Oh man I know what you mean. The AI in AOM on titan/god difficulty goes through the ages like a fat kid goes through skittles and still "has" the resources needed to churn out champion units.Gabanuka said:
Cheating AI
- Thread starter Blatherscythe
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They don't cheat per-se since the pokemon they use come from a fixed list, which is specific to every trainer. They also don't specifically know what you are about to do, at least I have never seen proof of this. Even on very high (multiple hundred) streaks in subway/tower/whatever they don't play perfectly.Terminate421 said:
Also S.T.A.L.K.E.R. The odd thing is that in many ways this game is perfectly fair, (you are EXACTLY the same as every NPC in the world, with only your gear making a difference), although you still fight multiple opponents most of the time. Everyone goes down very quickly, including you, and the AI is reasonable on low difficulties, and very very hard on the harder difficulties, (which is what you'd want after all).
The problem is grenades. Any grenade thrown by an enemy literally homes in on the PC, and will not touch the ground unless it is within its explosion radius of the player. It is still possible to dodge them once they land, but the AI is programmed to have all grenade using enemies throw them at once. This means that you will very often get into a situation where it is impossible to survive, because there are multiple grenades around you, and you will die no matter which way you run.
Basically every game where an enemy is able to throw a grenade or something similar.
How come every single enemy is able to throw a grenade so perfectly and land right on your feet every single time?
I'm looking at you, Call of Duty, Halo, Mass Effect 3.
How come every single enemy is able to throw a grenade so perfectly and land right on your feet every single time?
I'm looking at you, Call of Duty, Halo, Mass Effect 3.
I think it's different if an AI is not properly randomized/humanized an if it's cheating.
Cheating is breaking the common rules that the players has to abide by too. Like speed of movement, rate of fire, damage dealt out and/or taken by the same weapons. Or starting ressources, cost of building, etc.
It has to be said though, that especially in games that feature little strategy, like shooters, AIs are technically unbeatable. They aren't playing the game with keyboard and mouse, they don't have a visual cortex or central nervous system.
You are entering THEIR world of 0s and 1s. The way a bot "sees" you is by looking up your x-y-z coordinates. By definition, he will now surely hit you, since there's no aiming involved. But the AI is not cheating. It's like entering a calculating contest with a computer and complaining that it's always faster than you...
Cheating is breaking the common rules that the players has to abide by too. Like speed of movement, rate of fire, damage dealt out and/or taken by the same weapons. Or starting ressources, cost of building, etc.
It has to be said though, that especially in games that feature little strategy, like shooters, AIs are technically unbeatable. They aren't playing the game with keyboard and mouse, they don't have a visual cortex or central nervous system.
You are entering THEIR world of 0s and 1s. The way a bot "sees" you is by looking up your x-y-z coordinates. By definition, he will now surely hit you, since there's no aiming involved. But the AI is not cheating. It's like entering a calculating contest with a computer and complaining that it's always faster than you...
Lvl 9 CPU's in Brawl have one aspect that make them cheating bastards. When in an up-close punch exchange, they will shield your attacks the instant you make them at least 90% of the time.
I mean, granted, they aren't anywhere near unbeatable, but damn it if I don't get annoyed by seeing a series of attacks shielded in the very instant they take place.XD
I mean, granted, they aren't anywhere near unbeatable, but damn it if I don't get annoyed by seeing a series of attacks shielded in the very instant they take place.XD
Yeah. I just got into it though, and I'm really loving it. I recommend you try it some more, it's really fun once you get over the weird hotkeys and old design.Blatherscythe said:
Warzone 2100 Skirmish AI...
I'm sorry but the AI on that game must be cheating if in the time it takes me to set up 1 machine gun turret and have 5 tanks ready, the AI seems to have a whole 100+ strong army equiped with tank busters, rail/gauss guns and VTOL air craft.
I'm sorry but the AI on that game must be cheating if in the time it takes me to set up 1 machine gun turret and have 5 tanks ready, the AI seems to have a whole 100+ strong army equiped with tank busters, rail/gauss guns and VTOL air craft.
Black and White 2 had infinitely spawning armies infinitely spawning villagers and self charging doomsday wonders for the AI and the game STILL managed to be way too easy. They also had infinite resources which didn't help them at all.
One time I made a volcano spew lava over the AI town center, causing an infinite number of women and children to come running out on fire, it was a nightmare! I still hear the screams, Peter M used to be messed up in the head! I miss those days...
One time I made a volcano spew lava over the AI town center, causing an infinite number of women and children to come running out on fire, it was a nightmare! I still hear the screams, Peter M used to be messed up in the head! I miss those days...
You think that is bad in Guilty Gear the I sat there FOR 3 HOURS trying to beat the final boss (fucking uber-powered super moved) and then I just gave up and turned off. While a lot of fighting games do this none that I've played (sorry KoF) have been this cheapReet72 said:
CAPATCHA: love-hate
yesterday I played a hand of red dead redemption poker and there were three people left in it when i turned over my hand. I didn't have much only the three of a kind (4s) which was on the table and high card king.
the other guy turned over his hand and had the same 3 of a kind with 4s on the table king in hand.
Herbert fucking Moon had the exact same thing but with a queen instead of a king.
so it should be split between me and the other guy right? nope herbert moon takes the entire fucking pot. fucking herbert moon. hes a racist on top of everything else.
needless to say i stood up from the table and put a bullet through his skull.
the other guy turned over his hand and had the same 3 of a kind with 4s on the table king in hand.
Herbert fucking Moon had the exact same thing but with a queen instead of a king.
so it should be split between me and the other guy right? nope herbert moon takes the entire fucking pot. fucking herbert moon. hes a racist on top of everything else.
needless to say i stood up from the table and put a bullet through his skull.
I'd say any fighting game on the harder difficulties. Simply because the AI is just looking at your button inputs and just countering the shit out of them. I'm sure it was setting up unblockables every five seconds in as well. (using UMVC3 as the example)
Also the final boss of Skullgirls is ridiculous. I honestly couldn't tell you how to beat her if you don't have an air super (Filia!) for her final form. Spent so long trying to beat her with the grapple character... This boss scorns any attempts to use a throw or command grab DX
Yes the final boss is a keepaway character with far too much health and a bullshit final form. Still nowhere near as bad as the final boss of DoA4 though. Fuck your bullshit to hell Alpha 152. You are nothing to me!
Also the final boss of Skullgirls is ridiculous. I honestly couldn't tell you how to beat her if you don't have an air super (Filia!) for her final form. Spent so long trying to beat her with the grapple character... This boss scorns any attempts to use a throw or command grab DX
Yes the final boss is a keepaway character with far too much health and a bullshit final form. Still nowhere near as bad as the final boss of DoA4 though. Fuck your bullshit to hell Alpha 152. You are nothing to me!
Most AIs in games, especially strategy/fighting games cheat. It's a lazy and cheap alternative to making them smarter.
StarCraft AI does in fact cheat, as is common in most games of the type they know where everything is despite having never seen it and the fog of war. You could make a map with 500 paths to player starts, load 1 on 1 and they'd always choose the right path to your base. They also cheat with resources. I've used the map editor to give them 1 mineral and 1 gas and no resources and they built a whole base. But I believe they had to have at least 1 of the resource type to use it. If they had 0 vespene, they wouldn't build stuff that required it. Combining those types of things and their ability to micromanage everything, every millisecond is what gives them a chance of competing against human players.
I don't mind that AI players cheat so long as it's not obvious. When it is obvious it's irritating. It can make it a good challenge, but one of the most obvious cheating AIs is in Company of Heroes. Especially if you put them on Expert, but that's what you're getting in exchange for a good challenge. It'd work better if they'd tone down the omniscience and occasional fog of war cheating so their AT guns can nail you from two screen away without any visibility assistance.
Off the top of my head the games that cheat the most excessively and obviously is Civilization V, every fighting game ever (especially Soul Calibur 3 and Mortal Kombat 2/3), Need for Speed games (really bad imo) and Mario Kart games. In Mario Kart 64 they would literally teleport extreme distances to catch up to you. You can use hacks/cheats to drive at super speeds in Need for Speed and they'd magically keep up with you. So it doesn't matter how much you upgrade or how well you drive, they'll always be there and that's when I gave up on the series. It made it feel so artificial and pointless.
Check this site out for some good reading on the subject:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard
StarCraft AI does in fact cheat, as is common in most games of the type they know where everything is despite having never seen it and the fog of war. You could make a map with 500 paths to player starts, load 1 on 1 and they'd always choose the right path to your base. They also cheat with resources. I've used the map editor to give them 1 mineral and 1 gas and no resources and they built a whole base. But I believe they had to have at least 1 of the resource type to use it. If they had 0 vespene, they wouldn't build stuff that required it. Combining those types of things and their ability to micromanage everything, every millisecond is what gives them a chance of competing against human players.
I don't mind that AI players cheat so long as it's not obvious. When it is obvious it's irritating. It can make it a good challenge, but one of the most obvious cheating AIs is in Company of Heroes. Especially if you put them on Expert, but that's what you're getting in exchange for a good challenge. It'd work better if they'd tone down the omniscience and occasional fog of war cheating so their AT guns can nail you from two screen away without any visibility assistance.
Off the top of my head the games that cheat the most excessively and obviously is Civilization V, every fighting game ever (especially Soul Calibur 3 and Mortal Kombat 2/3), Need for Speed games (really bad imo) and Mario Kart games. In Mario Kart 64 they would literally teleport extreme distances to catch up to you. You can use hacks/cheats to drive at super speeds in Need for Speed and they'd magically keep up with you. So it doesn't matter how much you upgrade or how well you drive, they'll always be there and that's when I gave up on the series. It made it feel so artificial and pointless.
Check this site out for some good reading on the subject:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard
I forgot about the grenade cheating in STALKER, brings back memories. I remember standing on a fence that was like 2inches wide and some dude tosses a grenade that lands perfectly on the fence at my feet (no bouncing or rolling off) and blows me away. Riiiight. Those guys could throw a key into a lock.Zagzag said: