Bullying: Stop the complaining.

[Filiecs]

Verbal harassment is something that you can shield yourself against and is something that, in addition to telling an authority figure, is something that someone should emotionally brace themselves against. There is a very fine line between someone trying to cause you harm with constant degradation and harassment and you simply being offended.

Physical bullying, on the other hand, I believe is completely unacceptable. The moment a bully takes, breaks, or harms something of yours/you in any way I believe it is vital that you seek out as many authority figures as you can.
Going to authority is NOT being a coward or not dealing with it yourself. Trying to fight back rarely works out for the better and usually ends up with both of you in trouble.

The key point in the issue, however, is learning to talk to authority figures. Many children are intimidated by authority because their parents see it as the school's job to teach their kids/doctors job to keep their kid healthy etc. and do very little to show their child that in order to get what you need you need to learn how to communicate with authority figures. In this day and age those who are willing to ask favors from authority, are assertive, and are inspired by those with more power/talent than them are the most likely to succeed. (It's why most manager positions are not given to a long term employee but, instead, to those who apply for it. Even if the manager has never worked with the company before.) Aka those with a little bit of entitlement.

If you try and deal with a bully yourself, both of you will probably end up hurt.
If you go to an authority figure and demand help then you not only command respect from the authority figure but also solve your problem without any violence. That respect can, in turn, be used for additional favors.

 

[Strazdas]

Bullying is really nothing worth worrying about as long as the parents are there to support the kids. Frankly, the kids need to learn to take a beating and definitely know how to dish one out. If someone bullies you, you knock their ass to the floor and make sure that you knock 'em hard enough to where it's not too serious, but that they've learned their lesson. I've had several instances throughout my life where people tried to bully me, and every time it happened, all I had to do was beat 'em back far enough to know not to mess with me. As for what I think about it overall, it's a problem that's existed since the dawn of man and it's not going away anytime soon. You've just gotta teach the kids to hit for the nads, nose, and neck to be able to protect themselves.

So how about i "ddish one out" to you so your brain starts working? does that work to you? no you dont like that?

 

[Risu3]

Well, with me it eventually came to a fight- obviously I got pummelled by the rugby captain in the lower year who weighed about three times more than me, (I weighed about 7 stone at that time). Personally I think it was a key factor in why I developed epilepsy a couple of months later (Been seizure free for about 2 years tho so happy ending). Teachers never really stepped in, but it pretty much stopped after that, apart from for about six months I was the guy who got beaten up by a kid in the lower year, instead of the guy who got beat up by the rugby captain ¬_¬

Guy got kicked out of the school a couple of years later for using steroids or something though, so I call that a win!

 

[SlaveNumber23]

All kids should just toughen up and stand up for themselves? Generally a bully is going to pick a target who is physically weaker than them so I'd say in a lot of cases this simply isn't an option, considering the bully probably isn't going to listen to reason either and most kids lack the charisma to talk the bully out of it. Also I'd say in quite a lot of cases the bully is backed up by others, leaving the victim isolated and outnumbered.

Bullying is an extremely serious issue that deserves all the attention it gets. Just because you were able to fight your way past your bullies[footnote]Which I doubt were all that bad, given your lack of empathy. [/footnote] doesn't mean this is the optimal solution or that other people should do. Are you really so selfish as to want to leave victims of bullying to fend for themselves just so you don't have to hear bullying uproars on the news all the time? Encouraging more violence is exactly what you don't want to do when handling bullying. You should never be too proud to ask for help, I feel sorry for you that you gain some misguided sense of pride out of being all macho 'fending for yourself'.

Yea, it sucks, I get that.

No, you really don't get it. Sure, bullying might just 'suck' for you but to other people, bullying destroys their life, stemming their development as a person and creating deep mental wounds which may haunt them for their entire life. For once this is something the media hasn't blown out of proportion.

 

[Chaos Marine]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/erin-gallagher-irish-teen-commits-suicide-battle-cyberbullying_n_2040850.html

Thought I'd just leave this here. For, you know, reasons.

 

[SixWingedAsura]

Violence, Violence, and more Violence.

I should know. As a former bully victim, every time I snapped and responded with physical violence (effective or not), I was never tormented again by that individual. I know I shouldn't be advocating this, but all the talking and the pleading and the telling teachers/adults/counsellors in the world didn't do crap. A good solid right hook did wonders.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I agree mostly Fox, but there does need to be avenues for betterment that aren't ignored (Our school system just loves to ignore bullying).

That said I think that methods to deal with it should be taught, otherwise its learned the hard way

Actually...

Its

snip

There is a difference between a mild teasing and bullying. Look calling someone fat is ok as long as its in good fun and you are not doing it repeatedly. If you get called fat every day for 4 years straight your going to be affected as a person. Thats bullying. Thats what the big deal is.

Yeah, been there, done that, EXACTLY that (except even better because I have the wonderful "disability" of being Bi).

Maybe I'm a jackass but I'm almost glad I went through it, sure, it fucked me up in areas, but on the other side it teaches you things you don't learn when everything is perfect or well protected.

All I know is that I am way more prepared for the world than the thin guys in my school.

Meh the fat thing was an example, my issues were more standard "He's a know it all dork with glasses and dresses like shit, lets get him." type of deal. Though I am bi too and never had a problem with it. Though I still lean towards the opposite sex than same sex so its easier to hide.

 

[Dwarfman]

Snip

Hmmmm...

I think it's safe to say that bullying severely fucked a good hunk of my life. During my time in primary school (Elementary school in the US?) I was picked on by what almost felt like the entire grade. I was quite small, took things far too emotionally and also started a year early so I was younger than everyone. It was only until I was kept back in sixth grade that things started looking up. Until then I had severe learning difficulties (That still affect me), low self esteem and confidence, very few friends, depression with perhaps borderline suicidal tendancies and (apparently I only found out years later) violent waking nightmares. It was the nightmares that actually wound up being a bit of a boon for me because naturally my parents wanted to know who these people I kept screaming about were. They started keeping track of my turns and the names I kept screaming out the most and had a meeting with my teachers to ensure they were kept well away from me at least during class. I also had the great fortune of having the same teacher in both 6 grade and 6 grade repeated, a truly amazing woman who I have much to be thankful for.

After Grade 6 and into Highschool (Junior High and HighSchool are one and the same here in AUS) I had enough emotional maturity to as you say suck it up and get on with my day, however the emotional scarring from my childhood still had hold on me and even now as an adult still haunts me.

To answer your question for the most part I agree with you. However I do think it's about bloody time bullying recieved the attention in so rightly deserves no matter what country your from.

Yes I do agree that children should learn to stand up for themselves. But this is the kicker. It needs to be taught. My teacher from grade 6 was the one who taught me the emotional tools I'd need to help myself. On top of that she was the one who gave me the confidence to stand up on my own. I truly do not know what would have happened to me if I hadn't met that teacher cause in the mental state I was in there was no way I would have been able to help myself.

Here in Australia - At least when I was in Highschool - they started a campaign in schools to educate children about bullying and how to deal with the problem themselves. That is to say identifying, analysing and solving the issues of bullying. This started ensuring that the kids started policing themselves and if there were any problems the kids would take the issue up this the teachers themselves. They also started a mentoring program grouping year 8 kids with two year 12 kids (Highschool in QLD is from years 8 - 12) it was kinda like the 'buddy' system I suppose. The year twelvers would help out and take time out to work with their group and the group would also learn to look out for one another.

Heh... At my High school the anti-bullying campaign was so successful an incident occured that had to be adressed to whole school by the Principal. Apparently a kid in a higher grade started picking on and assaulting one of the Special Ed. kids - Our high school had facilities that catered for all sorts of special issues from blind, deaf, palseys you name it. The students from the victims grade were so infuriated by this they hunted the kid down beat him up and brought him to the principal's office for punishment. The principal appreciated the sentiment but warned against organising armed mobs to deal out lynchings. Me I just smiled.

 

[Dwarfman]

Folks, I don't think whether or not bullying is acceptable is being disputed.

The issue is how to teach kids to deal with bullies in 21st Century society.

And I happen to agree with the Original Poster. No, bullying is not nice, but it's going to happen. So perhaps instead of playing the blame game it would be better to help young people find ways to deal with it in a more effective manner.

Look, I grew up a small foreign kid with a weird name and a smart mouth.

You want to talk about a recipe for getting your ass kicked? I got bullied frequently. But I consider that an education in real world survival skills. It taught me conflict resolution where I learned to:

a) Sometimes keep my mouth shut (and no, I'm not blaming the victim...but there are things one can do to at least mitigate being a target).

b) Develop a sense of humor. In fact, one time I was about to get my weekly pounding and I kept cracking jokes. The would-be-bully kept laughing and finally he said "I can't beat you up! You're just too funny to hit!" After that, he became one of my best friends.

c) Develop a thick skin. My dad once said "Not even everyone likes God. What makes you think everyone will like you?" There was one older kid who always picked on me. No matter what I did or tried, he would not let up. Finally, I just came to expect it and accept it. Finally, he graduated and I had a few years of peace.

d) Learn how to defend yourself. Yes, violence is bad and any good martial art school is going to tell you it's only a last resort. But if someone is absolutely determined to take a swing at you, there's no reason to make it easy.

I will say that bullying has definitely become more creative and mean-spirited these days. And with the advent of the internet and social media, it's easier to expose the target to a much wider group for ridicule. But that doesn't change the fact that, at least in the U.S., we spend far too much time blaming and suing than teaching our kids to adapt.

Okay...I await the dissenting flames!

Why should we flame you? You have given good advice.

 

[generals3]

I saw it.

In high school in fucking Tazewell County Virginia. Imagine the worst of both redneck and gangsta-wannabe worlds. Yeesh.

But hey, you know, maybe I couldn't take being raped at knifepoint while the rapist's girlfriend cheered him on because I was soft. I was sensitive about that kind of thing, you know.

You know, i think the issue here is the definition of "bullying". I usually don't include rape in bullying, rape is a "tad" worse (and with a "tad" i mean a frigging lot).

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I saw it.

In high school in fucking Tazewell County Virginia. Imagine the worst of both redneck and gangsta-wannabe worlds. Yeesh.

But hey, you know, maybe I couldn't take being raped at knifepoint while the rapist's girlfriend cheered him on because I was soft. I was sensitive about that kind of thing, you know.

You know, i think the issue here is the definition of "bullying". I usually don't include rape in bullying, rape is a "tad" worse (and with a "tad" i mean a frigging lot).

I don't know Gunsmithkittens story other then what was said, but it's not a huge stretch to see how bullying is related. Bullying is not an act in and of itself, it is the implementation of other actions to degrade another person.

Bullying, by a group of peers, is dangerous because it dehumanizes the victim. The more a group torments the victim, the easier it will be for others to partake and, potentially, result in an escalation in the torment. Left unchecked, a campaign of abuse and aggression like bullying will only escalate. From there things can go to shit real fast... this is the point where suicide can occur (sheer despair on the part of the victim), but also murder/manslaughter (a beating or vicious assault ending badly) and potentially rape (one of the most degrading acts mankind can commit).

What's more, the victim could end up being the perpetrator of violence, as seen in certain school shootings. When you push someone to the breaking point, all bets are off... and it's never a happy ending.

Bullying has 1 goal... to degrade and humiliate. It doesn't require advanced knowledge in social science, psychology or neurology to figure out where that can lead to.

EDIT: It should probably be considered that bullying is not something people actively aim for. People don't go "I don't like that guy so I'm going to bully them". No one see's themselves as the villain in their own story. They find ways to rationalise and even vindicate their abuse towards the victim.

People like the KKK, westboro baptist church, various violent gangs, serial rapists etc. all convince themselves that they are in the right. They are bullies of different degrees, implementing there chose tool (violence, hate speech, rape) in a righteous manner. They aim to dehumanise and humiliate folks who they just don't like, reasons or rationality be damned.

 

[srm79]

I went through school being picked on a lot. I have a lazy eye, which made me "different", and therefore a target. My bible-bashing mother always insisted I "turn the other cheek", or tell a teacher. The one time when I was very young that I hit back, it was me that got a bollocking for fighting! Going to a teacher of other adult did nothing other than to earn you the label of "grass" ("snitch" for the benefit of the Cousins).

This went on for years, and one day something in my head just quietly went *snap*. I went fucking ballistic at my tormentor of the moment, and came damn near to hospitalising him. After that, things settled down until high school. I didn't put up with it as much there, and got in a few fights, but overall it wasn't as bad as primary school.

The thing is, in later years I've run into my former tormentors from time to time. Most of them ended up being considerably smaller than me in adulthood and almost universally shit themselves when they've realised who the guy eyeing them up from the corner is. One was even hired by the company I worked for at the time, and worked for me. Found a reason to fire him pretty quickly. Revenge really is quite sweet.

Fighting back seems to be pretty much the only thing that works in my experience.

 

[lostlevel]

Some very good points here:

First: a clearer line between "being a dick" and "being a bully" needs to be drawn for this sort of discussion. Being a dick is things like calling people fat, or dumb, or retarded. Being a "bully" is a different beat entirely. Sending texts or posting on Facebook or whatnot about someone, completely unsolicited, for no reason. Harassing them over whatever the topic happens to be. Etc etc. It's more of a chronic "I am regularly victimizing you, and doing it as much as I can" than it is "you're fat, trolololololol". Petty insults and whatnot, yeah, people do need to learn to deal with it. But people constantly assailing you with messages about your own worthlessness? That's crossing a goddamn line, unless the person being victimized is, like, Hitler or someone.

I'm gonna let loose a bit. The mentality of "just deal with it" is a goddamn immature attitude. It's shifting blame and responsibility onto the person being victimized--because clearly, they should have "just dealt with it" and not let it affect them. Aside from this being, on a basic and abstract level, the same thing as blaming rape victims for being raped (i.e., both shift the blame to the person being targeted, and away from the person doing the targeting), it's just plain stupid. In the real world, if someone makes an inappropriate comment in the workplace, they can be fired. If someone keeps harassing you with messages through Facebook about how you're "a fat stupid *****" or "a worthless moron who should just kill themself," in the real world, you report that shit to the police and they (hopefully) give the person a visit. The point is that in "the real world" the same behaviors that bullies often partake in are absolutely not tolerated. So if the argument is that people need to prepare for the real world, why would they need to learn to deal with it all, stone-faced, and just not let it get to them? It's honestly better preparation, I think, to teach them to report the offenses to the relevant authorities.

Also, telling people to "just deal with it" might work well and fine for well-adjusted adults or unusually mature middle/high schoolers. But the truth of the matter is that people in middle school and high school and whatnot are not the pillars of rational thought and self-confidence that the comment implies they should be. Frankly, people at that age--which was me but a few years ago--have a very, very hard time just shutting out what other people say and think. Especially when the harassment often takes the form of attempting to invade someone's social and private life with utter filth.

So, to put it short, I think the idea that people should just "suck it up and deal with" bullying is absolute garbage. It seems to rely on a false assumption that people--and let's remember the age bracket typically in question with bullying--even can do that, because it's oh so much more complex than "you just do it". It shifts blame and responsibility to the people who are being hurt by this, and away from the people who are so often actively seeking out ways to cause someone pain. It's unrealistic in preparation for "the real world"--that sort of shit is not tolerated in any sensible real world situation, so why should it be tolerated amongst the younger age brackets who can be most negatively affected by it? Why should they be expected to already have thick skin, when they barely know anything about the world or about people in general?

This is all not to say that people shouldn't develop some degree of thick-skinnedness. There are tons of examples of petty bullshit people need to be able to deal with, and it sounds like that might have been what OP was talking about--a few insults here or there, general non-targeted dickery, etc. If you lose it every time someone calls you a name, that might be (depending on the circumstances) something to look at changing. But "bullying" as I understand the term goes beyond that, into the territory of harassment and continued, serious emotional and verbal assault/abuse (and perhaps physical, as well). Shrugging your shoulders and saying "it'll always be there" or whatnot and telling people to just deal with it is an infuriating way of addressing the situation, because it misses the whole damn nature of the situation in the first place.

Part of me thinks the original post is deliberate trolling. I think my experience was so little comparison to other people, as I remember mind wasn?t daily it was every so often so I?m not sure if I should call it bullying but I?ll share it. I think this is going to be a long post so forgive me for thinking as I type.

I have only had two people "bully" me at school but in different ways one guy I just ignored and eventually he got bored of trying to offend me, although it turned out that he was quite violent just not toward me and would go down the racist insults and threats route. The other was volatile he seemed to hate me for no real reason. He often attacked randomly without provocation and it was only the days I felt like not taking it that we fought until someone interrupted us.

The irony perhaps is that by the time I learned how to defend myself (through Tae Kwon Do and an unconventional instructor) I realised that I didn?t need to hit back. It wasn?t the best option I could defend myself without going on the offensive. Blocking or diverting without attacking lead to him leaving me alone for a long time.
I think the stoic was the best for me approach as violence only ever caused more violence. It was perhaps right for me to have got angry but wrong for me to lash out. The last time he attacked me at school he hit me from behind and broke a bone in his knuckle (that later had to be removed) and I suppose that?s karma. We still weren?t friends but we sort of had an understanding after that to generally leave each over alone after that.

The bad thing was that the fighting was the only reason the issue ever got discussed by our teachers and they were more concerned with stopping the fighting rather than the cause, so whilst it is an important issue and should be taken seriously the media do over do it. I think it is important that children are made aware of it and that they can get help if they need it, I probably should have told someone sooner in both instances before things got to extreme but I think you should try and sort it out without violence yourself first (if it?s not too extreme).
I did okay but I had a little help in the latter instance and first instance I think I was lucky.

I think that I was lucky for a number of reasons this was in Primary School (or what I guess is elementary in the US) not Secondary (High School) where the bullying I saw got much more extreme, calculated and spiteful. I was also lucky because the internet was a thing social networking wasn?t a thing yet I was born in the early 90s. So the whole cyber bulling was something I didn?t have to deal with and still wasn?t really a thing we would have done in primary school. The problem with more modern tech is a lot of bullying things can be uploaded, shared, and archived before the victim even see?s it. Whilst we all have those pictures we wish we weren?t tagged in online sometimes with sarcastic commentary, if you?re not included in the joke and your bullies have shared it without you finding out for a long time the eventual revelation must be terrible feeling.

 

[DanDanikov]

I vaguely remember, when very young, being associated with and possibly having been a bully for a while. Nothing to be proud of, maybe I was acting out, as I said it's a rather vague memory. It may have been in response to being picked on myself, I know as I got older I continued to be a target for some people, but I'm not sure it was ever severe enough to constitute bullying (it's a fuzzy area).

Now, I'm a fairly nice person and relatively stable in my life, but I don't think that makes it ok. I think schools are right to try and reduce that behaviour- I'd like to see someone argue that suicide induced by torture by your peers (who, honestly, at that stage in life, you have little control over who your peers are) is an ok thing. The problem is that schools don't have the knowledge or the system to deal with these issues properly.

I don't fully understand the science of why bullying happens, how to teach kids to both deal with and not be bullies (a lot of places seem to totally skip over the latter thought), but it seems like schools don't fully grasp it either. It's probably more complicated than just child psychology as there seems to be a cultural aspect as well.

There is a more general extrapolation from this- what kind of behaviour is acceptable socially? What are the limits/effectiveness/ethics of social shaping of children? Why are bullying-related suicides less prevalent in adults and are we missing a trick with kids?

 

[xDarc]

So nobody sees technology as mostly responsible for the rise in bully chatter? Not just by virtue of electronic communication which is anonymous and impersonal, but I also believe growing up with touch screens and things that do what you want, orderly and predictable, by touching brightly colored pretty buttons is more of a developmental disability when the real world does not behave like iOS or whatever garbage parents give their kids to mollify them because they have to work more hours for pay that stretches far less than it used to.

Twenty years ago we didn't have any of this shit and there were only a few kids who got bullied, and it was mostly physical and violent. The solution was simple enough, hit the weight bench and fight back. By 10th grade I was 5'6", 135lbs and could bench press 270. People continued to pick on me because I was smaller than them, but one day after someone hit me in the face I just wrapped my hands around their throat, lifted them up into the air and squeezed. I looked the kid in the eye, and I told him this was it, this was how he was going to die, how does it feel... his eyes got so big. I let him go after he started looking a little blue and no one ever said a word to me again.

After Columbine in 98', local police detectives came to my house to find out how many fire arms I had in the house, brought me in for questioning after some anonymous tips. People were afraid of me. I got expelled for doodling a gun like a week later. The staff was afraid of me. But before that, I had a nice and quiet year or so where nobody bothered me anymore.

Anyway, I didn't have to fight on social media or worry about my reputation or whatever, and I had no disillusions about the way the world worked brought on the by the bright, clean, and orderly facade of the 2000s. The world was not a friendly place, and it was you against it. After high school was over for me I simply finished my diploma at an adult ed course and then went to work. Rarely saw any of those people ever again.

I will be 31 in May, I have no friends still. Had one for a while I met at a coffee shop but he decided to marry an ex-gf. The girl I'm with now, she's only the second one I've ever been with for more than a year. Still, I endure. Hold a decent job, own a home, pay my mortgage, bills, etc. That's all life is in the end.

Maybe bullying today is different than it was a couple decades back, but the answer to it is likely still the same- nobody else is gonna save you but yourself; it's something I can see the push-button kids easily having a real problem with.

 

[xshadowscreamx]

i did stand upto a bully and gave him a bloody lip, he left me alone after that. but most of high school i wasent bullied much at all.

 

[AngloDoom]

Violence, Violence, and more Violence.

I should know. As a former bully victim, every time I snapped and responded with physical violence (effective or not), I was never tormented again by that individual. I know I shouldn't be advocating this, but all the talking and the pleading and the telling teachers/adults/counsellors in the world didn't do crap. A good solid right hook did wonders.

I've added emphasis around the part that really shows the problem with escalating to violence.

While violence has worked wonders for me in the past, punching one guy in the mouth sometimes means four or five guys come back the next day wondering what your next move will be.

Hell, I used to live in a little village where it was a classic case of 'outsiders unwelcome' and I thought that these children would be little pansies who would fall at the first punch. They did. However, you'd then get about two-thirds of the village rise up against you because the 'outsider' is starting fights.


Violence works, yes, but not always.

 

[Loonyyy]

Violence, Violence, and more Violence.

I should know. As a former bully victim, every time I snapped and responded with physical violence (effective or not), I was never tormented again by that individual. I know I shouldn't be advocating this, but all the talking and the pleading and the telling teachers/adults/counsellors in the world didn't do crap. A good solid right hook did wonders.

As a former victim, I can tell you that it didn't work when the guy was a psycho who didn't care if I hurt him.

It didn't work on the guy who came back with two mates.

It didn't work on the girl who brought her crew of fuck-buddies along (Who were 3 years older than me), at which point, my attempt to fight back resulted in being pinned by 4 people much bigger than me (I hadn't had my growth spurt).

It works for some people. One little turd started trying to harrass me verbally. I was having a terrible day, and I pummeled him. He never spoke with anything but respect to me afterwards.

I almost broke a guys orbital bone once. He still wanted to fight me one on one.

Violence is an inconsistent solution at best, and if it's your only suggestion, then those who can't physically fight off any combination of attackers are left with only the option of using weapons. We really don't need to see kids killing bullies with guns simply because people refuse to consider solutions beyond the victim dealing with it themselves.

As a previous bully victim, I'll freely admit: I wanted my tormentors dead. I never considered suicide much back then, because the moment I did, I got angry, and told myself "Fuck it. It's not my problem here, these people enjoy hurting me, and I'm damn well not giving them the satisfaction of winning. It shouldn't be me who dies, it should be them."

 

[chocolate pickles]

At both my primary and high school, we got told if we retaliated against a bully, we would be deemed in the wrong, and that we should have told a teacher instead. Personally, this wasnt and still isn't an ineffective way of dealing with bullying in my opinion, as in some cases it simply didn't work (bully wouldn't care and would just keep doing it)or you would be called a 'grass' by the other kids for going to the teacher. I think that it would be best if kids were taught how to stand up for themselves: Perhaps not violently, but at least have the confidence to face the bully.

Also, schools should stop punishing people who retaliate. I think students should be well within their rights to try and protect themselves.

 

[Loonyyy]

Is your name by any chance a reference to this song? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXZpqORcuFM

Why yes it is I think you're the first person whose ever noticed that.

When I used to play a certain MMO, they came up with a system at one point that let you change your username, and since I had grown out of my current username I tried to find a better one. I was looking for one that sounded cool and kind of witty, and was also a reference to something I liked, and I came upon that song, and it was perfect. Even though the song itself is kind of meh, the title is awesome and I use it for everything now

Awesome. I'm a massive fan of RA, they came down to Australia on tour last year, so I flew over to the mainland to see them. Was awesome. I'm trying to start my own band, mostly inspired by them.