Blizzard Working on "Balance Changes" for Overwatch's McCree

[ThatOtherGirl]

McCree is too good, you can tell simply by how often he is played and how he is played. Played too often, too effective. McCree is good enough that there is no 1v1 counter, not even a soft counter. At best there are skill match ups. The game is built on the idea of hard counters, there should not be a hero capable of dueling every other hero in the game without trouble.

Widowmaker has similar problems, she is just too good. There is no good counter against her, not even McCree (who, while the most obviously OP, is probably actually not quite as good.)

Bastion is so incredibly easy to counter it is silly. I don't think he is under powered, but he might be the most overused and misused hero in the game. Yes, he can kill an entire team on his own, if that other team does not expect it and they play bad. Not OP.

Lucio some see as overpowered. Right now choosing Lucio is never the wrong decision unless your team already has another Lucio, and even then sometimes not. But I think it is actually that he is 1 of 3 healers in the game. And Zenyata at the moment is hard countered by Widowmaker and is quite situational. So that basically leaves 2 healers for the majority of games, and Lucio is the one that always works. As we get more healers that fit niche scenarios better he will see less play.

D.Va needs a buff. Her kit is just weak and she doesn't make up for that with stats.

I think Mei needs to be just a bit more powerful. Not because she is weak, but because she does not easily slot into a good team role and this is a team game. The statistics demonstrate this as she is by far the least played hero. Since she does not slot in a role she needs to be a bit more powerful to make up for that.

Mercy needs a witch skin.

 

[hentropy]

As someone who has close to 20 hours into D.Va, I'm not sure what to think about any changes to her. She's a unique beast even for Overwatch, having two stages in and out of the mech. It's hard to say she's underpowered, but there are some frustrations. Buffing her might still make an experienced player like me overpowered, but that's kind of the point? I still see many people playing D.Va "wrong".

I would support buffing the range/damage on her cannons a little. D.Va's supposed to be the only tank that is a real counter to snipers and 1v1 attack flankers, but the cannons are so weak that even a widow can dispose of a full-health mech at short range. She can't hold a point/payload as well as some of the others due to her size in the mech, so it means the only thing she's truly "good" at it is chasing low health enemies and doing combined attacks. She's really good in the king of the hill matches in Ilios/Nepal/Lijiang (those sweet, sweet environmental kills) I find, but it takes a good amount of finesse in any other map. I feel like if you did up those cannons a bit, she'd be a force to be reckoned with beyond just players who put a lot of time in figuring out how to play her.

I don't think her durability should be tampered with, though. One of the tricks is learning how to play her out of the mech, and she can be quite good out as well. I've gone quite a few matches with no or very few deaths, and that doesn't usually spell durability problems. Focus on her damage in the mech.

And maybe, just maybe, pretty please, maybe, allow her shield to block that fucking riptire. I don't know how it can stop rockets but not a relatively slow-moving tire with some spiked on it. Even boosting straight up can't counter it well enough to save you. It's really my biggest gripe with the balancing the game, for a DEFENSE hero, that fucking tire is dumb. And it's the only reason there's always a Junkrat on every team ever, because they want to use that tire to insta-kill 2-4 people with no easy counter. Meanwhile everyone complains about Pharah's ult when she's so squishy and underpowered otherwise. Also, maybe have her shield stop Hanzo's ult? Being literally the only character that can would give more reason to play her.

my advice, if people are avoiding your meka explosions, is practice the "meteor" technique: boost almost directly upward in the direction of the enemy team, and activate your ult as you boost. if you do it right, your meka will arc (generally you wanna do this from behind cover) and if the enemy team doesn't see it before it lands they won't have enough time to escape since it's priming the explosion as it travels.

it's not foolproof, but it can work. you can also boost along the ground instead of into the air but that's probably more effective if you're sneaking up behind the enemy team, and have enough distance that the meka will blow up quickly once it reaches the enemy.

(tho i'm just basing this on PotGs/gifs i've seen of people doing this, since i don't play D.Va)

The "meteor" thing isn't a bad technique, but yeah, pretty much since the first couple weeks of the game, getting a kill with self-destruct can be quite difficult/dependent entirely on luck. Even doing all the tricksy things you can come up with, there's just too many little buildings and little walls you can hide behind to avoid it. If they took about a half-second off of the explode time it would make a world of difference in my mind.

As for McCree, which is ostensibly the topic of this article, I think he's actually pretty balanced. Someone has to be able to kill those fucking Reapers (other than Commander Shepard) and Genjis when they try to flank. Yeah if done right he can dispose of tanks even, but tanks have the best self-preservation techniques. I don't really see him as the biggest menace on the battlefield. Give Reaper 200hp or nerf him in some other way before fucking with McCree.

 

[saluraropicrusa]

And maybe, just maybe, pretty please, maybe, allow her shield to block that fucking riptire. I don't know how it can stop rockets but not a relatively slow-moving tire with some spiked on it. Even boosting straight up can't counter it well enough to save you. It's really my biggest gripe with the balancing the game, for a DEFENSE hero, that fucking tire is dumb. And it's the only reason there's always a Junkrat on every team ever, because they want to use that tire to insta-kill 2-4 people with no easy counter. Meanwhile everyone complains about Pharah's ult when she's so squishy and underpowered otherwise. Also, maybe have her shield stop Hanzo's ult? Being literally the only character that can would give more reason to play her.

the thing about Junkrat's tire is that it's pretty easy to destroy just by shooting it. not only that, it's loud, and there are plenty of ways to negate its damage (shield from Rein or Zarya, for example). Junkrat himself is also totally vulnerable during his ult, and i've definitely had times where i wasn't hidden well and ended up dead after the tire blew up.

i don't think Defense Matrix should be able to block Hanzo's dragons; it can already stop his ult completely if she blocks the arrow he fires before it becomes the dragons. i'm also hesitant to agree on it blocking the RIP-tire given how easy it is to avoid/destroy/negate it without that.

The "meteor" thing isn't a bad technique, but yeah, pretty much since the first couple weeks of the game, getting a kill with self-destruct can be quite difficult/dependent entirely on luck. Even doing all the tricksy things you can come up with, there's just too many little buildings and little walls you can hide behind to avoid it. If they took about a half-second off of the explode time it would make a world of difference in my mind.

yeah, her ult seems a bit too easy to escape, if only because (from what i've read) lampposts can block all its damage. it has a huge AoE and it's meant to be more area denial, but it's ridiculously easy to hide from and it's not easy to be sneaky with it.

Someone has to be able to kill those fucking Reapers (other than Commander Shepard) and Genjis when they try to flank.

Shepard OP, plz nerf.

 

[Newage]

I don't know how it can stop rockets but not a relatively slow-moving tire with some spiked on it. Even boosting straight up can't counter it well enough to save you. It's really my biggest gripe with the balancing the game, for a DEFENSE hero, that fucking tire is dumb. And it's the only reason there's always a Junkrat on every team ever, because they want to use that tire to insta-kill 2-4 people with no easy counter. Meanwhile everyone complains about Pharah's ult when she's so squishy and underpowered otherwise. Also, maybe have her shield stop Hanzo's ult? Being literally the only character that can would give more reason to play her.

Junkrat RIP-Tire counters : Junkrat grenades, Junrak concussion mine, pharah's rockets, Reinhardt's Fire Strike, Soldier 76's helix rockets, Widowmaker, Hanzo, Bastion in turret form. There's a bunch of counters for it, I just think expecting everyone to have one is foolish. As for the dragons, she can counter the initial arrow, and it will cancel the ult. Doesn't really make sense that it would counter the actual dragons though, as they're not projectiles.


McCree's problem is that he's just too good at killing everyone when you're talking about high level play (at least 1 McCree per teams, sometimes 2). His flashbang->fth->roll->fth does too much damage too quickly to offer the possibility for counter play (even for tanks. Reinhardt or Winston can't do much when they have < 100 hp after the first fan the hammer for example). melting tanks is not supposed to be his jb, Blizzard want him to be a dedicated counter-flanker (so killing Genji/Tracer/Reaper). And he doesn't need 420 damage in a second for that.

 

[Frankster]

I'd be more curious to see balance changes for Widow Maker, imo the further you level and play with high ranked people, the more games get dominated by which team has the best widow maker, and unlike Mc Cree, a good WM player is all but immune to her counters and can systematically wreck teams in the time it takes for a single Mc Cree to do his combo.

Not that I'm complaining if a Mc Cree can't easily kill me anymore when Im playing a tank.

Edit: Apparently in "pro" overwatch games, it's all dominated by widowmakers, 2x mc crees and both mercy+ lucio. So guess I got lucky with Mc Cree players so far, never felt I met one who single handedly dominated the game.

Junkrat himself is also totally vulnerable during his ult, and i've definitely had times where i wasn't hidden well and ended up dead after the tire blew up.

I feel this would be a more valid point if killing Junkrat also made the tire blow up. As it stands, a junkrat could be in the worst possible spot and about to die, but once he gets into that ulti animation and the tire is launched, it doesn't matter what happens to him anymore.
By your own admission you weren't hidden well, yet still you got away with using your ulti to full effect. That doesn't sound right to me but *shrugs*, don't see Junkrat as being OP so guess there's bigger fish to fry.

Also regarding EVA.. Her ulti was broken in beta because the huge radius went through walls, now that it doesn't, her ulti is kinda toothless. Just hide behind nearest corner and you'll be safe.

 

[hentropy]

the thing about Junkrat's tire is that it's pretty easy to destroy just by shooting it. not only that, it's loud, and there are plenty of ways to negate its damage (shield from Rein or Zarya, for example). Junkrat himself is also totally vulnerable during his ult, and i've definitely had times where i wasn't hidden well and ended up dead after the tire blew up.

Junkrat RIP-Tire counters : Junkrat grenades, Junrak concussion mine, pharah's rockets, Reinhardt's Fire Strike, Soldier 76's helix rockets, Widowmaker, Hanzo, Bastion in turret form. There's a bunch of counters for it, I just think expecting everyone to have one is foolish. As for the dragons, she can counter the initial arrow, and it will cancel the ult. Doesn't really make sense that it would counter the actual dragons though, as they're not projectiles.

Yes, the tire has counters, but also not really if the Junkrat knows what they're doing. The tire can last forever and climb over buildings. It can move right through Rein's shield as if it's not there, or just go around it. Only Zarya's shield can absorb the damage. Shooting at the tire and destroying it before it gets to you is only an option if it's visible. In most maps there's tons of little alleys and buildings to climb over. When it is visible, it's capable of jumping around moving unpredictably just as any character can, and it's smaller than most characters, so good luck pegging it with Widow if the Rat knows what they're doing. So basically, yes, you can kill it if it's out in the open and you have characters which have useful mid-to-long range weapons and have decent aim with them, and aren't currently being shot at by someone else or otherwise preoccupied. Yeah you can kill the Junkrat, oh unless they launch it from base which is literally impossible to get into, or some other hidey-hole only accessible by a few characters and way behind the front lines. The impact of it lasting forever shouldn't be understated either. Playing as Mei, I used a shield to block the tire, only to climb over it, I froze myself when it came close and he literally drove circles around me until it released.

It would be one thing if he was an Offense character, most of them have really powerful ults capable of killing a bunch of enemies at once, but for a so-called Defensive character, it's kinda BS. Even Bastion's ult doesn't last that long and can't curve behind walls and shields, and Hanzo's only goes in one direction.

yeah, her ult seems a bit too easy to escape, if only because (from what i've read) lampposts can block all its damage. it has a huge AoE and it's meant to be more area denial, but it's ridiculously easy to hide from and it's not easy to be sneaky with it.

Yeah you have a feeling that it was originally designed to be one of the more annoying and devastating ults in the game (reflected by how long it takes to charge, one of the longest in the game, plus D.Va doesn't do a whole lot of damage typically), but once most people got used to it all it does is clear an area for a few seconds. Even most points have walls and such you can hide behind to avoid it, so you don't even need to leave. There's no need to "Nerf This!" considering how it's not terribly great to begin with.

McCree's problem is that he's just too good at killing everyone when you're talking about high level play (at least 1 McCree per teams, sometimes 2). His flashbang->fth->roll->fth does too much damage too quickly to offer the possibility for counter play (even for tanks. Reinhardt or Winston can't do much when they have < 100 hp after the first fan the hammer for example). melting tanks is not supposed to be his jb, Blizzard want him to be a dedicated counter-flanker (so killing Genji/Tracer/Reaper). And he doesn't need 420 damage in a second for that.

I dunno, maybe it's just because I play classes that aren't as easy for him to kill so he's not a menace to me, but he doesn't seem that bad. He's only good going one-on-one or in the middle of a fray, if he gets outnumbered he dies in a second. I would be behind maybe nerfing the fan a bit so he can still kill Genji/Reaper/Tracer but not a tank so easily, or making it so combat roll doesn't auto-reload, but generally I think he's okay. Even his ult has more warning and is easier to avoid than most other Offense heroes.

 

[FrozenCones]

I'm not a McCree player, however, how much would it cripple him to remove the reload from the combat roll? If a stun and fan can unload 360 damage that is more than enough to counter most, if not all, non tank heroes.

As for D.Va, I believe it was an Overwatch Central video regarding the patch where they were throwing around the idea of reducing her mech headshot box, increasing her fusion cannon fire rate and increasing her movement speed while attacking. In my experience I don't feel her damage is lacking, moreso her quality of life.

 

[saluraropicrusa]

Yes, the tire has counters, but also not really if the Junkrat knows what they're doing. The tire can last forever and climb over buildings. It can move right through Rein's shield as if it's not there, or just go around it. Only Zarya's shield can absorb the damage. Shooting at the tire and destroying it before it gets to you is only an option if it's visible. In most maps there's tons of little alleys and buildings to climb over. When it is visible, it's capable of jumping around moving unpredictably just as any character can, and it's smaller than most characters, so good luck pegging it with Widow if the Rat knows what they're doing. So basically, yes, you can kill it if it's out in the open and you have characters which have useful mid-to-long range weapons and have decent aim with them, and aren't currently being shot at by someone else or otherwise preoccupied. Yeah you can kill the Junkrat, oh unless they launch it from base which is literally impossible to get into, or some other hidey-hole only accessible by a few characters and way behind the front lines. The impact of it lasting forever shouldn't be understated either. Playing as Mei, I used a shield to block the tire, only to climb over it, I froze myself when it came close and he literally drove circles around me until it released.

It would be one thing if he was an Offense character, most of them have really powerful ults capable of killing a bunch of enemies at once, but for a so-called Defensive character, it's kinda BS. Even Bastion's ult doesn't last that long and can't curve behind walls and shields, and Hanzo's only goes in one direction.

his tire absolutely doesn't last forever. in fact, it explodes on its own after ten seconds. Mei's Cryo-Freeze, on the other hand, only lasts four seconds. i'd also note that i've had an enemy Reinhardt successfully block my RIP-tire with his shield because i didn't get the drop on him and he moved/turned to stop me getting behind it.

it is a smaller target, but it also has less health than any character in the game. besides all that, any character with an ability that makes them more mobile (Widow's grappling hook, Junkrat's mine-jumps, Pharah's jetpack, etc) can easily escape the immediate area where the tire is. unless you're making yourself a high priority target, just getting to a hiding spot away from the point/payload/the rest of your team can keep you safe.