Can an american explain me their view on their military?

[Kolby Jack]

-snip-

Can I just say something? The whole argument over whether or not humans are "better" than animals is pointless. Animals are just that: animals. They operate almost entirely on instinct and the vast majority of them don't even understand that they are alive. They eat. They have sex. They poop. They rest. They poop again. All for the biologically programmed goal of keeping the species alive.

Humans do all that too and for the very same reasons, but we also transcend those reasons to pursue our curiosity and ambition. We know we are alive. We know we can and will die. Our ability to reason surpasses any other known creature thousands of times. And yes, we do some crazy, stupid, and even evil things with our knowledge, but we do just as much if not more good things too. But whether or not we do good or evil doesn't really matter in comparison to animals, because they don't even know what good or evil is.

 

[IceStar100]

I respect the soldier not the army. Hell I have little respect for the Marine core they indoctrante not train. Even other branch can take a joke the Marin need to thump his chest 90% of the time. I happen to have the dishoner of living next to many of them. I get it your kill mechine just go somewhere else and kill.

 

[Truth Cake]

I must throw in my 2 cents here. Respond or not, here it comes:

First let me see if I'm on the right page. You believe conflicts (man vs man, lion vs. lion) are ok as long as the focal point of the conflict is survival. Either it be for food or some other resource, survival is ok. You disagree with conflicts over "nonessential", such as gold or oil. Right so far? General gist? I'll take your stony silence for a yes.

Now the 2 cents. I believe (therefore is of my opinion) that every human armed conflict, War, from the start of history to today has been and will always be about survival. Not survival for the individual, no sir. The survival of the Nation is what war is raged over.

Oil for instance is useless to a biological human being. He can't eat it, and he really can't use it to ensure his genetic line will continue. It's useless to him. But a nation can rise or fall because of oil. Gold is the same story. Useless to me biologically. But gold can bring wealth to a nation. In this case a county's very survival is not threatened but the rewards from this conflict go towards the betterment of the nation, increasing it's chance for survival.

I'm going to keep this short but just one more blurb before I return to the dusty halls from which I came. Two animals fighting -- be it lions, tigers, bears, etc. -- fight for one thing: To ensure that the best genetic line survives to the next generation. And nations do too. I like to think of the nations of the earth as being [giant amoebas]* that fight each other so that in the end only the strongest one will remain.

*Insert any organism. I think amoebas are cool. =D

Of course I'm going to argue, despite the fact that I probably shouldn't and I know I'm not going to convince you.

So war is ok with you as long as someone wins? Why must the weak die so the strong can prove their ego? Do you think you're fit enough that you could survive a war? I'm pretty sure I won't, and the next great thinker or scientist might not be, either. War doesn't make us stronger, it makes us weaker by killing off a man who might find a cure for that next pandemic... or his child that might paint the next Mona Lisa- need I go on?

 

[StarCecil]

Sorry for the weird title. Well obviously I am not american myself, and some people might find this post a little weird. I have been thinking about this for some time now. Well here is the thing;

Browsing pages such as 4chan.org, imgur and reddit.com, I find people making fun of basicly everything. Except one thing. The US Military. Everytime its about them it all about heroes, "oorah" (some kind of Marine slogan?) and thanks.

Being born in a country with conscription (Denmark), being in the military really isn't that big a deal. Was in the Army Fire Deparmtent myself. Many males of the danish population has been in the military for a certain amount of time, so the military isn't really that much of an romantic institution. It's just a job.

But during my travels last year in the US, and also on the internet, the military is almost sacred. Every word of criticism is met with harsh reprisals, and sorry to say so, but I just don't get it.

Anyways, what I am most curious about is why it is this way? It's not that I think anythings wrong with it, but I must admit that the praise and respect seems a bit excessive in my eyes. Being a hero (which americans use a lot when talking about their troops) in my country is something you have to earn through action. Not by just signing up.

I'm curious, so if any american browsing the site could spare a few minutes to tell me why they pay their respects, it would be much appreciated.

First off I have to thank you for asking the way you did. Most people either say Fuck the troops or Respect them. Also most people that ask normally ask in a manner that is just straight demeaning.

First the U.S military is voluntary. (well it is now anyhow) If you sign up you sign for one of a few reasons. 1. You feel the need to serve your country 2. No other opportunities in your area (if you look alot of the military is what we call corn fed as in from the midwest where its you become a farmer or the military) 3. Kind of a family thing. (dad did it grandpa did it)

Why do people regard our troops in such a high manner, well It's what they do. Where they go. They are by no means the heartless killers some put them out to believe. When you see a video of a sniper killing an enemy it's not because they are heartless and are happy they killed someone, It's because they finally got someone who has been shooting at them.

Most people also know that if you dislike what they do its not the soldier's fault. It's the politicians fault and there is no reason to yell at the soldier. Most every soldier even if they disagree with the order will carry it out to his or her fullest extent. Not all of them are heroes, But the ones that are went above and beyond to make sure someone else lived even if they died.

If I'm missing something just ask.

"Corn Fed"? Ouch, dude, I'm from Kansas!

But, seriously, I've found that most people joined the military because they really wanted to be a part of the military. Certainly there's a variety of hard luck stories but by and large most folks join because they really, really wanted to be a part of the military and everything that entails.

When I was in the DEP there was a number of kids my age from my local area, and we all agreed that our number one reason for joining the Marines was to be a Marine. Certainly there were benefits, financial and otherwise, but those were all secondary to that burning desire to be a part of the Marine Corps.

Of course, the Marines tend to play up that sentiment in a sort of "Do you think you can be us?" sort of way. The Army, I hear, tends to be more about "we have all these jobs!".

O GOD KANSAS!!! you have wheat not corn I am sorry. Marines is a little different on that fact. I don't know a marine who is a marine for any other reason than. I WANT TO BE A MARINE! PARIS ISLAND WAS FUN. I EAT BULLETS AND SHIT AWESOME!

Yep, yep. That's par for the course. I went to Camp Pendleton, San Diego, though. Big difference.

 

[Truth Cake]

I respect the soldier not the army. Hell I have little respect for the Marine core they indoctrante not train. Even other branch can take a joke the Marin need to thump his chest 90% of the time. I happen to have the dishoner of living next to many of them. I get it your kill mechine just go somewhere else and kill.

Wouldn't it be better if they didn't need to kill at all? Also, try using commas and seperate paragraphs, it'll make it much easier to read.

 

[Truth Cake]

Can I just say something? The whole argument over whether or not humans are "better" than animals is pointless. Animals are just that: animals. They operate almost entirely on instinct and the vast majority of them don't even understand that they are alive. They eat. They have sex. They poop. They rest. They poop again. All for the biologically programmed goal of keeping the species alive.

Humans do all that too and for the very same reasons, but we also transcend those reasons to pursue our curiosity and ambition. We know we are alive. We know we can and will die. Our ability to reason surpasses any other known creature thousands of times. And yes, we do some crazy, stupid, and even evil things with our knowledge, but we do just as much if not more good things too. But whether or not we do good or evil doesn't really matter in comparison to animals, because they don't even know what good or evil is.

Yes, but why? If humans are so much more advanced thinkers than animals who have the same needs, why must we kill like them? I know we do good things with our knowledge, but why can't we be rid of the bad things, too?

That's what I want to know- if we're smarter, why do we kill each other just the same as the animals we claim ourselved better than? Can't we do better there, too?

 

[MaVeN1337]

The ladies and gentlemen in the military are brave, strong, and determined. Their is no question there. But I have trouble describing them as "Heroes" I don't see why the hell we still need to be in the middle east in the first place anymore, which is strange because I used to be all "Nuke the middle east." around a few years after 9/11 happened :/

 

[IceStar100]

I respect the soldier not the army. Hell I have little respect for the Marine core they indoctrante not train. Even other branch can take a joke the Marin need to thump his chest 90% of the time. I happen to have the dishoner of living next to many of them. I get it your kill mechine just go somewhere else and kill.

Wouldn't it be better if they didn't need to kill at all? Also, try using commas and seperate paragraphs, it'll make it much easier to read.

I would but tired and typing on an andriod phone make a lousy combantion.

Anyway that never going to happen we have to much warrior or are blood thirty you might as well ask would it not be better if we all lived in a paradice with no hunger,hate, need of money, where everyone one woke up everyday and could not wait to get started. Simple fact is really is not a nice place. It's why I never stay long.

 

[Truth Cake]

I would but tired and typing on an andriod phone make a lousy combantion.

Anyway that never going to happen we have to much warrior or are blood thirty you might as well ask would it not be better if we all lived in a paradice with no hunger,hate, need of money, where everyone one woke up everyday and could not wait to get started. Simple fact is really is not a nice place. It's why I never stay long.

Alright, poor grammar excuse is accepted, but why must be be so hungry for war? Fool's pride, being the simple answer; just simple, and folly.

 

[UrbanCohort]

I'd completely support our military if it was defending the country from invasion, but our military is bombing, invading, and occupying other countries, which has nothing to do with keeping us safe or protecting our freedoms. I'd argue it makes us less safe, which I obviously can't support.

It might seem that way, but one little fact makes your argument slightly incorrect - they attacked first, and they most certainly will attack again if we leave them alone. Our presence in their country has everything to do with protecting the US.

I suggest you do some research on our actions in the Middle East since the 1950's. We've been interfering in Middle eastern affairs for as long as I can remember and 9/11 was retaliation for our actions. It isn't a fact that they attacked first.

Okay, sure. We TRAINED THEM to fight against the Russians, and I suppose in retaliation for our sheer gall at helping them overthrow communist invaders they decided that killing tens of thousands of us would show us the error of our previously helpful ways. I'm not sure which one of us needs to brush up on their history...

We've been interfering in the middle East long before that. In 1953 America was involved in overthrowing the Prime Minister of Iran.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html

I've been pondering how to say this for a while, but it occurs to me that the Afghani soldiers who we trained to fight the invading communists (and who subsequently went on to train Al Qaeda soldiers) likely wouldn't care about the loss of a pro-communist PM from Iran.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

First of all, we're a big country. We don't all share the same opinion. Some people think they're "babykillers", some people think they're all war heroes. Me? I fall somewhere in between, but much closer to the "war hero" side of the scale. I do believe that soldiers who have served in a conflict absolutely deserve our respect.

 

[SodaDew]

Americans(like myself) usually have a family member or friend in the military, and why we hold it so close is that the military is what created the U.S.A and without it America would not be here.

 

[MoosieMann]

I hold the U.S. military in the same regard as every other military- that they're armed men/women that are trained to kill or assist in killing, and the fact that we need such a group of people around at any given time is a testament to how humans can be WORSE than animals.

The soldiers themselves though, I treat them as any other human, nothing special.

Worse than animals? You do realize animals kill each other over territories and resources too right?

I do fully realize that, but do animals have so many of their own solely (spelling?) dedicated JUST to fight over territory and resources and not to, say, gathering food? Very few do, I can only think of ants and wolves- aren't humans supposed to be better, not the same or worse?

The reason you can't think of many examples is that mostly only animals that live in colonies or groups do this. Humans, in a broad sense, live in colonies. What sets us apart from other animals is that we are able to fight for an ideal, a cause, something more than just survival. Our behavior as a species is not any better than animals, because we still are animals. The military doesn't fight for themselves. They fight for whatever their country believes in, because they believe in their country. We don't breed soldiers. We breed people. Who step up and above the masses to fight for the country they love. No one said they enjoy killing.

 

[Hectix777]

For one thing US military service is voluntary not conscription, so people hold soldiers in high regard because they volunteer to lay down their life for the sake of the common good. The second thing is that the military is basically the tool that founded the USA. We weren't already in existence or granted freedom by protest or appeal, we fought and died for it. In a sense the modern military is the direct descendant of the Continental Army of the Thirteen Colonies, so we respect it in the sense of what they do and continue to do. A lot of pop culture in the USA romanticizes the US army and their soldiers, no clue why. Maybe because it appeals to our history of being born by the musket rather than the quill, maybe its to brain wash us to serve, who knows. All I know is this: The US army is big and powerful, they protect the US and police the world, they rebuilt countries and cities and changed nations, and you do not bad mouth them.

 

[IceStar100]

I would but tired and typing on an andriod phone make a lousy combantion.

Anyway that never going to happen we have to much warrior or are blood thirty you might as well ask would it not be better if we all lived in a paradice with no hunger,hate, need of money, where everyone one woke up everyday and could not wait to get started. Simple fact is really is not a nice place. It's why I never stay long.

Alright, poor grammar excuse is accepted, but why must be be so hungry for war? Fool's pride, being the simple answer; just simple, and folly.

Call it pride call it greed call it what ever it's in the blood. I do wish we could be more peaceful. Since the first man kill his another and saw it was easier to kill a man and take his stuff then it is to work for it.

We will fight for anything heck as a Christon we humans fight over things we can't even prove. I wish I had an aswer I really do TC. The simple fact is we are not as far removed from the cave man as we like.

 

[Wintermute_]

Snip

Its... complicated. For me at least. Bear with me.
This is all IMO of course, but I absolutely detest the level of militarism my country (USA) exhibits. As it stands, half of my life has been spent with troops actively engaged abroad, and that is not OK.
The United States does indeed have the largest most powerful military in the world, and are (or where) the strongest economically (still fairly powerful I'd say) and are some of the most privileged people on the planet, in history really. It kills me to see the amount of effort we exert on militaristic endeavors, spending billions upon billions of dollars every year in an effort to more efficiently blow the fuck out of some bastard halfway around the world. WHY? I've seen morbid slums and urban area's that could have used those billions in renewal. Couldn't have dumped a little of that into, I don't know, cancer research? Social projects? Know what the ultimate goal of the soldier is? To kill the enemy, even if that enemy will never be a threat to the USA as a nation. I see so many better uses for the money we spend on maintaining as big an army as we do, even if they're all volunteers, its superfluous.
Perhaps the ideal of USA patriotism being associated with the soldier (seen Captain America yet? You should...) is what causes many of use to overbearingly support our excessively large military as much as we do.

HOWEVER...My cousin is a Marine and has spent two tours and some 8 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, the middle east in general. I respect the shit out of that man. Despite my... spite for the armed forces, I know there will always be necessity for them, and yes, they are volunteers, and some of the brightest along with some of the dumbest men and women apply. My cousin, after working in the military and receiving training as an electrical engineer of sorts, makes a six figure salary, and put himself through college working as a marine.
The people that come out of the Marines, army, whatever armed force, are some of the best and brightest citizens America has to offer. I respect them, even if I don't always agree with what our nation uses them for.
...plus they could kill me 30 some ways in under 2 seconds using only a pencil. Intimidating skill that...

 

[BigCat91]

Well, it's complicated. On one hand the military is always used as both a political and personal weapon for many americans on american soil. "What you don't think we should invade Iran? You must clearly hate your own country." Sadly that's actually the basis of the debate. If you don't back the U.S. military actions, your not american.

Not to mention i feel their methods to recruit are both morally low, and a huge step backwards from a civilized society trying to make progress. I say this because the military loves to recruit inner city youth and poor who feel they have no chance on college or improve their life without an act of god. So what they do is offer thousands of dollars up front in return for possibly losing one's life. If they don't die they make below 50,000 dollars for low ranking soldiers, as their chances of dieing increase exponentially. Not to mention i can not walk around my high school without being grabbed by a military recruiter on my way to my next class. I am sorry if this may offend you but i value knowledge and the growth of a human being, more then expanding american Imperialism. Ex) army bases all around the world in every country.

Now do i respect the people who actually fight? You bet i do, i live near a military base and i try and help out those families as much as i can. Military families have a rough life and no one ever acknowledges it, which is the biggest shame...just shows you how much the government really does value its soldiers...we don't even give good aid if these families lose their loved ones....America f--- yea?

 

[Jake0fTrades]

It has a lot to do with...

Spoiler: ...this...

Spoiler: ...and this.

During the Cold War, it was widely accepted that there were two major superpowers, the USSR and the USA, after the USSR dissolved in 1991, that just left the USA as the big man on campus. Even though things aren't as good as they used to be, nothing major has happened to show us we're not the top dog anymore.

 

[Black Watch]

I treat the soldiers, marines, airmen, and the sailors as if they were my own flesh and blood. Because at some point in their life, they decided that they wanted to sacrifice some of their own freedoms to protect my sorry ass.

 

[AkaDad]

I'd completely support our military if it was defending the country from invasion, but our military is bombing, invading, and occupying other countries, which has nothing to do with keeping us safe or protecting our freedoms. I'd argue it makes us less safe, which I obviously can't support.

It might seem that way, but one little fact makes your argument slightly incorrect - they attacked first, and they most certainly will attack again if we leave them alone. Our presence in their country has everything to do with protecting the US.

I suggest you do some research on our actions in the Middle East since the 1950's. We've been interfering in Middle eastern affairs for as long as I can remember and 9/11 was retaliation for our actions. It isn't a fact that they attacked first.

Okay, sure. We TRAINED THEM to fight against the Russians, and I suppose in retaliation for our sheer gall at helping them overthrow communist invaders they decided that killing tens of thousands of us would show us the error of our previously helpful ways. I'm not sure which one of us needs to brush up on their history...

We've been interfering in the middle East long before that. In 1953 America was involved in overthrowing the Prime Minister of Iran.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html

I've been pondering how to say this for a while, but it occurs to me that the Afghani soldiers who we trained to fight the invading communists (and who subsequently went on to train Al Qaeda soldiers) likely wouldn't care about the loss of a pro-communist PM from Iran.

If China, Russia, or some other country was involved in overthrowing an American President or was involved in the assassination of John Kennedy, wouldn't you want to retaliate? I know I would and I think most Americans would.