Blizzard Unveils Diablo III "Paragon System"


New member
Jan 26, 2009
Boudica said:
DracoSuave said:
Fact 1: The most lucrative form of computer crime existent today is by far without ANY debate, the violation of WoW accounts.

You're saying hacked accounts for the World of Warcraft video game are more lucrative a computer crime than any other scam, piracy ring, child pornography underground, fraud or identity theft?

If that's a fact like you claim, I want to see some sources and evidence.
Of those, the one that is the most lucrative is identity theft, estimated at costing its victims 50 million dollars per annum. Now that's cost to the victims, that doesn't necessarily mean the criminals are MAKING 50mill a year. (according to

Gold selling in WoW is estimated to be a BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY. Even the most conservative estimates put it at over a billion dollars a year. (according to, a gold seller watchdog site.)

Child Porn... I won't touch that. If given the choice between attacking gold selling and attacking child porn, child porn should get the priority. It's not because of financial loss, however. But it's not really a 'computer crime', in the same sense that stealing from the cash register isn't a computer crime even tho there's a computer involved. It's more of a crime against humanity. But I digress, it's still NOT a billion dollar industry.

Atmos Duality

New member
Mar 3, 2010
DracoSuave said:
Most of the time, it's not Blizzard's fault when an account gets 'hacked'. It's generally a keylogger on the breached person's computer.
As it pertains to my situation, I know for a fact that it was Blizzard's fault.

Given this was a fresh install on a new system (I formatted and reinstalled the security personally), and we came back from vacation (net-free) only to find my sister's account was hacked, there was no question that this was on Blizzard's end.

Fact 1: The most lucrative form of computer crime existent today is by far without ANY debate, the violation of WoW accounts. Take any other form of computer crime, including hacked accounts for every other game put together, and it doesn't equal the amount of money made through keylogging WoW players.
I'd need some statistics on that if you're going to call it a fact.
I wouldn't discount the possibility, given that WoW is a multi-billion dollar franchise at his point, and the undisputed king of the MMO market (which itself is the King of Asian Gaming).

This simply establishes that there are criminals who have a high degree of incentive to hack WoW-accounts, which is true. Of course, seeing the direction D3 is going, the same sort of incentive exists there too thanks to the Auction House.

Fact 2: That means that these criminals can afford to bring on the best to deal with this situation. If you have a multi-billion dollar organized crime syndicate, you can afford to throw money at your business and expect a mighty return.
Yes, criminals exist and they are probably funded.

Fact 3: You don't even have to hire a top-notch cracker to do this job. If you throw enough money out there, at the right person, it becomes an inside job, and creating a backdoor is relatively speaking, a snap.
I'll address this later in my post.

Fact 4: The international nature of this type of crime makes prosecution and even investigation very difficult. Blizzard Activision has a lot of money, but they don't have Shadowrun Megacorp kinda money to throw at it, and they certainly can't afford to have international black-ops teams to dispense justice.
This is relevant in terms of eliminating offenders from the equation, but most private security firms focus exclusively on prevention rather than retaliation for that reason.
Unless they're attached to government agency.

Props to you for knowing about Shadowrun. I'm a huge fan of that series.

Blizzard can only do so much against the resources that are allayed against it--and the fact that they DO do what they can with the success they have is evidence enough that they're not buffoons about this.
The level of intrusion they recently received was extreme, and quite unacceptable.
No, I'm not solely blaming Blizzard for the work of criminals, but they do carry half the blame, because the moment they demanded that everyone connect to THEIR system was the moment they took full liability for anything that happens to said system.

Remember: All the breaches -except for 1- are all local to the user's computer. Blizzard can't stop that. What do you expect them to do, include an up-to-date of Norton with every subscription?
I get that keyloggers exist out there, really. I've had clients request that I troubleshoot computers only to find out it was just a keylogger (I'm freelance tech support and repair) and that they didn't want their boss or family to find out they done goofed.

To address Fact 3: How is "An inside job" local to the end user's computer? "Inside Job" to me means relative to the "Inside" of the system. Which means Blizzard's system, since they are the server and the clients are just that: Clients who remotely connect to the system.

Fact 4 is nebulous. An international hacker could attack either Blizzard or their end-users directly (and in fact, both have occurred, quite regularly). The nature of international law makes it difficult/impossible to extradite and prosecute the offenders, but is hardly exclusive to persecuting those who write and distribute keyloggers to end-users (usually via session hijacks or shady websites selling WoW-Gold).

Bibliotek said:
Will far from handwave that away, think you misunderstand what kind of person I am :D

You make some very valid points, and I do understand that many dislike this way of entertainment. Its the same feeling people have towards Dark Souls (not that the games can be compared); I see it as the best game ever made, yet others call it shit and give up before first boss.
Difficulty in gameplay primarily comes from three sources:
1) Tests against Player Skill (mechanical, reasoning, strategy)
2) Tests against Character Skill (non-randomized stats)
3) Tests of luck (randomized stat checks)

Dark Souls is an amplified form of 1) primarily. Another extreme example of 1 would be I Wanna Be The Guy.

The best games emphasize 1 while maybe dipping very slightly into 2 and 3.

Diablo 3 is built almost entirely around 3, using 2 as a backdrop to mark progress, and ignoring 1 almost completely (characters are effectively prebuilt, and strategy is minimized).

But games like D3 and Dark Souls is often about creating you own challenges. Using oddball specs and strange tacs and making it work is a hobby of mine, and D3 utilize that to the fullest.
So, variant play basically. I'm a big fan of variant play.
When I see arguments for/against the gameplay in Diablo 3, I'm arguing from the point of how Blizzard intended the game to be played.

Theres a reason I never go full defensive mode when someone bash D3, and thats because its full of flaws. But this patch fixed some of the major issues, and it will make my friends and me enjoy it even more. Therefore Im happy.
Then be happy. If you've found a way to enjoy an otherwise seriously flawed game, all the better for you.

PS: The AH fucked over the players, craving that everyone must learn to play "pretend wall street" to get decent gear. Luckily I enjoy it, but Its fucked to crave that people must play that minigame. Its not what they paid for
Yeah, that's the heart of the matter really. Blizzard has potential for a much better game if they didn't so heavily emphasize the Auction House.


Thread killer
Nov 20, 2009
Congratulations, Another step completed on the transition into more horrifically bad Ideas ripped from MMOs gone terribly wrong./eyeroll.

Seriously, this sounds like something out of Everquest circa 2003.

Didnt finish making the game? Just slap on some alternate advancement points and call it a day.

Theres simply not enough shame that needs to be distributed for the travesty blizzard has birthed.


New member
Dec 20, 2008
So, 300% of .0001 is still only .0003, right? Way to move that carrot Blizzard!

*rolls eyes*