Check Your Privilege!

[Ice Car]

I like how you didn't even pretend to care that you were being ableist and discriminatory. This really isn't about you, get over yourself.

Are you talking to me?

 

[Ice Car]

I like how you didn't even pretend to care that you were being ableist and discriminatory. This really isn't about you, get over yourself.

Are you talking to me?

Yes.
I'll care about whether or not I'm offending you when I'm talking about your family, or a movie, or that trip you just took.
I'll care about whether or not I'm alienating you from the cause once we're liberated or at least have the voice we need.
But when I'm talking about liberation and politics and calling people out on their shit, I don't really care, my concern isn't with you.

I never said I was offended or felt by anything the social justice community said, lol, and to begin with, this was an aimless rant without any target. I don't really care if nobody cares, let alone you.

In any case, would you care to elaborate on how I was being ableist of discriminatory? Please point out to me the specific areas where I said such things.

 

[Ice Car]

I never said I was offended or felt by anything the social justice community said, lol, and to begin with, this was an aimless rant without any target. I don't really care if nobody cares, let alone you.

I don't really care who your post was or wasn't directed at, you clearly have issues with people poitning out or asking you to realize your privilege.

In any case, would you care to elaborate on how I was being ableist of discriminatory? Please point out to me the specific areas where I said such things.

Seriously?

Being comfortable in your own skin and being white does not automatically make you a privileged individual you fucking retard, there are numerous other factors that go into defining someone's "privilege."

Oh, whoops, silly me, how ableist of me to call someone a retard! I should have called them trash instead, though golly me, that might be offensive to garbage men all over the world! I should stop being such an oppressive piece of shit.

Oh, that one? I knew someone would eventually, completely unironically, "call me out" on that one.

I use the word to describe people who are dumb. That's it. No underlying discriminator behavior or feelings towards people who are mentally ill. I've been friends with a lot of people are are mentally ill and they're just fine.

Please just cut the crap with this "ableist" bullshit. If I'm not calling someone who's mentally ill a "retard" then why does it matter? This is coming from someone with numerous mental disabilities by the way, someone who's attended speech therapy and been in special ed for the entirety of my grade school years. Your turn.

Oh shoot, am I suddenly a poser right now? Someone who pretended to mentally ill to get it easier? Am I "appropriating mentally ill people for my own benefit?"

hm

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

Straight, white, male, atheist.

You live with 45 out of 100 points of privilege.

Because all that privilege talk is nonsense. Life doesn't care about statistics, your life can still suck even if you're in the "best category".

 

[Ice Car]

Oh, that one? I knew someone would eventually unironically call me out on that one.

I use the word to describe people who are dumb. That's it. No underlying discriminator behavior or feelings towards people who are mentally ill. I've been friends with a lot of people are are mentally ill and they're just fine.

Please just cut the crap with this "ableist" bullshit. If I'm not calling someone who's mentally ill a "retard" then why does it matter? This is coming from someone with numerous mental disabilities by the way.

Using oppressive language against people who aren't being oppressed by it doesn't magically strip the word of its meaning or power. I'll cut the ableist bullshit when people stop being ableist, deal with it.
Want to call your friend a ******? Homophobic.
Want to call your friend a *****? Sexist.
Want to call your friend a ******? Racist.
Want to call your friend a retard? Ableist.

Oppressive words are oppressive not matter how you use them.

So, calling my close friend, who is straight, a ******, as a joke, means I am homophobic? It is completely impossible for me to use these words and not be a homophobic, sexist, racist, ableist, piece of shit, am I correct in that assumption? Are people who have mental disabilities all over the world crying about how some random user on the Escapist said the word "retard" as an insult? Is the oppression too much for you to handle? :^)

I have never once called someone who is mentally ill a retard. I only call people who are stupid or ignorant, retards. This is such a non-issue because literally the only people who are going to be offended by this are people who I'm not even fucking referring to.

 

[EvilMaggot]

77/100 not really shocked tbh.. i live in Denmark, which was awarded the happiest country in the world some years back xD

 

[Ice Car]

So, calling my close friend, who is straight, a ******, as a joke, means I am homophobic?

No, it means that what you're doing is homophobic.

It is completely impossible for me to use these words and not be a homophobic, sexist, racist, ableist, piece of shit, am I correct in that assumption?

It's impossible to use them without it being homophobic etc.

Are people who have mental disabilities all over the world crying about how some random user on the Escapist said the word "retard" as an insult? Is the oppression too much for you to handle? :^)

I don't think they really care about what you have to say. I'm simply telling you the reality of your word usage. If it's too much to handle you can cry your liberal self to sleep.

Read my edit. I edit my posts a lot right after posting them. It's a bad habit I should probably stop.

Also, please explain how the mere usage of language suddenly makes me afraid of homosexuals, or think of them as less of a human being? I'll use whatever damn words I want as long as I'm not calling someone who's actually gay "a ******," or someone who has autism "a retard."

I've been taught from a young age to treat everybody the same, but I've also learned while growing up that words do not only have one meaning or method of usage. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

The internet is such a big place, that no matter where you make your statement, someone outside of the target of your words is going to see it, and take offense to it. That much is a given. The result from the internet being so big and having such a diverse userbase is that someone, somewhere, is going to find anything and everything on the internet offensive in some way. If I used the word "retard" in a sentence in the same way with my friends in real life, they would literally not give a shit, and I would use it because I know they do not take offense to it. Trying to protect everybody and determine anything that could be considered remotely offensive, as offensive, is going to make a lot of things seem offensive to you.

I don't use it when talking to people who are autistic though. Why? Because they take offense to it. I tailor my language to the audience I'm speaking to, and the audience I'm speaking to are not people who are mentally ill, but people who are fucking dumb as shit.

I literally don't know how much more clearly I could spell this out.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

To fail to understand that the oppressed hating their oppressors is a natural and often justified position is ignorant. What you're actually complaining about is people not being nice enough for you. It is not an oppressed person's job to educate their oppressor, do you feel offended by someone's tone? Deal with it, oppressed people have been dealing with your shit their whole lives. Also, being able to have a reliable internet connection is usually a sign of class privilege, though there are plenty of homeless who can access it if they have a wi-fi ready device.

Wow, this stuff right there. I'm always amazed how many people who "fight for justice" can't see how hateful and bigot they sound when they splurt that nonsense.
Generalizations and prejudice condenced in one hate-oozing post. How could anyone be ever offended by someone claiming he's a giant asshole just for being white.

 

[Ice Car]

To fail to understand that the oppressed hating their oppressors is a natural and often justified position is ignorant. What you're actually complaining about is people not being nice enough for you. It is not an oppressed person's job to educate their oppressor, do you feel offended by someone's tone? Deal with it, oppressed people have been dealing with your shit their whole lives. Also, being able to have a reliable internet connection is usually a sign of class privilege, though there are plenty of homeless who can access it if they have a wi-fi ready device.

Wow, this stuff right there. I'm always amazed how many people who "fight for justice" can't see how hateful and bigot they sound when they splurt that nonsense.
Generalizations and prejudice condenced in one hate-oozing post. How could anyone be ever offended by someone claiming he's a giant asshole just for being white.

Careful now, you might get called a privileged scumlord if you keep that up! All these white tears!

Everybody knows that it's completely impossible for people who are oppressed to be bigoted! That would be ridiculous!

 

[K12]

In my experience women are often far more wary of being out at night on their own and may be in harms way less often than a fairly big young male who can handle himself getting mugged by a gang of 5 guys with knives.

Oh yeah, let me tell you. As a slightly larger than averaged sized young male, I can totally take on five guys with knives by myself.

Are you an idiot? This is what people like me are talking about when we talk about people not taking issues that affect men seriously. You're HONESTLY trying to claim that men don't need to worry about violent crime because apparently most of us can take on five guys with knives by ourselves. Yeah, maybe if you're fucking Bruce Lee, you can do that. The average guy on the street can't. You're now bending reality to try and make it fit your claims, meaning your claims don't have a leg to stand on to begin with.

Yeah that's obviously what I meant... I am saying that a man against 5 guys with a knife will obviously lose, that was kind of my whole. A man who can generally handle himself may be more likely to be in a position where he is up against five guys with a knife because he may take more risks (on the basis that minor threats are less of an issue and therefore the overall risk to him is less than for a woman who has no confidence in fighting off anyone)

Such as this little gem:"The reason that men get attacked more often is not necessarily to do with being more often targeted but may be a case of being in dangerous situations."

No, the reason that men get attacked (for non-sexual crimes, at any rate) more often is because of this mindset that some, typically less couth, individuals have where while violence against women is a travesty, violence against men is perfectly acceptable. So if a gang of muggers is looking for a target, there's a solid chance their victim will be male out of some reservation against mugging a woman. You're trying to make it where if men are the victims of a crime, it's somehow our fault. You're really no different here than the people who claim that if women get raped, it was their fault for wearing skimpy clothing. Disgusting.

I think there should be a rule about deleting part of comment when you're attacking it.

The part you deleted from my comment:

It's also worth saying that perpetrators of all violent crimes are predominantly male. There is a difference between member of a group attacking a member of the same group compared to a member of a social group attacking members of a different social group.

(btw I hope this won't be interpreted as me saying "the men deserve it for taking risks", I am simply saying that higher assaults and muggings on men might not be because they are more often targeted)"

I think it's clear that I was not blaming men for being attacked. Merely saying that the "men are more often victims of assault and mugging -> men are victimised" is too simplistic and may not actually be the explanation. For what it's worth I think that the "fair game" hypothesis does form part of the explanation but probably not all of it.

 

[K12]

Oh, that one? I knew someone would eventually unironically call me out on that one.

I use the word to describe people who are dumb. That's it. No underlying discriminator behavior or feelings towards people who are mentally ill. I've been friends with a lot of people are are mentally ill and they're just fine.

Please just cut the crap with this "ableist" bullshit. If I'm not calling someone who's mentally ill a "retard" then why does it matter? This is coming from someone with numerous mental disabilities by the way.

Using oppressive language against people who aren't being oppressed by it doesn't magically strip the word of its meaning or power. I'll cut the ableist bullshit when people stop being ableist, deal with it.
Want to call your friend a ******? Homophobic.
Want to call your friend a *****? Sexist.
Want to call your friend a ******? Racist.
Want to call your friend a retard? Ableist.

Oppressive words are oppressive not matter how you use them.

Don't you consider the de-stigmatisation of words as a significant point along the road to de-stigmatisation of their targets?

I, for one, feel extremely uncomfortable using the N-word (I didn't even type it here) but I have often used the word "dyke" when talking to a lesbian friend of mine. She uses it too and calls me a "filthy breeder" (a phrase I absolutely love by the way) and there is clearly no animosity over this situation for either of us. Neither are homo/heterophobic and we are both saying it in the knowledge that neither of us hates the other.

Would you ban people from saying the word "sinister" because it comes from the notion that left-handed people are evil (look it up). This all smacks of genetic fallacy to me. Language evolves, the meaning and connotations of words are not fixed.

Have you seen the South Park episode on the word "******" by the way? I'm British and "Fag" means cigarette to me and my Dad uses it to mean "irritating task" (e.g. carrying these boxes up the stairs is a real Fag) although I think he is the only person I have ever heard who uses it this way.

I think there's a continuum on these matters and people should set their own limits and do their best to respect the limits of the people they are currently with but I think the "you said X therefore you are a Y" is kinda silly.

 

[Ice Car]

Also, please explain how the mere usage of language suddenly makes me afraid of homosexuals, or think of them as less of a human being? I'll use whatever damn words I want as long as I'm not calling someone who's actually gay "a ******," or someone who has autism "a retard."

Right, so I'm going to take a risk here and tune it down a notch because I want to say something personal. I do not feel comfortable being around people who use the word ****** in any sense. If someone uses the word, a space automatically becomes unsafe, I don't know if that person would react negatively or aggressively to me if he knew my sexuality. And at any rate, it's a word that's been used against me and people like me consistently, the word might not bring up feelings of homophobia and hate for you, but it certainly does for others.

I've been taught from a young age to treat everybody the same, but I've also learned while growing up that words do not only have one meaning or method of usage.

Yes, but at the same time words do not simply lose their power and meaning when you need them to.

The internet sucis h a big place, that no matter where you make your statement, someone outside of the target of your words is going to see it, and take offense to it. That much is a given. The result from the internet being so big and having such a diverse userbase is that someone, somewhere, is going to find anything and everything on the internet offensive in some way. If I used the word "retard" in a sentence in the same way with my friends in real life, they would literally not give a shit, and I would use it because I know they do not take offense to it.

I don't use it when talking to people who are autistic though. Why? Because they take offense to it. I tailor my language to the audience I'm speaking to, and the audience I'm speaking to are not people who are mentally ill, but people who are fucking dumb as shit.

I literally don't know how much more clearly I could spell this out.

I don't care what you say to your friends in private and you know they won't get offended by it. Don't say it in fucking public.

Wow, this stuff right there. I'm always amazed how many people who "fight for justice" can't see how hateful and bigot they sound when they splurt that nonsense.
Generalizations and prejudice condenced in one hate-oozing post. How could anyone be ever offended by someone claiming he's a giant asshole just for being white.

It's extremely rare to hear anyone say that, I certainly didn't and no one in this thread said it. And I really don't care if I offend your liberal "left-wing until is affects me!" sensibilities. Try seeing things through the eyes of the oppressed for once.

[/quote]

There's a difference between saying something in public and saying it on the internet. That was the entire point of that tangent about the internet and everything being offensive to somebody.

The audience is much wider than if you used it on a case-by-case basis with people in private. Tumblr demands that people tailor their language such that nobody, anywhere, could possibly take offense. If I recall, that's why they use the words "scum," "trash," "garbage," or "baby" as insults, which are because they're insults that aren't remotely "discriminatory."

The internet gives everyone a pedestal upon which everybody who has internet access, could possibly see, so of course there are going to be people who use language that make you uncomfortable. There are no true safe spaces out there, and the internet is about as far as you can get from one. Using slurs in real life and using slurs on the internet are two completely different situations that need to be treated differently.

While I'm on this tangent, I might as well state that I don't mind people doing all of this, tumblr buzzword lingo and all, telling me how my language is "ableist," or "offensive," or what have you, if the person takes offense to it on a personal level, because they're disabled, or what have you. That's completely fine, and I'll certainly tailor my language for them, because they find it uncomfortable on a personal level, and it's easy to do this for people on a case-by-case basis. Doing this on the internet is going to restrict you from using a lot of different words or phrasing. That's why I don't bother most of the time with my general speaking patterns.

 

[Ice Car]

Well, that fucked up somehow.

Gimme a sec.

Yeah, sometimes that double posting thing happens if you click post too many times iirc, and you can't delete posts either, for some reason. I usually just blank out and apologize for accidentally double posting as that's all I can really do.

 

[soh45400]

Oh, that one? I knew someone would eventually unironically call me out on that one.

I use the word to describe people who are dumb. That's it. No underlying discriminator behavior or feelings towards people who are mentally ill. I've been friends with a lot of people are are mentally ill and they're just fine.

Please just cut the crap with this "ableist" bullshit. If I'm not calling someone who's mentally ill a "retard" then why does it matter? This is coming from someone with numerous mental disabilities by the way.

Using oppressive language against people who aren't being oppressed by it doesn't magically strip the word of its meaning or power. I'll cut the ableist bullshit when people stop being ableist, deal with it.
Want to call your friend a ******? Homophobic.
Want to call your friend a *****? Sexist.
Want to call your friend a ******? Racist.
Want to call your friend a retard? Ableist.

Oppressive words are oppressive not matter how you use them.

Ok you are being oppressive by not being a poor, hungry, disabled, orphaned, child from some war-torn country.CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE.
You have an internet connection and a computer. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE
You can speak English. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE
You live in developed country. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE
you live in the 21st century. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE
You can afford games. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE
You actually have enough free time to go to this forum and pointlessly argue with complete strangers. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE

Why haven't you donated your computer and console? why are spending money on a internet connection instead of donating? why haven't you donated your house to a homeless person? why aren't you working at a soup kitchen neighborhood watch or or women's shelter or something for free right now instead of arguing?

You know why? Because its not your job or your concern. All you can do is do your job properly with utmost ethics, give to charity a portion of your income, vote responsibly or even participate in actual politics if you can afford it, if you see actual discrimination raise your voice against it when you know the complete actual context but to the concerned authorities instead of shouting at random people like a and if nothing happens then go listen to the Borderlands 2 intro.
No matter what happens, please try not to shout at random people they are entitled to be as offended as you.


OFF TOPIC: I am not white and am from what you would call a third world country which happens to be at the forefront of the war on terror and there are bomb blasts in my own city, my country has one of the most corrupt governments in the world and my university is considered to be in one of the more dangerous places in the city so do check your privilege.

 

[barbzilla]

I scored a 28, though I will admit that a couple of questions could be interpreted in different ways. So, that score could swing between 25 and 35. Strange thing is, I'm white, male, and straight. However I grew up (and currently am) broke (like counting pennies for gas to make it through the work week broke). I think the majority of the low score it gave me stemmed from 3 things: A: I was homeless at one point (I got off my ass begged, borrowed, and stole until I had a decent enough outfit to apply for a fair paying job), B: I had a number of gay friends in high school, which led everyone to think I was gay (and if it wasn't for my sexual interest in women, I probably would be given how I act), and C: I have a strange religion (It is a combination of the BS that was taught to me as a child and applied through scientific knowledge to make sense of what a savage mind may think of a strange occurrence, combined with the fact that I believe the earth has quite a bit of knowledge to offer us herself... so I really have no idea what to call it, but unless the person I'm speaking to has enough of a physics background, what I say sounds like idiocy and therefor worthy of scorn).

The funny thing is, I don't just my life on the material, so i don't feel under privileged. I have had some amazing experiences in my life (both good and bad) and they have taught me so much about life itself. While I obviously don't know the meaning or have any form of enlightenment, I do feel a sense of joy just coexisting.

 

[Ice Car]

I do, since i am one. But nice try, you still keep spouting assumptions about people you don't know. And then label them all as being assholes to other people just for the sake of it.
From what i could read you're either just a marvellous troll or a very hateful and unpleasant person. And since i perfer not surround my self with such people i'm going to ignore you now.

Just wanted to point out your bullshit to all the others.

I'm a bitter radical who's sick of appeasing morally superior liberals and bigoted conservatives. I try to be nice to people, but when you people refuse to listen or only listen when it's convenient, I stop caring. I don't want to yell at people, empathy and sincerity are two of the most essential things in the world to me, but at a certain point I become simply compelled to.


Okay I'm sick of quoting.

To Ice Car, there's a difference between offensive language and oppressive language. Calling someone a fuckwit is offensive, not oppressive. Calling someone a ****** on the other hand, is both. I think a generally safe way to determine whether or not a word use is acceptable is to ask yourself, "Can this word be used to oppress me?" If the answer is no, pick a different one, the words retard and ****** have perfectly acceptable substitutes that are offensive but not oppressive. Also, ableism and privilege are not tumblr's creations, they're legitimate ideas from sociology.

So... What you want us to do, is tailor our language such that nobody can be offensive, despite the fact that nobody would be offended in the conversation to begin with? Okay then.

 

[Ice Car]

So... What you want us to do, is tailor our language such that nobody can be offensive, despite the fact that nobody would be offended in the conversation to begin with? Okay then.

What? I want people to stop using oppressive language, that's it. The reason you shouldn't use oppressive language is that oppression goes against all basic human decency.

But using oppressive language to oppress is what fucking makes it oppressive! That's the basis of your entire argument, that it's oppressive or offensive, and I've been telling you that I don't use it with people who clearly wouldn't, or tell me it wouldn't, offend them!

 

[Lucifus]

I think all this "privileged quotent" is absurd because the very idea of its use is to put people into some "Victimhood olypmics" where the most suffered person gets to automatically win any argument because of skin color or particular gender. Because "checking" your privilege means never disagreeing with someone who's a bigger victim

I'm a liberal progressive and I see nonsense like this all the time, and my perspectives help me see through a lot of bullshit.

I do like the fact I can leverage mine to prove points because my sexuality which caused self-hate and depression in a strict religious school, health issues from cancer, living below the poverty line, and other things which make me less privileged all mean I can never be told to "check it" when in an argument because someone prejudicially sees a white a guy and assumes I've never had any problems compared to them, making their automatic "you're wrong, I'm right" trump card worthless.

It's very satisfying in that case, because they can't hide behind a word so easily.

Oh and I scored under 30, and the questions are obviously skewed to make "certain people" look bad.

Agreed 100%. I used to live in an environment where the victimhood olympics took place every day between a group of people. Didn't matter if it was house work, bills, claiming everyone was victimising them or using it as a weapon in a relationship. It was a toxic environment to live in day in and day out. Ive had a lot of problems over the years, been through some horribly messed up stuff but I cant use it as an excuse to not get on with life, or make people feel bad for not going through the same things as myself. Learning to circumnavigate your issues is just part of life.

 

[generals3]

To Ice Car, there's a difference between offensive language and oppressive language. Calling someone a fuckwit is offensive, not oppressive. Calling someone a ****** on the other hand, is both. I think a generally safe way to determine whether or not a word use is acceptable is to ask yourself, "Can this word be used to oppress me?" If the answer is no, pick a different one, the words retard and ****** have perfectly acceptable substitutes that are offensive but not oppressive. Also, ableism and privilege are not tumblr's creations, they're legitimate ideas from sociology.

If anyone ever gets oppressed by a word than I think there are bigger issues than the words themselves... Never have words oppressed anyone. It were actions; removing rights, killing, torture, segregation, etc. Words don't do that. Someone calling a person a ****** won't suddenly make said person (or gays) somehow lose rights.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think the test is bullshit. Most of the people here are scoring 50/100 or lower, but I sincerely doubt most people in this website are underprivileged by any standard.