Can an american explain me their view on their military?

[UrbanCohort]

Realistically, I think 90% of it is propaganda. I know a bunch of guys in the military and they're all stand up individuals, but no nation gets as strong as the US is by playing "the game" 100% straight.

That said, I think that aside from being a fireman (which I am not, for the record), being a soldier and defending your nation is probably the highest calling out there...

 

[Qtoy]

I hold the U.S. military in the same regard as every other military- that they're armed men/women that are trained to kill or assist in killing, and the fact that we need such a group of people around at any given time is a testament to how humans can be WORSE than animals.

YEAH! How dare they kill living beings of the same species of them! That's way worse than animals because no other animal on Earth does that!

Most soldiers are just following orders. Some may not be willing to do, however they will because if they dont a long prison sentence awaits them

Ever read about the Nuremberg trials?

I think what he meant was that, had the soldiers in question not followed orders, they get court-martialed. So, either way, they might end up screwed. Safer to follow the person in the immediate area who outranks you and has a gun and could have you turned over to authorites or summarily executed.
Of course, I may have misinterpreted you there and I may have made the wrong assumption of what you meant.

OT: Another thing I'd like to point out is the immense hmanitarian support. I gotta respect that.

 

[Marik2]

...Why do I get the feeling this thread will quickly turn ugly?

 

[Truth Cake]

We are no worse than animals. predatory animals kill things. Most predatory animals are trained from birth to hunt and kill other animals. Oftentimes in herds or packs of animals they even kill each other in disputes over mates or leadership and whatnot.

Humans fight other groups of humans to acquire resources or to be the best or prove they are the strongest. We kill each over all sorts of things just as animals. the only difference is we're smarter than animals so we developed tools that make killing easier. If animals were smarter they would do the same thing.

We are no better or worse than any animal.

Killing for survival and killing for the various reasons humans kill for are two totally different things- predatory animals kill their prey for survival, that's fine; humans kill cows and other domestic farm animals for beef and such, that's for survival and public health, so that's fine; but humans killing each other over... oil? Over some dispute over some little spit of land? Over gold? Does a human NEED gold to survive? No, thus the reason for killing is hollow.

And as for animals killing each other in disputes over mates and such- that's just one-on-one fights over personal problems, we're talking entire military action or whatever the equivalent in animals would be, if any could be considered, not 'That guy fucked my wife, so I'm going to kill him!'.

 

[UrbanCohort]

America always instills an ideal of the American Soldier fighting for the sake of the citizens' freedom/ liberty/ life according to the "american dream".

I have a great amount of respect for members of the US military, though I don't share the belief that they are all heroes, and it will be a cold day in hell when I believe that we have fought a war in the past fifty years against an enemy which posed any legitimate threat to our "liberties".

So the group al-queda isnt a threat to our freedom? and they are,were,whatever, a legit threat.

Is there enough of a chance of them successfully enslaving our country to warrant the trillions of dollars, and thousands of American lives we have spent over the past decade trying to dismantle the group?

I won't say they're a threat to our liberty, but they're an active threat to our lives...that's reason enough to dismantle them.

 

[Low Key]

I hold the U.S. military in the same regard as every other military- that they're armed men/women that are trained to kill or assist in killing, and the fact that we need such a group of people around at any given time is a testament to how humans can be WORSE than animals.

The soldiers themselves though, I treat them as any other human, nothing special.

Worse than animals? You do realize animals kill each other over territories and resources too right?

I do fully realize that, but do animals have so many of their own solely (spelling?) dedicated JUST to fight over territory and resources and not to, say, gathering food? Very few do, I can only think of ants and wolves- aren't humans supposed to be better, not the same or worse?

Tell that to the martial artists who learn animal styles. We get a lot of our traits from animals in the wild, and we are in fact animals ourselves. We just happen to be the most intelligent of them.

 

[Rex Fallout]

We have the worlds largest volunteer military. I am able to go to college, learn about computer programming and graphics design because they exist. They have all of the possible respect and reverence I have to give them. I personally would refuse to fight for a nation that doesn't support my ideals (it's own supposed ideals for that matter) by choice unless we are invaded, but the men and women who do serve are among our best and bravest. Our nation is only so powerful, because of their sacrifices.

 

[Truth Cake]

I hold the U.S. military in the same regard as every other military- that they're armed men/women that are trained to kill or assist in killing, and the fact that we need such a group of people around at any given time is a testament to how humans can be WORSE than animals.

YEAH! How dare they kill living beings of the same species of them! That's way worse than animals because no other animal on Earth does that!

Yeah... way to completely miss the point of my argument- it's not the fact that the killing is being done, it's the REASON it's happening and the fact that we need such a power around to defend us in case some rich politician farts out of turn or whatever pathetic excuse a country needs to go to war.

When elephants declare war on mosquitoes for making an unsightly sore on their leader's skin, let me know.

 

[walrusaurus]

As has been pointed out the American Military is a volunteer force, so theres a certain degree of valor implicit in membership. Beyond that it in large part stems from our history. For better or worse we've been at war pretty much constantly for 70 years, and i daresay that an american soldier is quite a bit more likely to be put in harms way than those of any other developed nation. AS a byproduct of that our culture has developed a sort of hyper-militaristic nationalism with regards to the military. "Supporting the troops" has been used as a rhetorical bludgeon by our politicians for decades. In the wake of 9/11 our culture has reached the point to where its no longer socially acceptable to question the military. Macho military posturing is expected of our politicians and thats likely where your seeing a lot of the 'oorah' military brandishing.

 

[pcsforeducation]

Let me preface my response with this: My dad was in the Navy, one Grandpa in the Army, the other in the Air Force (POW in WWII), and my uncle was a Colonel in the Rangers. I have friends actively serving and deployed.

I thank them for signing up and being ready to defend my country and lay their life down to defend our freedoms and country. However, I don't understand how people keep signing up for the military at this point, considering we're in 2 wars that have long since run their course, and I don't think Libya is ending any time soon, though our minimal engagement now makes that less of a concern. Frankly, at this point our soldiers aren't so much defending our freedoms and rights as being the world police in place of the UN. I think the amount of people still joining has a lot to do with the nationalism a lot of our country feels (America is the best, etc), and families like mine where it is almost expected that you join. During times of real threat (WWII was a great example), I wouldn't hesitate to join, but as of right now, it would take conscription to get me to join. When people come back from a tour of duty, there is certainly a bunch of prestige given to them, so that may draw some people in. And I'm sure there is a certain draw for people to join the most advanced military in the world.

On the political side though, a decent portion of the country would like to see military spending cut dramatically (not sure if that is +/- half). In 2008, our spending on the military was over $700 billion (revenue was hovering around $2 trillion..so about 1/3 of our money went towards just the military). Europe (the whole continent, not any single country) spent about $240 billion, and everyone else spent less than that. We certainly need a defensive military, but at this point we can't help but be the world's police, because otherwise we'd never get to show off our cool weapons. But that's a different debate, really.

 

[maturin]

Nothing American about militarism. Go ask a Russian the same question.

 

[aei_haruko]

Sorry for the weird title. Well obviously I am not american myself, and some people might find this post a little weird. I have been thinking about this for some time now. Well here is the thing;

Browsing pages such as 4chan.org, imgur and reddit.com, I find people making fun of basicly everything. Except one thing. The US Military. Everytime its about them it all about heroes, "oorah" (some kind of Marine slogan?) and thanks.

Being born in a country with conscription (Denmark), being in the military really isn't that big a deal. Was in the Army Fire Deparmtent myself. Many males of the danish population has been in the military for a certain amount of time, so the military isn't really that much of an romantic institution. It's just a job.

But during my travels last year in the US, and also on the internet, the military is almost sacred. Every word of criticism is met with harsh reprisals, and sorry to say so, but I just don't get it.

Anyways, what I am most curious about is why it is this way? It's not that I think anythings wrong with it, but I must admit that the praise and respect seems a bit excessive in my eyes. Being a hero (which americans use a lot when talking about their troops) in my country is something you have to earn through action. Not by just signing up.

I'm curious, so if any american browsing the site could spare a few minutes to tell me why they pay their respects, it would be much appreciated.

well, I'd have to say that we ( not speaking on behalf of all americans, just saying what the view up here in missouri is)
We view the millitary as a group of people who sign up to defend our freedoms, and that because people have given their lives around the world to the defence of our freedoms which we have held in the highest regard, we honor them. And when there are such noble acts that our millitary has done ( I know, we aren't perfect, I'm talking about the soldiers, not the wars) such as giving their lives to save their soldiers, we really respect them, and when people mock that, we get infuriated. does this help?

 

[Truth Cake]

Tell that to the martial artists who learn animal styles. We get a lot of our traits from animals in the wild, and we are in fact animals ourselves. We just happen to be the most intelligent of them.

So... what does martial arts have to do with the military? You kinda lost me in that transition...

So if humans are animals just the same, then, say, a mouse's life and existence should be worth the same as any humans? Or are humans better than common animals in everything EXCEPT fighting wars? Considering I have yet to see lions declare war on eagles for stealing their prey or whatever, I think animals make more logical sense by being much simpler.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Its probably due to the role the US Military tends to play compared to that of many other nations. First off the US Military is all volunteer. Someone has to want to do the job to join. In many conscript militaries they are just there because they have to. The US military also finds itself fighting more often than that of other western nations. This keeps the relevant and meaningful to the pubic so they are always seen as necessary. In nations such as Finland and Switzerland there are conscript militaries that are rarely utilized and their members often serve very short terms(the Finns serving sometimes short as 6 months) while American terms are required a minimum of two years active and six years reserve. Most serve longer than that. The combination of volunteerism and the much higher likelihood of going to war makes the American military much more of a commitment than that of many other western countries, at least to the public.

That being said, a lot of people really over do it. I am joining the Air Force and I don't get near as riled up as a lot of people who will never wear a uniform in their life. Not everyone in the military is a hero. More likely to be a respectable individual? Certainly. But the military has assholes just like every other group.

 

[UrbanCohort]

Tell that to the martial artists who learn animal styles. We get a lot of our traits from animals in the wild, and we are in fact animals ourselves. We just happen to be the most intelligent of them.

So... what does martial arts have to do with the military? You kinda lost me in that transition...

So if humans are animals just the same, then, say, a mouse's life and existence should be worth the same as any humans? Or are humans better than common animals in everything EXCEPT fighting wars? Considering I have yet to see lions declare war on eagles for stealing their prey or whatever, I think animals make more logical sense by being much simpler.

Yeah, but lions kill each other all the time over simple matters of dominance...then they kill the loser's cubs too.

And, don't quote me on this, but I think he was referencing that the "animal" martial arts were inspired from animals who are better suited to killing than humans...or something, he kind of lost me too, but I can sort of see where he's coming from...but I sort of can't...?

 

[Jegsimmons]

America always instills an ideal of the American Soldier fighting for the sake of the citizens' freedom/ liberty/ life according to the "american dream".

I have a great amount of respect for members of the US military, though I don't share the belief that they are all heroes, and it will be a cold day in hell when I believe that we have fought a war in the past fifty years against an enemy which posed any legitimate threat to our "liberties".

So the group al-queda isnt a threat to our freedom? and they are,were,whatever, a legit threat.

Is there enough of a chance of them successfully enslaving our country to warrant the trillions of dollars, and thousands of American lives we have spent over the past decade trying to dismantle the group?

thats doesnt mean they wont try, hell they kill 3000 people in one day for no fucking reason.
thats a fucking legit threat.

 

[DracoSuave]

Being born in a country with conscription

I think that's your problem. To you the army is no big deal, everyone does it. In the US and Canada the entire army is a professional volunteer force. Everyone who does it could be doing something else, they serve because they want to make a difference. They willingly put themselves in harms way to defend their fellow man, and I personally think it's a noble cause and that soldiers are heroes. But I plan to join up myself after high school when I'm around 20-ish, so maybe I'm biased.

The US has conscription, it just isn't used currently. If the US were at war with a superpower, or against a country that required greater troop involvement... then it would conscript, like it always has.

It's only because this hasn't happened since vietnam that you have an army of volunteers. This will change when the US gets involved in something truly heavy.