Blizzard Responds to Nostalrius Server Closure Complaints

[Paragon Fury]

I'm not sure the profits would be huge, but I can see vanilla, TBC and WotLK servers generating enough revenue to be worthwhile. Certainly plenty of veteran players would return for them. Would be interesting to see how they handled raid progression.

You, and others who support Classic/TBC/Wraith servers don't understand how quickly the situation spirals for Blizzard.

Unlike Nostralius, who if question could just go "Well, we're doing this for fun and out of the goodness of our hearts" and be done with it, Blizzard would have legal obligations for these servers. Namely, they would have to be on-par with functionality and service to current live servers, meaning;

- You need a server for each region - NA, LAN, WEU, EEU, AF, ME, CN, KR, JP, OCE
- A PvP version of each server - so 2x
- Tech support for these servers
- Integration and functionality with Battle.net App
- Where to draw the line? Is an OL server? An AQ40 server?

And that is just for a Classic server. Once you give that, people are going to expect other servers too - a TBC server, a Wraith Server, a Cata server and even a MoP server.

With even a cursory look at the situation, you've gone from one server to a minimum of 10, and maybe even a hundred.

 

[That Guy Ya Know]

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The idea that you have to defend your IP is a common myth but untrue, this only applies to trademarks even there it doesn't go quite as far as some people seem to think (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet).

As far as your claim to an IP it doesn't apply at all, See http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-1315_f20h.pdf where the supreme court confirmed there was no time limit on when you had to sue.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

I'm not sure the profits would be huge, but I can see vanilla, TBC and WotLK servers generating enough revenue to be worthwhile. Certainly plenty of veteran players would return for them. Would be interesting to see how they handled raid progression.

You, and others who support Classic/TBC/Wraith servers don't understand how quickly the situation spirals for Blizzard.

Unlike Nostralius, who if question could just go "Well, we're doing this for fun and out of the goodness of our hearts" and be done with it, Blizzard would have legal obligations for these servers. Namely, they would have to be on-par with functionality and service to current live servers, meaning;

- You need a server for each region - NA, LAN, WEU, EEU, AF, ME, CN, KR, JP, OCE
- A PvP version of each server - so 2x
- Tech support for these servers
- Integration and functionality with Battle.net App
- Where to draw the line? Is an OL server? An AQ40 server?

And that is just for a Classic server. Once you give that, people are going to expect other servers too - a TBC server, a Wraith Server, a Cata server and even a MoP server.

With even a cursory look at the situation, you've gone from one server to a minimum of 10, and maybe even a hundred.

Not only that, but there are possible compatibility issues. Wow vanilla was made to run on windows XP. We are 4 operating systems later on that. If a pirate server/client is buggy everyone just says "oh well, it's free, they are doing the best they can." But if Blizzard is running the show then they ave to bring it up to a standard of functionality that is acceptable.

It is possible it is worth doing but it is a massive effort. And how long until the novelty wears off for people?

 

[Rastrelly]

All they had to do is to allow usage of certain software for certain purposes: noncommercial entertainment without any obligation from Blizzard. Licenses are given by Blizzard on basis of requests.

 

[Synigma]

I'd just like to point out the silver lining for all the people who are interested in the Legacy servers idea:

One other note - we've recently been in contact with some of the folks who operated Nostalrius. They obviously care deeply about the game, and we look forward to more conversations with them in the coming weeks.

There is presumably a reason they are still in talks with these folks; If they can figure out a way to make Legacy servers work these folks can be brought on board as official Blizzard employees to handle it. It's far from a promise but it's a ray of hope in this murky pool of legalese.

 

[thewatergamer]

Yeah all I hear are a bunch of excuses and empty promises Blizzard, instead of giving vague statements like "Its difficult to protect our IP" or "We've looked into it but its not as simple as pushing a button" why don't you actually fucking do it? You should be hiring the team that made that server and just put them in charge, simple solution, they'll be part of your company so you won't be licensing anything and their is clearly a demand for it. For once in like a decade Blizzard, actually do something good for your old fanbase

 

[VaporWare]

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The idea that you have to defend your IP is a common myth but untrue, this only applies to trademarks even there it doesn't go quite as far as some people seem to think (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet).

As far as your claim to an IP it doesn't apply at all, See http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-1315_f20h.pdf where the supreme court confirmed there was no time limit on when you had to sue.

Thank you for the clarification. Losing their biggest trademark would still be a hell of a thing for a company like Blizzard.

I come back to 'it's messy'.

 

[CritialGaming]

Yeah all I hear are a bunch of excuses and empty promises Blizzard, instead of giving vague statements like "Its difficult to protect our IP" or "We've looked into it but its not as simple as pushing a button" why don't you actually fucking do it? You should be hiring the team that made that server and just put them in charge, simple solution, they'll be part of your company so you won't be licensing anything and their is clearly a demand for it. For once in like a decade Blizzard, actually do something good for your old fanbase

Things cost money. And their is no evidence that their "old fanbase" will pay and play long enough to warrent all the extra overhead of a project like this.

A vanilla server isn't a button they can push. They have to re-work the entire game in order to make it work properly on modern systems, which have changed drastically in the 12 years since Vanilla launched. Everyone likes to assume it's laziness or not giving a shit, but it is far more complicated than that.

 

[That Guy Ya Know]

Stuff

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The idea that you have to defend your IP is a common myth but untrue, this only applies to trademarks even there it doesn't go quite as far as some people seem to think (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet).

As far as your claim to an IP it doesn't apply at all, See http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-1315_f20h.pdf where the supreme court confirmed there was no time limit on when you had to sue.

Thank you for the clarification. Losing their biggest trademark would still be a hell of a thing for a company like Blizzard.

I come back to 'it's messy'.

Sure but there's a big leap from you can't use our trademarks to you must shut down the server so they can't really claim the shutdown was necessary to defend their IP.

Look if Blizzard want to shutdown a private server that is their right and I would never argue against that, but could they please not lie to us and spread a potentially harmful myth. (How many IP owners have shutdown projects they would rather not have due to this myth?)

 

[loa]

"We explored options of doing this thing that has literally already been done in the server we just shut down and determined nah, 2 difficult 4 us. Also we had to do it because its the law even though ignoring it for over a year somehow didn't make us implode by creating a legal precedent, kthx".

Yeah, no.

 

[sonicneedslovetoo]

Looks like Blizzard is hedging their bets that Legion won't be a WOD level disaster... sucks to be them.

 

[CritialGaming]

You think you want it....but you don't....not enough of you to justify it. Sorry. It sucks but that's the fucking truth and many of you know it.

1 million subs to that vanilla only server proves you wrong. Its really funny that you think it took months to lvl up in vanilla. Maybe for you but I can see you're one of those scrubs who uses LFR. I'll tell you why Blizzard does not want to do this. Its really simple if you got a brain. Besides the legal stuff it's simply pride. That's all it is. Pride. They made all this cool shit and all everyone wants to do is play the old shit most of them had no hand in making. Sure there a few of the old guys around but not as many as they once was. How would that make you feel if you work 2 years on Warlords of Draenor (might have been less time considering there is no content) only to have every other person you talk to say they want vanilla only servers? You would be like 'Fuck you play my shit because I worked on it.'
That is the bottom line. Those assholes in charge at Blizzard do not want to admit they can't make stuff as good as it was 10 years ago. Why do you think it took them this long to put in demon hunters and bring back Illidan or give players the Ashbringer?

First off, it wasn't 1 million subs. It was 850,000 REGISTERED, only 150,000 of which was active. Which by my count is approximately 18% for their total account-base. And those numbers don't cut it for a real project like this from a Billion dollar business. Because as much as people like to deny it, Blizzard is a business and their #1 is to make money. They will do whatever it takes to make their fans happy and keep them playing and paying, so long as that investment yields ultimate profits in the end.

Server hardware, computer hardware, operating systems, and tools have all changed. Which means that the code for Vanilla WoW needs to be overhauled in order to work correctly on these systems.

Secondly, the current game. Do you really think anyone over at Blizzard is trying to make WoW suck? They are trying to find ways to appeal to an incredibly huge market. Even at only 3.5-4million players, that market is huge. They can by no means make everyone happy. Crazy as it sounds, some people liked Garrisons and like LFR. I don't know why, and I don't understand it, but for whatever reason they love that shit. Then there are the WoW verterans, these people typically hate new WoW. They hate seeing their content become so accessible to so many more people.

I was a raider in TBC, I ran Sunwell, and Black Temple. I raided Lich King too, taking him down ICC felt awesome. But to do all of that, was a lot of work. And part of me hated people for a long time that could just come into the game, hit the LFR button and go do the content. I saw it as my work was squandered for this new casual and quick audience.

But then a crazy thing happened to me. I grew up, got a job, and saw my free time all but vanish. Suddenly in Mists, I became that casual shit-brick in LFR. I became the guy who couldn't put down the time to farm cooking and elixir mats throughout the week so that I was prepared for the raid. I became.......a....a...a.....CASUAL!

You have to realize that the game changing, becoming more welcoming to a new audience, doesn't make the game bad. It makes it different and people fucking hate change. Gear doesn't mean the same thing anymore, mounts don't mean shit because there are over 400 of the things now, everyone gets flying and epic riding and all that shit we used to have to grind out for.

Yet we have an experience that people will never get to have in WoW again. We have those nights grinding mobs with our friends for rep. Or wiping with our 40-man raid in Molten Core. We remember gearing up new guildies in TBC, running them through stuff to get them attuned. We have all these awesome experiences in our memories. And that's the thing.....they are OUR memories. No amount of changes will ever take that away from us.

Those memories are what make us look back on Vanilla days with such fondness. But ask yourself something. Really think about it too.

Would releasing a Vanilla server bring any of those memories back? Sure you might be able to recall those memories. But it wont recreate them. In fact I bet that most people would log onto a Vanilla server with their friends and spend a few hours telling stories and old jokes, but they wouldn't stay for long.

And if they did release a Vanilla server, would you have the time to invest in such a game anymore? Even the youngest WoW players at the time have to at least be in college, have jobs, families even. Could you realistically put that much effort into a game you've already played for years after the fact? A game in which you have probably progress far beyond the limits of Vanilla WoW. How long could you seriously see yourself playing, how much time a week?

Come on.....be realistic.

 

[LazyAza]

Sounds like a load of bullshit to me. The mere fact a "pirate" server was able to operate as it did literally proves all the claims blizzard has made of it being difficult to be complete and utter nonsense. Difficult for a small group with limited funds sure, but for a multi-billion company with nigh infinite resources? yeah they're full of shit if they're claiming they can't do it too.

And we all know why they won't; fear. They're afraid if they cater to a specific niche crowd that only wants an old game that doesn't sell anymore they'll lose more people from their new products and those will sell less. Its all marketing business crap. They want big bucks and catering to the people that want old wow support would mean admitting they've failed to properly evolve the game and keep it highly successful. Which they absolutely have. WoW could have lived for forever and after countless idiotic decisions whether they be gameplay or even writing related, people are just sick of what they've been doing. Lich was the peak of the game, and its only gotten worse ever since and the insane drop in subscribers showcases that perfectly.

 

[Politrukk]

Amateurs can send up a multitude of private servers but somehow The WoW devs are absolutely unable to do it?

Is this guy taking the piss?

 

[Saelune]

Put the server on your payroll, they become legal employees who run your server for you and do all the work, just got to give them some minimum wage paycheck and don't have to worry about barbaric copyright laws that need to be fixed but never will cause no one ever wants to start from the ground up legally with systems that don't work anymore.

 

[Xeorm]

Sounds like a load of bullshit to me. The mere fact a "pirate" server was able to operate as it did literally proves all the claims blizzard has made of it being difficult to be complete and utter nonsense. Difficult for a small group with limited funds sure, but for a multi-billion company with nigh infinite resources? yeah they're full of shit if they're claiming they can't do it too.

And we all know why they won't; fear. They're afraid if they cater to a specific niche crowd that only wants an old game that doesn't sell anymore they'll lose more people from their new products and those will sell less. Its all marketing business crap. They want big bucks and catering to the people that want old wow support would mean admitting they've failed to properly evolve the game and keep it highly successful. Which they absolutely have. WoW could have lived for forever and after countless idiotic decisions whether they be gameplay or even writing related, people are just sick of what they've been doing. Lich was the peak of the game, and its only gotten worse ever since and the insane drop in subscribers showcases that perfectly.

Money doesn't grow on trees for companies. Having access to resources like Blizzard does doesn't mean that investing those resources in a project will magically make that project work out. This small project that the fans put together was not only hemorrhaging funds, but it was doing so after being worked on roughly for free by the people in question.

Yes, this privately setup server was so far in the red that it was about to be shut down anyway. People love to say how much they'd like to play vanilla again, but when it comes to actually paying money for that...people aren't interested. For Blizzard to do the same would not only require paying all the server fees and maintenance costs that these guys were paying, but also the time spent for their people. Payroll for employees is a massive expense, and if the private server couldn't do it with free employees, why do we expect Blizzard to do better?

Plus, it'd compete with the current WoW development. These new vanilla servers need to not only have players playing them in order to meet costs, but they need to do so in a way that doesn't reduce how many people currently pay for WoW. There's zero point in developing a system that competes for money you're already making.

Do people really, honestly, expect these servers to make their money back? All the information I've seen so far points out that it would be such a colossal waste of money for Blizzard that it's no surprise they haven't done these servers yet.

 

[chadachada123]

I really don't believe Blizzard when they suggest that it isn't possible to license the guys for basically nothing, with the condition that it remain both vanilla WoW and completely non-profit. It's by far the best option for all parties.

As others have pointed out, it'd cost Blizzard a lot more to run their own vanilla servers, but telling players "fuck you, either latest release or the DMCA" isn't exactly an adult reaction.

It's possible that the reaction is genuine albeit misinformed, and their lawyers have merely *convinced* them that licensing isn't an option. Hard to say.

 

[bluegate]

I really don't believe Blizzard when they suggest that it isn't possible to license the guys for basically nothing, with the condition that it remain both vanilla WoW and completely non-profit. It's by far the best option for all parties.

As others have pointed out, it'd cost Blizzard a lot more to run their own vanilla servers, but telling players "fuck you, either latest release or the DMCA" isn't exactly an adult reaction.

It's possible that the reaction is genuine albeit misinformed, and their lawyers have merely *convinced* them that licensing isn't an option. Hard to say.

Completely non-profit? The project was about to go bankrupt as it was, how would you expect them to go on if they aren't allowed to make money from it?

 

[The Wykydtron]

Protect their IP from what exactly? That's the line that gets me.

It's not like people who used the vanilla server are very likely to come back to pay money for the new WoW right? That's why they chose a vanilla server in the first place? So it's not really piracy (in my mind anyway) because they were never gonna use the service you would have to pay for (new WoW) in the first place.

Bullshit boys. Well at least the statement isn't as bad as: