Celebrate old Escapists! The war against the newbies has been won!

[ForumSafari]

I guess I'm trying to make excuses for my inability to stop lurking around on the traditional games board.

It's alright, I'm mostly a fa/tg/uy too.

In fairness, there's a lot of trash too, but panning in that fetid stream of consciousness can lead to some golden nuggets.

Thing is that's every forum, for every 'elf slave wat do' thread there's one on here about Sarkeesian being attacked by misogynists or some other wow, just wow topic. Frankly I think every forum produces mostly shit, except for job related ones which are for serious usage.

 

[shrekfan246]

There are a lot of discussions I'd love to have that I simply cannot because on the internet there's always someone who is going to bring the entire conversation down to their level.

I'll be completely honest, when I got banned from here I went mainly to 4chan and honestly, whilst the language is a little more, shall we say, robust and full-bodied than here the level of discourse generally on a few of the boards blows this place out of the water. Not having persistent personalities and ban meters to track makes people more ready to take a punt on an unpopular stance.

I'm not going to derail this thread into a topic about moderation. Suffice it to say that it's really not that difficult to take an unpopular stance and still not run afoul of the moderation, and that the reasons many people eventually do get smacked down around here are the exact same reasons I actually functionally cannot bring myself to bother visiting Reddit or 4chan. I do not have the patience to sift through the immense walls of trash to find the tiny clearings that are worth hiding in, and then weather the flecks of trash that hit that clearing as well because it's debris coming from all other directions.

Incidentally, that's not altogether different from my reasons for having largely abandoned the forums here.

Also, I'm not trying to make any judgment passes on you. If you prefer the environment over on websites like 4chan or Reddit, good for you. I came to grips with the fact that I'm one of the weird people out when it comes to internet discussions a long time ago. I realize that the two sites in question are rather larger than other communities tend to give them credit for, but in a general sense I just don't want to help support any sort of community that propagates a culture in which "fag" is as casually thrown around as "bro" while still holding on to its homophobic connotations, to say nothing about the actually horrible things that happen in some of their corners.

Well, yes, I'm one of those people. ;D

Are you confessing to kill the forums?

I'm just pointing out this is probably the bigger issue.

I've been in on the conspiracy since day one. The plan worked perfectly, wuahahaha!

 

[Mikeybb]

Thing is that's every forum, for every 'elf slave wat do' thread there's one on here about Sarkeesian being attacked by misogynists or some other wow, just wow topic. Frankly I think every forum produces mostly shit, except for job related ones which are for serious usage.

That's probably true.

When you're used to a place and the way it works, you develop filters I guess.
A way of spotting what interests you out of the tat.
It's easy to forget that fresh eyes don't have those filters (or callouses in the case of some boards) grown in yet and it can seem a lot worse than it actually is.
Or, it doesn't seem as bad as it really is to those of us who are used to it, not so much blind to the problems but carrying a form of immunization.
Either could be true, or both.

 

[Barbas]

I don't miss a lot of the older posters. Some are great, but I don't recall seeing someone banned who didn't earn it. I remember watching and occasionally posting in this place several years ago and I'm unable to understand why people now thought that was better. It wasn't, it was just noisier and spammier. I guess they didn't see it before then when a lot of discussions really were discussions, you could be put on probation or banned for getting on the staff's bad side and posts were often several paragraphs long. You come across pretty quiet and thoughtful people who joined back then, but I can see why they don't feel like talking a lot. They certainly didn't feel that having been a member for multiple years without being banned for acting like an anti-social muppet was a laudable achievement. People like that don't really have a great need for praise.

Good times and bad times will come and go. Sticking around through them isn't impressive unless you can demonstrate that the experience has bettered you in some way. That's what makes it some form of accomplishment. These forums will have the growth and community they deserve when enough people realize that celebrating mass consensus, attaching celebrity status to self-interested behaviour and building friendships on little more than shared bigotries is a cheap and shallow way to live, and when enough stop mourning the past and start looking to the future. Constantly pining does nothing good for you or anyone else. Do something nice for someone else. Be the change you want to be.

 

[PsychicTaco115]

That's good and all but when do we collect our Social Security?

DAE remember things in the past, fuck I'm old xDDD

 

[Poetic Nova]

And here am I, joined only a few years ago and still knowing hardly anybody around here...

 

[The Lunatic]

Also, I'm not trying to make any judgment passes on you. If you prefer the environment over on websites like 4chan or Reddit, good for you. I came to grips with the fact that I'm one of the weird people out when it comes to internet discussions a long time ago. I realize that the two sites in question are rather larger than other communities tend to give them credit for, but in a general sense I just don't want to help support any sort of community that propagates a culture in which "fag" is as casually thrown around as "bro" while still holding on to its homophobic connotations, to say nothing about the actually horrible things that happen in some of their corners.

That's being a bit too simple on chan culture, honestly.

Words are very flexible, generally speaking, as far as the "Gay community" is concerned, "Fag" has been pretty much co-opted as a banterous word, usually thrown around as a subtle dig at another for engaging in overt and cliche homosexual behavior.

A SFW example between myself and a friend.

"I kinda want to go all out with pink on this one." "Fag. :V"

In the cases of Reddit and The Chans, they're very much fueled by memes and references. It's all about in-jokes and so on. calling people "Fags" in these places is typically originating from the whole "OP is a ******" thing. However, at the end of the day, the vast majority of 4chan is just people talking about stuff.

I know people love to paint 4chan as some big evil in the world where children are sacrificed, the elder gods are worshiped and The Bohemian Grove Memberships are handed out, but, in reality, it's just people talking about stuff. Most times it's completely mundane.

Now, you get a 6ft skin-head dressed in denim with leather boots calling somebody a fag? Yeah, that's very different.

Context is everything.

 

[shrekfan246]

That's being a bit too simple on chan culture, honestly.

Words are very flexible, generally speaking, as far as the "Gay community" is concerned, "Fag" has been pretty much co-opted as a banterous word, usually thrown around as a subtle dig at another for engaging in overt and cliche homosexual behavior.

A SFW example between myself and a friend.

"I kinda want to go all out with pink on this one." "Fag. :V"

I fail to see how that's different from what I said, to be honest. Unless you're specifically taking issue with my saying that co-opting the word "fag" doesn't somehow remove its homophobic connotations.

In the cases of Reddit and The Chans, they're very much fueled by memes and references. It's all about in-jokes and so on. calling people "Fags" in these places is typically originating from the whole "OP is a ******" thing. However, at the end of the day, the vast majority of 4chan is just people talking about stuff.

I know how it originated. That doesn't mean I feel like I can give it a pass or won't care about it because "that's just how things are over there". To be blunt, fuck that. "Fag", by the way, was just the quickest go-to example for me, there are loads of other things that are common parlance over on 4chan that I heavily disagree with because I think it makes the average quality of discourse intolerable. I don't care how "offensive" it may or may not be to the people involved, I still think there are far better ways of referring to someone than as a "furfag".

I know people love to paint 4chan as some big evil in the world where children are sacrificed, the elder gods are worshiped and The Bohemian Grove Memberships are handed out, but, in reality, it's just people talking about stuff. Most times it's completely mundane.

And that's why I pointed out that I know 4chan and Reddit are far larger and more diverse than a lot of people tend to think. That doesn't make a difference to me, however, because their most widely visible elements also happen to be what are frequently the most awful ones, and those elements are awful enough that I don't want to associate with them.

Now, you get a 6ft skin-head dressed in denim with leather boots calling somebody a fag? Yeah, that's very different.

Context is everything.

And given how common racism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, etc. still tend to be on the internet at large and on websites like Reddit or 4chan in particular, it's best for me personally to cut my losses and not bother in the first place. (EDIT: This is a bit of a non-sequitur relative to the quoted piece, I know, it was more just a jumping off point to say that "context doesn't let me excuse that everything around me is awful just because where I am in particular might not be quite as awful".)

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Kinda sad really, means ye olde forum is dying, but most of the content creators left so it makes sense, what is even drawing traffic here anymore?

I mean I come because I've been here for like one million years and I guess it's a habit to watch ZP, Critical Miss and Erin Dies Alone are things I read too and I've always like Shamus Young's Experienced Points column even if it keeps getting axed and coming back over and over again and I read Marter's movie reviews but that's kind of it, no more LRR [footnote]Unskippable, LoadingReadyRun, Feed Dump and an assortment of other shows that were all discontinued before way before they left.[/footnote], no more Moviebo[footnote]Like it or not he had 2 shows and a column and he drew in traffic.[/footnote], no more Jim Sterling[footnote]Besides being an editor and doing the Jimquisition he did those other videos with Yahtzee and stuff, definitely one that brought in traffic.[/footnote] and no more Miracle of Sound[footnote]Fairly relevant indie musician even if he's not really famous.[/footnote], that's not even mentioning the ones that left before and the ones I probably forgot, so you know there's way less reasons to come here than there used to be.

This.

About 1,000,000 times this.

I think moving content, namely Yahtzee, to youtube reeeeally hasn't helped with site traffic. People aren't getting drawn here for entertainment value anymore...but this is likely part of the overall trend in internet media. Moving from 'traditional' to youtube/twitch/etc and what not.

As for Bob and Jim? I haven't watched any of their stuff since they left, so...eh. Not a big deciding factor for me.

Not really sure why I keep coming here- Habit, I suppose? It's just part of my daily routine to lurk and maybe post a bit.

 

[The Lunatic]

Snip

Dunno about that. Just seems like you're taking offense to a formation of letters than the actual words themselves.

Ultimately, I think you should really let the people in question decide what's offensive or not, there's very little to be gained by getting offended for them, especially to things that probably don't even regard as offensive. I'm certainly not offended by people using the word "Fag" and by all accounts I am one.

Honestly, 4chan is pretty gay, actually. I mean, even /v/ frequently sees "Husbando" threads, and that's completely ignoring the fact 4chan has an entire section dedicated towards gay porn, /lgbt/ movements and so on.


By the way, Furfag is a hilarious term and anyone offended by it is also hilarious. There are very little detriments to using the word.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Kinda sad really, means ye olde forum is dying, but most of the content creators left so it makes sense, what is even drawing traffic here anymore?

I mean I come because I've been here for like one million years and I guess it's a habit to watch ZP, Critical Miss and Erin Dies Alone are things I read too and I've always like Shamus Young's Experienced Points column even if it keeps getting axed and coming back over and over again and I read Marter's movie reviews but that's kind of it, no more LRR [footnote]Unskippable, LoadingReadyRun, Feed Dump and an assortment of other shows that were all discontinued before way before they left.[/footnote], no more Moviebo[footnote]Like it or not he had 2 shows and a column and he drew in traffic.[/footnote], no more Jim Sterling[footnote]Besides being an editor and doing the Jimquisition he did those other videos with Yahtzee and stuff, definitely one that brought in traffic.[/footnote] and no more Miracle of Sound[footnote]Fairly relevant indie musician even if he's not really famous.[/footnote], that's not even mentioning the ones that left before and the ones I probably forgot, so you know there's way less reasons to come here than there used to be.

This.

About 1,000,000 times this.

I think moving content, namely Yahtzee, to youtube reeeeally hasn't helped with site traffic. People aren't getting drawn here for entertainment value anymore...but this is likely part of the overall trend in internet media. Moving from 'traditional' to youtube/twitch/etc and what not.

As for Bob and Jim? I haven't watched any of their stuff since they left, so...eh. Not a big deciding factor for me.

Not really sure why I keep coming here- Habit, I suppose? It's just part of my daily routine to lurk and maybe post a bit.

In a way I find it quite sad, the fact that everything's moving towards one/two sites that provide all our content. I've never been fan of the whole Singularity thing. It undermines plurality, a vital component for a healthy democratic society.

So yeah, as one of the old farts around here; bring on the new blood, if that new blood is friendly and mature.

As for the content, I'm actually quite happy with the new content. We got some nice movie-related content, with Good Bad Flicks and Matt as a decent reviewer, there's some cool stuff related to comics and cosplay, nice editorials even though I don't read them all that often and game reviews that seem pretty good as well. The only thing I find questionable is the increasingly sensationalist news posts, but that might be worked on.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Yaaaaay! We've driven out all the new users and contributed to the death of the site! Wooooo.... wait, this is a good thing?

Well, if people can be spiteful enough to watch their whole hobby burn, a forum isn't necessarily shocking.

Ah, yes, there we go. "This place was ruined for me, so I want to see it ruined for everyone!".

 

[shrekfan246]

Dunno about that. Just seems like you're taking offense to a formation of letters than the actual words themselves.

Ultimately, I think you should really let the people in question decide what's offensive or not, there's very little to be gained by getting offended for them, especially to things that probably don't even regard as offensive. I'm certainly not offended by people using the word "Fag" and by all accounts I am one.

snip snip etc.

I'm not offended for anyone; I'm annoyed by a lack of eloquence. I'm frustrated because people don't care about how they communicate, and in general they seem to find being as crude and crass as possible to be incredibly hilarious. I am embittered because the common dialect of the English-speaking internet seems to be "Troll". And above all else, I'm disappointed because it seems like the majority of people are content to leave things as they are and make excuses whenever somebody comes along to say, "Hey, maybe things could be better?"

 

[The Lunatic]

I'm not offended for anyone; I'm annoyed by a lack of eloquence. I'm frustrated because people don't care about how they communicate, and in general they seem to find being as crude and crass as possible to be incredibly hilarious. I am embittered because the common dialect of the English-speaking internet seems to be "Troll". And above all else, I'm disappointed because it seems like the majority of people are content to leave things as they are and make excuses whenever somebody comes along to say, "Hey, maybe things could be better?"

I guess, but, when it comes down to it, in regards to my comfort, I'd rather "Homophobia" on a site like 4chan than on a site like The Escapist.


4chan, somebody says something negative about homosexuals, I can brush it off as somebody shitposting, and it'll be gone without an hour or so as the topic sweeps out of the catalog.

The Escapist? They probably have a nuanced and thoroughly described opinion, and regardless of how offensive they are, people will discuss the opinion for days, they'll likely make multiple posts, and I'll have to content with knowing there is an active poster on the forums who has an deep dislike of me for my sexuality.

Even on a site which as "Progressive" of a userbase as The Escapist, you can still be made to feel like a pariah for being indifferent or not entirely supportive of things homosexuals are expected to be so.

 

[Something Amyss]

I've been in on the conspiracy since day one. The plan worked perfectly, wuahahaha!

I knew you had to be a reptiloid. The alternative--that someone actually liked a MikeMeyers movie--was too horrific!

But seriously, I'm not even sure the decline of the forums is a bad thing. Everything has its time, and everything dies.

Only thing I really miss is meeting people. I don't really bother on social media.

"Hey, maybe things could be better?"

It's amazing how much vitriol that can muster.

Now, you get a 6ft skin-head dressed in denim with leather boots calling somebody a fag? Yeah, that's very different.

The "funny" thing is they're not the ones that should worry people most. Because while that form of outright hate is damaging, they're not the ones setting the tone.

Like you said, context is important.

Yaaaaay! We've driven out all the new users and contributed to the death of the site! Wooooo.... wait, this is a good thing?

Well, if people can be spiteful enough to watch their whole hobby burn, a forum isn't necessarily shocking.

Ah, yes, there we go. "This place was ruined for me, so I want to see it ruined for everyone!".

Well, I mean, if it's not about me, what good is it?

 

[IceForce]

On other forums around the internet, it's not uncommon to see people with join dates more than a decade old. There's one particular forum I also frequent where almost all of the regulars have join dates 2003-2005.

Why does The Escapist have such a (comparatively) high turnover of users? Is it because people get bored of it quickly? Is it the moderation? Perhaps it's because people tend to join this site when they're fairly young IRL, and grow out of this place after a few years.
I'm not really sure the reason...

 

[Thaluikhain]

Words are very flexible, generally speaking, as far as the "Gay community" is concerned, "Fag" has been pretty much co-opted as a banterous word, usually thrown around as a subtle dig at another for engaging in overt and cliche homosexual behavior.

Er...might this be a region based thing, that "the" gay community you are talking about is "a" gay community? Cause there's plenty of gay men that would really, really disagree about that.

 

[God'sFist]

I guess I count as an oldy now huh interesting. It seems like only yesterday daystar and others were derailing threads with nathan falion memes and fire fly references. It seems that those days we had a bit more fun yes they were noisier and yeah they were chaotic but we had fun hell the mlp wars that were raging back then were fun too.

 

[09philj]

War against noobs? What?

...Please don't hurt me.

 

[shrekfan246]

I guess, but, when it comes down to it, in regards to my comfort, I'd rather "Homophobia" on a site like 4chan than on a site like The Escapist.

And at the end of the day, I'd rather there just not be any homophobia at all, as unrealistic as that may be.

I realize that isn't exactly a unique position. But I'm not exactly the type of person to accept any sort of compromise with regards to these sorts of things, which is exactly why I don't visit those websites and I strive to report any such posts I find here. I'm not content to accept that that's just the way things are.

Even on a site which as "Progressive" of a userbase as The Escapist, you can still be made to feel like a pariah for being indifferent or not entirely supportive of things homosexuals are expected to be so.

I'd snarkily wonder exactly how "progressive" the userbase here is anymore.

I've been in on the conspiracy since day one. The plan worked perfectly, wuahahaha!

I knew you had to be a reptiloid. The alternative--that someone actually liked a MikeMeyers movie--was too horrific!

But Mike Meyers is in on the conspiracy as well.

You don't even know how deeply it runs. Here, let me help you.

Only thing I really miss is meeting people. I don't really bother on social media.

You and me both.

"Hey, maybe things could be better?"

It's amazing how much vitriol that can muster.

Yeeeaaaaahhhh.

"If you want to make enemies, try to change something."