Blizzard "Trying Not to Oversexualize" Female Overwatch Characters

NoX 9

I Want A Hug!
Jul 2, 2014
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DrOswald said:
Listen NoX, I don't want to be rude, but what you wrote in your initial post was at the very least highly misleading. To anyone who plays WoW regularly it was absolutely and immediately clear that you was googled "sexy wow armor" and found a level appropriate set you found particularly egregious and used that for your example, complete with extremely specific complaints that only apply to that very specific set of armor. You set out to make the situation seem as bad as possible in a completely transparent way. People don't react well to that sort of exaggeration.
I also don't really want to be rude, but it pisses me the hell off that all of you are asuming I lied. Did you never google a picture you needed for a forum post? Never ever? But you know, whatever. Enjoy thinking I lied, I won't bother caring anymore. You're just some random person on the internet, and this nonsense has gotten me enough pointless warnings as it is...

PirateHeaventime said:
When in doubt, just call troll. Just cut your losses man, you were caught in a pathetic lie. Just stop...
Why would I lie? What did I have to gain? I certainly don't seem to have gained anything from all of this, just gotten fustrated as hell at you people. I'll make sure to keep my experiences to my self for now, seems like whenever I open my big fat mouth people go absolutely crazy.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

More Lego Goats Please!
May 17, 2011
2,728
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Topsider said:
GrumbleGrump said:
or short stout heavy type gal.
You know, if every game ever to release from now one featured one of these, I think this issue would mysteriously go away.
It would take a bit more than just that though. Make girls legs look like actual girls legs for one, and not some weird overly photo-shopped awkward version of models legs. Even models legs do not actually look exactly like that. If they are going to have the ability to kick someones teeth out, they have to have actual legs that can do so. There is no " gymnast" body type here, no fighter type, not even a ninja type... Gymnasts legs are muscular, not that lanky and thin. That doesn't mean " short and heavy".

The females legs in this game (as with most) do not even look like real female legs...

Gymnasts may be short but certainly not heavy. The problem is their women characters actually do not look like women, not even female Olympians.. not even female fighters.. Not even a top form of these role models that girls aspire to be like. The characters do not look like "girls heroes", they just look weird next to real women. Even their shin to thigh ratio is jacked.
 

Nimzabaat

New member
Feb 1, 2010
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Lil devils x said:
Strazdas said:
Nimzabaat said:
So one out of five female characters not being in a form fitting outfit counts as "trying"?
why wouldnt they be in form fitting clothing? fighting with guns is hard enough without your clothes getting in the way. its the reason real life female troops also use form fitting clothes - so they dont flail around and make it harder for you to battle.
The problem is this is what women look like:
http://www.shopyourshape.com/body-shapes/








When you actually look at the body types of the women who kick ass for real, it is not anywhere close to the unrealistic body types they portray in games. These women somehow are able to supposedly kick ass in this game do so without muscles.
This is just another one of those games that will give girls a negative self image due to the odd portrayal of the female body types.
They have males portrayed in many shapes and sizes, but not so for the females.
Thank you! That's what I was trying to say all along, you've just done it way better than I could. While I don't mind the character designs personally, it's Blizzard claiming to be taking the "high road" without even looking at that particular off ramp that is aggravating me.
 

dragonswarrior

Also a Social Justice Warrior
Feb 13, 2012
434
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Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
*laughs* Allright. Apology accepted, and I can totally understand that. *grins* Just realize... For a lot of folks this is a very serious issue. And many of them don't have the option of saying "this is just a game" because for them it can't "just" be that. Something they love has to be in so many ways offensive to them, at least at the moment. And for them (me, us) fighting against that is something that is really worth it.
What is it about this game that strips of them of the option of seeing it as just a game? Why do they already love this game, what has it already done to offend them? It appears to me that you've merely created a new witch for your ongoing hunt. Or at the least found a new battleground to hash over things that have been hashed over. Just doesn't feel appropriate here in the comments about a game whose lead developer has just expressed his agreement.
Okay, you're either blind or a sociopath. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're blind.

Imagine if you will for a second, that all the male characters in all the games you play look like Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, Orlando Bloom, or Channing Tatum.

ALL of them. There is no variety. There are no robots. If there are aliens, the aliens look exactly like one of those four gentlemen. That's it. All the time. No variation.

Now imagine that half of them go through the entire game dressed something like this:


If you can, if your soul is not too shriveled, try and imagine how that would make you feel.

Also, I find it highly amusing that you would compare feminist work to a witch hunt, which was one of the most horribly misogynistic things to ever happen in the history of the world. Har de har har har.

EDIT: I see that you have added some things after your initial post. I REALLY wish I didn't have to keep hashing over this stuff. And yet... People like you keep making horribly ignorant comments. And some people like Z of the Na'Vi make mildly ignorant comments. And I won't sit by and let those things go in order to avoid what... inconveniencing you for 30 seconds? Please hun, you ain't worth all that. Especially when there is a chance, however slight, that this might be the one time that you truly listen. Or if not you, then perhaps someone else scrolling through the comments. And I certainly won't hold back when there is chance that this comment, added to the weight of all the others, will help to convince you of the horrors of this world.

Also, stop trying to silence discussion. It's not healthy. In fact, it's horribly problematic.
 

Ticklefist

New member
Jul 19, 2010
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dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
*laughs* Allright. Apology accepted, and I can totally understand that. *grins* Just realize... For a lot of folks this is a very serious issue. And many of them don't have the option of saying "this is just a game" because for them it can't "just" be that. Something they love has to be in so many ways offensive to them, at least at the moment. And for them (me, us) fighting against that is something that is really worth it.
What is it about this game that strips of them of the option of seeing it as just a game? Why do they already love this game, what has it already done to offend them? It appears to me that you've merely created a new witch for your ongoing hunt. Or at the least found a new battleground to hash over things that have been hashed over. Just doesn't feel appropriate here in the comments about a game whose lead developer has just expressed his agreement.
Okay, you're either blind or a sociopath.
That's how you're going to open? We're done. Why'd you bother?
 

dragonswarrior

Also a Social Justice Warrior
Feb 13, 2012
434
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Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
*laughs* Allright. Apology accepted, and I can totally understand that. *grins* Just realize... For a lot of folks this is a very serious issue. And many of them don't have the option of saying "this is just a game" because for them it can't "just" be that. Something they love has to be in so many ways offensive to them, at least at the moment. And for them (me, us) fighting against that is something that is really worth it.
What is it about this game that strips of them of the option of seeing it as just a game? Why do they already love this game, what has it already done to offend them? It appears to me that you've merely created a new witch for your ongoing hunt. Or at the least found a new battleground to hash over things that have been hashed over. Just doesn't feel appropriate here in the comments about a game whose lead developer has just expressed his agreement.
Okay, you're either blind or a sociopath.
That's how you're going to open? We're done. Why'd you bother?
Actually you make a good point. I was angry. I apologize. I shouldn't have opened with that.
 

Ticklefist

New member
Jul 19, 2010
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dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
*laughs* Allright. Apology accepted, and I can totally understand that. *grins* Just realize... For a lot of folks this is a very serious issue. And many of them don't have the option of saying "this is just a game" because for them it can't "just" be that. Something they love has to be in so many ways offensive to them, at least at the moment. And for them (me, us) fighting against that is something that is really worth it.
What is it about this game that strips of them of the option of seeing it as just a game? Why do they already love this game, what has it already done to offend them? It appears to me that you've merely created a new witch for your ongoing hunt. Or at the least found a new battleground to hash over things that have been hashed over. Just doesn't feel appropriate here in the comments about a game whose lead developer has just expressed his agreement.
Okay, you're either blind or a sociopath.
That's how you're going to open? We're done. Why'd you bother?
Actually you make a good point. I was angry. I apologize. I shouldn't have opened with that.
Too bad you didn't feel that way before you typed all that other stuff I'm never going to read.
 

dragonswarrior

Also a Social Justice Warrior
Feb 13, 2012
434
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Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
Okay, you're either blind or a sociopath.
That's how you're going to open? We're done. Why'd you bother?
Actually you make a good point. I was angry. I apologize. I shouldn't have opened with that.
Too bad you didn't feel that way before you typed all that other stuff I'm never going to read.
Willfully blind then. Thanks for answering my question.
 

Ticklefist

New member
Jul 19, 2010
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dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
dragonswarrior said:
Ticklefist said:
Okay, you're either blind or a sociopath.
That's how you're going to open? We're done. Why'd you bother?
Actually you make a good point. I was angry. I apologize. I shouldn't have opened with that.
Too bad you didn't feel that way before you typed all that other stuff I'm never going to read.
Willfully blind then. Thanks for answering my question.
I didn't answer your question. You pushed me away and drew the conclusion that makes you feel good about it.
 

dragonswarrior

Also a Social Justice Warrior
Feb 13, 2012
434
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Topsider said:
dragonswarrior said:
If you can, if your soul is not too shriveled, try and imagine how that would make you feel.
It'd make me feel like I ought to get to the gym more.

That's probably about it, because you haven't given me any of the actual important stuff that I judge a game on. How's the gameplay? How challenging is it? Replay value? Is it even in my wheelhouse in terms of games I like? Etc.

Character design is last on my list of things I care about. Some of the best games I've played have been visual atrocities (see: Dwarf Fortress). I really don't care about the cosmetics as long as the game's fun.
*sighs* It's one of the last things you care about because you have the privilege to not care about it. I mean, if you truly sat there and thought about it, and that's really the answer you came up with then fine.

But would you be angry if some other guys took exception to the fact that every single character of their gender in every single game they played looked like that?

Would you be able to sit back and be like "I have no idea what you guys are talking about, just enjoy the game!" when half the male characters looked and were dressed like Magic Mike?
 

dragonswarrior

Also a Social Justice Warrior
Feb 13, 2012
434
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Topsider said:
I'd conclude those games weren't for those guys, and I'd conclude that since nobody is making an alternative, the market must not judge them to be very significant players that it makes sense to sink time and money into satisfying.

Or, to put it another way, there's a popular bar in my neighborhood. A lot of people I know enjoy it. I don't. I deal with this by not going there much. You're suggesting that instead, I should go there, and start demanding that they change their menu, their decor, and start putting Redskins games on instead of Steelers games. You're then suggesting that I act surprised and outraged when the bar's long-standing patrons respond with varying degrees of, "Hey, fuck you, we were here first, there's more of us, and we like it just fine."

I don't think that's sensible.
Firstly, you have WAY more faith in marketing than they deserve. Secondly, you don't see that as being something of an asshole?

Thirdly, your analogy is off. It would be more appropriate if it was the only bar in town, and every time you went in to get a drink someone made a snide comment about your appearance and someone else said you didn't belong in the bar anyway (before you complained mind), and the only other place to get alcohol in the entire town was a liqueur store that only said Coors Light.

And then when you were justifiably like "wtf?" everyone told you that clearly alcohol wasn't for you, so you shouldn't be complaining about it anyway.
 

Azure23

New member
Nov 5, 2012
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Amidst the ruin of this thread are some really good discussions about body type and the differences between sexualization and oversexualization, well done fellow escapists. Worth the read.

As for the characters themselves? I like them on the whole.

-Tracer is a speedster character so it'd make sense for her legs to be unarmored and sleek.

-Pharrah is a heavy assault character with some wings for mobility, her armor is appropriately thick and robotic to deal with her weapons (probably) huge recoil and flight capabilities. As for it's feminine shape? Women soldiers have been campaigning for armor that fits them years now, I approve.

-Symmetra has this whole sleek tech thing going on, she's clearly all about the marriage of form and function in both her tech and character design. And she is appropriately elegant, with an evening dress like costume that shows off some leg. I'd say it's in context with her personality and aesthetic.

-Mercy is where I start getting a bit wary though. An angelic motif for your medic, fine great. Cool tech wings, I like her hair......but those boob bags. When did boob bag clothing become a thing? I blame 90's comics personally. I have never in my life seen a piece of clothing with two boob shaped bags that contour perfectly to a woman's breasts. And more than that, it just feels a little lazy, the bottom half of her design is cool. It's got edges and curves and overlap, the top half is just basically white body paint.

-Widowmaker is, well.......Widowmaker. Okay here's the thing, I don't think anybody has a problem with cat suits as a thing for stealth assassins to wear right? I mean it makes sense, you don't want a bunch of gear or armor jangling around on you when trying to sneak and snipe, she has a grappling hook for vertical movement so it makes sense for her to be lightly armored. But there's the open front, and the butt contouring and the posing. A good assassin wants to be unseen, or kill from distances so as to make the question of stealth a moot point anyway, but her whole character design just shouts "look at me! Look at how sexy I am! Look at how my butt sticks out when I crouch!" I still think she's cool, her abilities seem fun and I love sniping so I'll definitely be giving her a shot (harhar) but I think her design would be infinitely better with a few small changes, seriously just lose the open front and make the butt not so contouring, I mean even ultra thin, tight fabric doesn't just settle in a butt crack, it stretches over it, it doesn't define it. And I gotta add this as kind of a disclaimer, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a sexy lady assassin, as long as her sexiness makes sense in context, if widowmaker's MO was to approach her target at a fancy bar/ party/ whatever, seduce them, get them to a private place, and kill them in close quarters, then revealing attire would be fine, it'd make sense. But as she's a sniper, her attire should be functional.

I guess 3/5 really isn't so bad. My main issue with the characters as a whole is the fact that they're all classic hourglass figures. Body type variation is a good thing, and even in combat disciplines different people's bodies look different. I mean Pharrah is in a huge suit of armor, she could be a bit stockier to reflect the strength required to move and fight in that thing. And despite Tracer being a speedster she's still got some pretty big boobs, when ladies run they tend to wear sports bras, because running with big boobs hurts. Sports bras do some serious compression to keep stuff from bouncing around, seems like Tracer should be wearing one. But these are tiny nitpicks in some pretty impressive character designs, I like the characters, and their personalities (aside from widow maker who seems to have the laziest evil assassin personality and backstory available) are distinct and fit their characterization.

Anyway yeah, kind of a long post. I hope at least a few people read the whole thing.
 

GrumbleGrump

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Oct 14, 2014
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Lil devils x said:
Topsider said:
GrumbleGrump said:
or short stout heavy type gal.
You know, if every game ever to release from now one featured one of these, I think this issue would mysteriously go away.
It would take a bit more than just that though. Make girls legs look like actual girls legs for one, and not some weird overly photo-shopped awkward version of models legs. Even models legs do not actually look exactly like that. If they are going to have the ability to kick someones teeth out, they have to have actual legs that can do so. There is no " gymnast" body type here, no fighter type, not even a ninja type... Gymnasts legs are muscular, not that lanky and thin. That doesn't mean " short and heavy".

The females legs in this game (as with most) do not even look like real female legs...

Gymnasts may be short but certainly not heavy. The problem is their women characters actually do not look like women, not even female Olympians.. not even female fighters.. Not even a top form of these role models that girls aspire to be like. The characters do not look like "girls heroes", they just look weird next to real women. Even their shin to thigh ratio is jacked.

Umm, ok? I was referring to something to a short body builder kind of girl. Y'know, really muscly and stuff. The gymnastic kind of legs would fit better on character like Tracer. But then again the game is very stylized and not every character has been revealed, so we can't really say these girls are all there is. Maybe there is a tanky girl or tall and slender kind of gal.
 

PirateHeaventime

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Nov 9, 2014
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Lil devils x said:
Strazdas said:
Nimzabaat said:
So one out of five female characters not being in a form fitting outfit counts as "trying"?
why wouldnt they be in form fitting clothing? fighting with guns is hard enough without your clothes getting in the way. its the reason real life female troops also use form fitting clothes - so they dont flail around and make it harder for you to battle.
The problem is this is what women look like:
http://www.shopyourshape.com/body-shapes/








When you actually look at the body types of the women who kick ass for real, it is not anywhere close to the unrealistic body types they portray in games. These women somehow are able to supposedly kick ass in this game do so without muscles.
This is just another one of those games that will give girls a negative self image due to the odd portrayal of the female body types.
They have males portrayed in many shapes and sizes, but not so for the females.
Good thing its just a video game.
 

Batou667

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Oct 5, 2011
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Yahtzee in this week said:
I've often heard the argument that male and female heroes in video games and comic books are both designed solely to appeal to immature men, the simpering fat-titted stick-insects to excite their nerd boners and the bulging interchangeable six-packs for the aspirational power fantasy. And I've never been convinced of that. Tell me that women never find big muscles attractive and I will call you a liar, because I have glanced at the romance section of my local bookstore and it's a wall of bulging torsos with the heads cropped off.
Ha-ha! Precisely the point I made earlier in this thread.

Lil devils x said:
When you actually look at the body types of the women who kick ass for real, it is not anywhere close to the unrealistic body types they portray in games. These women somehow are able to supposedly kick ass in this game do so without muscles.
...what's your point, that real life is underwhelming? We know that, that's why we play video games.

Lil devils x said:
This is just another one of those games that will give girls a negative self image due to the odd portrayal of the female body types.
They have males portrayed in many shapes and sizes, but not so for the females.
If girls are aspiring to look like highly stylised CG video game characters then they're honestly not very clever. Girls and women are subject to plenty of depictions of idealised female body images, but what makes you think video games come close to top of the list of influences? Also, won't anybody think of those poor 15 year old boys welding chunks of metal to themselves because they're trying to emulate the cool robot character?