make your overall Blizzard-score worth something.

I am saying that Blizzard designed this game in a way that prevents people from doing something that has been acceptable until now (Single player cheating).

No, there are still cheats involved in the game. What these players were doing was hacking the single player to earn things specifically designed for multiplayer prestige.

I am saying that Blizzard has designed this game to be dependent on Bnet and by kicking players off of Bnet takes away some value. I consider that theft considering that Blizzard created the problem in the first place.

Why don't they either:

1) Wipe the achievements out for affected players.

2) Patch the game to allow for seperate single and multiplayer profiles. Age of Empires III did this and it worked out just fine.

Great, you consider it theft. I don't.

1.) Is this possible? Have you designed SC2? Do you know if it is technologically possible to do this for a user and prevent them from ever gaining achievements again, without something that would be hackable by a third-party program? I don't. Do you know if it is worth spending the valuable time of the Bnet team on to deal with a few problem players instead of, you know, adding things that the rest of us will use like cross region play? No, you probably don't.

2.) And yet, this... completely negates what they were trying to do in the first place.

If you are playing the game in offline mode, you can cheat and hack all you want. Is this so hard to understand? Really, what's so difficult about this idea? Play it offline, hack to your heart's content. Blizzard hasn't removed a single goddamn thing here.

But if you are playing the game connected to Bnet, where you are earning things for the sole purpose of displaying them in multiplayer, and you hack the game to get those things, then frankly you deserve what's coming to you.

You're still making a horrible leap of logic here. Did they care about their multiplayer prestige or not? It's a yes or no question.

 

[Exort]

No, you throw him into detention for 30 days and force him to do a makeup test.

No, you get kick out of school and no other university is going to accept you again.
In other word, you get banned from school.

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

snip

Hm? Okay, now if you had actually read my posts, we could have some sort of a conversation.

Oh well, this thread went exactly the way it was supposed to, with apologetics flooding in and spouting all sorts of justifications for Blizzard, yet again. It just saddens me to be one of the few people who don't want the whole of gaming industry to drop as low as (or lower than) Blizzard did.

Anyways, gentlemen, I wash my hands off this madness.

lol apologetics? Really?

No, I haven't read all of the pages before because if they're anything like this page, I'm sure they're dotted with spotty and inconsistent logic. I'm perfectly willing to have a conversation if you're willing to put your knee-jerk reactions aside and try to help me understand where you're coming from with the fallacies in your logic.

 

[Lightslei]

Isn't there a TOS/EULA you have to agree to when you start the game? I'm sure if someone posted a copy of it here, I could probably find a section on "DO NOT CHEAT" equivalent.

...and it wouldn't hold any legal power.

Except that if you do it, expect to get banned, and then don't *****. I honestly don't see why your whining unless your one of the people that cheated in the game. It holds the power to say you violated a generic simple contract, and thus you lost a privilege.

 

[Exort]

I agree with Blizzard. There's already a cheat code, it's called casual difficultly. I can't use my left arm right now for extended periods (It'll probably hurt after typing this, broken collarbone) but I could still do every mission on normal with little difficulty, even though I was using only my mouse and a brain with a mild concussion. Or, if they aren't in it for achievements, they could cheat in offline mode, as a guest. Otherwise they are either ignorant or in it for achievements.

They are true cheat code in the game however it would disable achievement earning. Just google them.

 

[Exort]

Blizzard just blink twice if Activision is hiding behind you.

I'm almost sure Actvision is not behide this one. "play fair" is always a core idea Blizzard holds since the fuonding of it, it is in their website.
Always a list of in game cheats
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/starcraft2/hints.html?tag=tabs%3Bcheats
Why would you use trainer if not for achievements.
Ok, some of you don't care about achievements, but you aren't the only people in this world. I actully do know people that care about them.

 

[Eldarion]

Add this to another reason why achievements are bullshit.

Its a damn single player game, and people who do cheat don't give a shit about achievements. They don't carry any weight or prestige in any game. No one gives a shit.

This is just ridiculous, and Blizzard is basically doing this because they can.

Its their damn game. They can do whatever the hell they want with it/to it so long as its not copying it and giving it away.

The EULA says otherwise, but those don't carry any credence at all since they're only shown during installation. After you bought the thing.

This is straight up bullshit. Fuck achievements.

Except, from what I understand, they were specifically cheating to get the achievements / profile icons. So, that kind of torpedoes your theory that they didn't care about it, because that was their entire goal in the first place. Pretty much any other cheat you can think of is already in the game, and it disables your achievements/icon earning.

Everyone saying "blar blar they didn't care about achievements" is arguing an uphill battle when it appears as if they were trying to get the prestigious achievements / profile icons in the first place.

And if we accept that Blizzard does not want this to happen, the solution "wipe their achievements/icons" really won't fly, because what's to stop them from cheating to get it again?

Thats not relevant to the matter at hand really. The fact is that blizzard is using the fact that cheating has some effect on the multiplayer aspect (LOL gamerscore/profile icons) to remove your freedom to play the single player however you want. They designed it this way themselves.

 

[Rednog]

I'm unsure about how I actually feel about this.. on the one hand, blizzard already offers cheats for single player. And a powerful world creator which can give you any kind of gameplay experience you want..

So the only reason I can think to hack the game is to boost achievements, which at first glance seems odd, but I cheated in one of my 360 games to get achievements for it (In my defense, it wasn't as easy as just putting in the code and bing 1000 gamerscore, it took me a solid week while cheating to get them all).. so it'd be hard for me to be critical against these people..

On the other hand, I doubt I would hack a 360 game to get achievements.. I only utilize cheats that are in the game, and the bugs sometimes associated with them. My Dragon Age Origin achievements show that I did the level up glitch at some early point (in actuality I never used that character to beat the game, but you wouldn't know it to look at it), and I used a level up glitch for the specific purpose of getting achievements in Fallout 3 the day before I had to return it to blockbuster (which also is hilariously blatantly obvious cheating in my achievement list)..

So yeah, i have a history with cheating to get achievements.. But I think the crux of the matter is.. if the developers patched those glitches out of the game, I wouldn't get butt hurt... I think if blizzard had made glitches that allowed for easy achievements, I'd probably use them... but if they patched them out I'd say "oh well, that was fun while it lasted" and work for them legitimately.

So I think that purposefully creating glitches in the game to make achievements easier to get and then getting butthurt when blizzard decides that they want to "patch them out" (It's not what they're doing, I get that, but it's what they SHOULD want to do, if it were possible), I think that's sort of silly.

Banning is the wrong move. Wiping achievements, that I can understand, suspending from multiplayer games, that I can understand. Something to say "We don't like you doing this, we caught you doing this, here's a slap on the wrist".. Make it a painful slap, but just make it a slap. Banning people from playing a single player game is a HORRIBLE precedent.

Here's something to consider. Alot of people don't care about achievements and as such don't want their freedoms limited because Blizzard decided to include them. Maybe Blizzard added the achievements to justify this kind of control over that player.

That the game has built in cheats is irrelevant. Some NES games had built in cheats but that didn't invalidate the legality of the Game Genie.

I'm sorry but you're completely ignoring the intention behind the players who were banned. Blizzard in no way is limiting anyone's enjoyment of the game. You can't ignore that the game has in game cheats either because they literally give the player every power that the third party hack can give. So then are you just arguing that the players should be able to choose one type of cheat over the other despite them doing the exact same in game effect? That makes no damn sense. The players are using the hack to gain the multiplayer benefits of portraits/ symbols and whatnot. They aren't just using it to have what ever fun they want in the single player.
Blizzard isn't limiting a single damn thing for anyone in the single player game, they are just protecting the credentials of their online multiplayer which is the one and only reason these hacks exist. Any other reason you try to claim is a bunch of bs.
If you want to argue about developers limiting single games in terms of cheats etc that's a different story, but in terms of blizz they aren't limiting jack.

How can you say that banning players is not a limit?

You get banned from multiplayer/battlenet you can continue playing the single player all you want even with a banned account since starcraft 2 doesn't require you to actually be online/logged in to play the single player game. As long as the key/cd is valid the game runs.

 

[John Funk]

Add this to another reason why achievements are bullshit.

Its a damn single player game, and people who do cheat don't give a shit about achievements. They don't carry any weight or prestige in any game. No one gives a shit.

This is just ridiculous, and Blizzard is basically doing this because they can.

Its their damn game. They can do whatever the hell they want with it/to it so long as its not copying it and giving it away.

The EULA says otherwise, but those don't carry any credence at all since they're only shown during installation. After you bought the thing.

This is straight up bullshit. Fuck achievements.

Except, from what I understand, they were specifically cheating to get the achievements / profile icons. So, that kind of torpedoes your theory that they didn't care about it, because that was their entire goal in the first place. Pretty much any other cheat you can think of is already in the game, and it disables your achievements/icon earning.

Everyone saying "blar blar they didn't care about achievements" is arguing an uphill battle when it appears as if they were trying to get the prestigious achievements / profile icons in the first place.

And if we accept that Blizzard does not want this to happen, the solution "wipe their achievements/icons" really won't fly, because what's to stop them from cheating to get it again?

Thats not relevant to the matter at hand really. The fact is that blizzard is using the fact that cheating has some effect on the multiplayer aspect (LOL gamerscore/profile icons) to remove your freedom to play the single player however you want. They designed it this way themselves.

But it doesn't. You can still play the single player however you want by using a Guest profile, which lets you play the game not logged in. They have absolutely not taken away ANY of the single-player stuff other than ... the achievements and stuff. Which affects multiplayer.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how this removes anyone's single-player freedoms at all, since there's still the Guest play offline option.

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

I don't care about achievements but if I wanted to use a trainer, I would be accused of using it to gain achievements. Of course, if Blizzard hadn't designed the single player achievement in a way that they ties into multiplayer prestige then I could use a trainer without being accused of that.

Play the game in Guest mode offline.

If it isn't possible to reset a score then Blizzard needs to hire better programmers.

Not just asking if it's possible to reset a score. I'm asking if it's possible to reset a score and have it stay reset in a way that can't simply be circumvented by the same third-party hacks you used to get it in the first place (not YOU you, of course). Rather, I'm asking if it's feasible to do so when your programmer/community support teams probably have better things to do with their time.

Well, what they were trying to do in the first place sucks I guess because it completely screws those who want to cheat (not authorized cheats, what's the point of authorized cheats) in SINGLE PLAYER mode.

Play the game in Guest mode offline.

Fine, if it wasn't designed to be so dependent on bnet. In offline mode, don't you have to play as "Guest" or something?

Yes, and you don't get achievements or rewards for it. Which according to you is no problem.

Does the game work like Steam does, where it connects itself to bnet by default?

No, you need to manually log in like you do to WoW. But on the side, there's the "play as Guest" option. Just click that instead of logging in.

I don't know and I don't care because the only people who know for sure are the players. I care that single player gaming is now being restricted by developers who think they should be able to control how you play.

The single player is in no way restricted, as they still have the ability to play the game offline.

This only restricts them from the multiplayer. Which Blizzard is in its right to restrict cheaters from anyway.

 

[Rednog]

Add this to another reason why achievements are bullshit.

Its a damn single player game, and people who do cheat don't give a shit about achievements. They don't carry any weight or prestige in any game. No one gives a shit.

This is just ridiculous, and Blizzard is basically doing this because they can.

Its their damn game. They can do whatever the hell they want with it/to it so long as its not copying it and giving it away.

The EULA says otherwise, but those don't carry any credence at all since they're only shown during installation. After you bought the thing.

This is straight up bullshit. Fuck achievements.

Except, from what I understand, they were specifically cheating to get the achievements / profile icons. So, that kind of torpedoes your theory that they didn't care about it, because that was their entire goal in the first place. Pretty much any other cheat you can think of is already in the game, and it disables your achievements/icon earning.

Everyone saying "blar blar they didn't care about achievements" is arguing an uphill battle when it appears as if they were trying to get the prestigious achievements / profile icons in the first place.

And if we accept that Blizzard does not want this to happen, the solution "wipe their achievements/icons" really won't fly, because what's to stop them from cheating to get it again?

Thats not relevant to the matter at hand really. The fact is that blizzard is using the fact that cheating has some effect on the multiplayer aspect (LOL gamerscore/profile icons) to remove your freedom to play the single player however you want. They designed it this way themselves.

But it doesn't. You can still play the single player however you want by using a Guest profile, which lets you play the game not logged in. They have absolutely not taken away ANY of the single-player stuff other than ... the achievements and stuff. Which affects multiplayer.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how this removes anyone's single-player freedoms at all, since there's still the Guest play offline option.

Speaking of the "Guest" option. Is there a reason why you can't just have a separate offline profile like most games have?

I'll tell you why, because Blizzard designed the game to be dependent on bnet so that you would want to play on bnet due to the offline version of the game being inferior.

There is absolutely no difference to the single player besides you being tagged as a guest if you are offline/banned vs you being online and having your name slapped at the top right of the damn starting screen.
There is absolutely nothing different about it at all, you can still play each level, save, etc.
If that little name at the top right convinces you that the offline version is inferior then you sir are insane.

 

[John Funk]

Add this to another reason why achievements are bullshit.

Its a damn single player game, and people who do cheat don't give a shit about achievements. They don't carry any weight or prestige in any game. No one gives a shit.

This is just ridiculous, and Blizzard is basically doing this because they can.

Its their damn game. They can do whatever the hell they want with it/to it so long as its not copying it and giving it away.

The EULA says otherwise, but those don't carry any credence at all since they're only shown during installation. After you bought the thing.

This is straight up bullshit. Fuck achievements.

Except, from what I understand, they were specifically cheating to get the achievements / profile icons. So, that kind of torpedoes your theory that they didn't care about it, because that was their entire goal in the first place. Pretty much any other cheat you can think of is already in the game, and it disables your achievements/icon earning.

Everyone saying "blar blar they didn't care about achievements" is arguing an uphill battle when it appears as if they were trying to get the prestigious achievements / profile icons in the first place.

And if we accept that Blizzard does not want this to happen, the solution "wipe their achievements/icons" really won't fly, because what's to stop them from cheating to get it again?

Thats not relevant to the matter at hand really. The fact is that blizzard is using the fact that cheating has some effect on the multiplayer aspect (LOL gamerscore/profile icons) to remove your freedom to play the single player however you want. They designed it this way themselves.

But it doesn't. You can still play the single player however you want by using a Guest profile, which lets you play the game not logged in. They have absolutely not taken away ANY of the single-player stuff other than ... the achievements and stuff. Which affects multiplayer.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how this removes anyone's single-player freedoms at all, since there's still the Guest play offline option.

Speaking of the "Guest" option. Is there a reason why you can't just have a separate offline profile like most games have?

I'll tell you why, because Blizzard designed the game to be dependent on bnet so that you would want to play on bnet due to the offline version of the game being inferior.

Yes, you want to play on bnet because the game is designed to be played on bnet. With achievements, friends lists, etc.

Why would you want profile icons, achievements, friends lists, if you aren't going to be online? That's all you get from an "offline profile."

If you buy a game from Steam, you can set it to play without actually logging into Steam. But you won't be able to talk to your friends on steam messenger, you won't be able to get steam achievements, while you aren't logged in. This is the exact same thing.

 

[Rednog]

I gotta go but let me just say this.

When SC2 came out Blizzard said that "You will want to play on BNET 2.0 because of it's features" or something similar.

Follow me so far.

So when people lose BNET access for cheating in SINGLE PLAYER everyone pretends that it's not a big loss to lose BNET access.

So which is it?

There is a difference between cheating in single player because you want to dick around in a single player game and have fun your own way. Hell I've been a fan of playing games completely wrong for a long time and many of my friends subscribe to the same logic. But in this case the people cheated in the SINGLE PLAYER with the goal of affecting the MULTIPLAYER. The single player is simply a vessle/step in which to cheat the multiplayer. It would be the same damn case if the players were able to hack their profiles directly to give themselves the achievements and the portraits. The easiest way to get the achievements/portraits was through the multiplayer. Not a single damn one of the cheaters got the hacks to play the single player because they wanted to play the single player game. And like I said before there is absolutely no way to argue this because the hacks do exactly the same thing that blizzard's cheats do. The only difference is that blizzard's cheats disable achievements/portraits. So why use the hack if your goal isn't cheating out the multiplayer?

 

[Exort]

I gotta go but let me just say this.

When SC2 came out Blizzard said that "You will want to play on BNET 2.0 because of it's features" or something similar.

Follow me so far.

So when people lose BNET access for cheating in SINGLE PLAYER everyone pretends that it's not a big loss to lose BNET access.

So which is it?

If you cheat with build in cheat code then you aren't banned. People are banned for using third party cheat to hack the achievement.

 

[tehweave]

I don't know, I haven't played starcraft 2 yet, but I hope they don't do this with world of warcraft. Addons are part of what make the game go from 'good' to 'awesome.'

 

[Eldarion]

Add this to another reason why achievements are bullshit.

Its a damn single player game, and people who do cheat don't give a shit about achievements. They don't carry any weight or prestige in any game. No one gives a shit.

This is just ridiculous, and Blizzard is basically doing this because they can.

Its their damn game. They can do whatever the hell they want with it/to it so long as its not copying it and giving it away.

The EULA says otherwise, but those don't carry any credence at all since they're only shown during installation. After you bought the thing.

This is straight up bullshit. Fuck achievements.

Except, from what I understand, they were specifically cheating to get the achievements / profile icons. So, that kind of torpedoes your theory that they didn't care about it, because that was their entire goal in the first place. Pretty much any other cheat you can think of is already in the game, and it disables your achievements/icon earning.

Everyone saying "blar blar they didn't care about achievements" is arguing an uphill battle when it appears as if they were trying to get the prestigious achievements / profile icons in the first place.

And if we accept that Blizzard does not want this to happen, the solution "wipe their achievements/icons" really won't fly, because what's to stop them from cheating to get it again?

Thats not relevant to the matter at hand really. The fact is that blizzard is using the fact that cheating has some effect on the multiplayer aspect (LOL gamerscore/profile icons) to remove your freedom to play the single player however you want. They designed it this way themselves.

But it doesn't. You can still play the single player however you want by using a Guest profile, which lets you play the game not logged in. They have absolutely not taken away ANY of the single-player stuff other than ... the achievements and stuff. Which affects multiplayer.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how this removes anyone's single-player freedoms at all, since there's still the Guest play offline option.

It seems to me that this sets precedent that we don't want. If this is ban-able, then so is anything else blizzard decides it doesn't like. Banning you from the multiplayer because of something you can do in the single player isn't right. Its just bad design on blizzards part.

Now any kind of modding if fair game for them, great. I have several mods for dawn of war, whole new races added, game balance changed, new units, different campaigns. None of witch is safe on blizzards watch because of some stupid achievements.