Can a guy gamer get a say in this bull?

[Lilani]

As a female and a gamer, I don't mind playing male characters in a game. I'm usually drawn to a game because of the premise, not where women stand in it. I really don't think Kingdom Hearts or Psychonauts would have been any better if the main characters were female. Seriously, I play games to get away from all that shit, not to hold a magnifying glass up and spot it wherever I can.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Really though, the main reason that there are so few games marketed at girls, is that there are so few girl gamers, or even girls who are likely to buy a game if it is marketed to them. You see, the first thing that has to happen before more "girl games" are made, let alone good ones, is that making games for girls can't be a financial risk for the developers and publishers.

 

[The Deadpool]

What the hell does a girl want in a game?

Gossip and shopping for shoes I guess...

Seriously though, this is the part of the argument that pisses me off. People that say that violent games are for men make the assumption that women are these flowery fragile things that like prancing around fields in white dresses and nothing more. I find them to be the worst kind of sexist: The kind who believes he's doing women a favor by helping the poor, oppressed little thing rise up since she's clearly too weak and stupid to do it on her own... Ugh.

Guess what? Chicks like guns too. They like explosions and action and all that good stuff. I've met more women playing Left 4 Dead than in any other online game... I'm guessing killing 500 Zombies an hour is about as appealing to women as it is to men...

 

[ethaninja]

Well uh...I think that...hmmm...what is there to talk about here really?

Agreed

 

[CargoHold]

Interesting OP about boobs.

But for the love of God, can we please stop with the girls-games-male demographic-stereotypes are crap-wtf argument? If we don't, I'll cry.

 

[Nemu]

Eh, I'm a girl woman and I enjoy killing people online.
I love zombies, not really into cars tho.

But I definitely agree that there should be a few more options for female leads in games. This isn't remotely as big a deal in MMOs, since most games give you the option to select your own toon, but console games really need to step it up and toss a few more female lead (read: playable) characters into the fold. At least, they should if they want to broaden their player base (and yes, I see the humor in using the word "broaden").

 

[haaxist]

To tell the truth, I would love to see a game where there are lots of zombies and guns and you get to blow peoples heads off and blow stuff up and you can choose to be a guy or a girl and no matter which one you choose to be the other one won't turn into your retarded AI sidekick who you have to rescue every 5 bloody seconds. Or maybe a game where you choose what your avatar looks like, even if it doesn't have mulitplayer. I liked Oblivion for that reason, because it gave me greater control over what my characrer looked like. Of course, saying all that, I don't mind playing as a male character, but I wish that most girls in games didn't have voluptous bodies and scanty clothing. In RE5, for instance, I always play as Chris, partly because I started out as him, and he's the one I'm more comfortable playing with, but also because his unlockable outfits don't make him look like some kind of exotic whore. I understand where guys are coming from, I mean, girls do make a big deal about how we're portrayed in video games(I do too), but at the same time, all we do is complain to people who can't really change anything. If we want things to change, we have to organize together and come up with calm, convincing arguments, not a bunch of whiny complaints. Also, if you don't like games where women are objectified, or are seen as unequal, don't buy them. And stop ragging on guys who like them. It is perfectly normal for a guy to like seeing a girl in a video game with huge boobs and little clothing, just the same as girls like to see an attractive man in leather. Get over it. And guys, please don't assume that shooters and racing games are a guys only territory. It only antagonizes girls, and quite frankly, a lot of girls do like those kinds of games.

 

[Communist partisan]

it exist games for girls and i'm sure that it exist girls that like guns and loud noises as you say all guys like

 

[haaxist]

I know the games that girls play. That bejeweled crap. Wii games. Yeah, those 'games' that should be 5 dollar apps you only whip out after solitaire loses its luster. What a lot of girls seem to like make better movies and books than games. And so... here we are with games for guys dominating the markets. yeah. you go girls.

I don't even own a Wii. I was considering buying one for Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, but I guess I shouldn't now. I guess I should go buy Cooking Mama or Nintendogs, seeing as how I am apparently some girly, pink-loving twat who only likes games because they are shiny and sparkly and provide some stimulation to my underdeveloped, primitive brain. I'll leave the serious gaming to you. Heaven forbid I break a nail. You go guys.

 

[teutonicman]

I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts (do do)
There they are standing in a row
Big ones, small ones, some as big as your head
Give 'em a twist a flick of the wrist
That's what the showman said.
On a more serious note though there are a number or games where the giggle physics in marketed (see mass effect, final fantasy especially x-2, doa beach volleyball). But yes for the most part you are correct in what you're calling bullshit on.

 

[paragon1]

Woah, calm down dude. It's all going to be okay, I promise. Though you do put forward an interesting question. What exactly WOULD appeal to women in a game that would be different than what is already done (I'm talking about gameplay, not marketing)? And if someone knows what it is, why the hell haven't they made it? Surely the Twilight series, foul cursed abomination of storytelling that it is, has proven that this would be financially viable?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think many female gamers just want games that have real female CHARACTERS, not just annoying bitches with oversized breasts, or naive lolitas...with oversized breasts.
And maybe some unicorns.

Right because the market is so full of Male lead characters that are real and never have biceps the size of thier heads and big chests. The problem isn't male or female. It is the writers who think giving the characters a witty one liner makes them fully developed. And that is even if they get to say a sentence in the first place.

The only people who the industry fairly represents is amnesiac orphans who are forced to make thier own clothes with random pieces of fabric they pull from dumpsters because they spend all thier money on hair gel.

I agree with you to an extent, that the male protagonists are usually under that "ideal" type character model, but there is truth in the majority of the time female characters are only put in to be sexy and usually have little other purpose.

Though, for some reason that doesn't bother me, and neither does the lack of clothing most female NPCs tend to have. However, it should be noted that the gaming population is and has been evolving to include increasing amounts of female players, so there will definitely be charges of sexism in the name of being raving feminists. I think the cries that the gaming industry shouldn't try to cater to a female playerbase because it's too small is becoming a void argument. They don't need to change the way games are or mess with the masculinity of them by making them more female friendly. But I really don't see the harm in making a female character a playable option in more games, because if you don't choose the female then the game doesn't change you at all and it would have no affect on you, but it adds a nice option for women. That's just my thoughts on it though.

Whilst not entirely true, a large majority is correct. Consider a decade preceding, a female lead was naught to be outside fanfiction fantasy, whereas today there exists principle titles supporting female leads; Final Fantasy sits upon the perverbal throne due to its popularity. The four previous games in the series have moved within such a direction. FFX's story was primarily Yuna's struggle with Sin, FFX-2 possessed a entire female cast despite how they were portrayed, FFXII essentially drove Ashe's qualms upon the player and with FFXIII on the horizen, we have a true female main character in Lightning... even if her development seemingly amounts to a Female Cloud.

Xenosaga follows the same ideal, additionally few if any open ended roleplaying games such as Dragon Origins, Jade Empire or Mass Effect do not have storyline playable from either gender perspective. Such remains ambiguous with the proper pronoun and interactions altered.

For the topic described, I hold little by means of intrigued toward media established propaganda and play games which tickle my fancy, so to speak. A poorly portrayed female with massive breasts cannot escape the aforementioned and my interest of her either reverts to boredom or a desire to witness her death, thus she is not a further bother. I avoid porn because I find it horrendously tedious, thus I do not appreciate games with horrible character develops with sex appeal. Tis not the reason I play them.

 

[Aesir23]

I actually like games that allow me to shoot a zombie's head off better then a game with a talking unicorn.

Same here. I'll take shooting a zombie's head off with a shotgun over a game with a unicorn any day of the week.

How about a compromise? You ride unicorns that gore zombies with its horn and trample them underfoot.

Deal. But I get to keep my shotgun.

 

[tirsden]

Adding my 2cp as a girl gamer (or at least, my body is female... *pokes it* ...meh). I know perfectly well that I can pick up a title with good characterization, storytelling, etc. that isn't even specifically aimed at girls, but at anyone who wants to play a game like that (RPG, JRPG, whatever). I also know I can pick up a shooter and blow things to gory smithereens and have just as much fun if that's what I'm in the mood for. I "get it" because I'm a gamer. I have no problem with the gaming industry or who it thinks it's targeting. Technically, it's targeting me right along with all the other gamers, whatever gender they are.

As a chick, I am not allowed to think other chicks are hot? Come ON. Now, the stereotypical girl who is not a gamer will probably not "get it" and I have very little in common with women like that. They can keep on talking about kids and makeup and Edward Cullen *gag I typed the words* and I will keep on rackin' up XP, stealing cars and crashing into cops, and fraggin' my happy arse off. If I feel girly I will go gay it up in Sims. And I do mean that quite literally. XD

*blows a kiss* Now excuse me, I have a prisoner to go chat up for a key with my Riddick knockoff in Dragon Age Origins.

 

[flora]

I really don't think it's asking that much to be able to play as a girl. It's not about what's marketed to what gender, because different people will invariably like different things. Hell, I'm sure plenty of you guys picked up Cooking Mama. The point is that there isn't enough representation, and if there is, she's a side character, and she's rarely used more more than mere titillation. Things are slowly getting better, but for every Left 4 Dead we get shit like Bayonetta.

This is where the arguement loses me. Why do you need to play as a girl? Because you are? I am a guy who is not 300 pounds of muscle. I don't know how to pilot a spaceship or plane. I don't run around blasting aliens in power armor. I don't wear 100 pounds of metal armor and run around fighting goblins with a 2 handed axe. So why isn't the industry doing a better job of representing me? I think they are discriminating against the average Joe as well. Every game should star an average person who works 9 - 5 to feed thier family.

But you are being represented, and that's the difference. Not to mention that the very description you just mentioned is a very positive idealization of a man. These male protagonists are physically attractive, skilled in combat, intelligent, and save the day. However, the creation process of ingame female characters seems to stop at merely being something nice to look at, and more often then not, serve as a love intrest for the main character. Sorry, but that's something a pair of tits attached to a post could do. At best it's just plain sexist, and at worst, it says an awful lot about how these designers (and their target audiences) view women.

Nowhere did I say that there is discrimination against women going on, but there is misrepresentation (again, if any representation is present at all), and objectification of them.

 

[flora]

Well, there is some validity in what you say, but its not entirely accurate. Games ARE marketed to men by putting large breasted women on them, its just that not all of us fall for it. Just look at Evony. It blatantly advertises its product with tits, and there aren't even any female characters, or any characters, in the game because its an RTS.

I think that women look at men in general as more sexist than we actually are, but there definitely is some of that going on.

Evony should NOT be an example.

The marketers for evony are idiots, pure and simple.

Do you have ANY IDEA how annoying it is to have those photos on the side of my page?!

If I want porn, I'll look at goddamn porn!

anyways, I don't see a whole lot of discrimination going on here. Most of the game developers of the current day/obviously "sexxy" games are developers who grew up on pong, atari, and super nintendo. They had some crazy ideas for some fantasy world's based on their geekdom-dreams. Lara Croft, for example, was probably conceived as any normal action, adventure, shooting game until one of the developers said, "WOULDN'T IT BE FUNNIEZ IF WE PUT BEWBZ ON HER?! LAWLZ LAWLZ LAWLZ LAWLZ LAWLZ!!!"

Immaturity? Sure. And of course, this probably wasn't exactly what happened and I understand part of it was a marketing ploy. But to say their discriminating against women? That's farce. It's more like they're being stupid.

like the marketers for Evony.

There ARE games out there that have female characters. In Halo 3 ODST, wasn't a female the leader of the squad? In Final Fantasy X the real hero was a female, and in its sequel, you directly played as a female.

And let's face it, the majority of gamers ARE men, so they're gonna be marketed towards the most. There's NOTHING wrong with that. Of course, the way in which that marketing is applied is important (evony, I'm talking to you), but it simply is good strategy to market towards men.

It's sort of like if an African American was upset that the Congress is made up of mostly white people even though African Americans are not only a minority to whites, but are also becoming a minority to hispanics. Why would there be equal amounts of African Americans and caucasians in Congress? (Note: I'm not saying discrimination doesn't happen, an argument could be made that the amount of African Americans compared to caucasians is disproportional, but that's not the point)

In reality, I think what girl gamers want is more games geared for them and less of the ridiculous sex-appeal. There's nothing wrong with that. They want more games they can relate to, more games where they feel for their character, and more games that they feel accustomed to. There's nothing wrong with that. But to go off on this big hoopla about sexism in gaming is distracting from the real issue. Yes there's sexism in many places in gaming, yes attention should be called to it, but it shouldn't be the spear tip of this "controversy". the spear tip should be awakening developers to the fact there's a portion of the market that's yearning to be tapped into.

Yes, yes and yes. Thank you.

 

[historybuff]

Bah. I don't like fashion or cute fuzzy things or children. I get enough of that stereotype, thank you.


I don't ***** about the gaming market. Because I enjoy guns and cars and stuff. Maybe you shouldn't assume that all girls give a shit?

When a poorly dressed skank comes on the screen, I roll my eyes and then ignore her. I know why she's there and so I just ignore it.

It would be nice to maybe have a female character who wasn't either completely worthless or a total ***** but I certainly don't expect that, given the minority of women who play video games. Besides, I play games so much as a male character that I'm totally used to it. It doesn't bother me.