cheap VS Efficient

[Bouncing Ferret FIlm]

We've all played online games. We've all accused people of cheating or being cheap. And We've all been accused of being cheap by using "efficient" methods on the battle field.

So what's the difference? Where do you draw the line. I'm not talking "hacking". Like in team fortress, where you see Floating engineers putting their turrets up in the air, or on top of buildings they aren't suppose to be able to get too. I'm talking about the difference between a Good, creative move, something that even the game designers probably didn't expect.

For example. Having a turret set up in front of the "intelligence" to where it will cover both corners. Then drop a dispenser in the far corner and have two pyros laying down endless fire on the two door ways, keeping spys from being able to come in. This is a good defense.

And something CHEAP and unsportsmanly. For example. dropping a turret right outside of the main spawn point... NOT cool.

Say in MW4, setting up a good sniper point and keeping the scope open VS respawn camping.

So where do you draw the line?

 

[ethaninja]

Some people just get pissy when the opposition uses said efficent moves. Hence why they claim that you suck. I tend to ignore those folks. I am kicking their ass after all. But I never do the 'cheap' things because.. well, where is the skill in that?

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Shoto characters in Street Fighter. Now I'm all for people using whatever characters they like, but when a good 75% of people I play online use Ryu, you know there's a problem. Fast projectiles and anti-air moves? That's rather broken if you ask me. At least characters like Guile can't spam their moves to kingdom come.

 

[socialmenace42]

I strongly believe there's a special circle of hell reserved for spawncampers...

But I won't resent someone for setting up a turret in an ingenious position, like behind a much used door, because that's using ingenuity.

I also don't resent people for being resourcefull, like grabbing peoples crates after they've gunned them down. that's just opportunistic gaming.

 

[Eliam_Dar]

Funny that you took TF2 as an example, just yesterday I was playing a payload match, and I noticed a large amount of engies in both teams, suddendly while attacking I was killed by a sniper (kudos to him, excellent skill he literally heaadshot me in the air), and when I respawn again I found turrets near the spawn point, lucky for me I as an efficient demoman, took the torrets down, and went to the attack again, I got revenge on the sniper, but I was killed by a heavy+medic combo...again to the spawn point...again turrets, this time more, and they killed me twice... to make the story short, I consider that a cheap tactic

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Shoto characters in Street Fighter. Now I'm all for people using whatever characters they like, but when a good 75% of people I play online use Ryu, you know there's a problem. Fast projectiles and anti-air moves? That's rather broken if you ask me. At least characters like Guile can't spam their moves to kingdom come.

Agreed.
I main Chun Li.
(read: no anti-air moves except an EX-Spinning Bird that requires Ex-Gauge and will not stand up to a Dragon Punch or Cannon Spike)

I also hate that the Ryu/Ken Hurricane Kick passes through projectiles (Dragon Punch already does that) and to make matters worse for me, it has priority over the Spinning Bird Kick... Since they already own the highest priority move in the game (Dragon Punch) was it necessary to make their Hurricane Kick over-power Chun Li's? It's not like her specials have any priority in general. But you can't fault players for that (the devs on the other hand...)

OP: To add to the above, some games have a minute amount of lag (SC4 on PS3, for example) which will undermine blocking against certain quick up/down combos. I've met a few players who will relentlessly spam either Sophitia's or Mitsurugi's quick up/down combo because it is nearly impossible to block while online, even if you know it's coming. That's cheap right there!

At least Cammy lacks projectiles, I also use Sakura alot, but she could never be Shoto, considering that her hadoukens lack range and speed (I like to use the 3 various charges on that move on people who miss-time their jumps or for a point blank blast to the fast on wake up), her shoryruken arcs as well so that's not a great anti air move.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

MW4?

Modern Warfare 4?

Are you from the future?

 

[Marter]

We've all played online games. We've all accused people of cheating or being cheap. And We've all been accused of being cheap by using "efficient" methods on the battle field.
I have never been accused of using "cheap" tactics while playing an online game.

So where do you draw the line?

I've yet to have to draw any line. Unless something is actually "broken", I'm going to use anything within the parameters of the game to win.

 

[Bouncing Ferret FIlm]

Shoto characters in Street Fighter. Now I'm all for people using whatever characters they like, but when a good 75% of people I play online use Ryu, you know there's a problem. Fast projectiles and anti-air moves? That's rather broken if you ask me. At least characters like Guile can't spam their moves to kingdom come.

Agreed.
I main Chun Li.
(read: no anti-air moves except an EX-Spinning Bird that requires Ex-Gauge and will not stand up to a Dragon Punch or Cannon Spike)

I also hate that the Ryu/Ken Hurricane Kick passes through projectiles (Dragon Punch already does that) and to make matters worse for me, it has priority over the Spinning Bird Kick... Since they already own the highest priority move in the game (Dragon Punch) was it necessary to make their Hurricane Kick over-power Chun Li's? It's not like her specials have any priority in general. But you can't fault players for that (the devs on the other hand...)

OP: To add to the above, some games have a minute amount of lag (SC4 on PS3, for example) which will undermine blocking against certain quick up/down combos. I've met a few players who will relentlessly spam either Sophitia's or Mitsurugi's quick up/down combo because it is nearly impossible to block while online, even if you know it's coming. That's cheap right there!

At least Cammy lacks projectiles, I also use Sakura alot, but she could never be Shoto, considering that her hadoukens lack range and speed (I like to use the 3 various charges on that move on people who miss-time their jumps or for a point blank blast to the fast on wake up), her shoryruken arcs as well so that's not a great anti air move.

yeah, i have been known to be banned from a couple of characters in different fighting games

 

[milskidasith]

Anybody who complains about cheapness is a scrub. They can be good at the game, but they will never improve by putting mental limitations on certain aspects of the game. If it works, use it.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

It's not the fault of the player for using "cheap" tactics, it's the developers for having them in the game in the first place.

EG,OM

 

[Bouncing Ferret FIlm]

Anybody who complains about cheapness is a scrub. They can be good at the game, but they will never improve by putting mental limitations on certain aspects of the game. If it works, use it.

I say the same thing about "cheaters".

 

[milskidasith]

Anybody who complains about cheapness is a scrub. They can be good at the game, but they will never improve by putting mental limitations on certain aspects of the game. If it works, use it.

I say the same thing about "cheaters".

Since when is using stuff that is in the game cheating? The only thing that is cheating is doing something beyond the normal parameters of the game. Read the book Playing To Win, by David Sirlin, it explains the view I have better than I can, though I'll certainly be forced into an argument in this topic anyway.

 

[child of lileth]

I don't think it's cheap. Some people just don't think, and when they lose, they like to come up with excuses like saying people are being cheap.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

On one hand, I agree with everyone about rewarding smart moves. But on the other hand, sometimes its just not fun to be completely destroyed over and over and over and being able to do nothing. Games are for fun, getting steamrolled isnt

 

[Bouncing Ferret FIlm]

Anybody who complains about cheapness is a scrub. They can be good at the game, but they will never improve by putting mental limitations on certain aspects of the game. If it works, use it.

I say the same thing about "cheaters".

Since when is using stuff that is in the game cheating? The only thing that is cheating is doing something beyond the normal parameters of the game. Read the book Playing To Win, by David Sirlin, it explains the view I have better than I can, though I'll certainly be forced into an argument in this topic anyway.

Let me be clear, Hacking a sight to where you can place a turret in an area your not suppose to be in so that it can shoot people but they can't shoot it is cheating. This is my definition of cheating,

Dropping a Teleporter exit right at the enemies intelligence is smart and innovative.

Dropping a turret right outside the spawn barracks to when the enemy opens their main door they are immediately killed is cheap.

Playing a full team of one particular type is STUPID!

I get annoyed when people complain snipers of camping... their snipers! they're SUPPOSE TO! Someone with a twelve gage hiding in a corner in the blind spot of a hallway, waiting for someone to run by is being innovative and using the weapon correctly. This is not camping. Learn where they are and apply the appropriate strategy to take them down. I had a spy hiding in a dark corner, he stabbed everyone in the back who ran by and ranked up quite a score. When he did it to me, i saw in the kill cam where he was hiding. WHen i respawned, i took my rocket and shot him from across the room. BOYA *****.

Spawning into a game only to have the enemy waiting for you and shooting you IS camping and is cheap because your not giving the other person any chance what so ever.

Hope that makes things a bit clear.

I dont cheap out and cry when someone better than me whoops my ass. I learn form the experience and grow.

 

[Audioave10]

Your first line isn't entirely correct. I have never played online. My bad.

 

[ultrachicken]

People accuse you of being cheap when they kick your ass in an attempt to get you to stop using your strategy, so that they can move in for the kill. Or they're just trolling.

 

[YouCallMeNighthawk]

Noob tubes off the starting line or just firing in the line where your spawn runs at the start of a round GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

I tend to play the stealthy role trying to get behind the enemy lines popping up and killing a few leaving a gap for my team mates to rush through. Often ends in failure.

 

[Thaius]

It depends on the situation, really. For instance, in Gears of War 2, if you have something to guard, sitting around a corner waiting to one-shot anyone who comes by would be a good tactic: you have something to protect, and you're defending it. On the other hand, if it's just a slayer game and all you're doing is sitting in one corner waiting for people to come around it, that's just stupid: it's the same action, but in the context of a slayer it displays a lack of skill rather than a creative strategy.

But it also sometimes depends on the balance of the game itself. For instance, again in Gears 2, the melee stuns your opponent for a second. An awesome tactic is to stun them for a second and use your shotgun to blow them to bits, called a two-piece. However, the melee is simply too powerful. Not only does it stun them, it deals enough damage that two melees in a row can bring someone down: in other words, any noob with a B button can just mash that thing and bring you down. Even with two-piecing, it means that the aim needed is not very precise. Due to an imbalance in the game, a tactic that would be legitimate and skillful is instead cheap and stupid.