Catholics, Buddhists Join Hindu Protests Against Smite

Bostur

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JokerboyJordan said:
I'm quite surprised at the response of Abrahamic faiths coming to defence of the depiction of Hinduism's pantheon, seeing that their holy scriptures down right accuse polytheistic faiths of being heretics. At least stick to your outdated/ridiculous beliefs people.

I mean honestly, why should Hindus get preferential treatment? Many different religions have had their Gods and/or prophets trivialised, I mean look at Jesus, he's on South Park, Family Guy, freakin' bumper stickers for Christ's sake (pun intended). Not to mention Too Human, God of War, Asura's Wrath, Darksiders, Dante's Inferno etc.

People need to learn that nothing should be off limits.
Parodies like South Park or Dogma put some effort into their use of deities, to me thats the opposite of trivialization. Putting God on a bumper sticker thats just cheap. I get less insulted by a well done parody than I would if deities were used as marketing gimmicks or action figures.

I'm torn on the matter, I think it depends on the execution. I didn't mind the use of angels in Diablo 3, maybe because they were kicking arse and were well developed. But I can see what the Hindu representatives are getting at. It does cheapen the subject matter if people mostly associate Kali with a video game. On the other hand some of those hindu deities are perfect game material...

Nothing should be off-limit, but it's also ok to ask that deities are treated with some care and respect. That doesn't mean they are excempt from parodies or criticism quite the opposite.

Just my $0.02
 

Scars Unseen

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hazabaza1 said:
I'm glad that Religion can't invoke copyright laws.
The main offence I'd take if I was religious is that some creepy Kali rule 34 will probably result from this.
Well who wouldn't be interested? I mean, that tongue... all those hands...
 

Darkmantle

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I wonder when the Universal Society of grow-the-fuck-up will get involved in this dispute?

Hi-rez should just ignore this.
 

SmegInThePants

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Nothing wrong w/wanting respect and understanding. But that's not *all* that they are asking for. If the point of the game was to ridicule their beliefs and those that hold said belief then they'd have a point. But its a game that just happens to portray hindu characters in a way other than what they consider to be 'official' and 'true'. Smite simply added those characters to their own fiction, but neither in a manner nor w/the intent to ridicule.

No one thinks they are ridiculing or belittling zeus, because no one believes in zeus. And Smite and crew aren't doing anything different w/Kali than they are w/zeus.

Anyways, its called a strawman argument. Incorrectly portray your opponent as saying X, then argue against X (even though in reality, they aren't saying X at all). In this case -> paint Smite and crew as doing something that 'disrespects their religion'. And then argue about whether or not disrespecting religion is bad. Most people would agree that disrespecting an accepted religion is bad. But that's not really the issue. The real question is - is that what Smite and crew are actually doing? Because I don't think they are.

(People should be free to ridicule a religion, look at what happens in states around the world where people are not allowed to speak against official religion. But we're not talking about what they should be allowed to do, but what would be the civil respectful thing to do, whether it was in good taste or not, whether or not its disrespectful).

Ridiculing hindus would be disrespecting them, no doubt. Indirectly ridiculing them by creating a fiction whose obvious point is to paint hinduism as stupid, would also be an act of disrespect. But neither is the case here. There is no attempt at ridicule or belittlement. South park, as a counter example, ridicules many religions (and they should certainly be able to do so, but one would have to admit that they are on the ridicule side of the spectrum).

Including Hindu gods into Smites fiction, even though it may be inconsistent w/Hindu teachings, is not, by itself, disrespect. If that were the case, protestants would be disrespecting catholics because they incorrectly portray purgatory, transubstantiation, what it takes to be saved, etc.... Jewish people portray jesus in a way inconsistent christian 'truth', are they disrespecting christians? Mormons portray all sorts of christian icons (jesus/satan/the angel gabriel, etc...) in a way inconsistent w/christian ideas of what is 'true', are they disrespecting christians? Atheists argue against there being a god at all, are they being disrespectful? Its ok for the theist to tell the atheist he's wrong and there is a god, but not ok for the reverse? The movie What Dreams May Come starring robin williams incorrectly portrays heaven in the eyes of believers of the scripture, is that movie disrespectful? How about SPAWN? Where do we draw the line?

Sure, its a sign that Smite and crew don't believe in Kali, as they are not treating kali w/the same reverance that a true believer would. But that is not the same as disrespect. And they shouldn't have to treat the idea of Kali w/the same reverance that a true believer would. I don't know where the line is that I would consider one to be in bad taste, but wherever that line is, Smite is well on the respectful side in my eyes.
 

VoidWanderer

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Well, this is an interesting thread.

While I enjoyed the thread pointing out the the escapist is full of hateful people, apparently has misread the intent of this thread.

In this instance, we do not care much about religion. We don't hate it, we just wish they would turn the preaching down several notches.

When I first saw Smite, I was intrigued by the concept. I probably won't play it, but I see it as a new way of getting people interested in religion. Find a god you like, read up on him/her. Boom, religion.

The 'arguement' reminds me of the church level on Resistance: Fall of Man. Or any other religious 'arguement' involving gaming. I think the captcha caught my mood perfectly.

Play it again, sam.

At the end of the day, this is just background noise. And I'd rather listen to this that Beiber.
 

ward0630

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I'm really in the middle on this one. On one hand, developers shouldn't just cave to special interest groups, and they have the right to make whatever game they want. On the other hand, it is disrespectful to portray such important figures in this way, and it almost feels like it was a calculated decision. I mean, no one sees a game where you play as Jesus. I'm just gonna stay out of this one.
 

yunabomb

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SmegInThePants said:
Including Hindu gods into Smites fiction, even though it may be inconsistent w/Hindu teachings, is not, by itself, disrespect. If that were the case, protestants would be disrespecting catholics because they incorrectly portray purgatory, transubstantiation, what it takes to be saved, etc... in the eyes of catholics at least.
This is a bad comparison. The latter sentence refers to differences in beliefs and practices between religious groups. Respect in this case means respecting differences in beliefs. The issue here is that the Hindu leadership is the only group that has jurisdiction over their central religious figures and practices. Not respecting rules on how a sacred figure should be portrayed is disrespectful to them.

A good analogy: no matter how you visually portray Mohammed, it's being disrespectful.
 

MoNKeyYy

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Revnak said:
I... I feel so odd about this. On one hand, people of different religious beliefs are respecting one another. On another hand, they're trying to force a piece of media to not be made, which I am definitely against. I just don't know whether I should be upset or pleased.
I'm not sure they're "trying to force a piece of media so much". They're just asking the developer to be more respectful of their beliefs because they may not necessarily understand them. This isn't even a case of the normal loud-mouth militant religious nut tries to get congress to censor everything ever, this is case of several religous people asking politely for some reservation. I mean, the only one of the three who actually called for any kind of change was the one rabbi and all he said was "to avoid trivializing the deeply held beliefs of Hindus by changing the product accordingly." I agree that sometimes religious folk go over the top, but in this case I think they have a point. Having a deep narrative explaing or exploring the mythos of a particular culture is one thing, having an MMO where dieties senselessly beat the hell out of each other in pursuit of better trowsers is another.

Macgyvercas said:
A message to all world religions.

Fuck. Off.

You are free to worship as you see fit, but that does not mean that everyone on the planet has to respect your deity. And let's get one thing straight: If it exists, it's fair game to be used in any medium, regardless of whether or not you personally find it offensive. Because let me tell you something: Not everyone believes the same things you do, and that's okay. If a product out there offends you, there is a very simple answer: DON'T CONSUME IT.
A message to everyone everywhere:

Just avoid being an asshole.

Here's the jist of what I get from many of these responses: "Wow, I can't believe religious people have the sheer gall to say that some things offend them. What a bunch of stuck up cunts."

Fuck respecting the dieties, want to explain to me why everyone on the planet can't just respect each other? If you're loudly doing a racist impersonation of a Chinese man in the street and someone who might just be Chinense politely asks you to stop, I feel like most people's response won't be to tell them "lighten up, I have a right to do whatever the fuck I want and if you have a problem then you can just leave" and then proceed to do it even louder.

Here's a fun idea, next time a black person gets offended at someone saying ******, tell the black person not to be such an oversensitive asshole. See what happens when you yell to them that they can be as offended as they want and believe whatever they want is offensive, but no matter what you're still gonna say it.
 

o_O

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Man, I read the thread title and was like "Oh my god, did they put Jesus and the Buddha in that game? I might have to play it now."

I'm thoroughly disappointed.
 

Malty Milk Whistle

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Azuaron said:
Thank you!
I was getting very tired of all the posts being along the lines of " Go QQ in a corner silly religious people!".
And there was me, thinking this board had a wide range of opinions.
You go on trucking, you wonderful person you!



They're well within their rights to ask this of the games developers, and I don't fully agree with that they're trying to do, but I can defiantly understand it.
This has also proved that some atheists can be just as annoying as devout followers of religion.
 
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No where in the article did I see them saying do not make the game. All I see is I don't like how are trivialising some icons. Rereads through the article to see it is only a very small few preachers from other religions. Looks at thread on escapist. Facepalms.

While personally, this doesn't seem too bad and I don't fully agree with the complaints this is thread is way out of whack with what was said. You would swear the Westboro Baptist Church had protested outside of one of the devs mum's funerals with signs saying she is going to hell because her son/daughter helped make this game.

Also where are people getting the idea that this is a fighting game it isn't. It is a Dota game and looking at the gameplay I'd rather play LoL while waiting for Dota than buy this game.
 

kickyourass

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I'm kinda torn, it's really nice to see those of different faiths coming together like this, but they're doing it for a cause I don't agree with so I'm not sure how to feel.
 

GangstaPony

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On the other end of the spectrum we have the Japanese/Shinto worshipers who are so proud of their culture that all their entertainment media especially video games and even Pokemon are chock full of references and you can actually catch them like monsters.

Also, HOLY SHIT! Hindu Priest & Catholic Father together. It's like some Deadly Alliance.

Captcha: modern love... ahahahahahahaha!!
 

Tanis

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I'd LOVE to see that conversation.

Catholics:
So, I know you're all going to be burning in the fires of hell, but we have a threat to our monopoly of hate and I think we can all call an EARTHLY truce do deal with this matter.

Hindus/Buddhists:
Whatever do you mean, silly man with a slain dude on a stick?

Catholics:
Video games, more and more, and trying to exercise their 'free speech' and we can't have that.
We lost the war against books, music, and movies but we MUST NOT allow this to happen in our war against video games.

Hindus/Buddhists:
Mmmm...yes...mmm.
Very well, let us ignore the logic centers of our brains and protest a silly little video game even though all it's REALLY going to do is give the damn thing free press and maybe make it sell more copies.

Catholics:
Agr...wait, what?
 

manic_depressive13

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Meh. I don't really know how to feel about this. On the one hand I think it's terrible precious of the Hindus to get offended at something like this. On the other hand the fact is that they are getting offended, and at the end of the day calling the character Kali doesn't really add anything to the game other than the small gimmick of playing as a Hindu god. Therefore I think both sides are being equally petty. The Hindus for complaining about something so trivial and the game devs for refusing to change something which is so trivial. All they need to do is change the name and say that the character is inspired by Kali, without actually being Kali, and the problem is solved. It's not as if the devs are even trying to make any sort of comment or criticism so I don't see this as a suppression of free speech.
 

Hazzard

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This protest was made by a multi-cultural team of faiths and beliefs, and not a single person cares.
 

SmegInThePants

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yunabomb said:
SmegInThePants said:
Including Hindu gods into Smites fiction, even though it may be inconsistent w/Hindu teachings, is not, by itself, disrespect. If that were the case, protestants would be disrespecting catholics because they incorrectly portray purgatory, transubstantiation, what it takes to be saved, etc... in the eyes of catholics at least.
This is a bad comparison. The latter sentence refers to differences in beliefs and practices between religious groups. Respect in this case means respecting differences in beliefs. The issue here is that the Hindu leadership is the only group that has jurisdiction over their central religious figures and practices. Not respecting rules on how a sacred figure should be portrayed is disrespectful to them.

A good analogy: no matter how you visually portray Mohammed, it's being disrespectful.
I see your point, but I would disagree that they have jurisdiction over their central figures. Look at my other examples. The hbo animated series SPAWN. The 'Prophecy' series of movies. The exorcist. Dogma. The Davinci Code. Or any other movie involving character(s) from various accepted world religions. There are many. These aren't depictions anyone seriously views as true events, they are recognized by all as fictional stories involving religious figures and contradict all sorts of religious teachings about these figures. Imagine a world w/out these movies. Imagine a world where no one would fictionalize a religious figure for fear of being disrespectful.

I think what sticks in their craw more about this situation is that kali isn't just some part of a story in the background of the game, rather, you can play *as* kali.

Besides - Religion is the exploration of the *real* world. You get jurisdiction over a character when you write a book via copyright/trademark because its fictional. But no one should have 'jurisdiction' over depictions of a religious figure, because real or not, they are *purported* to be real. And one way for people to decide for themselves if they believe or not is to explore the idea of these characters, both through science (archeology, physics, astronomy), social science (history), and even fiction (satire, or perhaps just to see - does this character even make sense, even seem possible).

Look at science. We don't say that adherents of mutually exclusive scientific theories have to respect each other by refraining from poo-pooing each other's ideas. Just the opposite. Only by encouraging them to go after each other can we slowly whittle out the bad ideas and get closer to the truth. And just as science is the exploration of the *real* world, so, supposedly, is religion. We need more dialog about religion and all its ideas w/out restraint, for the same reason. We need skeptical cynical examination of religious ideas and figures. Not this walk-on-eggshells attitude.

but again, we're leaving the real issue in the dust and not addressing it here - is what they did disrepectful? I don't see how it could be seen as such. It was not reverent, but they aren't believers, so that's to be expected. But depicting kali in a work of fiction, to me, is not the same as being actively disrepectful towards people who might believe in kali. At least not by itself. (obviously if your intent is to be disrespectful, then that same work of fiction could easily be made to be so).Believers cannot expect non-believers to show reverence toward things they do not believe in. The best way to achieve that would be to convince them to be believers themselves.