Captain Marvel or How Marvel does everything better than everyone else

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Thor and Iron Man etc overcome their arrogance and learn to be humble, Carol doesn't. I'll focus on Thor since entire plot of Thor 1 is that he's a giant arrogant dickhole and until he stops being one he's not going to be a suitable leader. Thor's arrogance leads to him nearly getting all his friends killed and reigniting a war. Arrogance is not a heroic trait because it results in people getting hurt which is the opposite of what a hero should be doing. Tony Stark's arrogance leads to middle eastern civilians getting killed, Strange's arrogance is a bit more indirect but hes shown as being a surgeon who can preform operations others can't. So the a surgeon of his level losing fine motor skills means that people he could have saved won't be.

I don't remember Quill, being arrogant though. He sacrifices himself TWICE in one film for his friends. Maybe you're confusing confidence for arrogance? As I said, Carol has no heroic moment. You said yourself she endangers her squad in the opening scene.

Also the point of Civil War was that there is no "right" side sometimes and honestly, it was a bad choice of plotline for a film because the themes aren't really suitable for capeshit films. The comic storyline was a bit more nuanced because it had the room to explore different parts of the argument. A big aspect being that Government registration would require heroes to reveal their identities which wasn't an issue in the MCU because none of the heroes at the time really had a secret identity.

 

[Trunkage]

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Thor and Iron Man etc overcome their arrogance and learn to be humble, Carol doesn't. I'll focus on Thor since entire plot of Thor 1 is that he's a giant arrogant dickhole and until he stops being one he's not going to be a suitable leader. Thor's arrogance leads to him nearly getting all his friends killed and reigniting a war. Arrogance is not a heroic trait because it results in people getting hurt which is the opposite of what a hero should be doing. Tony Stark's arrogance leads to middle eastern civilians getting killed, Strange's arrogance is a bit more indirect but hes shown as being a surgeon who can preform operations others can't. So the a surgeon of his level losing fine motor skills means that people he could have saved won't be.

I don't remember Quill, being arrogant though. He sacrifices himself TWICE in one film for his friends. Maybe you're confusing confidence for arrogance? As I said, Carol has no heroic moment. You said yourself she endangers her squad in the opening scene.

Also the point of Civil War was that there is no "right" side sometimes and honestly, it was a bad choice of plotline for a film because the themes aren't really suitable for capeshit films. The comic storyline was a bit more nuanced because it had the room to explore different parts of the argument. A big aspect being that Government registration would require heroes to reveal their identities which wasn't an issue in the MCU because none of the heroes at the time really had a secret identity.

Didn't Danvers sacrifice herself to let the Skrulls escape? Fought off her old unit?

Also, Strange and Stark meeting showed that those two have learnt no lessons

 

[Avnger]

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Straight talk? Cause she's a woman. I'm honestly surprised "bossy" and "bitchy" haven't been thrown out in this thread already (or maybe I just missed them).

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Thor and Iron Man etc overcome their arrogance and learn to be humble, Carol doesn't. I'll focus on Thor since entire plot of Thor 1 is that he's a giant arrogant dickhole and until he stops being one he's not going to be a suitable leader. Thor's arrogance leads to him nearly getting all his friends killed and reigniting a war. Arrogance is not a heroic trait because it results in people getting hurt which is the opposite of what a hero should be doing. Tony Stark's arrogance leads to middle eastern civilians getting killed, Strange's arrogance is a bit more indirect but hes shown as being a surgeon who can preform operations others can't. So the a surgeon of his level losing fine motor skills means that people he could have saved won't be.

I don't remember Quill, being arrogant though. He sacrifices himself TWICE in one film for his friends. Maybe you're confusing confidence for arrogance? As I said, Carol has no heroic moment. You said yourself she endangers her squad in the opening scene.

Also the point of Civil War was that there is no "right" side sometimes and honestly, it was a bad choice of plotline for a film because the themes aren't really suitable for capeshit films. The comic storyline was a bit more nuanced because it had the room to explore different parts of the argument. A big aspect being that Government registration would require heroes to reveal their identities which wasn't an issue in the MCU because none of the heroes at the time really had a secret identity.

Didn't Danvers sacrifice herself to let the Skrulls escape? Fought off her old unit?

Also, Strange and Stark meeting showed that those two have learnt no lessons

Again, she didn't sacrifice herself because she knew she vastly overpowered her squad.

As for Stark and Strange they met while an alien ship was invading Manhattan (again) and Stark didn't know who strange was. Suspicion isn't the same as caution.

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Straight talk? Cause she's a woman. I'm honestly surprised "bossy" and "bitchy" haven't been thrown out in this thread already (or maybe I just missed them).

https://youtu.be/2nv1dZCHtm8

Maybe you haven't seen anyone call her bossy or bitchy because no one here is sexist and just dislike her because shes an unlikeable character? Women can be dicks as well.

 

[Saelune]

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Straight talk? Cause she's a woman. I'm honestly surprised "bossy" and "bitchy" haven't been thrown out in this thread already (or maybe I just missed them).

https://youtu.be/2nv1dZCHtm8

Maybe you haven't seen anyone call her bossy or bitchy because no one here is sexist and just dislike her because shes an unlikeable character? Women can be dicks as well.

And yet Captain Marvel is getting more shit for being 'the same' as the other MALE MCU heroes.

And there are definitely people in this very thread who are sexist against women. I'd point them out, but pointing out bigotry tends to be more of a no-no here than actually being bigoted.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Straight talk? Cause she's a woman. I'm honestly surprised "bossy" and "bitchy" haven't been thrown out in this thread already (or maybe I just missed them).

https://youtu.be/2nv1dZCHtm8

Maybe you haven't seen anyone call her bossy or bitchy because no one here is sexist and just dislike her because shes an unlikeable character? Women can be dicks as well.

And yet Captain Marvel is getting more shit for being 'the same' as the other MALE MCU heroes.

And there are definitely people in this very thread who are sexist against women. I'd point them out, but pointing out bigotry tends to be more of a no-no here than actually being bigoted.

1. As I've said, the Marvel MCU isn't a stranger to hubris, but at the end of the film the characters have usually been humbled and learn to not be arseholes.

2. Why do you only chime into the discussion to accuse people of sexism? You haven't really defended the film as just a film as far as I remember, you only comment on the political aspects surrounding it rather than the film itself.

 

[Saelune]

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Straight talk? Cause she's a woman. I'm honestly surprised "bossy" and "bitchy" haven't been thrown out in this thread already (or maybe I just missed them).

https://youtu.be/2nv1dZCHtm8

Maybe you haven't seen anyone call her bossy or bitchy because no one here is sexist and just dislike her because shes an unlikeable character? Women can be dicks as well.

And yet Captain Marvel is getting more shit for being 'the same' as the other MALE MCU heroes.

And there are definitely people in this very thread who are sexist against women. I'd point them out, but pointing out bigotry tends to be more of a no-no here than actually being bigoted.

1. As I've said, the Marvel MCU isn't a stranger to hubris, but at the end of the film the characters have usually been humbled and learn to not be arseholes.

2. Why do you only chime into the discussion to accuse people of sexism? You haven't really defended the film as just a film as far as I remember, you only comment on the political aspects surrounding it rather than the film itself.

Why are you so quick to dismiss the sexism that you repeatedly claim is not real?

Also I made this thread in the first place. I already made my points, and I think the number of people who disparage it because of their own sexism is a big problem. And yes, there are some here who have criticized the film without being sexist too.

Carol is not an asshole by the end of the film. Oh she punched a villain at the end? In what way is she an asshole? I don't see you aiding the remnants of a civilization that you were once lead to believe were monsters but then got over your unfair bias to defend.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

I don't see you aiding the remnants of a civilization that you were once lead to believe were monsters but then got over your unfair bias to defend.

Fucking 10/10 counter argument. I wish this forum had emojis because I'd be typing clapping ones right now if I could.

 

[Trunkage]

snip

Side question. Why is her arrogance so bad for her character? Over Stark's arrogance. Or Thor's. Or Quill's or Strange's. Fury's or Captain America's. I mean, Civil War wouldn't have happened if Stark and Cap weren't so utterly arrogant and they destroyed an airfield and got their buddies locked up.

Argoance is MCU staple. Except for Antman and Hawkeye. And maybe Hulk

Thor and Iron Man etc overcome their arrogance and learn to be humble, Carol doesn't. I'll focus on Thor since entire plot of Thor 1 is that he's a giant arrogant dickhole and until he stops being one he's not going to be a suitable leader. Thor's arrogance leads to him nearly getting all his friends killed and reigniting a war. Arrogance is not a heroic trait because it results in people getting hurt which is the opposite of what a hero should be doing. Tony Stark's arrogance leads to middle eastern civilians getting killed, Strange's arrogance is a bit more indirect but hes shown as being a surgeon who can preform operations others can't. So the a surgeon of his level losing fine motor skills means that people he could have saved won't be.

I don't remember Quill, being arrogant though. He sacrifices himself TWICE in one film for his friends. Maybe you're confusing confidence for arrogance? As I said, Carol has no heroic moment. You said yourself she endangers her squad in the opening scene.

Also the point of Civil War was that there is no "right" side sometimes and honestly, it was a bad choice of plotline for a film because the themes aren't really suitable for capeshit films. The comic storyline was a bit more nuanced because it had the room to explore different parts of the argument. A big aspect being that Government registration would require heroes to reveal their identities which wasn't an issue in the MCU because none of the heroes at the time really had a secret identity.

Didn't Danvers sacrifice herself to let the Skrulls escape? Fought off her old unit?

Also, Strange and Stark meeting showed that those two have learnt no lessons

Again, she didn't sacrifice herself because she knew she vastly overpowered her squad.

As for Stark and Strange they met while an alien ship was invading Manhattan (again) and Stark didn't know who strange was. Suspicion isn't the same as caution.

Ah, got side tracked with this stuff again. So, it's been a while but I thought, at that moment, a big ship was coming to destroy the station. Is she bullet proof? Explosion proof? I didn't see any of that. She certainly is worried about touching the Tesseract, which does make her less resilient than Quill. When I say sacrifice, I mean she is likely to be blown up.

Anyway, arrogance. Remember when Stark thought that the only responsible person who could wear his suit was himself. Rhodes straight up steals his suit and only gets it reluctantly because Stark needs help. He sure learnt to be less arrogant. What about the time when he makes an AI? And then, to fix the problems of that AI, HE DOES EXACTLY THE SAME THING to make another AI, and arrogantly puts down anyone who disagrees. Wow, he sure learnt to be less arrogant. What about the time he goads a terrorist who blows up his house? Stark is so humble. Spiderman wants to help and Stark doesn't mentor him, he just says Peter is incompetent and takes his toys. What a role model.

And, most importantly, at the end of the first movie, he tells everyone he's Iron Man, putting heaps of people in danger, especially Potts. He learnt very little in Iron Man 1, except to track where his weapons go.

This doesn't excuse Danvers 'arrogance' at the end of the movie. I could see she is still somewhat arrogant, but nothing like at the start of the movie. And little less arrogant is pretty much what Marvel does. I have never thought of Start as anything but arrogant. Humble is definitely not a term that has existed in his vocabulary (maybe with his defeat with Thanos, I'll wait and see.)

 

[Saelune]

I don't see you aiding the remnants of a civilization that you were once lead to believe were monsters but then got over your unfair bias to defend.

Fucking 10/10 counter argument. I wish this forum had emojis because I'd be typing clapping ones right now if I could.

So you have chosen to concede?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Well I'm off to see Avengers: No One's Ever Really Gone in a few hours. My predictions are Thanos falls to his death, and everybody gets resurrected.

 

[Hawki]

Well I'm off to see Avengers: No One's Ever Really Gone in a few hours. My predictions are Thanos falls to his death, and everybody gets resurrected.

Why "falls to his death?" Because of Gamora?

Anyway, I may see it this weekend, but 3 hours? Christ.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

I don't see you aiding the remnants of a civilization that you were once lead to believe were monsters but then got over your unfair bias to defend.

Fucking 10/10 counter argument. I wish this forum had emojis because I'd be typing clapping ones right now if I could.

So you have chosen to concede?

I've chosen to concede that you don't actually have any opinion on this movie besides "woman is good so cannot be bad". When one of your arguments against me is that I've not helped stop a genocide and found some refugee aliens a new home planet I kind of feel like you're not arguing in good faith.

 

[McElroy]

Well I'm off to see Avengers: No One's Ever Really Gone in a few hours.

Damn your advance screenings. My ticket to Revengers: Snap Back 2 Reality is booked for Thursday night.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Well I'm off to see Avengers: No One's Ever Really Gone in a few hours.

Damn your advance screenings. My ticket to Revengers: Snap Back 2 Reality is booked for Thursday night.

So I decided that i'm gonna see Avengeance: Game Over in a theatre. But all the expected buzz even before the movie, made me a thunk: Wonder if i will still want to after a week of constant talk and analysis(soonest ill see it is next tuesday), on all the social media platforms i visit. All that exposure might make sick of it, before i even get to watch it.
Oh, and the memes. Fuck! A week or more of memery i don't get... Maybe it's worth to just spoil yourself if you're not gonna see it asap, you know?

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Well I'm off to see Avengers: No One's Ever Really Gone in a few hours. My predictions are Thanos falls to his death, and everybody gets resurrected.

Personally i hope for "Thanos eventually stopped thinking" kind of punishment, something more creative than just killing him, which he also seems to be fine with at this point.
Or, if we gonna reverse the snap, might a well just go full DBZ and make him a purple Piccolo/Vegeta. That'd be interesting.

(What we all REALLY want is Antman expanding the Thanus ofc. But that's out of question.)

 

[Saelune]

I don't see you aiding the remnants of a civilization that you were once lead to believe were monsters but then got over your unfair bias to defend.

Fucking 10/10 counter argument. I wish this forum had emojis because I'd be typing clapping ones right now if I could.

So you have chosen to concede?

I've chosen to concede that you don't actually have any opinion on this movie besides "woman is good so cannot be bad". When one of your arguments against me is that I've not helped stop a genocide and found some refugee aliens a new home planet I kind of feel like you're not arguing in good faith.

I am arguing that you haven't explained how Carol is an asshole just because she is a snarky -woman- who is literally a hero. And instead of explaining that you decided to get all bent out of shape cause I pointed out how your definition of asshole is a bad definition. And now you're arguing in bad faith by claiming I am cause maybe, just maybe you cant actually defend yourself.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

So, yeah, the plot is something that's likely to appeal more to women than guys. Not saying that guys can't enjoy it, I certainly did.

Okay. Let's start asking the hard questions with uncomfortable answers.

What makes Captain Marvel different from Jessica Jones, other than one being a street-level Netflix series and the other being a cosmic-level feature film? What made their receptions so radically different?

Other than scale, on every conceivable level they're basically the same character. That's why in the comics, Carol and Jessica are inseparable friends. The primary difference is, all that stuff that metaphorically happened to Carol, literally happened to Jessica. And just as you'd expect, for it JJ is a hell of a lot darker and a hell of a lot less subtle.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Well I'm off to see Avengers: No One's Ever Really Gone in a few hours. My predictions are Thanos falls to his death, and everybody gets resurrected.

Why "falls to his death?" Because of Gamora?

Because Disney likes villains falling to their demise or otherwise killing themselves in a suicidal move. Hubris and all that but more importantly it keeps the good guys' hands clean (which I think is BS because 95% of their powers always revolve around inflicting physical damage, but that's another thread).

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Well I'm off to see Avengers: No One's Ever Really Gone in a few hours. My predictions are Thanos falls to his death, and everybody gets resurrected.

Personally i hope for "Thanos eventually stopped thinking" kind of punishment, something more creative than just killing him, which he also seems to be fine with at this point.
Or, if we gonna reverse the snap, might a well just go full DBZ and make him a purple Piccolo/Vegeta. That'd be interesting.

(What we all REALLY want is Antman expanding the Thanus ofc. But that's out of question.)

Maybe he gets a "forever damned" punishment ala the baddie in Dr. Strange.

Well I'm off to see Avengers: No One's Ever Really Gone in a few hours.

Damn your advance screenings. My ticket to Revengers: Snap Back 2 Reality is booked for Thursday night.

It's just a press screening. I don't really care about the benefit of an early preview as much as I do for the coziness of a half-empty, sit-wherever-you-want press screening. Plus you can usually trust journos to keep it down with their phones and wrappers.