BNP Protests

mshcherbatskaya

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Feb 1, 2008
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A friend of mine once pointed out that whatever the limitations of the US two-party system, the barrier to multi-party democracy it creates does keep the wingnuts out of the government. Without a (somewhat) viable political party, the sorts of organizations that would spawn an American version of the BNP remain fractured, though the underground connections are very active. They also become nascent domestic terrorist organizations complete with bombings and assasinations. That doesn't get into the news much, and when it does, the domestic terrorists usually get framed as lone wackos. This conceals the extent of America's domestic terrorism potential, but it also keeps members of the general public from finding someone to rally around.

Actual fascist ideology (which has never really been fully defined, though there is a Communist Manifesto-type Doctrine of Fascism that came out of the Italian Fascist movement) has some variants, but from what I've read (and I don't just mean Wikipedia) they do seem to share certain features, aside from the from single-party statism that puts national sovereignty over personal freedom.

--An obsession with purity, racial, cultural, and social.

--A belief in a Golden Age of sorts, in which the purity of the nation was intact and the nation was stronger and more prosperous. The shattering of this idyllic unity is generally blamed on some easily identified demographic groups (immigrants, Jews, homosexuals) and some very vaguely defined cultural trends (liberalism, socialism, multi-culturalism). Fascist campaigns often appeal to the idea that the nation can return to this Golden Age (which never existed) by unifying and purifying itself.

--A certain level of anti-corporate populism that blames "decadent capitalism" for profiteering, exploiting or abandoning the "pure" group, and entangling the economy with other impure societies. This false populism is where a lot of their appeal to the general public comes in. "Decadent capitalism" also encourages consumer concepts of individualism and will introduce impurities into the culture for profit, so if you have a beef with the actions of major corporations, the fascists are more than happy to rant about it for you.

--An imperialist drive. While this used to mean geographical expansion, I think current fascism would tend more towards an informal empire, with the state "protecting its interests abroad."

--A belief that the nation is constantly under threat of attack from within and without, leading to a police state internally and a militaristic approach to foreign policy.

--A high degree of regulation of individual behavior, as the individual must always suborn their rights to the state.


The US keeps manifesting components of fascism here and there, but never seems to get them all going at the same time. The two most likely reasons beyond the two-party system, in my opinion - it's hard to get overt racists elected when you have a large immigrant population, and it takes an astounding amount of money to get elected, even to local office, and most of that money comes from "decadent capitalism". When you are a transnational corporation, true nationalism, fascist or socialist, is generally bad for business. Nationalists tend to, well, nationalize important stuff, like the oil supply for instance (yes, Hugo Chavez, we are talking about you) in order to secure their position on the world stage. Then you have to fund a revolution, because a single-party government can't really be voted out, and that's such a pain, and expensive too.

If you look at the rise of fascism in various nations, it does seem to pop up when you have a combo of economic failure, military failure, and a weak government, particularly with a weak leader. Fascism's success does seem to hinge on the cult of personality inspired by its leader - Hitler (arguable, I suppose), Mussolini, Franco. In Japan's pre-WWII fascist movement, it wasn't the cult of personality of the leader itself, but the divinity of the Emperor that filled this role.
 

new_age_reject

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Dec 28, 2008
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As much as I hate the BNP this is not the way to protest.
Attacking someone like that will only lead other simple minds to have sympathy for him and open themselves to his twisted ideals.
 

Simalacrum

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Apr 17, 2008
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as much as we hate the BNP, i'm afraid its a democracy - they have a right to free speech, we can't do much about them. Just wait until they do something obviously against human rights (instead of just ranting about it), THEN use that as backup and legally take them down.
 

FinalGamer

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Mar 8, 2009
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I still can't believe the BNP get two seats in the EU.
It's insane, I mean that's just asking for trouble and everytime someone non-British and/or non-white opens their mouths they won't listen to them at all, it's pointless.
And they're hypocrites too, they actually have at least three non-white people in their higher ranks, one of them being half-Turkish Cypriot.
Seriously, they can't even stick to their own fucking principles, that's pathetic. And they are fascists because their beliefs reflect such.
They're "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948" as well as "firm but voluntary incentives for immigrants and their descendants to return home."

How nice, and I have a Greek grandmother so this hits a little close.
Admittedly they're not a violent party like the Neo-Nazis or so, but nevertheless a threat to the stability of Britain and I guess Europe now.
Oh and let's not forget the current leader being a close friend of an Italian terrorist who may have been part of the Bologna Massacre.
So yeah, this is all nice. Oh and they have a Young BNP group, could have just called them BNP Youths to be snappier but oh well.
And naturally they're against homosexuals and their site lists them in the same ranking as murderers, rapists and paedophiles.
Fun times, guys, fun times. At least you can't join the police or prison services here if you're a member of the BNP.

Now I'm gonna admit, everyone has the right of free speech, but nobody should be in a position to restrain free speech from others they do not like for ethnicity, gender or orientation.
 

mshcherbatskaya

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Feb 1, 2008
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Historically, successful fascist movements hinge on the cult of personality generated around their leader. Don't kill him. Don't ban him. Just let him get old hat. Let the media get bored and wander off to stick a camera in someone else's face. He'll fade and his party will fade with him. They won't totally disappear of course, but it's good to have a political bogeyman lurking around in the background. It keeps the electorate on their toes and keeps civil rights activists motivated.
 

Bagaloo

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Sep 17, 2008
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Free speech and all that. Everyone should ease off with the "Lets silence / muder the BNP" arguments. You start limiting their speech, you push us all down a slippery slope.

You might not agree with them. But apparently, some people do. And people are entitled to their own opinions.
 

murphy7801

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Apr 12, 2009
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bnp its shame people vote for them i mean they once said used pictures from the second world war showing how great, Britain was saying want be proud of are fight against Nazis some bollocks basically.

Now i have never been more offended in my life these people died to fight fascism not support that is insult to every British soldiers to die in the war.

bnp should not be allowed into government we dissolved there last incarnation the nation front get rid of the bnp its not right that there allowed to sit in parliament.
 

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
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Apr 1, 2009
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Whatever, just wash your hands.
next time pelt them with eggs filled with shit
 

Ultrajoe

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Apr 24, 2008
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mshcherbatskaya said:
Historically, successful fascist movements hinge on the cult of personality generated around their leader. Don't kill him. Don't ban him. Just let him get old hat. Let the media get bored and wander off to stick a camera in someone else's face. He'll fade and his party will fade with him. They won't totally disappear of course, but it's good to have a political bogeyman lurking around in the background. It keeps the electorate on their toes and keeps civil rights activists motivated.
In a stunning display of Irony, i'm going to use a quote from V himself: Ideas are Bulletproof.

Can't agree with Msh's comments enough. Don't make a martyr of this mook, give him the fair and decent chance to screw himself over, and he will.
 

mshcherbatskaya

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Feb 1, 2008
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Ultrajoe said:
mshcherbatskaya said:
Historically, successful fascist movements hinge on the cult of personality generated around their leader. Don't kill him. Don't ban him. Just let him get old hat. Let the media get bored and wander off to stick a camera in someone else's face. He'll fade and his party will fade with him. They won't totally disappear of course, but it's good to have a political bogeyman lurking around in the background. It keeps the electorate on their toes and keeps civil rights activists motivated.
In a stunning display of Irony, i'm going to use a quote from V himself: Ideas are Bulletproof.

Can't agree with Msh's comments enough. Don't make a martyr of this mook, give him the fair and decent chance to screw himself over, and he will.
I'm totally serious about the bogeyman thing, by the way. I've spent enough time on the Left to know that trying to organize anything within it is like herding cats, and coalition politics break into factionalism at the drop of a hacky-sack. If you don't give them a reason to FOCUS! they start picking fights with each other.

And I grew up within the Religious Right (which is the base of conservative political action in the US) to know that having the church as a base gives them a real organizing edge, but their religious rigidity excludes a lot of people who would otherwise support their causes.

This isn't the right word for it, but I'm ...impressed? by the ability of the EU to occasionally put their nutters in office. But that actually seems to be the end of them, because they get in the international news for espousing facepalming ideas, and the country gets all embarrassed and doesn't re-elect them. In the US, we periodically elect really embarrassing people, but we tend to do dipshits instead wingnuts. Neither the Far Left or the Far Right in the US has generated a really charismatic figure in the last 40 years. The closet we have are Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore, the hateful windbag and the sly demagogue, and both of them make me want to beat them unconscious with a shoe.
 

Gooble

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May 9, 2008
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The Volume said:
Gooble said:
But seriously, I'm all for free speech and political freedom, but if I was in Government I'd make it my sole objective to ban the BNP.
So you're all for free speech unless some one disagrees with you?
No, I'm all for free speech as long as it does not imply severe, actual discrimination against certain groups.