Bullying: Stop the complaining.

[Judas_Iscariot]

It's social Darwinism,

Why do you think that's something that's good?

Because certain traits (Being unintelligent, being morbidly obese, lacking any semblance of social skills) are traits that hurt both the individual and society. Hence the individual ought to work to change the traits. Social skills can be improved through practice, weight can be lost with determination and effort, and poor intelligence can be marginally increased with reading and math practice.

Changing these traits is not easy, so people need a hefty motivation to put in the massive amount of work required. That motivation comes in the form of peer pressure, in this discussion "bullying"

Really it's amazing to what lengths people will defend their "right" to have a personal flaw, despite it being entirely possible to work to overcome or conceal that flaw.

The only exception to this I will give is sexuality, as it isn't a choice nor is it something which can be worked to overcome.

 

[xdiesp]

Bullying is huge in the States, because they are a violent nation whose media and history are imbued with violence. As we speak, several countries are being bombarded by the US completely outside the law. Their freaking president has a kill list. The people actually cheer for state prisons being a place of rape and infernal punishment. And weapon used is pushed on people to make them safer (yes, really). So duh, you reap what you sow, from the cradle onward.

 

[Judas_Iscariot]

Bullying is huge in the States, because they are a violent nation whose media and history are imbued with violence. As we speak, several countries are being bombarded by the US completely outside the law. Their freaking president has a kill list. The people actually cheer for state prisons being a place of rape and infernal punishment. And weapon used is pushed on people to make them safer (yes, really). So duh, you reap what you sow, from the cradle onward.

This is sort of a funny post. Of course the US has a history of violence.... every nation does.

The US bombing nations and the President having a kill list? Probably has something to do with the people on that list being genocidal maniacs/members of groups which are nominally at war with the US. Bombing nations outside the law? I assume you mean the drone strikes, which are killing enemies of the United States who are being sheltered by countries who name themselves allies of the US...

EDIT: Ah, you are from Italy. That place that helped start World War II. Real peaceful history you have there.

 

[kunymonster]

I really don't know what to think about what our society should deal with bullying.I was bullied for a solid 8 years in elementary school. I rarely told anyone about but I didn't just take it, I did stand up for myself but it really was impossible when its more than one person. I don't get bullied anymore but it still affects me everyday, it took years to get over my fear of people and get past my bitter disposition. But for all the horrible things bullying did to me, it taught me a lot about people and life in general. It taught me that life isn't all fun and games, sometimes it will just shit on you and you have to deal with it. It taught me to deal with adversity and better appreciate the things that make life wonderful. Being bullied made me stronger in the end, even when I look back at the darkest days of my childhood, I know it helped shaped me into the person I am today.

Obviously there are the kids who didn't make it, my best friend threatened to kill himself from being bullied and needed therapy to recover and dozens of other kids actually commit suicide. It's a tradegy and maybe kids do need more help but many of the laws and methods advocated today are too extreme and I believe ineffective.

 

[maidenm]

I went to a lecture once (not sure if it's the right word here but bear with me) held by a father, his wife and their two daughters who where the founders of a anti-bullying organisation called "dare be yourself". Their younges daugther hanged herself after beeing bullied, and they put a lot of effort into helping people realise what bullying is and how to deal with it from a emotional perspective to help young students.
This girl had help, from techers, but they did too little, i.e they said "now children, apologize to eachother".
She had help from family, but eventually the bullying outweighted the support.
She told the bullies to leave her alone after they started to slander her with words like whore and similar, at wich point they beat her up.
She was supported by a member of "Friends", an anti bullying group that sends out representatives to help bully victims. This representative then cornered her in a bathroom and sexually assulted her.

My point is, getting help is sometimes not enough, standing up is sometimes not enough, and sometimes you can't even trust the people who are there to help you. To say that you need to "deal with it", "man up" or similar comments is not just disrespectful, it's also one of the worst things you can say to someone who's already in a position where they feel like the world is against them.

One main problem, in my opinion, is that teachers are not taught how to handle situations like this. Someone made a comment about how they are afraid of getting sued or fired, well that's not how it works! A teacher is expected, even supposed to help a bully victim, but the truth is that teachers are just as vulnerable to bullying as the students.

I wish this was a swedish forum, then I could suggest that you'd see "Henrik is a dork", a play/lecture where Henrik tells the audience about his childhood and the bullying he endured and how he got through it. I wish people could see it, it really points towards bullies and says "there, right there, is the problem and what it causes" as well as giving those who have been through it a sense of familiarity and hope.

 

[CharrHearted]

Stop complaining?

Due to bullying my brother had a sharp metal steel pipe shoved straight into his right ass cheek ripping half the flesh off his arse.

You think we should just stop complaining?

FUCK off.

 

[Judas_Iscariot]

Mhm, so in other words you have a simplistic view of society. What you seem not to realize is that society tend to view social Darwinists as flawed.

Stating your personal opinion then pretending society shares it is hardly a compelling point.

 

[CharrHearted]

Bullying is good. It encourages people who are behaving strangely or failing to develop social skills to do so. It's social Darwinism, being bullied because you are fat? Lose weight. Being bullied because you creep girls out? Start learning to pick girls who are actually interested in you. Bullied for being a slut? Stop spreading your legs for anyone who takes you out once. Bullied for being gay? Stop being so flamboyant.

And if you'd rather not change who you are, then fight back and earn your right to be different.

Society is not responsible for protecting you from mean people. Someone who is abnormal, bases their opinion of themselves on what other people think, is to weak to mount a defense, to stubborn to change, to unlikeable to get others to help, and to unintelligent to strike back verbally or with some sort of clever scheme deserves what they get: they were never going to contribute anything meaningful to society anyways.

Adapt or die.

So we should follow the sheep? Sorry, but i'd rather die than change my own beliefs. My beliefs are strong in my culture, my way of life, my sexuality and my likes. You believe I should change just to live? You're a monster. A virus, you try to corrupt but you can't corrupt those who have faith in themselves...

Stop being Irish, Stop being Rebellious, stop being gay, stop liking this or that... It won't happen. Diversity is what makes us bring out ideas together and succeed for a world of many faces... Take your social darwinism someplace else and if you're up to it, shove that Adapt or die shit straight in your arse, Because i'd rather die than have some bastard like you tell me how to live my life.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Mhm, so in other words you have a simplistic view of society. What you seem not to realize is that society tend to view social Darwinists as flawed.

Stating your personal opinion then pretending society shares it is hardly a compelling point.

Ummm....The same could be said for your point too, you know...

 

[Aglynugga]

I laughed at a fat kids once and another time threw a donut at him but he ended up eating it anways. Am I a bully?

 

[Jzolr0708]

You're right. No one DESERVES to be bullied, but it's going to happen. Give me an example of where you can't just "deal with it." Also, give me some solutions to said bullying that works. Telling a teacher and ignoring it are two options (that in my life) have NEVER worked.

My older brother was bullied mercilessly during his sophmore year of high school. Being 5'5 and 130 pounds, him trying to kick the 6'2 wrestler's ass was kind of out of the question. He didn't want to tell the teacher because that was the "childish" thing to do, but after they kicked the shit out of him after school, he did just that. Fun thing about teachers, when they see a child with a broken nose and black eye, they tend to take this shit seriously. The kids who were bullying him were pulled into the office the next day where police officers sat down and had a nice chat about assault laws and the wonders of being expelled and arrested. So yes, telling a teacher can help. I don't know about where you grew up, but in my experience, the kids who can defend themselves and kick the crap out of their bullies aren't the ones being bullied. It's the small kids, the ones who are shy or depressed, and, sadly enough, sometimes the mentally handicapped. Bullying and petty teasing are very different things, and the former is not something that is generally such an easy fix as "punching the other guy."

 

[Jzolr0708]

Bullying is good. It encourages people who are behaving strangely or failing to develop social skills to do so. It's social Darwinism, being bullied because you are fat? Lose weight. Being bullied because you creep girls out? Start learning to pick girls who are actually interested in you. Bullied for being a slut? Stop spreading your legs for anyone who takes you out once. Bullied for being gay? Stop being so flamboyant.

And if you'd rather not change who you are, then fight back and earn your right to be different.

Society is not responsible for protecting you from mean people. Someone who is abnormal, bases their opinion of themselves on what other people think, is to weak to mount a defense, to stubborn to change, to unlikeable to get others to help, and to unintelligent to strike back verbally or with some sort of clever scheme deserves what they get: they were never going to contribute anything meaningful to society anyways.

Adapt or die.

So we should follow the sheep? Sorry, but i'd rather die than change my own beliefs. My beliefs are strong in my culture, my way of life, my sexuality and my likes. You believe I should change just to live? You're a monster. A virus, you try to corrupt but you can't corrupt those who have faith in themselves...

Stop being Irish, Stop being Rebellious, stop being gay, stop liking this or that... It won't happen. Diversity is what makes us bring out ideas together and succeed for a world of many faces... Take your social darwinism someplace else and if you're up to it, shove that Adapt or die shit straight in your arse, Because i'd rather die than have some bastard like you tell me how to live my life.

Sorry for double post, but this. Just this. As I mentioned before, a lot of the time victims of bullying are MENTALLY HANDICAPPED. Want to tell me that the kid with autism who doesn't even harm anyone deserves to be shit on every day? Sorry mate, but I'm not gonna sit there and let someone innocent be harmed because of "Darwinism."

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Bullying is good. It encourages people who are behaving strangely or failing to develop social skills to do so. It's social Darwinism, being bullied because you are fat? Lose weight. Being bullied because you creep girls out? Start learning to pick girls who are actually interested in you. Bullied for being a slut? Stop spreading your legs for anyone who takes you out once. Bullied for being gay? Stop being so flamboyant.

And if you'd rather not change who you are, then fight back and earn your right to be different.

Society is not responsible for protecting you from mean people. Someone who is abnormal, bases their opinion of themselves on what other people think, is to weak to mount a defense, to stubborn to change, to unlikeable to get others to help, and to unintelligent to strike back verbally or with some sort of clever scheme deserves what they get: they were never going to contribute anything meaningful to society anyways.

Adapt or die.

So we should follow the sheep? Sorry, but i'd rather die than change my own beliefs. My beliefs are strong in my culture, my way of life, my sexuality and my likes. You believe I should change just to live? You're a monster. A virus, you try to corrupt but you can't corrupt those who have faith in themselves...

Stop being Irish, Stop being Rebellious, stop being gay, stop liking this or that... It won't happen. Diversity is what makes us bring out ideas together and succeed for a world of many faces... Take your social darwinism someplace else and if you're up to it, shove that Adapt or die shit straight in your arse, Because i'd rather die than have some bastard like you tell me how to live my life.

Sorry for double post, but this. Just this. As I mentioned before, a lot of the time victims of bullying are MENTALLY HANDICAPPED. Want to tell me that the kid with autism who doesn't even harm anyone deserves to be shit on every day? Sorry mate, but I'm not gonna sit there and let someone innocent be harmed because of "Darwinism."

3

Except that social darwinists will typically think this:

AH, but you see he wasn't innocent since he was autistic and thus his very existence is a Crime against nature! I mean...what if he reproduces! IMAGINE THE DAMAGE THAT WOULD DO TO THE HUMAN RACE IF HIS DNA CONTAMINATES THE FUTURE!!!!!1


Of course, I think this type of logic is BS. Because it is.

 

[blackrave]

As usually it is complicated question and I don't think I can talk about any possible case
From my viewpoint this is simple
1.If a guy bullies you try diplomacy, if it ain't working ignore him, if ignoring becomes impossible, send him to hospital
2.If a group of guys bullies you, locate the leader of the group, then see point 1.
3.If a girls bullies you then diplomacy and ignoring is only things you can do

I personally never had a problems with guys- they knew that I won't go down without a fight
Some high school girls on the other hand made my life pretty miserable- when I tried to talk them down, they just made fun of me, when I tried to ignore them, they became physical (pushing, slapping my ass and stroking my hair was usual thing in those moments)
I couldn't run away, because I was goddamn slow back in school
And I couldn't exactly damage them (due to upbringing and them being in high school- if I tried anything violent, I most probably would be beaten up by their peers and back then-12 to 14 years- even I couldn't stand against them)
And the worst part was that whenever I tried to bring it up with teachers or parents I got laughed at, ignored or they made things even worse (because when boy is bullied by a girls nobody takes this seriously)
So sometimes even complaining isn't possible

 

[Ragsnstitches]

It's social Darwinism,

Why do you think that's something that's good?

Because certain traits (Being unintelligent, being morbidly obese, lacking any semblance of social skills) are traits that hurt both the individual and society. Hence the individual ought to work to change the traits. Social skills can be improved through practice, weight can be lost with determination and effort, and poor intelligence can be marginally increased with reading and math practice.

Changing these traits is not easy, so people need a hefty motivation to put in the massive amount of work required. That motivation comes in the form of peer pressure, in this discussion "bullying"

Really it's amazing to what lengths people will defend their "right" to have a personal flaw, despite it being entirely possible to work to overcome or conceal that flaw.

The only exception to this I will give is sexuality, as it isn't a choice nor is it something which can be worked to overcome.

You know, being an immense asshole is also considered a flaw. Lacking empathy or even basic sympathy is liable to get someone labelled as a sociopath and a person who is unable to control their impulses can be considered a psychopath.

People who can't control their urges, whether it's sex drive, aggression or egotism, or are unable to reach out to others, are harmful to society.

Flaws aren't just weaknesses to the self, they are weaknesses to the group. Bullying is a flaw. By your logic it should be weeded out. Doubly so considering it can cause the "flaws" you thing should be taken out.

Holy shit some people. Such arrogance and audaciousness. Do you think your some sort of social paragon? Who the fuck are you to judge?

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not so far up my own ass to decide who is fit to live in this world. Everyone deserves a chance, help when needed and treatment all other avenues fail. Social Darwinism is just a not-so-clever way to disguise your own insecurities, by smugly mocking the fatal flaws of others.

 

[Blaster]

Having just done a major 10 minute presentation on this subject, the only viable "solution" is for students to band together and help each other out. By giving bullies and audience, they are in a sense "telling" the bully that what they're doing will give them some sort of attention.

 

[Judas_Iscariot]

A few clarifications.

My original post never claimed to represent what society thought, whereas the initial criticism of my post consisted of nothing except "Society disagrees with you", which is neither outlining your personal opinion on the matter or truly criticizing mine. My initial post was outlining my system of thought and opinions on the matter, yours was an appeal to the authority of the masses.

On the post stating that you would rather die than change who you are, Great! That is exactly the attitude you need. Someone with that sort of resolve is not likely to let a few bullies get to them, either through sheer mental fortitude or through more direct confrontation. My post is not aimed at those such as yourself, rather at the weak.

Secondly, the rest of the posts quoting me have been in regards to my apparent lack of empathy, and one discussed autism. Touching on the Autism point, they should not be in public school if they have a crippling mental handicap. They should be in a school for the mentally handicapped, where if they get bullied it will be by other autistic children. Having mentally handicapped children in public school is a mistake and not something I endorse. Although I do agree with the point, brought up in an attempt to mock me, that they should not reproduce. Not out of fear of their passing along their genetics, but because I don't think a mentally handicapped person would be capable of parenting well. It takes more than love to raise a child.

On the lack of empathy being itself a poor trait to possess: I agree that it is. I don't consider myself a sociopath, but if I were I would not be stupid enough to overtly display that trait to my peers, for fear of the repercussions (unless that very lack of fear is your definition of a sociopath, in which case the discussion really isn't applicable). Hence my original post, because anyone who did overtly display a character flaw as apparent as complete disregard for society would deserve as much bullying as anyone else.