Blizzard: Diablo III About as Big as Diablo II

[Signa]

I'm just going to mention that all 5 classes in D3 have their own separate and exclusive resource system for abilities, only 1 of which is mana.

Well that's good. I've not been keeping up on the development of D3, because I find when I do that for any game, I raise my expectations too high. It's worked out well because then games sink or float on their own merits and not what others said about it before. Hell, one of my favorite games from this generation is Bioshock, and if you read the box, it lists a ton of things you can do in the game, and almost none of it is accurate or worth mentioning despite how cool they make it sound. It would have been bad if I went into that game expecting more than what I got.

 

[Echo136]

Hell, main reason they are playing it still is for the ladders, and the fact you have to play on the ladders just to get some gear. And if my memory serves, every reset of the ladder means you need a new character.

That, and nightmare mode can be hell on you.

And I can't play it sadly, lost the disk and such for D2, still have the expansion... and if i 'pirated' it, people would wag fingers, and id not be allowed onto B.net, which is no fun either...

I doubt anyone would care. I hear 99.9% of the people that play that game cheat at the game anyways.

 

[George Palmer]

I'm already playing Diablo 4. I found it online...IN THE FUTURE!

 

[VanBasten]

I'm already playing Diablo 4. I found it online...IN THE FUTURE!

LIAR!

No time machine built can go that far into the future.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

I bought 3 copies of d2 and 2 copies of LOD, full price, retail. But no lan play means no sale for this one (or starcraft 2 yet).

I had 2 each One for me and another for friends that wanted to play, I won't get this one either (as I did with SC2) but I'm more bothered by the new Battle.Net and Activision (generally don't buy any of their games) than the no LAN feature

You should try out Torchlight 2 when it comes out (probably still years before Diablo 3), 1 was really a lot of fun and 2 will have 4 player Co-Op.

Sadly no, I lost that as well. I bought the expansion because it was still installed on the old computer, but after some heavy moving I ended up losing pretty much the entirety of it... and I doubt I could just transfer the entire game from it to my laptop...

Do you still have the game installed on your old PC? You can read out your key using the registry I believe.

In torchlight the screen was too busy to see what is going on with one player, with 4 players it would just be a mess.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Don't fret. Diablo II is a huge game. People are still playing it today. Someone is playing it right now. You're playing it right now, aren't you?

NOBODY online has really played the actual game since 2003. It's been an endless stream of rushes and equipment dupes.
Let me make this clear: ALL OF TODAY'S PLAYERS INTENTIONALLY SKIP 90% OF THE CONTENT.
Why? GRIND. Biblical amounts of GRIND.

The best thing Wilson revealed about skills is how they won't allow for a broken character, like he admits you could technically have in Diablo II. "The Diablo II system forces you to get a bunch of skills you don't want and makes the door completely open ... and as a result your player is very likely to end up being broken," he said. "What we wanted to make sure was that that didn't happen."

Pfft. They sure tried REAL hard to not fix that in Diablo 2, what with releasing a patch that mathematically required your character to specialize in one (maybe two) attack skills or be utterly worthless in Hell mode.

Why? Because without specialization, your combat effectiveness was linear. With that specialization, it became exponential.
The game is designed (mathematically) with exponential difficulty. Only the first difficulty level is linear.

As a result, in single player, it is literally impossible to finish the game with 95% of all possible "viable" specialized character builds (that is, I'm ignoring all sorts of "builds" generated by the Counting Rule in statistics. Ie, random nonsensical skill allocations.) because every single enemy has an immunity (if not more than one) to a given attack.
Either you LAN up, or hack your character, because legitimate characters aren't even given the possibility of making high-level item runs (grind!).

And as I've established before, nobody online wants to bother with actually playing the game; they just get rushed and do Bhaal Runs because they want to skip right to the horribly unbalanced PvP (and because it wasn't intended to be the main mode of play by the developers).

What am I trying to accomplish with this rant? I'm just pointing out that Diablo 3 has some serious problems to address.

I don't see myself buying Diablo 3 if it's nothing but grind. I don't mind hack-n-slash games (I play Nethack on a regular basis) I just hate it when they turn the entire game into an accounting database. Give the player something to do! At least make the player occasionally think!

 

[Racthoh]

Either you LAN up, or hack your character, because legitimate characters aren't even given the possibility of making high-level item runs (grind!).

No? High level item runs might be a pain if you're not a sorceress (teleport) but they're hardly impossible. It just means you can't really run bosses that effectively but that won't stop you from running level 85 zones where any item in the game can drop; The Pit in Act I, Ancient Tunnels in Act II, River of Flame, Worldstone Keep floors, there's plenty of places to legitimately run a character for gear.

As a result, in single player, it is literally impossible to finish the game with 95% of all possible "viable" specialized character builds (that is, I'm ignoring all sorts of "builds" generated by the Counting Rule in statistics. Ie, random nonsensical skill allocations.) because every single enemy has an immunity (if not more than one) to a given attack.

You don't need a specialized build, especially not for single player. If you're running around on /players 8 (that is, simulating enemy strength as if 7 other players are there) then I can understand why you would want to sink all of your points into synergies to power a single skill. You also don't need to kill every enemy you come across; yes I hate when I run into that dual immune special enemy but so what? That's what a mercenary is for.

 

[Atmos Duality]

No? High level item runs might be a pain if you're not a sorceress (teleport) but they're hardly impossible.

Now I'm forced into assuming that I cannot reliably acquire gear to beat the game unless I use a sorceress. So much for choice.
I also must assume that I need to LAN now, because without cheating, I cannot transfer any items across to other characters.

The game isn't made for single player, and nobody wants to bother with actually playing it online because they all rush, bot, Bhaal Runs, or PvP. They all skip the core of the game. Care to guess why?

This is a direct result of Blizzard focusing EXCLUSIVELY ON THE MULTIPLAYER.
They even made ladder-only Runewords. Why? The odds of legitimately building nearly any of them offline are laughable; literally worse than winning the lottery.
There is no logical reason to restrict them in single player other than to encourage people to only play online.

Anyway...

Even by using the logic that with significant difficulty, you can acquire equipment with other characters, we just turned the game into a complete game of chance.

Sure, you can claim this makes the game intentionally difficult. You'd be correct, but only because it's using "Artificial Difficulty" to do so. Grind is the worst possible type of artificial difficulty, and it's a concept that should be stomped out of existence, because it doesn't enhance gameplay at all.

That's why most online players (read: the VAST MAJORITY) dupe, hack, and bot to bypass this. So now my only practical options are to grind away and hope for something useful (not likely), or cheat.
Bottom line: Neither of those can be attributed to good game design.

You don't need a specialized build, especially not for single player.

You do if you're playing past Nightmare Mode by yourself, without cheats. Without grinding, you cannot progress. Period. I've played Diablo 2 far longer than I want to admit (ugh...since 2001) and I have never seen anyone legitimately beat Single Player, without any help, dupes, or cheats, since version 1.09.

By far, BY FAR, most (I'd dare to say ALL) of those players who complained that the game is "too easy" HAVEN'T ACTUALLY PLAYED IT BY THEMSELVES. They get rushed to level 85. Their friends drop duped gear on them by the truckload. None of this is representative of the game's content or design.

If Blizzard wants to sell me on Diablo 3, the single-player experience had better not rely so extensively on grind to make the game difficult, because I've had enough of that.
A good hack-n-slash game should occasionally force the player consider how to deal with mobs of enemies rather than just rolling a big stat-bowling ball at them and hoping for the best.

 

[Syntax Error]

Wait, the same size as Diablo II? You mean 1 hour of story and 9 hours of killing on your first run on the first difficulty? Not sure if I want that. At least make it like MedianXL with its interesting monster encounters.

What I really like about this is the new skill system. Most skills in DII are just plain terribad. For example, if you maxed out Holy Fire Aura (not sure on the name) on your paladin, not only are you stuck with a weaksauce fire attack that's only slightly viable in normal, you won't be doing damage to 50% of the monsters in Hell (that is assuming, you get that far). Hopefully, Hell difficulty would be possible to do solo for all builds and make the itemization more forgiving (it sucks to have Baal drop nothing but 3 piles of gold, a cracked sash and a scroll of town portal after the arduous task of killing him).

Edit:

Spoiler

No? High level item runs might be a pain if you're not a sorceress (teleport) but they're hardly impossible.

Now I'm forced into assuming that I cannot reliably acquire gear to beat the game unless I use a sorceress. So much for choice.
I also must assume that I need to LAN now, because without cheating, I cannot transfer any items across to other characters.

The game isn't made for single player, and nobody wants to bother with actually playing it online because they all rush, bot, Bhaal Runs, or PvP. They all skip the core of the game. Care to guess why?

This is a direct result of Blizzard focusing EXCLUSIVELY ON THE MULTIPLAYER.
They even made ladder-only Runewords. Why? The odds of legitimately building nearly any of them offline are laughable; literally worse than winning the lottery.
There is no logical reason to restrict them in single player other than to encourage people to only play online.

Anyway...

Even by using the logic that with significant difficulty, you can acquire equipment with other characters, we just turned the game into a complete game of chance.

Sure, you can claim this makes the game intentionally difficult. You'd be correct, but only because it's using "Artificial Difficulty" to do so. Grind is the worst possible type of artificial difficulty, and it's a concept that should be stomped out of existence, because it doesn't enhance gameplay at all.

That's why most online players (read: the VAST MAJORITY) dupe, hack, and bot to bypass this. So now my only practical options are to grind away and hope for something useful (not likely), or cheat.
Bottom line: Neither of those can be attributed to good game design.

You don't need a specialized build, especially not for single player.

You do if you're playing past Nightmare Mode by yourself, without cheats. Without grinding, you cannot progress. Period. I've played Diablo 2 far longer than I want to admit (ugh...since 2001) and I have never seen anyone legitimately beat Single Player, without any help, dupes, or cheats, since version 1.09.

By far, BY FAR, most (I'd dare to say ALL) of those players who complained that the game is "too easy" HAVEN'T ACTUALLY PLAYED IT BY THEMSELVES. They get rushed to level 85. Their friends drop duped gear on them by the truckload. None of this is representative of the game's content or design.

If Blizzard wants to sell me on Diablo 3, the single-player experience had better not rely so extensively on grind to make the game difficult, because I've had enough of that.
A good hack-n-slash game should occasionally force the player consider how to deal with mobs of enemies rather than just rolling a big stat-bowling ball at them and hoping for the best.

I've beaten single player with a zookeeper. Naked. Yeah, that's the only character you can efficiently beat Hell solo. At all.

 

[seditary]

I'm just going to mention that all 5 classes in D3 have their own separate and exclusive resource system for abilities, only 1 of which is mana.

Well that's good. I've not been keeping up on the development of D3, because I find when I do that for any game, I raise my expectations too high. It's worked out well because then games sink or float on their own merits and not what others said about it before. Hell, one of my favorite games from this generation is Bioshock, and if you read the box, it lists a ton of things you can do in the game, and almost none of it is accurate or worth mentioning despite how cool they make it sound. It would have been bad if I went into that game expecting more than what I got.

I can totally relate to that, I usually follow that sort of thinking as well but I've been unable to with D3 lol.

 

[Optimystic]

Yeah, I notice you left the part about head-up-the-ass self-importance alone.

Because it wasn't worth replying to.

I personally don't give a shit about multiplayer, but if you do, you might want to revisit your post in about 6-8 months: http://www.torchlight2game.com/

Is there some insurmountable problem with getting both games? Just curious.

 

[SaintWaldo]

Yeah, I notice you left the part about head-up-the-ass self-importance alone.

Because it wasn't worth replying to.

But you just did...

I personally don't give a shit about multiplayer, but if you do, you might want to revisit your post in about 6-8 months: http://www.torchlight2game.com/

Is there some insurmountable problem with getting both games? Just curious.

Both Torchlight titles? I'd highly recommend it.

If you mean getting Torchlight 2 and Diablo 3, no problem in general, knock yourself out. If you are asking about specific problems I feel Diablo 3 has, namely that Torchlight 2 will (more than likely) come out first, be more open and un-DRM'd, include off-internet LAN play, be less dismally themed and therefore, IMO, more fun, then, yeah, I'd call all of that insurmountable. For me, at least.

But if you have a deep yen for Diablo 3, power to you. I'm sure you've got your own list.

 

[Optimystic]

Torchlight 2 will (more than likely) come out first...

How is that a problem? Different release dates means that people can save money between purchases. That makes it easier, not harder, to get both titles.

be more open and un-DRM'd

You do know that Torchlight 1 had DRM, right?

include off-internet LAN play,

What group of friends doesn't have an internet connection in this day and age?

be less dismally themed

Seriously?

Look, I understand if you like Torchlight better and there's nothing wrong with that. But there's no point in trumping up phony reasons to hate Diablo to justify your preference, or to baselessly insult such a classic game.

 

[wulfy42]

The ability to Respec at will will probably make D3 far less addictive and have a far shorter life span then D2 did.

For most people there were 3-4 primary draws to d2...but they were great.

Creating new characters and trying out all the skill combinations (biggest for me)
Player versus player battles (also combined with the above) Never a huge draw for mw.
Getting the best equipment through runs/trading/crafting etc (mixed with both of the above).

The last will still be there but the first is a big draw for many players and if you can respec a character as many times as you want....that will drastically shorten how long the game lasts.

I spent thousands of hours playing D2...but if I could have changed my skill points at will I would have only spent hundreds at most.

Still worth getting mind you....but it will certainly take away some of the fun.

 

[XT inc]

Blizzard: Diablo III About as Big as Diablo II

The best thing Wilson revealed about skills is how they won't allow for a broken character, like he admits you could technically have in Diablo II. "The Diablo II system forces you to get a bunch of skills you don't want and makes the door completely open ... and as a result your player is very likely to end up being broken," he said. "What we wanted to make sure was that that didn't happen."



Permalink

Would game devs stop doing this stuff, It is so annoying that they now tool games so nubs can just be as dumb as before only now they can get it right because realistically there is no wrong answer. I mean how about we preach intelligence and trial and error, thought and hard work instead of go nuts kiddo you cant fuck up.

I appreciate that they made the obvious choice of letting you respec your char but this babying of gamers has got to stop at some point. I mean look at wow they used give you twice as many talent points, that you could spec into bigger trees and hybrid class by going into the other two trees if you felt it was for the best. Now you get way less points and can only hybrid in the weakest sense once you have reached the last skill in one of the trees giving you like 5 points at lvl 79 to branch into other classes.

 

[Eatbrainz]

The collector's edition will come with spare mice for when you wear out your current one from clicking, and a respirator incase you forget how to breathe!

 

[Kashrlyyk]

....
The best thing Wilson revealed about skills is how they won't allow for a broken character, like he admits you could technically have in Diablo II. "The Diablo II system forces you to get a bunch of skills you don't want and makes the door completely open ... and as a result your player is very likely to end up being broken," he said. "What we wanted to make sure was that that didn't happen."...

Broken characters would be no problem at all if leveling a new character up to the level of the broken character wouldn't take a year of playing 24/7!!!!!