BNP Protests

[Rajin Cajun]

I love all the nubs saying suppress the BNP....yes because suppressing Political Movements squashes them. Tell that to the Weimar Republic when it tried to squash the NSDAP didn't work for them either.

Having studied Nazi Germany and Weimar for over 3 years I can say that the Nazi rise was complete chance - there were so many lucky breaks or ill-informed people. They were the reasons they rose to the power they did; among other factors. Today however people are far better informed regarding politics and despite the current recession Wall street has not crashed...

As am I but the banning of the NSDAP was a major turning point that helped solidify it. You just defeated the point of banning them though by saying people are better educated so what would be the point of banning them again? Also the NSDAP were not fascists which is something you should know if you studied them. The NSDAP was a hodge podge of ideas that borrowed from Revolutionary Socialism to Fascism. They had little in common with the Fascist Parties in Austria, Netherlands or Italy because none of them were racialist in nature. In fact the Dutch National Socialist Party allowed Jews into the party until they were conquered by the Third Reich.

 

[Oldmanwillow]

I hate it when people say stuff like this. Where the hell as that ever worked! The BNP are obviously morons who no one will actually vote for but they are still going to continue to spread all their hateful crap to anybody, including children through their newly founded BNP Youth (like the scouts for racists).

Ignoring them is simply not enough to silence them, I'm sorry to say this but some people just don't have the right to free speech.

First off fuck you. We all have the right to freedom of speech and this shouldn't be infringed in ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM. I dont approve of racism but i will allow a racist to express his ideas. I will debate him though showing him the error of his ways and showing other people not to follow him.

People do not have the right to not be offended. I get offended by socialist's (i am a libertarian) but i will not try and shut them up. They have every right to speak there mind just like I have the right to debate them.

If outlaw the BNP you will just force them under ground and they will fight the government (remember the IRA people). This will create a lot more problems for your country then just people getting offended at others speech.

If people want to get ride of the party you should debate them rationally and when you win (logic will always beat racists) less and less people will vote for them. That simple.

FREE SPEECH IS AN MUST IN ANY FREE SOCIETY. HOW ANYONE COULD SAY WE DONT HAVE A RIGHT TO IT IS WAY BEYOND ME.

We can sumerise and stop this post with one simple thing, we dont have a written law or protection for free speech in Britain period, we do have laws for discrimination and racial language and legal punishments and frankly I prefer it that way. Complete free speech is like giving a gun to a baby most people are too stupid to deserve it.

That makes me really sad that there isnt a free speech law in England. I will never live there then. I dont care that if most people are too stupid to handle free speech, Because if you saying something really stupid it ends up hurting you. So the people that it hurts the most when racist comments are made are the racist themselves.

Tell me why should we defend people from themsleves?

 

[D_987]

I love all the nubs saying suppress the BNP....yes because suppressing Political Movements squashes them. Tell that to the Weimar Republic when it tried to squash the NSDAP didn't work for them either.

Having studied Nazi Germany and Weimar for over 3 years I can say that the Nazi rise was complete chance - there were so many lucky breaks or ill-informed people. They were the reasons they rose to the power they did; among other factors. Today however people are far better informed regarding politics and despite the current recession Wall street has not crashed...

As am I but the banning of the NSDAP was a major turning point that helped solidify it. You just defeated the point of banning them though by saying people are better educated so what would be the point of banning them again? Also the NSDAP were not fascists which is something you should know if you studied them. The NSDAP was a hodge podge of ideas that borrowed from Revolutionary Socialism to Fascism. They had little in common with the Fascist Parties in Austria, Netherlands or Italy because none of them were racialist in nature. In fact the Dutch National Socialist Party allowed Jews into the party until they were conquered by the Third Reich.

I don't recall ever calling for the banning of the party...?

I thought we were talking about if the BNP are fascist or not?

Regardless your right in some respects, but the NSDAP were certainly fascists - they ran a totalitarian society for crying out loud...

 

[Insanum]

A facist is someone who is incapeable of seeing someone else opinion and arguement. So Mr Protesters, Take a look at yourselves before going.

Now - The BNP - I dont support them, but they entitled to run for govt, Just dont vote for them, Thus is the joy of democracy.

 

[shadowstriker86]

lol. thats all that needs to be said.

 

[D.C.]

They havent released any world domination plans and promoton of the destruction of democracy in favour of a police state........ yet

so by the definition of fascism .. they arnt fascists.....yet.

No, but they only acknowledge the rights of anyone who isn't UK born and 100% white because they are legally obliged to...

Dont get me wrong im not denying the BNP is a party of awfull people... I agree with you, im just trying to define that the BNP is not a fascist party just a rascist one.

According to Google:

Fascism is a totalitarian nationalist and corporatist ideology. It is primarily concerned with perceived problems associated with cultural, economic, political, and social decline or decadence.

So the BNP are fascist; they have a very similar view to the Nazis on all these points - one of the large fascist governments.

Totalitarian is a one party, police state where everything is controlled.
Nationalist yes the BNP are this, theres no denying it.
Corporatist, well labour are using corporativism now without actually calling it corporativism and i havent heard much of the BNP's economic policies to comment on this.

So yes the BNP draw some parallels to basic fascist ideas but they're not Totalitarian hence they are not Fascists, the BNP is just an awful rascist democratic party.

Oh and if you're going to argue that they are fascist do not point to the Nazis.. the Nazis grouping is its own type Nazism. Nazism is a spin off from Fascism just like Stalinsm Communism is a spin off from true communism.
Please use the original Fascist State: Italy. Mussolini invented Fascism and his ideas and definition should be used as to what Fascism actually is.

/rant


P.S. Im no more pro BNP than the next decent guy.. Ive just been studying Fascism in theroy andpractice for the last 4 years and it gets me irate when people label a party as Fascist when they arnt.

 

[benylor]

A truly tolerant society cannot, must not, tolerate the intolerant. For the intolerant will, given the opportunity, make the society intolerant.

Freedom of expression must be preserved and sacrosant. It is the single most important philosophical idea of a free society.

The correct way to approach this is to educate to insulate the public from this corruption, and to confront it wherever it rears its head. They must be allowed to speak their piece, but their argument must be dismantled and rebutted. Violence is not the right way to deal with this.

The only time violence is the acceptible way to deal with bigots, is as a protective measure. Provoking it and counter-attacking is fine, as happened with the national front marches in the 70s(?), but pelting with eggs is dangerous. It justifies a similar response to less hateful initiatives later, and, besides, it does not address the argument at all.

 

[Computer-Noob]

Y'know. I'm all for anti-immigration. But then theres just pure racism. I mean, I don't want to be supporting hitler, but I don't want to be supporting immigration either. Why isn't there a midway agreement?

^^This
Plus i think it is really ironic of those who threw the eggs were displaying the sort of intolerance and ignorance of another's views that they are supposedly campaigning against. If you don't like the BNP, (I, for one, am not a fan) then just ignore them and vote for another party

I hate it when people say stuff like this. Where the hell as that ever worked! The BNP are obviously morons who no one will actually vote for but they are still going to continue to spread all their hateful crap to anybody, including children through their newly founded BNP Youth (like the scouts for racists).

Ignoring them is simply not enough to silence them, I'm sorry to say this but some people just don't have the right to free speech.

Or at least, they shouldn't. This kind of intolerance is just retarded, and utterly sickening. It sickens me to know that people use a democratic practice that is freedom of speech in order to justify and excuse the saying of such senseless hatred.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I love all the nubs saying suppress the BNP....yes because suppressing Political Movements squashes them. Tell that to the Weimar Republic when it tried to squash the NSDAP didn't work for them either.

Having studied Nazi Germany and Weimar for over 3 years I can say that the Nazi rise was complete chance - there were so many lucky breaks or ill-informed people. They were the reasons they rose to the power they did; among other factors. Today however people are far better informed regarding politics and despite the current recession Wall street has not crashed...

As am I but the banning of the NSDAP was a major turning point that helped solidify it. You just defeated the point of banning them though by saying people are better educated so what would be the point of banning them again? Also the NSDAP were not fascists which is something you should know if you studied them. The NSDAP was a hodge podge of ideas that borrowed from Revolutionary Socialism to Fascism. They had little in common with the Fascist Parties in Austria, Netherlands or Italy because none of them were racialist in nature. In fact the Dutch National Socialist Party allowed Jews into the party until they were conquered by the Third Reich.

I don't recall ever calling for the banning of the party...?

I thought we were talking about if the BNP are fascist or not?

Regardless your right in some respects, but the NSDAP were certainly fascists - they ran a totalitarian society for crying out loud...

Incorrect, if that was the only criteria then the USSR was fascist. D.C. gives the proper explanation of Fascism the NSDAP was never fascist nor did they ever claim to be. They didn't have much in the way of anything in common with Fascist Italy they didn't support Corporatism in fact Hitler favored a Free Market with moderate regulation. Also Fascism did not support racialism but supported Nationalism the NSDAP was quite Internationalist because they used it to justify Sudetenland and other lands that had Germans in it being reabsorbed by the Reich.

 

[Kinguendo]

You have to admit though, Nick Griffith is silver-tongued.

Yeah, he did marvelous work when he LICKED MY BALLS!

 

[Kinguendo]

I don't know if the BNP are fascists or not. I don't think they are...

They quite clearly are...

They havent released any world domination plans and promoton of the destruction of democracy in favour of a police state........ yet

so by the definition of fascism .. they arnt fascists.....yet.

Actually there are quite a few members (councilers even) that think they should remove democratic choice and some think they should by-pass it all together but obviously they arent strong enough to do the latter.

 

[Lord George]

I love all the nubs saying suppress the BNP....yes because suppressing Political Movements squashes them. Tell that to the Weimar Republic when it tried to squash the NSDAP didn't work for them either.

Having studied Nazi Germany and Weimar for over 3 years I can say that the Nazi rise was complete chance - there were so many lucky breaks or ill-informed people. They were the reasons they rose to the power they did; among other factors. Today however people are far better informed regarding politics and despite the current recession Wall street has not crashed...

As am I but the banning of the NSDAP was a major turning point that helped solidify it. You just defeated the point of banning them though by saying people are better educated so what would be the point of banning them again? Also the NSDAP were not fascists which is something you should know if you studied them. The NSDAP was a hodge podge of ideas that borrowed from Revolutionary Socialism to Fascism. They had little in common with the Fascist Parties in Austria, Netherlands or Italy because none of them were racialist in nature. In fact the Dutch National Socialist Party allowed Jews into the party until they were conquered by the Third Reich.

I don't recall ever calling for the banning of the party...?

I thought we were talking about if the BNP are fascist or not?

Regardless your right in some respects, but the NSDAP were certainly fascists - they ran a totalitarian society for crying out loud...

There not really truly Fascist, more the there more nationalist if anything, a shame as a true fascist party could really help the country at this time, but these loads of racist nutters aren't going to help anybody.

 

[Deef]

Racism much?
It's actually scary how people can get behind a cause like the BNP.

 

[D.C.]

Actually there are quite a few members (councilers even) that think they should remove democratic choice and some think they should by-pass it all together but obviously they arent strong enough to do the latter.

Ahh i had not heard about these people.. Those people are indeed Fascists then.. as for the whole party i still believe it isnt.

 

[Ultrajoe]

They havent released any world domination plans and promoton of the destruction of democracy in favour of a police state........ yet.

Read their plans for the police force. Really, go to their website and read it.

It talks a lot about 'freeing the police from the political shackles' and 'removing the 'rights' of prisoners in favor of the rights of victims'

 

[Ultrajoe]

e) Is it just me or does Nick Griffin look like a bad Doctor Who special effect (New series, although he does look like an old series Sontaran )

He gave an interview with big ben in the background and it's scarily like Luis Protherow from V for Vendetta

 

[Zombie_Fish]

The BNP stand for more than just anti-immigration:

They want to ban homosexuality.
They want to take UK out of the EU, despite the money we recieve from the EU being necessary for our economy.
They plan to just send asylum seekers back to their home countries as soon as they arrive.
And they want to brink back National Service and the Draft.

The only reason Britain voted for them in the European elections is because they're not a mainstream party and the mainstream parties are being hated right now.

As for the egging, this is going to go badly wrong for the organisation running the protest as they stand for free speech yet are denying Nick Griffin his. As much as I hate to say it, it is hypocrisy and they are digging themselves a big hole by doing it.

 

[bodyklok]

While I hate the BNP and support the message of the protesters, I'm angered and appalled by these protests. Britain is a democracy, everyone should be able to express their views without fear of being attacked. No compromise, no exceptions. And I'm disappointed that the police, who have a heavy presence around the houses of parliament, did nothing to stop the protests. They have duty to the public, that includes members of the BNP, and they made no effort to carry out that duty. Further more, I think the protests were counter productive giving the letting Nick Griffin appear as a martyr, thus increasing his popularity among his constituents.

Huh. I'd have been happy to chuck my own


at 'em.

That made me lol a little.