CDPR on Cyberpunk 2077 backlash

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

You can't, like CP2020 or Shadowrun (to a lesser extent), tell the audience that all this tech is fucking rad yo! while also cramming in a game mechanic that's all about how bad tech is for you.

*SIGH* I know i"m staying in the TTRPG here, but the Humanity mechanic is to discourage EXCESS, not stop you from going chrome at all.
Yes, cyberware really is cool and empowering, but you overdo it, and you will pay the price. Success is found in the happy medium, being able to balance your meat and your metal.

but the problem is built into the CP2020-franchise due to Humanity in the original RPG being a cheese limiter because all that tech was a munchkin's wet dream.

Eh, I found that more as a good side effect. I think it would have been included in the RPG regardless just because, again, it make sense from a psychological viewpoint that loading yourself down with electronics and weapons in place of your flesh is going to royally mess with your perceptions.

I get why "humanity loss" mechanics are included, but it just rubs me the wrong way, world building wise. It reeks of some esoteric bullcrap.
I guess atleast Shadowrun can get away with it, though, cause magic is real there.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

In new Deus Ex you play as a stoic, sleek cyborg man, that don't have to worry about anti-rejection drug shortages, cause his CEO overlord will provide him with anything he needs.

This pretty much highlights perfectly what I said earlier about poseur punk, and the disconnect between contemporary audiences and authentic punk media. Because that's a tremendously facile take on Human Revolution and Mankind Divided. The key term to consider here is "gilded age".

I mean, once you set aside the fact the entire game's based on Jensen not having to worry about neuro shortages, why he doesn't, and why the neuro shortage exists in the first place.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Honestly, did anyone expect something else from an AAA game, though?
In new Deus Ex you play as a stoic, sleek cyborg man, that don't have to worry about anti-rejection drug shortages, cause his CEO overlord will provide him with anything he needs. In Watch_Dogs2 you are part of a crew of hip kids that seem to be as invested in wacky hacker hijinks as much as fighting the system. If not more. And in the sequel you'll be able to play a CombatGran in a post Brexit Britain. Hilarious!
And those are only the "cyberpunky" games. Post-apo for example looks about as colorful and cheesy as ever, if you take a gander at RAGE 2 or Far Cry: New Dawn. The big reason for that might be whiplash against "serious, brownish grey, joyless shooters" that seemed to dominate the AAA vista in previous gen. But i'm getting into a segue here...
Point being: If one wants to play as a cog in a nightmarish dystopian machine, instead of a "cool cyber man" on the fringe of the system, better look at indie games, maybe? Paper's Please is that a way.

Well, it's not like I would be asking for Brazil the AAA Game (although with that movie you could actually create an experience that switches between soulcrushing bureaucracy and wishfullfillment), but it shouldn't be too hard to create an action game that makes you want to escape from a horrible society. It's been done before, and in the AAA space. Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee did a terrific job, and Half-Life 2 is one of the most celebrated games ever. You also have movies like Akira which are loaded with explosive action, yet it still manages to convey this very oppressive and suffocating atmosphere.

 

[Kwak]

Point being: If one wants to play as a cog in a nightmarish dystopian machine, instead of a "cool cyber man" on the fringe of the system, better look at indie games, maybe?

Ruiner does it pretty well I think.

 

[Abomination]

I ain't seen or heard of any trans or nonbinary characters in the game yet. And I'm not holding my breath.

I have to ask, if they were... how would you know?

Not all gender noncomforming people have 100% passing as their chosen gender as an end goal. Not in the real world, nor in the cyberpunk world, where cyber augmentation has turned gender barriers into more gender staircases.

Even the original books had loose gender norms as a mainstay. And those same values has transferred over both in the mentioned advertisement, and in the developer comments about it.

If the world is okay enough with people "mixing it up" for corporations to use it in advertising, then it should be reflected in the world and character designs.

But it isn't. Which is why I think cdpr is in over their heads and simply want to have their cake and eat it too.

So now we're looking at a proportion of this proportion of people that could be identified as trans with a passing glance. How many NPCs have been seen so far? If it's less than 100 then proportionately not seeing a trans person is... likely. That is assuming that trans person can be identified as trans with a passing glance.

At the end of the day, it'll always upset someone. The "safe" thing for a company to do is to not include trans people at all.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Is this a good time to mention that one of the more beloved source/short adventure books for 2020 had the CO of a band of South American drug wars cyber soldiers turned loosely affiliated mercenaries married to a MtF transexual?

 

[Abomination]

If seeing trans and nonbinary people is gonna upset fragile right egos then they shouldn't be playing a cyberpunk game.

Not talking about the Right being upset, but progressives. The inclusion of a trans person will not be "right" or they should "know better" or whatever. People will not be happy with the portrayal in the game due to one reason or another.

Remember when Witcher didn't have people of color and they claimed that they were only being lore accurate to the Witcher series, and that including poc would be messing with the source material?

Yeah, and they had a point. It was the Holy Roman Empire attacking what was essentially 4 Polands with interference from Scandinavia. A black person would be an anomaly. It's POSSIBLE a black person could have been in the area, but there's no requirement for one to be there. It was not a BAD thing to not include a member of a demographic if it is highly unlikely a member of that demographic would be present. I didn't see any ire about there not being anyone of Oriental or South-East Asian descent.

Cyberpunk has widescale gender fluidity baked into its source material. So it's time to see if cdpr cares about accuracy, or safety.

Yes, time will tell. But it seems that the inclusion of a trans person in an example of in-game advertising is enough to really upset people because it's bad in a modern setting and therefore how dare they... or something. I suppose it's okay to have trans people in a game only when they are being portrayed in the most favorable of circumstances, but not when they're being exploited.

 

[Abomination]

That's why shit needs more than one gender non conforming character

Yes, time will tell.

Frankly, the 37 outrage articles about the 2 original outrage articles betray the notion that conservative gamers are less triggered.

2 original outrage articles and then many posts and blogs supporting said articles. Of course there's going to be disconnect but it's also poisoning the well to infer that people who argue a stance are overreacting as a passing shot.

Im really tired of being your third grade teacher on these subjects

Then don't engage me.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

So Vice did this video where it was said that the people who believe there's 70 sexes are not trans people but what you call "non-binary" which shouldn't be conflated with the trans people who just think there's 2 sexes and they identify with the other one and not the one they were born as.


So, the attack helicopter thing is more "nonbinary-phobic" and not transphobic.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

So Vice did this video where it was said that the people who believe there's 70 sexes are not trans people but what you call "non-binary" which shouldn't be conflated with the trans people who just think there's 2 sexes and they identify with the other one and not the one they were born as.


So, the attack helicopter thing is more "nonbinary-phobic" and not transphobic.

Isn't it kinda both? I mean the whole attack helicopter meme is that they're obviously not an attack helicopter. Meaning if someone says they're non-gender-fluid-conforming or simply a woman in a mans body, the analogy is that they're clearly not.
Hell the attack helicopter meme can be applied to just about anything. Trans-racial, trans-species, trans-age, trans-Kingdom for those who are trees, trans-cellular for someone who identifies as a single-celled organism.
The whole point of the meme was that just because to identify as something doesn't mean you are that thing.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

So Vice did this video where it was said that the people who believe there's 70 sexes are not trans people but what you call "non-binary" which shouldn't be conflated with the trans people who just think there's 2 sexes and they identify with the other one and not the one they were born as.


So, the attack helicopter thing is more "nonbinary-phobic" and not transphobic.

Isn't it kinda both? I mean the whole attack helicopter meme is that they're obviously not an attack helicopter. Meaning if someone says they're non-gender-fluid-conforming or simply a woman in a mans body, the analogy is that they're clearly not.
Hell the attack helicopter meme can be applied to just about anything. Trans-racial, trans-species, trans-age, trans-Kingdom for those who are trees, trans-cellular for someone who identifies as a single-celled organism.
The whole point of the meme was that just because to identify as something doesn't mean you are that thing.

I can see the argument for the otherkins, people who identify as wolves and dragons and whatnot, the amazing atheist made a hilarious video about them a while back, highly recommended. Pretty sure it's making fun of them.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

So Vice did this video where it was said that the people who believe there's 70 sexes are not trans people but what you call "non-binary" which shouldn't be conflated with the trans people who just think there's 2 sexes and they identify with the other one and not the one they were born as.


So, the attack helicopter thing is more "nonbinary-phobic" and not transphobic.

Isn't it kinda both? I mean the whole attack helicopter meme is that they're obviously not an attack helicopter. Meaning if someone says they're non-gender-fluid-conforming or simply a woman in a mans body, the analogy is that they're clearly not.
Hell the attack helicopter meme can be applied to just about anything. Trans-racial, trans-species, trans-age, trans-Kingdom for those who are trees, trans-cellular for someone who identifies as a single-celled organism.
The whole point of the meme was that just because to identify as something doesn't mean you are that thing.

I can see the argument for the otherkins, people who identify as wolves and dragons and whatnot, the amazing atheist made a hilarious video about them a while back, highly recommended. Pretty sure it's making fun of them.

What about someone trans-age or trans-racial? Trans-age I think can do with the otherkin, but trans-racial I want to say is more complicated, but I'm not sure I agree with myself, and I know its a slippery slope down to transphobic.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

So Vice did this video where it was said that the people who believe there's 70 sexes are not trans people but what you call "non-binary" which shouldn't be conflated with the trans people who just think there's 2 sexes and they identify with the other one and not the one they were born as.


So, the attack helicopter thing is more "nonbinary-phobic" and not transphobic.

Isn't it kinda both? I mean the whole attack helicopter meme is that they're obviously not an attack helicopter. Meaning if someone says they're non-gender-fluid-conforming or simply a woman in a mans body, the analogy is that they're clearly not.
Hell the attack helicopter meme can be applied to just about anything. Trans-racial, trans-species, trans-age, trans-Kingdom for those who are trees, trans-cellular for someone who identifies as a single-celled organism.
The whole point of the meme was that just because to identify as something doesn't mean you are that thing.

I can see the argument for the otherkins, people who identify as wolves and dragons and whatnot, the amazing atheist made a hilarious video about them a while back, highly recommended. Pretty sure it's making fun of them.

What about someone trans-age or trans-racial? Trans-age I think can do with the otherkin, but trans-racial I want to say is more complicated, but I'm not sure I agree with myself, and I know its a slippery slope down to transphobic.

Trans-race is imo a political ploy. People who like anime or Japanese games are called "weaboos" and not "trans-race-japanese" but when suddenly some lady wants to be black she's a new "thing" and not just a lady with a hobby? Please. XD


As for trans-age, I don't think "behaving your age" is a valid concept so I see no conflict in place when someone feels they're a different age. As long as they don't try to abuse things we have in place to get free stuff they don't deserve (like when a facility charges less for kids for example, you don't get that cause you identify as a kid) there's no issue.


I think being forever young at heart and forward looking is sign of an open mind, personally.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

Well didn't that one lady in Washington claim for like decades she was black, and she was like employed as like an NAACP president or something, when she was white and just wore heavy makeup?

As far as trans-age, I don't mean someone who acts mature/young for their age, that's all well and good. I mean the 16 year old who self-identifies as 21 so they should be allowed to buy booze or vote.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

SNIP

Well didn't that one lady in Washington claim for like decades she was black, and she was like employed as like an NAACP president or something, when she was white and just wore heavy makeup?

As far as trans-age, I don't mean someone who acts mature/young for their age, that's all well and good. I mean the 16 year old who self-identifies as 21 so they should be allowed to buy booze or vote.

Yeah she was just using makeup and curling her hair and stuff, basically the same as some guy wearing a kimono every day and geta sandals lol.

And the same thing that applies for the guy who'd wanna get in on a child ticket to a venue would apply to the 16 year old. You can participate as an equal to more mature conversations if you feel old enough but the law is only concerned with the actual time during which you have existed on this planet, which is factual and measurable.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I think a few people are dramatically over-estimating the level of "support" that gal got as soon as she got the slightest bit of scrutiny.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Remember when Witcher didn't have people of color and they claimed that they were only being lore accurate to the Witcher series, and that including poc would be messing with the source material?

Yeah, and they had a point. It was the Holy Roman Empire attacking what was essentially 4 Polands with interference from Scandinavia. A black person would be an anomaly. It's POSSIBLE a black person could have been in the area, but there's no requirement for one to be there. It was not a BAD thing to not include a member of a demographic if it is highly unlikely a member of that demographic would be present. I didn't see any ire about there not being anyone of Oriental or South-East Asian descent.

...except that The Witcher has brown people in its lore.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Well didn't that one lady in Washington claim for like decades she was black...

Rachel Dolezal? Yeah, she was artifically darkening her skin and wearing dark makeup, perming her hair, whole shebang. That's just the tip of the iceberg, she claims all kinds of crazy whacked out shit about her childhood. Like being raised in a teepee and bow hunting for food, living in South Africa under apartheid, being homeschooled for native heritage, and other shit.

 

[Bilious Green_v1legacy]

The professionally offended looking for easy clicks again. Hopefully CDPR will just tell them all to go pound sand.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Well didn't that one lady in Washington claim for like decades she was black...

Rachel Dolezal? Yeah, she was artifically darkening her skin and wearing dark makeup, perming her hair, whole shebang. That's just the tip of the iceberg, she claims all kinds of crazy whacked out shit about her childhood. Like being raised in a teepee and bow hunting for food, living in South Africa under apartheid, being homeschooled for native heritage, and other shit.

So...she's trans-racial, trans-historical, trans-continental and trans-experiential on top of maybe trans-personal