Captain Marvel or How Marvel does everything better than everyone else

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

I loved it. It's more Marvel, but I enjoy the "Marvel Formula", so that isn't an issue for me. It definitely isn't among the best Marvel has to offer, but as far as Origin stories go it's pretty good. Brie Larson does an amazing job bringing Carol Danvers to the big screen. Fury is fucking great as usual. I'm positive one specific scene will be divisive as fuck. I thought it was hilarious, but I understand why people expecting something more serious would be disappointed. All in all, it was a fun time. Also, Goose is adorable as hell.

Brie Larson is always appreciated, so is the 70s and 90s, on these little basis I was already sold. Apparently Brie said some stuff that made the tinterweb manbabies have a shit fit, no idea what it was but can only imagine it involved white genocide or some crap. Can't help but wonder if they put the same bitter energy towards Mel Gibson's output too.

oh yeah, a cute kittie cat certainly helps, for sure. but I will be sorely disappointed if it doesn't have a heroic moment somewhere

"I don't need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn't work about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn't made for him! I want to know what it meant to women of color, biracial women, to teen women of color. Am I saying I hate white dudes? No, I am not. What I am saying is if you make a movie that is a love letter to women of color, there is an insanely low chance a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie, and review your movie. It really sucks that reviews matter - but reviews matter. Good reviews out of festivals give small, independent films a fighting chance to be bought and seen. Good reviews help films gross money, good reviews slingshot films into awards contenders. A good review can change your life. It changed mine."

http://time.com/5312618/brie-larson-women-in-film/

This is the bad, awful thing she said. I understand why a white guy with a victim-complex would take offense. After all she's asking for diversity! Ugh!

 

[Casual Shinji]

Can't say anything in the trailer made it look like anything other than another generic Marvel movie. Like with Black Panther I'm glad that a specific group that is underrepresented in these movies finally gets some representation, but that doesn't stop it from looking utterly bland. I'll just be over there waiting for Shazam and Brightburn.

As someone who agrees with the statement that Black Panther was bland, I suggest you go see this one. It's really fun.

Anything is possible. I mean, I just saw Venom and I actually kinda liked that, so who knows.

 

[Hawki]

I hope Marvel can get the X-Men rights back after Dark Phoenix bombs so we can see Rogue steal her powers.

I...actually don't think Dark Phoenix is going to bomb.

I loved it. It's more Marvel, but I enjoy the "Marvel Formula", so that isn't an issue for me. It definitely isn't among the best Marvel has to offer, but as far as Origin stories go it's pretty good. Brie Larson does an amazing job bringing Carol Danvers to the big screen. Fury is fucking great as usual. I'm positive one specific scene will be divisive as fuck. I thought it was hilarious, but I understand why people expecting something more serious would be disappointed. All in all, it was a fun time. Also, Goose is adorable as hell.

"I don't need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn't work about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn't made for him! I want to know what it meant to women of color, biracial women, to teen women of color. Am I saying I hate white dudes? No, I am not. What I am saying is if you make a movie that is a love letter to women of color, there is an insanely low chance a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie, and review your movie. It really sucks that reviews matter - but reviews matter. Good reviews out of festivals give small, independent films a fighting chance to be bought and seen. Good reviews help films gross money, good reviews slingshot films into awards contenders. A good review can change your life. It changed mine."

There's another quote where she goes into movie critic statistics, but while I'm not "insulted" by the comments, I have to be honest that they still bug me. Not because of the race stuff, but the whole "it's not meant for you" argument.

The problem is this argument's been used before, it was stupid then, and it was stupid now, the idea that any criticism of a piece of work can be dismissed under the basis that "it wasn't meant for you" (usually this is replaced with the "it was made for the fans" excuse). I'm not denying that there's pieces of media that will appeal to some groups more than others, but the idea that only the catered-for group's opinion matters is a pretty dire one. Off the top of my head, by this logic, anyone who isn't British, male, straight, and white can't possibly have an opinion on James Bond, who, at the end of the day, is a power fantasy for this group. Those outside the intended group have every right to have and express an opinion on the Bond films/books however.

 

[McElroy]

I hope Marvel can get the X-Men rights back after Dark Phoenix bombs so we can see Rogue steal her powers.

I...actually don't think Dark Phoenix is going to bomb.

Sansa Stark is going to make it or break it. Like, the movie comes out in June while the last episodes of GoT air in May. Whatever happens to Sansa could totally be a distraction when trying to watch the "Dark Stark Saga" later in theaters.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

The problem is this argument's been used before, it was stupid then, and it was stupid now, the idea that any criticism of a piece of work can be dismissed under the basis that "it wasn't meant for you" (usually this is replaced with the "it was made for the fans" excuse). I'm not denying that there's pieces of media that will appeal to some groups more than others, but the idea that only the catered-for group's opinion matters is a pretty dire one. Off the top of my head, by this logic, anyone who isn't British, male, straight, and white can't possibly have an opinion on James Bond, who, at the end of the day, is a power fantasy for this group. Those outside the intended group have every right to have and express an opinion on the Bond films/books however.

She didn't say criticism from a particular group is dismissable. More like, there's a particular insight that different people bring when critiquing. A cis critic and a trans critic will likely have different takes on Rocky Picture Horror Show. A straight critic and a gay critic may have different takes on But I'm a Cheerleader. The point isn't to knock down white male critics but to uplift women, people of color, and lgbtq+ critics so that the conversation isn't dominated by a single group that potentially doesn't understand or appreciate what it does.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I didn't like Ragnarock very much. Its a good movie, but I honestly thought it was the weakest of all the Thor movies. Very...Hot Topicy...
Anything in this movie that I need to know for Avengers or its it kinda Ant Man like where I can skip it and the character just appears?

How can anything be weak compared to dark world

Because Thor was supposed to be the overly dramatic Shakespearen hero, the one all Alas and Alack! Ragnarock was just Guardians 3. It had a fucking rock sound track. Dark World may not be the best movie, but at least its trying to do its own thing, not just pretending to be another, more popular movie.

 

[Squilookle]

Just got back from seeing it, and I am honestly surprised how much I fucking just loved it. Seriously, plus this movie does Star Wars, Star Trek, and even Superman better than Star Wars, Star Trek and Superman.

*I am talking the new age versions, ie the shitty JJ Abrams ones.

You really, really should have specified that. Literally everyone read that as you just shitting over the entire spectrum of those franchises.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Brie Larson is always appreciated, so is the 70s and 90s, on these little basis I was already sold. Apparently Brie said some stuff that made the tinterweb manbabies have a shit fit, no idea what it was but can only imagine it involved white genocide or some crap. Can't help but wonder if they put the same bitter energy towards Mel Gibson's output too.

oh yeah, a cute kittie cat certainly helps, for sure. but I will be sorely disappointed if it doesn't have a heroic moment somewhere

She said something along the lines of the movie not being made for white men while being smug and shaking her head in an annoying angle or some such.

I'll be glad to prove her wrong!

She later was apparently pressured by her publicist into walking these comments back somewhat with a tepid "I just wanna include more people not restrict some" and whatnot platitude. Though all that stuff is kinda noise when talking about the movie. It's all about the personality of the actress and her politics and whatnot. Completely unimportant stuff when in the context of a fictional story.

 

[Trunkage]

Brie Larson is always appreciated, so is the 70s and 90s, on these little basis I was already sold. Apparently Brie said some stuff that made the tinterweb manbabies have a shit fit, no idea what it was but can only imagine it involved white genocide or some crap. Can't help but wonder if they put the same bitter energy towards Mel Gibson's output too.

oh yeah, a cute kittie cat certainly helps, for sure. but I will be sorely disappointed if it doesn't have a heroic moment somewhere

She said something along the lines of the movie not being made for white men while being smug and shaking her head in an annoying angle or some such.

I'll be glad to prove her wrong!

She later was apparently pressured by her publicist into walking these comments back somewhat with a tepid "I just wanna include more people not restrict some" and whatnot platitude. Though all that stuff is kinda noise when talking about the movie. It's all about the personality of the actress and her politics and whatnot. Completely unimportant stuff when in the context of a fictional story.

The quote is earlier in this thread. Pretty much says, "I want to hear from not just white 40 year old guys." Which, of course, should be offensive to anyone.

Could have she worded it nicer so it doesn't trigger white guys? Sure. Hence her point about not trying to exclude them later.

As a person who is 'targeted' by Larsen? People being offended are just making mountains out of molehills. It's like when you called her smug. Because smug now seems to mean 'I dont like what their saying' rather than a facial expression.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Brie Larson is always appreciated, so is the 70s and 90s, on these little basis I was already sold. Apparently Brie said some stuff that made the tinterweb manbabies have a shit fit, no idea what it was but can only imagine it involved white genocide or some crap. Can't help but wonder if they put the same bitter energy towards Mel Gibson's output too.

oh yeah, a cute kittie cat certainly helps, for sure. but I will be sorely disappointed if it doesn't have a heroic moment somewhere

It gets a couple in the end.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Brie Larson is always appreciated, so is the 70s and 90s, on these little basis I was already sold. Apparently Brie said some stuff that made the tinterweb manbabies have a shit fit, no idea what it was but can only imagine it involved white genocide or some crap. Can't help but wonder if they put the same bitter energy towards Mel Gibson's output too.

oh yeah, a cute kittie cat certainly helps, for sure. but I will be sorely disappointed if it doesn't have a heroic moment somewhere

She said something along the lines of the movie not being made for white men while being smug and shaking her head in an annoying angle or some such.

I'll be glad to prove her wrong!

She later was apparently pressured by her publicist into walking these comments back somewhat with a tepid "I just wanna include more people not restrict some" and whatnot platitude. Though all that stuff is kinda noise when talking about the movie. It's all about the personality of the actress and her politics and whatnot. Completely unimportant stuff when in the context of a fictional story.

The quote is earlier in this thread. Pretty much says, "I want to hear from not just white 40 year old guys." Which, of course, should be offensive to anyone.

Could have she worded it nicer so it doesn't trigger white guys? Sure. Hence her point about not trying to exclude them later.

As a person who is 'targeted' by Larsen? People being offended are just making mountains out of molehills. It's like when you called her smug. Because smug now seems to mean 'I dont like what their saying' rather than a facial expression.

I'm not entirely certain that is the same quote I had in mind but either way it's less about facial expression and more about uhh, neck movement, I guess?

Point mainly is that this is just the actress' own personality that's abrasive and it has little to do with the movie. Sure, it was in connection to the movie, but it's unfair to blame the movie that has a ton of people working on it cause this one actress behaves the way she does. I can see blaming her all you want but you can't apply her flaws to the fictional world of the movie or even to the character that she portrays because that world is governed by the writers so she can say she hates white men or whatever but if the writer writes her into a neonazi concubine in the next one her character will morph into that irrespective of whatever her feelings on white men are. Even if she were to refuse to play that character and they got someone else to do it it'd still be the same character.

Separate art from the artist and judge works in a vacuum, that's the only fair approach.

 

[Saelune]

*I am talking the new age versions, ie the shitty JJ Abrams ones.

You really, really should have specified that. Literally everyone read that as you just shitting over the entire spectrum of those franchises.

Literally is a bold word to use. I don't disagree I could have been more clear, but I really doubt literally is the proper word here.

 

[Saelune]

Brie Larson is always appreciated, so is the 70s and 90s, on these little basis I was already sold. Apparently Brie said some stuff that made the tinterweb manbabies have a shit fit, no idea what it was but can only imagine it involved white genocide or some crap. Can't help but wonder if they put the same bitter energy towards Mel Gibson's output too.

oh yeah, a cute kittie cat certainly helps, for sure. but I will be sorely disappointed if it doesn't have a heroic moment somewhere

She said something along the lines of the movie not being made for white men while being smug and shaking her head in an annoying angle or some such.

I'll be glad to prove her wrong!

She later was apparently pressured by her publicist into walking these comments back somewhat with a tepid "I just wanna include more people not restrict some" and whatnot platitude. Though all that stuff is kinda noise when talking about the movie. It's all about the personality of the actress and her politics and whatnot. Completely unimportant stuff when in the context of a fictional story.

The quote is earlier in this thread. Pretty much says, "I want to hear from not just white 40 year old guys." Which, of course, should be offensive to anyone.

Could have she worded it nicer so it doesn't trigger white guys? Sure. Hence her point about not trying to exclude them later.

As a person who is 'targeted' by Larsen? People being offended are just making mountains out of molehills. It's like when you called her smug. Because smug now seems to mean 'I dont like what their saying' rather than a facial expression.

She could have worded it nicer. Doesn't mean she should. Standing up to bullies is a good thing. With all the intentional misinformation going around about this movie, clearly she was very justified. Sexism is as popular as ever.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Okay, real talk here:

The reason Disney is under constant attack by reactionaries doesn't have anything to do with their movies, their quality or their marketing. Disney is a fairly conservative company and always has been. The reason these reactionaries keep attacking Disney is because many Jews work there. In their eyes Disney is a Jewish company which is why it needs to be attacked.

That, for that matter, is the reason for most rightist attacks on the film industry in general. Not any concrete connection the industry has to their boogeyman of Cultural Marxism. Which, for the record, also means "anything involving jewish people"

 

[Hawki]

So, I saw it today. I'll give a full review in the "last movie you watched" thread later, but short thoughts:

-It's fine. It's okay. Fight scenes are terrible, but there's enough humour and, at times, depth, to keep me invested most of the time. There's a great plot twist I didn't see coming, but the film really struggles to stick the landing.

-What happened to Goose after this film?

-Of the now 16 MCU films I've seen, this takes the #10 spot.

-Seriously, End Game - you have to explain Goose. Where's Goose? Gimme Goose!

 

[McElroy]

Okay, real talk here:

The reason Disney is under constant attack by reactionaries doesn't have anything to do with their movies, their quality or their marketing. Disney is a fairly conservative company and always has been. The reason these reactionaries keep attacking Disney is because many Jews work there. In their eyes Disney is a Jewish company which is why it needs to be attacked.

That, for that matter, is the reason for most rightist attacks on the film industry in general. Not any concrete connection the industry has to their boogeyman of Cultural Marxism. Which, for the record, also means "anything involving jewish people"

Blue pills, red pills... What the hell do they call the one you took?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Okay, real talk here:

The reason Disney is under constant attack by reactionaries doesn't have anything to do with their movies, their quality or their marketing. Disney is a fairly conservative company and always has been. The reason these reactionaries keep attacking Disney is because many Jews work there. In their eyes Disney is a Jewish company which is why it needs to be attacked.

That, for that matter, is the reason for most rightist attacks on the film industry in general. Not any concrete connection the industry has to their boogeyman of Cultural Marxism. Which, for the record, also means "anything involving jewish people"

. Stuff like Kingdom Hearts has been pretty universally loved or at least liked though. Do Japanese people cancel out the jews?

 

[Hawki]

She didn't say criticism from a particular group is dismissable.

She just dismissed criticism from an entire group by definition. As in:

X: I have an opinion on A.

Y: I have no interest in the opinion of X on A.

What is that if not dismissal?

And, yeah, this argument bugs me. It's always bugged me well before Brie Larson opened her mouth. I've seen this idea tossed around in numerous forms, though usually it's along the lines of "it was made for the fans" or "if you don't like it, why watch it?" Usually, it's a way of trying to dismiss any criticism without having to actually engage in that criticism. The latter arguably bothers me any more, because if you make something that's crap, and defend it with "it's for the fans," then by insinuation, your fans are happy lapping up crap.

More like, there's a particular insight that different people bring when critiquing. A cis critic and a trans critic will likely have different takes on Rocky Picture Horror Show. A straight critic and a gay critic may have different takes on But I'm a Cheerleader.

Um, yes? I'm not disputing that.

The point isn't to knock down white male critics but to uplift women, people of color, and lgbtq+ critics so that the conversation isn't dominated by a single group that potentially doesn't understand or appreciate what it does.

I know that's not the point per se - Larson made the point in a separate statement when she gave statistics on the demographics of film critics. However, again, it's effectively falling into the same fallacy:

X: I don't like A.

Y: It wasn't made for X. I want to know what Z thinks about A.

If we're really entertaining the idea that critique of art becomes more or less valid in sync with the identity/lack of it of the person reviewing it, then ultimately, the act of critique is worthless.

Also, it's telling that A Wrinkle in Time is the film being used as an example, said film being a box office bomb, and panned by critics and fans alike. Maybe the film just wasn't that good? Like, the whole "critics are out of touch" argument is conspicuously nowhere to be seen when critics and fans align. Apparently "the critics are out of touch, except when they agree with me" is the true message being imparted.