It was my impression that he was trying to pass it off as spirit bending when it wasn't. Obviously he can't tell people how he's actually doing it.Doom972 said:
Blood magic in Dragon Age - Your opinions
- Thread starter thejboy88
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I need to correct a mistake I made: It's called Energy Bending, not Spirit Bending. After rewatching some scenes and a Google search, I can only say that it's inconclusive. It seems like they never actually explain it, but it could be that he just uses Blood Bending to permanently block chakras. No official information is available so we can only speculate. The charkra blocking makes more sense though.DementedSheep said:
Lucky for you the whole practice is suicided out of existence! I agree it got a little ridiculous but I was just glad to see that was a core part of the Legend of Korra story, I too really like the blood bending and enjoyed seeing more of it even if it did get a little nuts. Now I hope they bring back that face stealing thing in part 2...IllumInaTIma said:
Assuming it's possible, you still hit the problem of blood magic being too easy to abuse. You won't even see it coming - a mage can literally steal your body and mind and you might not even notice. Mages aren't the most trusted individuals and giving them, essentially, cheat codes to people isn't a decision everybody is comfortable with. Like, nobody is. And there is the Chantry with "Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." - yeah, blood magic does deal with the whole "ruling over" stuff, I can't see them being happy, with them, the Templars, along with everybody, as I said.Thee Lost One said:
Well, it does seem to be based on the excesses of the Tevinter Imperium, in particular the corruption of the black city, which is kind of awesome idea to have there in the backstory.Chris Tian said:
Blood Mages roaming around in the wilderness hiding from the Templars.. probably not very much of a threat in the grand scheme of things. Blood Mages with access to vast armies of disposable slaves whom they can sacrifice at will.. Now all of a sudden they're punching holes in reality just so they can go flip off God for the lulz (and you know, cursing the entire world and leading to the deaths of millions in the process).
Lyrium is expensive, limited in supply and difficult to extract. People, however, are a renewable resource! The real power of blood magic seems to come into play once a blood mage has the ability to sacrifice large numbers of people, hence why I guess the "magic exists to serve man" mantra is so important.
Then there's the fact that standard Tevinter response to encountering resistance or rebellion back in the "good old days" seems to have been to summon a demon army to go stomp it (and in the process ravage the land, kill everyone living on it and defile everything they touch). You can see how that would leave a less than positive cultural legacy on the people who got stomped by demons.
Probably a bit rambly but whatever.Ed130 said:
This brings in the question, are demons totally necessary for learning blood magic? I know it's one way of learning it but there has to be more than one method. Sacrifices and contacting demons is a bad idea for anyone, not just mages, and it has been shown that non-mages can be possessed.
Due to being a place where magic users are collected and templars killing unsuccessful trainees in the harrowing which involves opening a little hole to send someone into it in the first place, the veil was already pretty thin in the tower, unless they were also going out of their way to repair any thinning they were causing but I never saw signs or mention of that. Uldred probably didn't have to do much to rip it open the rest of the way.
Huh, forgot Revenants were pride demons. Those guys can mess you up pretty good on any level.
Mages can explore the fade and contact demons, they just typically need lyrium or know some of the older elven magics to be able to do it. Blood is just a substitute not a new path entirely. I guess what's so scary about it in the end is that it's a shortcut, and most people willing to use one probably lack the training to handle the power that comes from that.
He didn't get the kid possessed, the kid did that to himself after that guy had been locked away for poisoning the king which is what he went there to do in the first place. He was hired by Logain to poison the Arl since Logain knew the Arlessa would hire an apostate. Him being a blood mage is entirely coincidental in that situation and changes very little about it.Kayevcee said:
The kid by all accounts shouldn't have had the power to reach into the fade yet, let alone contact a demon, but apparently Connor's stress was enough to get its attention and take over his body.
As many things as I dislike about DA2, I did like when you find out Malcom Hawke had to become a blood mage to seal demons and you hear his personal philosophy behind it as opposed to the one spouted by the chantry.
"My magic will serve that which is best in me, not that which is most base."
Only if you don't build for it. I basically sunk half my points into Constitution and the other into whatever gave me better spell damage. By the end of it my other guys were basically just ornaments since I could basically take on anything aside from bosses. And this is on Nightmare no less, hate to think how powerful a Blood Mage + Spirit Healer could be on an easier mode. Blood Magic was basically the most overpowered thing in the entire game. Get a bunch of spells that reserve mana, turn on blood mage mode, kill almost everything, turn off blood mage, heal, kill everything else.Anthony Corrigan said:
I still think this story would work even if Blood Magic weren't automatically a capital offense, punishable by death or the next best thing (being made tranquil). Its a far stretch from casting a few fireballs from your blood, to sacrificing armys of slaves to go and kick god in the balls.evilthecat said:
You are allowed to carry a sword, but not to stab everybody you meet willy nilly. That seems like a comparable thing to me.
I don't think its harder to get vast quantitys of lyrium than to get a slave army you can sacrifice at will. You find Lyrium Potions and raw lyrium left and right throughout both games, slaves not so much.
And even if it were, its still no real reason to outlaw blood magic completely just because it can be misused, almost everything can get misused, especially all kinds of magic. A mage could just summon a firestorm in the middle of the marketsquare and kill houndreds of people, but despite that magic is not completely outlawed.
I get your point and I don't think its illogical or anything how BM gets treatet by society in Dragon Age. I just think the story, backstory and lore could still have worked if Bioware would have decided to let the DA society treat Blood Magic more like a frowned upon and heavily restricted practice, instead of an outright capital crime.
That way they would have avoided the big discrepancy between story and gameplay DA has now.
On the other hand they could have made Blood Magic unavailable to the player/companions.
Either way, this seems like a big flaw that could have easily been avoided, that is what stumpes me.
Well, that I would be true I guess if not for one of the other attributes of blood magic, which is that blood mages can control minds. How do you police someone who can potentially make their own supervisors into willing slaves?Chris Tian said:
And we probably need to stress something here. Blood magic is a capital crime in the circle. In the Tevinter Imperium, it's not just acceptable but pretty much necessary for survival. Among the Dalish, it's extremely frowned upon but not a capital crime. In the Grey Wardens, it's simply seen as a tool. While there are some situations which might arise in the game which don't make sense, there are plenty which would arise even without blood magic (like Templars mysteriously not noticing that Morrigan is an apostate even when she's using magic in front of them).
Remember that bit where slavers are basically rounding up the entire population of the elven Alienage and shipping them to Tevinter? The reason we don't see many slaves, I suspect, is because neither game has gone into much detail regarding society in Tevinter.Chris Tian said:
From dialogue, it seems that a significant proportion of the population of Tevinter appears to be composed of slaves in the service of blood mages, and indeed we do see a few examples of magisters being perfectly willing to sacrifice slaves as a cheap, expendable power source for spells.
Tevinter society is an interesting example of what happens when blood magic is effectively legal, and it's not pretty. Even without the enormous bloodbath-level mass sacrifices, demon armies and the whole dooming the world thing.
There are plenty of characters in the Dragon Age games who argue that it should be.Chris Tian said:
That probably would have been my preferred option.Chris Tian said:
In particular, it really sucked in origins that blood magic was the only offensive casting specialization in the core game.
DA2 seemed to have a much clearer idea that mages should be casters first and foremost, hence they gave us force mage (a cool idea and a very powerful offensive specialization which synergized very well with the offensive mage powers). I would have liked to see more of that and more specializations built on that kind of idea, rather than giving us a fairly tokenistic version of blood magic.
It would probably have been the easiest option too, just make 4 new spells. That could easily have been done even late in the development. They wouldn't have to change dialouge or Codex entrys or anything.evilthecat said:
And you are right that it was a shitty decision to make BM the only offensive caster spec. If you want to roleplay a good guy offensive caster you are kinda out of luck, since BM is sort of seen like the gateway to vilianhood.
They should have made some elemental master spec that augments the direct damage spells, or something else down a more neutral route storywise.
I'm seriously baffled that anyone could think the Blood Mage spec wasn't stupidly OP. Combine it with Arcane Warrior and you win. Your AW passives that turn you invincible all draw from your mana, BM gives you a cast pool from your health (which is essentially unaffected by anything other than your casting due to your tank status), then you just use the BM AOE paralyze/damage and finish everything off up close. Now, you can solo the game on Nightmare like that, but it gets better. There's a spell in the BM tree which lets you feed off the health of your allies, which means if you pop Alistair as a second tank you can leech off him if ever you need an extra boost (but unless you screw up, you won't), then put in Wynne to heal Alistair if you ever drain his health too much, and you've essentially got an infinite pool of health and casting that the enemies can't actually damage. Then you can just run around as the single best tank in the game who can never be hurt, locking down entire enemy groups with your epic crowd control and jumping from bad guy to bad guy by finishing off everyone with your melee.
BM/AW breaks the game. I had an easier time with that build soloing Nightmare than I did a tank Warrior build on Easy. If you don't think it's useful, you didn't use it right.
BM/AW breaks the game. I had an easier time with that build soloing Nightmare than I did a tank Warrior build on Easy. If you don't think it's useful, you didn't use it right.
I accept the idea that it couldn't be as powerful mechanically than it was in the lore. It'd be utterly imbalanced; a weakling like Jowain dabbled in the stuff, and one attack from it leveled a room filled with templars, including a knight commander and the first enchanter. Imagine the effect that would have with a competent mage.
Basically, story and gameplay segregation. I love the idea, honestly. Forbidden super magic powered by the energy of life itself. It's not even evil in and of itself (although acquiring it might be, given that there's few to no legitimate avenues for learning it save the hypocritical use of phylacteries). Sacrificing your own energy to save an ally happened quite a bit in my run through, and that's hardly evil. It's a tool, the only evil is in how you might use it.
Basically, story and gameplay segregation. I love the idea, honestly. Forbidden super magic powered by the energy of life itself. It's not even evil in and of itself (although acquiring it might be, given that there's few to no legitimate avenues for learning it save the hypocritical use of phylacteries). Sacrificing your own energy to save an ally happened quite a bit in my run through, and that's hardly evil. It's a tool, the only evil is in how you might use it.
In DA:O Blood Magic was, as many have said, the second best specialization for a mage, second only to Arcane Warrior. It provided most-everything that a mage could possibly want: a secondary spellcasting resource, a self-heal (albeit at the cost of an ally's health), a HUGE AOE stun with good damage, and a controlling spell that locked down the enemy if it failed. When combined with the Arcane Warrior there was nothing left for the enemy to do except die. I haven't finished DA2 yet, so I can't comment on how Blood Magic works there.
As to the morality of Blood Magic in the Dragon Age universe, I can't quite say. Certainly it has a corrupting influence, but is that the fault of the power itself, or of the people who wield it? I would argue the latter because we have examples of people who have used Blood Magic without succumbing to monstrous depravity, Jowan being the one at the forefront. Blood Magic is a tool, and a dangerous one too, but I can't see how it's more inherently evil than any other form of magic.
As to the morality of Blood Magic in the Dragon Age universe, I can't quite say. Certainly it has a corrupting influence, but is that the fault of the power itself, or of the people who wield it? I would argue the latter because we have examples of people who have used Blood Magic without succumbing to monstrous depravity, Jowan being the one at the forefront. Blood Magic is a tool, and a dangerous one too, but I can't see how it's more inherently evil than any other form of magic.
It's not theory that Humans can teach blood magic, but if it were accepted and regulated, the Knowledge on how to steal minds and shit? that can be controlled knowledge, or outright locked down and not taught. Demon's have no issue just dumping that on whoever asks, makes their efforts to steal bodies easier. If the mage circle leaders taught Blood magic to experienced mages who taught it out, they could teach them the forms that boost other magics, making healing more potent or giving more oomph or control. Any magic can be abused, it's a Tool. The problem is how people are being taught to use it rather than what it can do.DoPo said:
Mechanically it was meh. Storywise a couple characters demonstrasted the ability of mind control with it, so there's yoru controversy right there.
I highlighted the parts of this argument that make the least sense. Blood Magic already isn't taught by any Circle. You're arguing that they should teach Blood Magic to mages as a method to control Blood Magic so people can't learn Blood Magic? I see a bit of a problem there.Thee Lost One said:
As a secondary aside, Blood Magic runs counter to healing magic, so you can't really use it to improve healing spells, unless the target is the blood mage themselves, and even then it comes at the cost of another person nearby.
That aside, Blood Magic can and has been taught by humans to other humans. Using demons to learn Blood Magic is one way to do it, but it isn't the only way. Archon Darinius taught his followers Blood Magic after uniting Tevinter and creating the Imperium.
Your argument of teaching it to more experienced mages trusting that they will act responsibly also falls flat when there is plenty of evidence as to what would happen in that situation. I doubt I need remind you of Uldred's attempted coup of the Circle in Ferelden in DA:O.
Claiming that Blood Magic is just another tool, as apt to be abused as any other form of magic is the most credible argument that you've put forward, but it still has its shortcomings. You can say that any form of magic can be abused, but Blood Magic is designed to be abused. Its spells focus on manipulating the mind and body and making pacts with demons. Now, morally ambiguous person that I am, I can say that this could be a worthwhile pursuit provided that necessay and proper precautions were taken, however, playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, the realm of Blood Magic isn't just dangerous, it's downright unholy I don't think you can get around that. Yes, power corrupts, but there is a difference between that and a power that is corruption itself. We can trust mortal men, in most cases, to act responsibly with a given degree of power. We can even trust most people with a great degree of power provided that proper checks were in place. We cannot trust most people with a huge degree of power that invites the destruction of their souls and the very foundation of their being.
As a gameplay mechanic, they shouldn't have made it playable. It was fun, it was strong(but balanced), but they had to make it balanced, and that doesn't make sense since it was so powerful an apprentice mage could overwhelm the senior enchanter and the Templar high commander and half a dozen templar flunkies.
As a part of the game it was really cool, it allowed the chantry's obsessive control of the mages to make sense, and it also allowed the player to see how deals with demons can be tempting and dangerous without turning the player into an abomination.
As a part of the game it was really cool, it allowed the chantry's obsessive control of the mages to make sense, and it also allowed the player to see how deals with demons can be tempting and dangerous without turning the player into an abomination.