Catholics, Buddhists Join Hindu Protests Against Smite

[DaWaffledude]

My problem with Smite isn't that Kali is playable. My problem with it, is that (as far as I'm aware) Kali is the only God in the game that is part of a still-active religion. It's basically saying Hinduism is unquestionably not true.

 

[PurePareidolia]

I'm really happy that the developers are sticking their ground Freedom of expression should never be a slave to religious ideals - whether it be drawing Mohammad or making Kali a playable character. If they want people who don't subscribe to their faith to take them seriously, they can bring forth some evidence because otherwise you might as well be trying to copyright your imaginary friend.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

I... I feel so odd about this. On one hand, people of different religious beliefs are respecting one another. On another hand, they're trying to force a piece of media to not be made, which I am definitely against. I just don't know whether I should be upset or pleased.

^ This just... this. As much as I like seeing religions getting along... they picked a heckuva time/topic to do it around...

 

[mfeff]

Meh.

We agree here... meh!

snip...

So using hindu gods within this context is insulting on multiple levels, both the depictions (As in, the art style and the gameplay) plus the conotations "They are as important as Zeus and whatnot", you can be pretty certain that they will not have Allah in a punching match with God because Christianity and Islam are taken seriously.

Now, it is insulting for sure but the insult is one of contextual framing as per the particular paradigm from which one would be insulted. Speaking from experience (which is weak, lacks a large sample, and is simply a personal interpretation) I found that there are several types of Hindu philosophy, or schools. Some pretty laid back, others not so much. The anecdote I would offer is that during a discussion a young woman she proceeded to tell me that Siddhartha Gautama was the reincarnation of Vishnu.

"He was?" - I laughed - end anecdote...

Well not exactly, as Buddhism worked it's way back West it "became" that way to make it compatible with the emergent Hindu faith. Hinduism as a philosophy is loaded with caveats to make allowances for foreign beliefs by reestablishing the Hindu pantheon as primary, with other practices simply being manifestations of their own.

Why wouldn't it? Brahmanism is the core of Hinduism, which is a theocratic approach to governance, state sponsored, it became a basis for the Oligarchy of India until that was upturned by English occupation of the country.

Now that a philosophy tied to the regional history and importance of India in the context of early world events is still a "living" practice is not really debatable. That it "went" this way (adaptation for promulgation) by structuring itself to adopt other philosophies as secondary or tertiary doesn't really mean that the structure is "true" in the context of the known facts.

It's simply true for Hinduism as some people practice it.

To contextualize this for media, in the game Populous one plays as "God" with powers influenced by the faith of the little pixels running around. By the Hindu structure, the player is a reincarnation of Vishnu... so... there we go. Of course this is an reductio ad absurdum (and probably some other stuff), but the point here is that no one challenges that, as the individual is not relevant to the faith and it's power structure.

What is being discussed here is that the Icon is being manipulated in such a way as to make it difficult to reestablish it's dominance structurally as a prime mover. Not only that but it is being used as a prop for commercial gain. This is parallel to the "Reverend's" previous complaints. This isn't about "religion" it is about commercialization of iconography and structural posits of a fairly large school of Hinduism. I address this above questioning the "Buddhist" of this story as being no such thing at all.

By the by... Allah is Arabic for "God"... so by your account it would simply be God fighting God. I think the meme "full retard" would cover this.

In short this isn't about a religion, it is about power and how religions are often tied to power historically and culturally.

To those who say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster should be in this game... Meh, I get that you are trying to be funny, but if s/he was included this would be much, much worse.

It would be funny. Thus it's subjective what it would be. Perhaps a hidden level... (makes some notes).

...It does no matter what your faith is, you can still attempt to understand.

That is just it, many people do understand. Clearly I understand... I hold a degree on the subject... but I do not agree with the philosophical posit nor the ramifications as to "which God/deity/hamburger monster from beyond" is or how that ties to into anything.

What seems to be amiss here is that respecting where someone is coming from, or from where they hail is not the same as respecting the conclusions of where they come from. As the old saying goes, when in Rome do as the Romans... but in this context, "THIS" isn't India, nor a theocratic world based on Hinduism. As such, what goes around comes around.

It is for the Hindu practitioner of this particular Socratic slant to come to terms with the notion that not everyone agrees with the structure of their particular philosophy and certainly not with it's political implications of governance... OR NOT... essentially without the power to do anything about but complain, I suppose that is all that he or she may do.

The lady doth protest too much...

So whilst I think that this game is insensitive and perhaps should pull the dieties from "Living" faiths out (You would still have plenty to work with from less mainstream faiths) I will fight to the last gasp both for the right of the producers to make this incredibly inflammatory game and the right for the religious community to speak up against this game.

So what your saying is that you have no particular position one way or the other?

Mathew 12:30

Whoever is not with me is against me; whoever does not gather with me truly is scattering.

And for the love of god, I hope they do not try and use Islam as a punching bag. That would end badly. We all know it would.

Islam philosophically should have no particular problem with this, as I detailed above.

Which brings me to my final point, something which many people seem to forget when bleating about free speech.

Just because your right to say what you want is protected does not mean that you should say whatever you want, whenever you want. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you should. And if you say something (Or produce something which is protected by free speech) that people disagree with, they have as much right as you had to produce said item to disagree with said item.

Good day to you.

You don't have the right to say whatever you want whenever you want.

It is, as an example, quite illegal in most western nations to go into a crowded theater and yell "Fire!!!".

It is an act of treason to discuss bringing to harm a political figure... if that action could be construed as a plan of intent or is acted upon. Again, there are legal considerations.

Thing is, what we see here are people acting as "Vicker" to a philosophy that posits a supreme being with nothing more than their word that they are acting in accord with that being.

We may all respect that, THAT is how they feel; I mean, who wouldn't want a God on their side? However, I do not respect that their feelings on this matter mean anything in the context of anyone else's ethics, morality, or commercial capitalistic ventures.

There is a voice coming from this camp that what they are saying means something, beyond expressing an opinion. These are opinions, opinions offered as facts; which they are not.

The concern is not the "soul" or "lack-there-of" of the people in question who are straying from the flock, no, the concern is how the use of icon and narrative theme will be exploited to make a buck.

It's about power. I suspect it is much of this which explains "why" you are on the fence, defender of "free speech", "defender of the faith"... not really defending anything, not really for anything.

Fundamentally one has as much right to a thing as one may afford. If this was India, this game would not be made. Period. File that under Fact.

 

[Korak the Mad]

I'm really only interested in this video game if they also include Xenu and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. In fact, I would pre-order if that were the case.

I was actually going to suggest that. I would also love if they did some of Lovecraft's deities, like Cthulhu and Yog-Sothoth.

As for maybe giving the deities a bio of some sort may actually cause the people going against the game a little less apprehensive. What am I saying? they're going to hate no matter what.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Seriously though, if Smite offends these guys, their heads are going to explode whenever they find out about the Shin Megami Tensei series. lol

oh
my
god

so much 'THIS!!'

if they really wanna ***** about 'trivializing supreme beings' that may or may not exist, then they really should have been on that back in the 90s. as it stands, they're, to coin an old phrase "a day late and a dollar short".

 

[Dfskelleton]

...
And EA had to actually PAY people to protest Dante's Inferno?

I'm proud of the two faiths for setting their differences aside for a common goal, but haven't there been a lot worse depictions of deities in previous games?
It just strikes me as odd that they would take offense to this, but not some of the eariler stuff.

 

[1337mokro]

Seriously though, if Smite offends these guys, their heads are going to explode whenever they find out about the Shin Megami Tensei series. lol

LOL

Oh I had a good laugh when I read that.

But seriously people stop being butthurt over a game. First of all it's not slandering your religion it's just using figures as heroes. Second of all your religion is not protected from slander.

I can say anything I want about it whenever I want to. So please, go cry in the corner silently.

Sigh... So it's okay if gamers get offended when Samus takes a character turn that they don't appreciate, but a religion getting offended that their gods, that they hold as absolute truth, are getting put into a fighting game where they can lose to another religions god is just them being bitchy and not knowing that they've already lost?

Personally I can see their point and sort of agree with them, I certainly wouldn't want to see my mother or father or some other person I hold near and dear getting their face beaten in by someone as a game. Though Hindus and Buddhists getting together for something isn't at all surprising for anyone that has studied Indian history for more then five minutes.

Did I say that? No. You brought that up. So let's now examine that ans see how wrong you are.

When those gamers raised hell, what were their complaints. "Samus is made into a completely different character than previous games" or "The way Samus bows down to Adam is down right disgusting".

What they didn't say was "Because we believe Samus is a Supreme almighty Goddess she should never be used in any media unless it is depicted according to our very narrow standards of what is correct".

You compare a religious group complaining about their deities being used in a commercial product which they perceive as slanderous with a group of gamers who didn't like changes made between games.

Just to give you a personal opinion here.

What I didn't like about Other M was the abusive relationship between our two main characters, culminating in a stand off where a woman gets shot for being "disobedient".

Yay feminism!

 

[1337mokro]

But seriously people stop being butthurt over a game. First of all it's not slandering your religion it's just using figures as heroes. Second of all your religion is not protected from slander.

I can say anything I want about it whenever I want to. So please, go cry in the corner silently.

They can say whatever they want about this game whenever they want to. Go cry in your bedroom, hypocrite.


Fucking hate this site sometimes for the self righteous and stuck up users that infest it.

Either that was a sarcasm post or you are a complete moron. You call me a hypocrite because I say someone should go cry in the corner. Then say I should do the same because I don't allow them to say whatever they want?

Guess what I never said they shouldn't be allowed to say anything. What I said was that whilst they have the right to say anything their words carry no weight.

I can see how you hate this site seeing as people like yourself are all over it .

Thanks for commenting Mr. Moron.

 

[iRevanchist]

It's so heartwarming to see two faiths work together to oppress the media.

 

[aattss]

Religions are not unique. Media doesn't trivialize this anymore than anything else, which might mean that nothing is trivialized depending on your perspective. I could debate a lot of this, but no one honestly expects this to work. Also, if they remove the Hindu gods, they should also remove the Christian ones and the rest, so that they can prove they aren't biased or whatever. As gods are the main point of this game, that wouldn't work.

 

[Fapmaster5000]

I get the idea behind this outcry: people of the Hindu faith don't want to see their religion treated as a toy. Gaming has yet to treat the topic of religion well. I don't think they're reacting the right way though. Encourage people to ignore the game, and hold it up as an example on not treating the topic properly. After all, I don't remember a huge deal being made about Final Fantasy 10.

Final Fantasy tends to just toss "impressive" names onto unrelated creatures. It probably never even popped onto their radar. Smite, on the other hand, is directly marketing "Play as this god/goddess and whup some divine ass!" It's a little more... direct.

It's the difference between someone saying they "banged ur mom" and that person creating a lifelike inflatable doll of your mother, banging it, and then mailing you the explicit video, complete with recorded sounds of your mother's orgasm. One, most people would brush off, the other, people might care about.

Not saying I disagree with Smite, I've had friends say the test runs were a lot of fun, but there is a matter of perspective to consider for those who don't share our worldview.

I don't think you've played Final Fantasy X. It's an entire game warning about the dangers of mindlessly following religious dogma. The entire plot is centered around the world nearly being destroyed because people refused to question their religious leaders and deities.

Part 2, and the reason so many in this thread are mad: they are attempting to censor a company because they find it offensive to their god. While it's a nice sentiment of their part, needless censorship of any kind is wrong.

Nah, I played the hell out of FFX. It's the difference between generality and specifics. I take it you were never raised in or around orthodox religions. The depiction of the deity(ies) itself is sacred, and while the church, or religion, can be questioned, the godhead is absolute. Attacking that is a literal attack against the base of the religion, against the base of the person who believes in it.

Again, saying "I banged ur mom" versus the full media blitz.

It's not my POV, it's obviously not your point of view, but a little courtesy and understanding would sure be appreciated. I don't argue abortion to people who have had abortions. I don't discuss gun control with someone who lost a family member to gun crime. I don't verbally assault someone's mother. And I don't poke people's deeply-held beliefs unless those beliefs are in direct conflict with my own, and I cannot find a better way around the mess.

The bitter (butthurt) reaction in this thread to anything to do with religion is rather staggering, and says a lot more about the emotional state of many of the posters here than it does about the cause of the rage, and further, it detracts from a possibly very interesting debate about video games, belief, religion, and the collision of mythological materials and "off-limits" sacred text.

Oh, and just to shut this nonsense about "censorship" down:

Censorship is the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts.

Now, this would be censorship if a government banned it. This would be censorship if a state-church banned it. This might be censorship if the media colluded to make it vanish from the public realm. A small group of religions saying, "We disagree, and urge our faithful not to play it." is not censorship, it's an opinion, a choice, and JUST AS PROTECTED AS THE RIGHTS OF THE COMPANY TO PRODUCE IT.

 

[Frozengale]

I think this can be summed up like this.

Hindus: We don't like how you are portraying our God and trivializing our religion. We ask that you be more respectful to our beliefs.

Internet: OMG! CENSORSHIP AND OPPRESSION! LEAVE US ALONE YOU RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS! RUN FOR THE HILLS EVERYONE!

 

[Al-Bundy-da-G]

They're just upset because someone finally decided to put the "Whose god is better?" question to the ultimate test - hand-to-hand combat.

See that's not fair. Alot of the Hindu and Shinto gods have six or more arms. I call unfair advantage.

 

[Erttheking]

Ugh, I can't be the only one tired of all the "religion is stupid" vibes going on around here. Really it feels like every time something like this pops up people use it as a chance to get their personal hatreds out in the open.

I think this can be summed up like this.

Hindus: We don't like how you are portraying our God and trivializing our religion. We ask that you be more respectful to our beliefs.

Internet: OMG! CENSORSHIP AND OPPRESSION! LEAVE US ALONE YOU RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS! RUN FOR THE HILLS EVERYONE!

Also what this guy says. We're all stuck on this Earth together and we're going to be here for a long time, if we're going to be so paper thin about how much we hate each other it's going to be a very long time. I agree that the freedom of speech for the developers should be repressed, but these people are practicing THEIR freedom of speech by saying that they don't like how their Gods are being portrayed and are asking that it be changed. Christ, everyone is in favor of freedom of speech until someone says something that they don't like. In reality this is no different from Retake Mass Effect, people are allowed to protest. When people come across something they don't like their default response isn't to stick their head into the ground and ignore it. It's like the argument "if you don't like it, don't play it" which is basically another way of saying "stop complaining about things I like". Criticism exists and you have to deal with it. Jesus, people can't complain about anything in the modern world without being called (A zealot/controlling/entitled/arrogant/ a fanboy)

They're respectfully display complaints and everyone goes off on rants on how stupid they are and how they hate the freedom of speech? Come on guys, you're better than this.

 

[Erttheking]

But seriously people stop being butthurt over a game. First of all it's not slandering your religion it's just using figures as heroes. Second of all your religion is not protected from slander.

I can say anything I want about it whenever I want to. So please, go cry in the corner silently.

They can say whatever they want about this game whenever they want to. Go cry in your bedroom, hypocrite.


Fucking hate this site sometimes for the self righteous and stuck up users that infest it.

Either that was a sarcasm post or you are a complete moron. You call me a hypocrite because I say someone should go cry in the corner. Then say I should do the same because I don't allow them to say whatever they want?

Guess what I never said they shouldn't be allowed to say anything. What I said was that whilst they have the right to say anything their words carry no weight.

I can see how you hate this site seeing as people like yourself are all over it .

Thanks for commenting Mr. Moron.

He called you a hypocrite for calling people butthurt over it, and then saying that you can say whatever you want about their religion. So in other words you said that you can say whatever you want about their religion, but they should shut up and stop complaining or rather they should "stop being butthurt"...yeah that kinda is hypocritical. "I said that whilst they have the right to say anything, their words carry no weight"...no you did not say that. Also you are being fairly insulting.

 

[Scorpid]

Seriously though, if Smite offends these guys, their heads are going to explode whenever they find out about the Shin Megami Tensei series. lol

LOL

Oh I had a good laugh when I read that.

But seriously people stop being butthurt over a game. First of all it's not slandering your religion it's just using figures as heroes. Second of all your religion is not protected from slander.

I can say anything I want about it whenever I want to. So please, go cry in the corner silently.

Sigh... So it's okay if gamers get offended when Samus takes a character turn that they don't appreciate, but a religion getting offended that their gods, that they hold as absolute truth, are getting put into a fighting game where they can lose to another religions god is just them being bitchy and not knowing that they've already lost?

Personally I can see their point and sort of agree with them, I certainly wouldn't want to see my mother or father or some other person I hold near and dear getting their face beaten in by someone as a game. Though Hindus and Buddhists getting together for something isn't at all surprising for anyone that has studied Indian history for more then five minutes.

Did I say that? No. You brought that up. So let's now examine that ans see how wrong you are.

When those gamers raised hell, what were their complaints. "Samus is made into a completely different character than previous games" or "The way Samus bows down to Adam is down right disgusting".

What they didn't say was "Because we believe Samus is a Supreme almighty Goddess she should never be used in any media unless it is depicted according to our very narrow standards of what is correct".

You compare a religious group complaining about their deities being used in a commercial product which they perceive as slanderous with a group of gamers who didn't like changes made between games.

Just to give you a personal opinion here.

What I didn't like about Other M was the abusive relationship between our two main characters, culminating in a stand off where a woman gets shot for being "disobedient".

Yay feminism!

I didn't play other M. My point is that people were upset, and you amongst them, that the character took a change they didn't like, that they felt she was misrepresented as a character on who she is at a fundamental level. Do I agree or disagree? I have no idea because I didn't play the game and I'm not a particular fan of Samus or side scrolling platforming that brought about her fame, but I do think your opinion certainly seems reasoned and shouldn't be mocked with statements like your very own above.
So now if we bring it back to people angry that their gods are being used in a fighting game to beat each other up, gods and religions by extension that people base their lives around and whose teachings they follow to some degree or another shouldn't be dismissed because it's a religion saying it, as you seem inclined to do.
Atheists sometime seem to have this view that they're absolutely right and where ever there is disagreement with their point of view that it should be put down with all the indignant rage they can muster against it without even a seemly consideration for the consequences of their what they say and do... or at least the majority I know. I'm not religious but being grouped with people like that is simply miserable to consider.
BUT most of all because you have a right to speak that alone should obligate you to feel it necessary to speak with some consideration of what you're saying and how it effects people, otherwise dialogue will just dissolve into shouting matches at an impasse which serves no purpose except to entrench ideologies with us vs them mentality being the first and last reason for anything said.

CAPTCHA: Silence is gold
(Most certainly...)

 

[somonels]

Hah! Religions, nobody takes you seriously unless you murder people.

insert Image of the Discovery Channel
How whould I describe this brand? FUCKING AWESOME!

 

[1337mokro]

But seriously people stop being butthurt over a game. First of all it's not slandering your religion it's just using figures as heroes. Second of all your religion is not protected from slander.

I can say anything I want about it whenever I want to. So please, go cry in the corner silently.

They can say whatever they want about this game whenever they want to. Go cry in your bedroom, hypocrite.


Fucking hate this site sometimes for the self righteous and stuck up users that infest it.

Either that was a sarcasm post or you are a complete moron. You call me a hypocrite because I say someone should go cry in the corner. Then say I should do the same because I don't allow them to say whatever they want?

Guess what I never said they shouldn't be allowed to say anything. What I said was that whilst they have the right to say anything their words carry no weight.

I can see how you hate this site seeing as people like yourself are all over it .

Thanks for commenting Mr. Moron.

He called you a hypocrite for calling people butthurt over it, and then saying that you can say whatever you want about their religion. So in other words you said that you can say whatever you want about their religion, but they should shut up and stop complaining or rather they should "stop being butthurt"...yeah that kinda is hypocritical. "I said that whilst they have the right to say anything, their words carry no weight"...no you did not say that. Also you are being fairly insulting.

Of course I am being insulting. What else can I be? I'm butthurt remember.

 

[1337mokro]

Seriously though, if Smite offends these guys, their heads are going to explode whenever they find out about the Shin Megami Tensei series. lol

LOL

Oh I had a good laugh when I read that.

But seriously people stop being butthurt over a game. First of all it's not slandering your religion it's just using figures as heroes. Second of all your religion is not protected from slander.

I can say anything I want about it whenever I want to. So please, go cry in the corner silently.

Sigh... So it's okay if gamers get offended when Samus takes a character turn that they don't appreciate, but a religion getting offended that their gods, that they hold as absolute truth, are getting put into a fighting game where they can lose to another religions god is just them being bitchy and not knowing that they've already lost?

Personally I can see their point and sort of agree with them, I certainly wouldn't want to see my mother or father or some other person I hold near and dear getting their face beaten in by someone as a game. Though Hindus and Buddhists getting together for something isn't at all surprising for anyone that has studied Indian history for more then five minutes.

Did I say that? No. You brought that up. So let's now examine that ans see how wrong you are.

When those gamers raised hell, what were their complaints. "Samus is made into a completely different character than previous games" or "The way Samus bows down to Adam is down right disgusting".

What they didn't say was "Because we believe Samus is a Supreme almighty Goddess she should never be used in any media unless it is depicted according to our very narrow standards of what is correct".

You compare a religious group complaining about their deities being used in a commercial product which they perceive as slanderous with a group of gamers who didn't like changes made between games.

Just to give you a personal opinion here.

What I didn't like about Other M was the abusive relationship between our two main characters, culminating in a stand off where a woman gets shot for being "disobedient".

Yay feminism!

I didn't play other M. My point is that people were upset, and you amongst them, that the character took a change they didn't like, that they felt she was misrepresented as a character on who she is at a fundamental level. Do I agree or disagree? I have no idea because I didn't play the game and I'm not a particular fan of Samus or side scrolling platforming that brought about her fame, but I do think your opinion certainly seems reasoned and shouldn't be mocked with statements like your very own above.
So now if we bring it back to people angry that their gods are being used in a fighting game to beat each other up, gods and religions by extension that people base their lives around and whose teachings they follow to some degree or another shouldn't be dismissed because it's a religion saying it, as you seem inclined to do.
Atheists sometime seem to have this view that they're absolutely right and where ever there is disagreement with their point of view that it should be put down with all the indignant rage they can muster against it without even a seemly consideration for the consequences of their what they say and do... or at least the majority I know. I'm not religious but being grouped with people like that is simply miserable to consider.
BUT most of all because you have a right to speak that alone should obligate you to feel it necessary to speak with some consideration of what you're saying and how it effects people, otherwise dialogue will just dissolve into shouting matches at an impasse which serves no purpose except to entrench ideologies with us vs them mentality being the first and last reason for anything said.

CAPTCHA: Silence is gold
(Most certainly...)

Then you should. Never use something as an example without actually playing it. It sets you up with a huge disadvantage as being merely an outsider who observes a group of people shouting aloud about how much a game sucks.

Let's take a look at what you misunderstood.

You think that my motivation is because it's religion you can freely mock it because it isn't real. That is incorrect.

My stance is that anything is free game for creative purposes. Religion is not a shield that protects you from that. Just because someone believes some being really exists doesn't mean we have to tip toe around them for the sake of their feelings.

That is nonsense. If I see someone who holds a belief that the earth is flat should I now never be able to point that out? Whatever medium I choose is wrong now because he might get offended that I dare to use his ideas for the purpose of entertainment or criticism.

Silence is indeed golden, but ducktape is silver, even the ducktape used by the protestors.