Call of Juarez: The Cartel Criticism Grows

[Mullahgrrl]

They get credit for not saying "Earn Points" but lose a little for still thinking games go by a similar system.

But, really, does ANYONE know what the hell the game storyline is about? All I know is the title and it involves a drug cartel in some way.

To what I heard, we play as guys fucking up the cartel.

Well.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TruffautWasRight

It might be argued that any portrayal of cartel stuff makes it seem cool, unless the game sucks that is.

(O_O)

I was just reading that page last night and still have it open in a tab.

(O_O)

(O_O)

So did I, Maby we are really the same person?

 

[King_Serpent]

I know the usual argument, but the effect may be higher in Mexico if children already want to be like this. Its not like in the UK/USA where there are less aspirations to this sort of thing.

I do not know if anyone mentioned this, but that is incredibly racist. Just look at what you said. Mexican kids do not have any more "need" to be violent than anyone in the US or the UK. There are so many games like this that it is idiotic to say this one will have any more of an impact. Also, if the kid is in the position that he feels he needs to join a drug ring it?s not going to be a video game that helps him decide what to do.

Also, movies can cover these topics. Until video games can create subject matter about these types of situations it will never be respected.

I don't see how this is any different than any gang-centered game ever made.

maybe if it were more in the '90's, or '60's with the mob, but right now drug cartels are if not the most violent and easibly recognizable enterprise than the Latin Kings or A.C.

A Majority of drugs bought in Mexico and the US have traded hands through cartels at least once, to make a game that could portray drug dealing as a legitimate business and something "easy", you could open up an entire new found interest in doing so.


dont get me wrong, I also think gang related games are in bad taste, and generally stupid to boot [Im looking at you 25 to life, fuck you in the ass sideways with a trout by a midget Adolf Hitler!], imagine if GTA San Andreas had been released right around the time gangs in California was at an all time high [about the same time the game takes place], I guarantee that there would of been an increase in gang violence.


..............and Im not even a person who supports Games = Violence!

You sound alot like one though. Games do not and will not cause kids to go out and join gangs any more than movies. Gang Games are not in poor taste and they have the potential to tell a story about redemption or the price that these violent lives cause. Main point is you can't decide that this is unworthy of being made if others want to play it. That is called forcing your morals on a person's creative work. That is what I find immoral not obviously fictional game violence.

 

[-Drifter-]

Does anyone have any idea of how bad the cartel problem has become in Mexico? There are several towns where the police force no longer has any presence because the Cartels have simply killed and threated it out of existance. Does anyone remeber the story of the 20 somthing colledge studnet who became cheif of Police because nobody else would take the job? 3 days later she was kidnapped and was never seen since.

You may ***** and moan about sensationalism and how very few details exist and nothing proves this game will increse crime, but in this case I will be willing to cut them some slack. The drug Cartels have their own well equipted Miltas, dozens have been kidnapped and killed for daring to oppose them, making a game about it all while its still all ongoing seems a tad unessescary

"It sets a bad example for the kids."

Again, normally I would agree, but joining the Cartels is already a very attractive option for some people, the police cant offer protection so they need to be on the right side.

I can't say I totally agree. While they'll have to be very careful to avoid it being in bad taste, if they treat the subject matter properly they could have something powerful and moving on their hands.

I doubt that'll be the case, though. Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood was a good game, to be sure, but I wouldn't call it a thoughtful piece about the aftermath of the civil war.

 

[Blind Sight]

Well, if you hadn't wasted billions of dollars on the War on Drugs, created the Mexican drug cartels in the first place, pressured Mexico to enforce insane drug laws, and basically caused the country to have a micro civil war you wouldn't have this problem.

Hey civic leaders, do you feel stupid enough yet?

I will only buy it if there's a mission where you have to go after a bald cop with an axe and your crazy cousin:

 

[Nexus4]

IT RATED FOR ADULTS FOR A GODDAMN REASON!

seriously do these people ever notice the actual rating of the game

 

[Blue Musician]

Okay, as a gamer and as a Mexican who is currently trying to seek for refuge in Australia, let me give my opinion.

First of all, I am not against freedom of speech, specially in videogames. But nonetheless I am against the game.

First of all, Chihuahua, specifically Cd. Juarez is in a crisis right now. The most important human rights activists have been murdered in the past three months, a lot more people have been killed in January than in December in Chihuahua alone, and I was nearly assaulted the 31st of January (chased for over 300 meters by one, ONE guy). The 14th of February they killed a kid just one year ahead of me (he's 16, I'm 15), and in the day of the funeral the same hit-men arrived and killed his whole family.

The point is that Chihuahua, specially Juarez, is in a state of great fear. A game with such a sensitive material in such a time is just a great wrong move.

Also let me make this clear. A game like this won't be an accurate or even respectful representation of what is happening right now. I think that none of these developers have even been in crime, or even went to Mexico. So, overall, a bad start even months before a trailer was released.

Secondly, I do not know about the US, but the age ratings in Mexico are practically nonexistent. Any kid can go and buy any game that they can find, even if they are underage. Most people won't care, just with the money they receive by the end of the day.

And yes, kids are the majority that play videogames, not adults.

And yes, one videogame has inspired a lot of violence, copycats, and recruitment for the drug dealers. GTA: San Andreas.

I don't mean that games are the sole creator of the situation we are living, etc, etc.
But SA has a lot of similarities with Mexico. Actually that's the sole reason why I didn't like SA.

SA is the only popular game in Mexico. Not even Halo, Mafia, Duke Nukem, Half Life, etc. can rival GTA in Mexico. Most kids from 5 year old ones have already played it. And god they are addicted to it.

 

[Blue Musician]

"It sets a bad example for the kids." I am getting so tired of this STUPID argument. If a game is rated M for 17 and older, it's the parents' responsibility not to get it for their kids! DAAAAMMMNNN. Whoo, I feel better.

Age rating are practically nonexistent in Mexico. Any kid can buy any game at any age all by themselves. I have seen five year old kids playing GTA SA, and they are proud of it. Thanks to it have been a lot of copycats, believe it or not.

Oh, and if you suggest tightening up the videogame control, note that most if not all games are not sold by official retailers.

And the system has the parents quite occupied most of the time, there are parents who have three different jobs at the same time, and still they cannot maintain their family. So, a lack of parentship is not only caused by negligence, but also by the negligence of the system to guarantee protection or even a decent life style to us the Mexicans.

 

[Jumplion]

I understand their concern, the area that The Cartel is in is very violent and full of conflict, but could you please wait until we get some more information about it? We don't know what you'll be doing in this game.

 

[Jumplion]

Okay, as a gamer and as a Mexican who is currently trying to seek for refuge in Australia, let me give my opinion.

First of all, I am not against freedom of speech, specially in videogames. But nonetheless I am against the game.

First of all, Chihuahua, specifically Cd. Juarez is in a crisis right now. The most important human rights activists have been murdered in the past three months, a lot more people have been killed in January than in December in Chihuahua alone, and I was nearly assaulted the 31st of January (chased for over 300 meters by one, ONE guy). The 14th of February they killed a kid just one year ahead of me (he's 16, I'm 15), and in the day of the funeral the same hit-men arrived and killed his whole family.

The point is that Chihuahua, specially Juarez, is in a state of great fear. A game with such a sensitive material in such a time is just a great wrong move.

Also let me make this clear. A game like this won't be an accurate or even respectful representation of what is happening right now. I think that none of these developers have even been in crime, or even went to Mexico. So, overall, a bad start even months before a trailer was released.

Secondly, I do not know about the US, but the age ratings in Mexico are practically nonexistent. Any kid can go and buy any game that they can find, even if they are underage. Most people won't care, just with the money they receive by the end of the day.

And yes, kids are the majority that play videogames, not adults.

And yes, one videogame has inspired a lot of violence, copycats, and recruitment for the drug dealers. GTA: San Andreas.

I don't mean that games are the sole creator of the situation we are living, etc, etc.
But SA has a lot of similarities with Mexico. Actually that's the sole reason why I didn't like SA.

SA is the only popular game in Mexico. Not even Halo, Mafia, Duke Nukem, Half Life, etc. can rival GTA in Mexico. Most kids from 5 year old ones have already played it. And god they are addicted to it.

I quote this for truth because, well, it is the truth. While I don't live anywhere near this particular area, and am personally well off, I can understand the critics concerns about the game. While I personally don't see anything wrong with the game (yet, anyway, as we haven't seen anything about it), or GTA:SA for that matter, I can see why others would be concerned over games like these.

Still, I have to wonder if this is dislike by asociation. If this game was about the Drug Cartels in, say, Uganda or something (I have no idea what goes on over there, just an example) would you be as against it? What about if it was just some fictionalized setting? While I was one of the first to call them out on what they claim is a "deep/mature storyline" for the game, who knows? Maybe they'll actually put out a respectable story worth a damn.

We won't know until it comes out.

 

[fulano]

I wouldn't care as much as I do if Americans weren't so hypocritical about it. We can't have Talibans nor a game set en Fallujah but we can have one in Ciudad Juarez where innocent people die everyday? Why the double standard?

Granted, if that were not the case, I wouldn't care. I wouldn't be up for it, but I'd try to be more understanding of other people's likes.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I thought you were playing the guys murdering the cartels in this?
Wouldn't you want angry militias of stupid kids with guns to kill violent drug dealers?

Darwin Awards in action, after all.

 

[fulano]

I thought you were playing the guys murdering the cartels in this?
Wouldn't you want angry militias of stupid kids with guns to kill violent drug dealers?

Darwin Awards in action, after all.

There are already angry militias of stupid kids with guns out to kill violent drug dealers. The part you miss is that they are all sponsored by different groups of drug dealers. It's all one big fuckup.

 

[Booze Zombie]

There are already angry militias of stupid kids with guns out to kill violent drug dealers. The part you miss is that they are all sponsored by different groups of drug dealers. It's all one big fuckup.

So, there isn't damage left for anything else to do? Jesus.

 

[fulano]

There are already angry militias of stupid kids with guns out to kill violent drug dealers. The part you miss is that they are all sponsored by different groups of drug dealers. It's all one big fuckup.

So, there isn't damage left for anything else to do? Jesus.

There is always room for shit to go wrong. Always.

More than anything, that game is fucking annoying and the product of a double standard.

 

[Booze Zombie]

There is always room for shit to go wrong. Always.

More than anything, that game is fucking annoying and the product of a double standard.

The thing to keep in mind is that the people behind these games most likely aren't pushing any agenda, they're just exploring different environments in a virtual setting.
But I can understand how it can upset some people.

 

[fulano]

There is always room for shit to go wrong. Always.

More than anything, that game is fucking annoying and the product of a double standard.

The thing to keep in mind is that the people behind these games most likely aren't pushing any agenda, they're just exploring different environments in a virtual setting.
But I can understand how it can upset some people.

Yeah, absolutely. Everyone these days is trying to be edgy and 'mature' with their games, but more out of the need to push a product and bot because they believe in a story of any sort. Picking a current conflict and playing it for kicks is, in my book, unnecessarily callous...yet acceptable. But either anything goes or nothing goes, and since there is already precedent of people already killing a whole game and modifying another (albeit slightly) then I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon too. And yeah, it fairly stupid, but so is the game.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Yeah, absolutely. Everyone these days is trying to be edgy and 'mature' with their games, but more out of the need to push a product and bot because they believe in a story of any sort. Picking a current conflict and playing it for kicks is, in my book, unnecessarily callous...yet acceptable. But either anything goes or nothing goes, and since there is already precedent of people already killing a whole game and modifying another (albeit slightly) then I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon too. And yeah, it fairly stupid, but so is the game.

Maybe your time would be better spent trying to rid the world of double-standards as opposed to being angry about them?

 

[Blue Musician]

Still, I have to wonder if this is dislike by asociation. If this game was about the Drug Cartels in, say, Uganda or something (I have no idea what goes on over there, just an example) would you be as against it? What about if it was just some fictionalized setting? While I was one of the first to call them out on what they claim is a "deep/mature storyline" for the game, who knows? Maybe they'll actually put out a respectable story worth a damn.

Before the drug war started in 2006 I had no problem what-so-ever with games, and even now I'm not giving so much attention to them. I don't blame games because they are violent, or that they cause rape like the psychiatrist said.
But since the war started I've been feeling some (extreme) dislike for all these recent games (I actually prefer more the old games, but still it's been months since I last played a game), mainly because they are about "real-life" war scenarios based on ongoing conflicts, not fictionalized.
The main problem is that they do not actually show all the fear, all the wrong stuff, all the problems that the people have in that place right now. They only show the soldier's point of view; how about the children, the people who have lived through these wars, the people who have suffered for these wars, the people who are the REAL survivors?

A soldier and a drug dealer is very different to a worker, an honest person, a student, even though they are on the same place of conflict.

A soldier and a drug dealer mostly have to worry who they are going to kill, to protect themselves from being shot and if someone causes them trouble they can point a gun to them, and by the end of the day they'll have their payment. Everything else tends to go secondary.
The surviving people have to worry about not being robbed, not getting in the middle of a crossfire, of not getting fired, of having enough money to give to their family to eat, to not being kidnapped, to be robbed of what had to work for so long, that their family won't get hurt. And we cannot bloody protect ourselves.

And if they get do get hurt, well...

Everyday I have to walk in front of a funerary, and it's always full when I see it.

Curiously a lot more people have been going to the psychiatrist.


About the story, well I don't care to be honest, I been feeling that all these stories I have already experienced them one way or another. What makes them special is their presentation. But even then, the story won't be any good for me, because it will be about drug dealers, not about the survivors.

 

[fulano]

Yeah, absolutely. Everyone these days is trying to be edgy and 'mature' with their games, but more out of the need to push a product and bot because they believe in a story of any sort. Picking a current conflict and playing it for kicks is, in my book, unnecessarily callous...yet acceptable. But either anything goes or nothing goes, and since there is already precedent of people already killing a whole game and modifying another (albeit slightly) then I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon too. And yeah, it fairly stupid, but so is the game.

Maybe your time would be better spent trying to rid the world of double-standards as opposed to being angry about them?

Sure, why not? Let me start compiling a comprehensive list on 'em and I'll et back at ya. First, male to female wage disparity...

Still, I have to wonder if this is dislike by asociation. If this game was about the Drug Cartels in, say, Uganda or something (I have no idea what goes on over there, just an example) would you be as against it? What about if it was just some fictionalized setting? While I was one of the first to call them out on what they claim is a "deep/mature storyline" for the game, who knows? Maybe they'll actually put out a respectable story worth a damn.

Before the drug war started in 2006 I had no problem what-so-ever with games, and even now I'm not giving so much attention to them. I don't blame games because they are violent, or that they cause rape like the psychiatrist said.
But since the war started I've been feeling some (extreme) dislike for all these recent games (I actually prefer more the old games, but still it's been months since I last played a game), mainly because they are about "real-life" war scenarios based on ongoing conflicts, not fictionalized.
The main problem is that they do not actually show all the fear, all the wrong stuff, all the problems that the people have in that place right now. They only show the soldier's point of view; how about the children, the people who have lived through these wars, the people who have suffered for these wars, the people who are the REAL survivors?

A soldier and a drug dealer is very different to a worker, an honest person, a student, even though they are on the same place of conflict.

A soldier and a drug dealer mostly have to worry who they are going to kill, to protect themselves from being shot and if someone causes them trouble they can point a gun to them, and by the end of the day they'll have their payment. Everything else tends to go secondary.
The surviving people have to worry about not being robbed, not getting in the middle of a crossfire, of not getting fired, of having enough money to give to their family to eat, to not being kidnapped, to be robbed of what had to work for so long, that their family won't get hurt. And we cannot bloody protect ourselves.

And if they get do get hurt, well...

Everyday I have to walk in front of a funerary, and it's always full when I see it.

Curiously a lot more people have been going to the psychiatrist.


About the story, well I don't care to be honest, I been feeling that all these stories I have already experienced them one way or another. What makes them special is their presentation. But even then, the story won't be any good for me, because it will be about drug dealers, not about the survivors.

That's also the issue. If the game was being developed by, say, Bioware, a company that is known for making quality games about branching storylines with actual consequence, then we wouldn't be having this conversation as we would be pretty sure that at least those guys wouldn't want to fuck up their story by casting the situation in a stupid, exploitative light. I wouldn't really mind, really. Instead, what we as mexicans get is a stupid game about "badasses" (and oddly, a Hale Berry lookalike that seems to be mixed in there, too) cleaning town i.e. showing us brownies how to stand up to The Man the good ol' American way.